[Dota 2] TI3. Look who's comin for dinner!
Skab
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cSFPIwMEq4What is this Dota you speak of?
Defense of the Ancents was originally created in Warcraft 3 by the mapmaker Eul, and was based off of the Starcraft custom game Aeon of Strife. When WC3: The Frozen Throne was released Eul stopped updating the map, which then caused a flood of different varients to appear across battle.net. Among them was DotA Allstars, which was created by Guinsoo, which became main version that we have today. During Guinsoos time, Pendragon came along and made dota-allstars.com in reponse to the need for a main dedicated website for the growing community. With version 6.01, Guinsoo passed authorship off to Icefrog, who started adding new heroes, items, mechanics and fixes, and still runs the game to this day.
Guinsoo and Pendragon would later go on to work at Riot and help create League of Legends, while Icefrog and Eul would go on to work at Valve and are now working on Dota 2.
Dota 2 is the sequel to that popular Warcraft 3 custom game that has since spawned an entire genre with the likes of League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth. If you have played either of those games then you have a basic idea of how things work.
Gameplay remains true to the original Dota, but takes advantage of everything the source engine and Steam have to offer. Besides better graphics, this means things like reconnecting, being able to spectate any match currently in progress even while waiting in que for matchmaking, and no longer having this happen to you
New to the game and want to learn? The following links will get you started. Dota has a massive learning curve, so you wont learn everything here, but it should be enough to get you on your feet.
(Credit for this list actually goes to Gully State over on Gaf.)
First
First Watch 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akUNmFAzS98
Map Guide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9QaEuQHSHk
Then read http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akUNmFAzS98Map Guide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9QaEuQHSHkThen read http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
Second (Warning, these are long.)
How to spend starting gold 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k6XM4MlYts&feature=relmfu
Laning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54g5ej4NAek
Item Summary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9-qHJGIUvU
Warding for map vision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgNHEEUmQYI&list=FLj7gHItNuttevJnGS6YSQuQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k6XM4MlYts&feature=relmfuLaning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54g5ej4NAekItem Summary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9-qHJGIUvUWarding for map vision
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgNHEEUmQYI&list=FLj7gHItNuttevJnGS6YSQuQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video"Hey, I'm freaking amazing at LoL so I should be good at this too, right?"
Not exactly. While at their core they are similar, there are some some key differences that make the meta/feel/pace different. Some of these include things like the way carry heroes work, denying, gold loss on death, towers behaving differently, runes, a larger map, a str/agi/int based stat system, more active/useable items, and more.
Heroes & Items
There are currently 108 heroes in Dota, and while all of them will be coming over to Dota 2, only about 3/4s of the hero pool is available in the current beta build. Currently we get about one new heroes a week, with Valve sometimes surprising us with either more or none at all.
Current hero pool: http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Heroes
Items: http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Items
Curious what heroes are on their way? http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Unreleased_Content
Other Useful Links
http://blog.dota2.com
http://www.joindota.com/en/start
Announcement art (also in the valve store as posters)
(This OP is a work in progress, more info will be added as more people are able to get their hands on the game.)
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I'm pretty happy that both Fnatic and Liquid did as well as they did. They both made it in the money and beat some of the best Chinese teams out there.
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
Those hooks were ridiculous. I'm suprised that's something that is A legal and B even possible to do.
Watching this is my first real foray into anything Dota 2 and even though I don't understand half onf what's being said it's been pretty fun to watch amd has me interested in maybe tring the game out at some point.
Na'vi vs Alliance is gonna be awesome.
They are possible/allowed because they are ridiculously hard to time. It took a pair like Puppey and Dendi, who are in tune with each other on a ridiculous level, to pull it off. Even they wiffed more than they landed. You're not going to see some crazy meta shift to fountain hooking. This was Na'vi being Na'vi and tweaking with an obscure game mechanic to surprise and confuse an opponent.
Erik Johnson himself was made aware that this interaction existed back in 2011 on the dev forums and explicitly said that Valve chose to leave it in "because it's hilarious". So working as intended 100%. Maybe it'll get banned in the future for being too strong, but it'll take more than one pro match for Icefrog to change it. Song + Vacuum only got nerfed because it was such a massively dominant strategy for the entire TI2.
I've also heard that you actually can fountain hook with Wisp in WC3 DotA? Can't confirm that though.
In reference to what Jutranjo said in the last thread, 90 minute games where nothing is going on are shit. I am enjoying the tournament immensely, but I do not see why I should be expected to not complain about terrible games. There's no point in insisting that people should have enjoyed that game.
/e: you can fountain hook with wisp in wc3 dota. the mechanics are different, obv. hook drags to location on cast, so you sit in fountain with wisp + pudge. you time hook to go off as relocate does. hook will be drawn based off of pudge's new position but will drag back to his position in the fountain.
To say it was risky dumbfounds me though, in that game it was almost completely risk free. It couldn't backfire in any meaningful way simply because NaVi was losing anyway, any fight they took with or without Pudge there they would have lost.
A Google search unearths this:
dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=2989
Valve has been aware of the interaction for almost a year and a half.
But one of the lead developers hasn't said that any of those are "too hilarious to fix".
Fountain hooking isn't a bug, it's a feature, and I don't say that sarcastically.
The swedish tv-channel TV6 just started their online coverage of TI3 with a screen saying "No input signal" and constant digital beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
So thats a success :P
/e: o also just because a dev said whatever doesn't mean they won't change it
If the devs are aware of the bug and decide it should not be fixed, it becomes a feature. Most great competitive games have core features which were initially bugs or behavior otherwise unintended by the devs.
Of course the devs may change it, but if fountain hooking is changed it will be because it was an overpowered strategy, not because it was an unintended bug.
Fountain hooking is no longer an unintended bug, and classifying it as so when it has the approval of the devs is a bit silly.
I also feel obliged to point out that it's perfectly possible to pick heroes who can mitigate fountain hooking or escape from being pulled to the fountain with some farm. Fountain hooks are not without counter-play.
Mabe legal was the wrong word since it is possible to do and they were not glitching/cheating and they did say on the stream that it was going to be allowed. I completely understand the risk/reward and the skill it took to pull of the ones that they did it and it just seemed kinda ehhh unfair I guess to the other team .
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I would like to point out that skiing in Tribes was originally a massive exploit/bug that evolved into a feature and was actually designed to be a feature of Tribes: Ascend.
Also comboing and cancelling in fighting games, as well as wavedashing in Melee.
Fountain hooking might be deemed too OP to be allowable and nerfed, but it won't be removed for being a bug.
It was pretty fucking risky, not really due to pudge not farming, but the team being, at best, in a 4v5 situation. Mostly it was only pudge and chen or with windrunner as well. Chen died often because the hook didn't land. Even when it did land chen was dead meat if he was alone.
Though the Aegis gyro took the fucking cake!
As did rocket jumping, strafe jumping, creep pulling, denying, tinker boots of travel wasn't intentional, bottle crowing, TINY's combo, etc. etc.
Anticipating this being the defence for half the obvious bugs and inconsistencies Valve can't be bothered to deal with.
I guess when a team wins an International match with broken Luna glaive bounces, or loses because of broken WD ult bounces, Valve will finally admit that those exist.
Fountain hooking with Pudge is a trade-off anyway, since they removed the far more practical force staff hook extensions that he has in dota 1.
And, really, if they're going to keep allowing skills to push people into unpathable terrain then they should bring back dota 1 terrain glitching.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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Believe me, I hate Valve's laxity when it comes to bugfixing as much as the next guy, but if they specifically said that they want fountain hooking in the game you can't call it an unintended bug any longer. Valve did not try to cover fountain hooking up; they specifically acknowledged that it existed and, more importantly, that they liked it over a year and a half ago.
Maybe it's an OP strategy, maybe it's a dumb mechanical interaction, but it can't be considered a bug at this point.
e: DotA2 does have a fair amount of mechanical differences from DotA1, but as long as they don't actually break the hero/game I'm not too perturbed. I tend to view them as simply part of the evolution of the game.
Pushing into unpathable terrain definitely should be fixed though.
It really, really, wasn't risky though.
NaVi was mobile enough to never fear getting stuck in a 4v5 they didn't want, at least not any fight short enough that dendi couldn't get back in time for the next cooldown on hook. They could safely let Dendi try a fountain hook and if it didn't work fall back, heck most of the time the NaVi cores wasn't even in the same part of the map. Sure Chen died a few times but that is a low low price for the amount of space they bought for xboct. About the only really risky one was the one that caught the aegis gyro but if that hadn't hit they would have lost the fight anyway and as it was they instead instagibbed a bkb + butterfly + aegis carry with 2 normal spells.
Like seriously, taking highground against that is next to impossible. Even if you had slightly less stupid positioning from the other team.
What is broken about them?
The problem is that Valve has had an forum open since early beta for discussing gameplay changes and inconsistencies between dota 1 and dota 2, yet have failed to actual rule (or even comment) on 95% of the topics.
I used to actually look for, find, and report (or at least make sure they'd been reported) bugs and inconsistencies. I kept an install of wc3 on my hdd. But Valve does nothing and doesn't even respond, so now it looks like most players don't, either. What's even more dubious is that they backdoor fix stuff without ever telling anyone, like the Dire fountain dead spot that I reported a long while back. It's nice that they fixed that, but since they never acknowledged my bug report, or even brought up the fix in patch notes, it's hard to work up motivation to keep throwing stuff at the wall.
(Really, I'd be better off just emailing stuff directly to Icefrog. At least he's had the grace to respond to things in the past.)
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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Glaives bounce much further between buildings in the base. They did not in DotA1. Luna's not exactly a problem hero, so I don't really see it as an issue.
Watching this pre-game coverage feels like an actual sporting event.
I always look forward to the analyst desk. They do a great job of entertaining viewers, doubly so now that they have a competent interviewer.
Oh, that's probably actually not a bug then, they've fixed/changed a lot of weird hit detection stuff going from WC3 DotA to DotA 2.
So much great pick variety this tournament! I really wish Fnatic had gone with the Meepo.
It's not actually the glaives that are broken, but that the base layout in dota 2 is completely different from the base layout in dota 1. The buildings are spaced differently (generally closer together), and there are actually less building types--in dota 2 there are basically towers, barracks, and then the equivalent of moon wells, which are just there to be free gold and block creep aggro, while in dota 1 there are towers, barracks, moon wells, and then a couple other buildings like hunter's halls. Not only are the moon wells in dota 2 in a different layout, but they're all worth 100 gold, while in dota 1 moon wells are 100 gold, but the other buildings are worth more, with hunter's halls being around 250 gold. Not only that, but the bigger buildings also have more hp and armour.
But it's a trade-off again for Luna. In dota 1 a glaive can bounce back and forth between 2 units, making Luna even more dangerous against 2 opponents than 3 or 4, while in dota 2 they can only bounce to each unit once, making her better at team fights, but worse in skirmishes. The same thing goes for WD ult, which can bounce between the same units in dota 1, but not in dota 2--and that's still a kind of trade-off since he needs lvl 3 ult and aghs to get all 5 bounces in dota 1, but will automatically get 5 bounces in dota 2 even if it's a lvl 1 ult (which I actually expect to be fixed). The problem for WD is that if anything interrupts his ult in dota 2 then it instantly cancels all ward damage. Even projectiles that have already been fired will stop doing damage, which obviously doesn't happen in dota 1. That's a pretty huge nerf for a hero that is going to be the main target for all disables in any teamfight.
My favourite thing from the dev forum is that many people think that Valve hasn't actually coded an hp removal damage type, but codes each of those skills individually, which is why every time they add a new skill that interacts with hp removal it's buggy as hell.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
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who cares TIMBERSAW PICK