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The Aging Gamer

Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
edited April 2007 in Games and Technology
I was thinking the other day as I read my umpteenth article about a Wii being installed in an old folks' home that it's great that Nintendo was expanding the gamer base. I then stepped back and realized that I am what would now be considered a middle aged gamer. I have a child, I have a full time job, I have a wife, and I have a home to take care of. And, surprise suprise, I have all Nintendo consoles now.

It wasn't a choice based on having a family, it wasn't based on price, it wasn't even based on my love of Nintendo characters. It was based on a large amount of games that are easy to pick up and play a round and then put down - something that Sony and Microsoft really don't pay attention to. Even on the portable PSP, many games have load times and are as involved as the big console titles, something that I just don't seem to have time for.

It seems like in their quest to broaden the horizons of gaming, Nintendo is actually also making it possible for many of us to remain gamers despite the newfound responsibilities life throws at us. I'm happy they are doing it, don't get me wrong, but as a former "hardcore" gamer it does sadden me that I can look at the pricier consoles and only see 2 or 3 games between them that even remotely interest me (Little Big World and Viva Pinata for example).

I'm starting to think that maybe the general gamer getting older could be the deciding factor in the next gen console battle. While Sony and Microsoft seem to think older gamers means they should put more blood and controversial stuff in games, it seems like many older gamers simply want a quick diversion from life, something fun, brainless and somewhat brief. Are they missing the boat?

If this was too long, here's the summary...

I'm old but still want to game, however Nintendo seems to be the only company catering to my gaming time/tastes. Could this be what helps them increase marketshare this round of consoles?

Lindsay Lohan on
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    SnowconeSnowcone Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm a middle aged gamer too. At 26 I have a house, a family with a 3 yr old and a baby due next month, and real life to worry about. I lack a Wii and PS3 at the present time, but I envy everyone with one. My son plays the 360 just fine, but he plays 1 or 2 games as that is all he is allowed to play due to difficulty or age requirements.

    I find myself glossing over much of my library when I am alone due to the massive time investments required to stay in the games. The Wii games lack these investments and really are pick up and play type of games. I miss that and for that reason alone I will recommend the Wii to anyone and everyone I can.

    Herby, you aren't alone. Hardcore is still the target for MS and Sony, but Nintendo will stay on top as it goes after everyone else, the other 95% of the market.

    Snowcone on
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    Battman23Battman23 Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I see your point and I'm getting there. Although I'm only 23 and am about to graduate from college, I too, have a wife and am able to spend less time gaming. I would probably sell my 360 if Guitar Hero 2 wasn't going to rock so hard on it.

    Battman23 on
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    apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2007
    Snowcone wrote: »
    I'm a middle aged gamer too.

    Middle age starts at 35, and thats probably too early. You're a young adult.

    I'm 30. Don't make me older than I need to be.

    apotheos on


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    EdcrabEdcrab Actually a hack Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    It's interesting you say this. I'm in my 20s (and until recently) I was tied to a dull office job, and I considered myself a typical gamer- playing all the big titles and being quite content with RPGs and violent FPSs and all that.

    My dad, however, only plays games as an aside (he was into decent racing and pinball games for a while). As a senior lecturer on mental health his argument was that he wanted brainless diversions with no ties, which means that sprawling detailed epics put him off but pick-up-and-play arcade-style titles strongly appeal to him.

    But I'd argue that's a question of taste (and the fact his job makes his brain melt), not his age. I'd like to think that at 50 I'd still, say, enjoy the likes of Planescape: Torment or the next Half-Life- so developers/manufacturers shouldn't be catering to age-based demographics so much as taste-based demographics. I still find times for games despite several other hobbies and a full time job, for example: and even adding family issues wouldn't eliminate "hardcore" gaming completely.

    It's not so much that they're trying to alienate older games, it's just that they can't cater to everyone: as my dad put it, it'd be like marketting novellas at people who don't have time to read.

    If the whole "console war" is decided by who can produce the most quick-play titles, I'll cry, but I doubt people would complain if they're still produced plentifully... just as long as they don't kill off "prestige" titles.

    Edcrab on
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    TingleTingle __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    apotheos wrote: »
    Snowcone wrote: »
    I'm a middle aged gamer too.

    Middle age starts at 35, and thats probably too early. You're a young adult.

    I'm 30. Don't make me older than I need to be.
    Don't worry grandpa, you're only as old as you feel.

    Anyway, I'd lime the entire OP but that seems like overdoing it a bit. Suffice it to say that I agree 100%.

    Tingle on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm 20, don't have time requirements, but gaming just isn't enough of my life anymore to invest the time necessary for a lot of these games. I play at most a few hours a week (unless something really grabs me).

    I'd rather these few hours be spread out, enjoying VC games (alternatively I'm sure I'd like XBLA) and things like Wii Sports, than to spend them doing 1/20th of a very long drawn out game.

    The sad (monetarily anyway) thing is I still buy a lot of the longer games in hopes that when I sit with them for a little they will grab me and suck me in, allowing me to complete them in a week, but this so rarely happens that I'd do better to save my money (at least I mostly buy used off ebay, waiting is worth it).

    Between my DS and Wii I have enough games that when I want to just sit for 10 minutes and distract myself, there are plenty of options. Frequently that 10 minutes turns into an hour. RARELY does it turn into more... so these games are perfect for me (currently Wii Sports and Rub Rabbits)

    Variable on
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    Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Funny you should mention this. I know a lot of middle aged to elderly gamers, the latter as in 60+.

    And they prefer PC RPGs with some strategy gamers tossed in.

    It's stuff that's not pick up and play, but stuff that typically allows them to save often and leave it and stuff that doesn't require fast reflexes.

    However, I should point out that this crowd was into PC gaming during the 80s when RPGs were king. Those of us in our mid 20s and 30s could wind up latching onto an entirely different experience when we hit that age based on what's around now and a few years before.

    Steel Angel on
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    EdcrabEdcrab Actually a hack Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Variable wrote: »
    The sad (monetarily anyway) thing is I still buy a lot of the longer games in hopes that when I sit with them for a little they will grab me and suck me in, allowing me to complete them in a week, but this so rarely happens that I'd do better to save my money (at least I mostly buy used off ebay, waiting is worth it).

    Yeah, I have the habit of picking up games like Oblivion when I'm just starting a new contract. I didn't play the damn thing for nearly two weeks, but I eventually found time to finish the story missions.

    Come to think of it, I find a whole new love for my SNK beat-'em-ups during contracted months. I don't need to worry about save points or clashing objectives or whatever when Yamazaki is kicking grit into some poor bugger's eyes and stomping on his crotch...

    Edcrab on
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    Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I guess I meant that as a gamer I was pretty much middle aged - as I'm past the high school/college phase of 5 hour marathon gaming but not to the point of "oh how cute, Grandpa is bowling on the Wii" :) In real life I don't consider myself middle aged at all.

    And I completely know what you mean Variable - before I sold my PS2 and went solely Nintendo, I had the Grand Theft Auto games, DMC series, and even thought I'd have time to get really good with a character in Virtua Fighter. Now I enjoy a 10 minute room clearing in Elebits. While I hated losing Guitar Hero and Katamari, it sounds like I won't lose them for long...

    Lindsay Lohan on
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    LondonBridgeLondonBridge __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    apotheos wrote: »
    Snowcone wrote: »
    I'm a middle aged gamer too.

    Middle age starts at 35, and thats probably too early. You're a young adult.

    I'm 30. Don't make me older than I need to be.

    Heh, now you made me feel old. I'm 33 going on 34. I find I'm gaming less and playing the same old RTS every night (SW: FOC). I'm just waiting till Crysis comes out before I splurge on a new PC. I may get a 360 once they release Mass Effect or Halo 3.

    LondonBridge on
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    DoronronDoronron Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    My tastes tend to run towards long Group based CRPGs and epic TBS strategy games. My time really only allows for things like watching RTS replays, an hour or so of a hacknslash RPG, or the occasional FPS if I can beat it in a few weekends. I am making time for Civ4. Not sure if I'll get far enough into Stalker to get serious with it or really start Jade Empire. Not sure if I'll find the time to play Hellgate: London. I will buy the Civ4 expansion pack, though.

    I'll be pissed if I buy Spore and never have time to play it.

    Doronron on
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    PbPb Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm 25, and while I don't have less time than I used to, I find it hard to sit down and invest a lot of time in games. Only a few games really seem to completely hold my attention, and where in the PSone days I'd complete every game I had multiple times, it's rare nowadays that I complete even half of my games. I don't know if it's ennui from decades of gaming or what, but it's hard to keep up interest in games.

    That said, I don't really see how Nintendo is catering to older gamers more than any other company.

    Pb on
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    EdcrabEdcrab Actually a hack Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I think the Wii (and Nintendo overall) is easily tapping a far bigger demographic if their marketing is anything to go by. Media response definitely seems to be lingering over how much more "accessible" the Wiimote or DS is compared to rival approaches.

    There's a Nintendo DS ad campaign in the UK which alternates between various age groups playing a range of titles on the system... I don't recall seeing these many game adverts since the 90s. 'Tis kinda cool, especially when I think that gaming is becoming more and more accepted as a hobby...

    Edcrab on
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    Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I remember a commercial for the Game Boy Pocket where old geezers and teens with mohawks were brought together by their love of Super Mario Land and Tetris.

    Target Practice on
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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Herby wrote: »

    While Sony and Microsoft seem to think older gamers means they should put more blood and controversial stuff in games, it seems like many older gamers simply want a quick diversion from life, something fun, brainless and somewhat brief.

    DING DING DING!

    Aridhol on
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    TingleTingle __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.

    Tingle on
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    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.

    That's because most of have the intronets at work...>_>

    Dragkonias on
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    xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm 22 and I feel like a middle aged gamer. I recently married, and I am in the military probably going on deployment within the year. I am in the same situation as many of you that I tend to buy my games based on length, not the long end, but the short side. I prefer shorter games because they don't take up too much time and I still get the satisfaction of playing a fun game.

    That is, when I have time to play games at all. Wives take up a good bit of time :winky:

    xWonderboyx on
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    bruinbruin Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.
    I probably do. I don't just play video games anymore, I follow the industry. Kind of like it was a sport.

    bruin on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    bruin wrote: »
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.
    I probably do. I don't just play video games anymore, I follow the industry. Kind of like it was a sport.

    it's more about the culture for me now, too. weird.

    actually it's awesome. it's like meta gaming.

    Variable on
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    TingleTingle __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.

    That's because most of have the intronets at work...>_>
    I have internet at work but most of the time Im actually working, so... :P

    I mean in what would normally could be gaming time as well. I mean I could be playing my DS or Wii right now but instead I'm reading and posting here, reading reviews and news of new and upcming games, etc. Don't really know why but as long as you're having fun I guess it doesn't really matter.

    Tingle on
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    xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.

    Also, this is the sad truth.

    xWonderboyx on
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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.

    Also, this is the sad truth.
    Do you guys have some sort of newsletter I need to subscribe to

    Paladin on
    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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    LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Herby wrote: »

    While Sony and Microsoft seem to think older gamers means they should put more blood and controversial stuff in games, it seems like many older gamers simply want a quick diversion from life, something fun, brainless and somewhat brief.

    DING DING DING!

    Eh. I'm not so sure. Right now, funnily enough I can hear my dad (an extremely busy man) spending a bt of time playing through a small section of RE4. You can play through these 'epic' games in very small chunks just as well as spending it all playing other 'quick diversion' games. I really don't seeing this aging population of gamers having any significant effect upon the demographics of games produced.

    Leitner on
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    DoronronDoronron Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    If I can figure out a way to run a team of squaddies through an alien filled farm house in between reports, meetings, and impromptu get togethers with my boss and his boss, I'll do it.

    Doronron on
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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    You know that in other countries some people don't have corporate lunches, but corporate fragging or RTS sessions?

    that's cool

    Paladin on
    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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    hamburger helperhamburger helper Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Variable wrote: »
    bruin wrote: »
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.
    I probably do. I don't just play video games anymore, I follow the industry. Kind of like it was a sport.

    it's more about the culture for me now, too. weird.

    actually it's awesome. it's like meta gaming.

    Weird. Same here.

    SPOOKY

    hamburger helper on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    SC wrote: »
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Herby wrote: »

    While Sony and Microsoft seem to think older gamers means they should put more blood and controversial stuff in games, it seems like many older gamers simply want a quick diversion from life, something fun, brainless and somewhat brief.

    DING DING DING!

    Eh. I'm not so sure. Right now, funnily enough I can hear my dad (an extremely busy man) spending a bt of time playing through a small section of RE4. You can play through these 'epic' games in very small chunks just as well as spending it all playing other 'quick diversion' games. I really don't seeing this aging population of gamers having any significant effect upon the demographics of games produced.

    this very much depends on the game. I was able to do that with RE4 as well because of the frequency of saves and style of the game.

    Variable on
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    xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    SC wrote: »
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Herby wrote: »

    While Sony and Microsoft seem to think older gamers means they should put more blood and controversial stuff in games, it seems like many older gamers simply want a quick diversion from life, something fun, brainless and somewhat brief.

    DING DING DING!

    Eh. I'm not so sure. Right now, funnily enough I can hear my dad (an extremely busy man) spending a bt of time playing through a small section of RE4. You can play through these 'epic' games in very small chunks just as well as spending it all playing other 'quick diversion' games. I really don't seeing this aging population of gamers having any significant effect upon the demographics of games produced.


    You can play them in small chunks, but the problem that arises is forgetting where to go. I have FFXII, but have only played about 5 hours of it because I forgot what I was doing and just lost interest. However, God of War 2 was a decent length, and I recently finished it, but only because my wife liked to watch me play.

    Either way, too much life, not enough time for games.

    xWonderboyx on
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    Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Variable wrote: »
    SC wrote: »
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Herby wrote: »

    While Sony and Microsoft seem to think older gamers means they should put more blood and controversial stuff in games, it seems like many older gamers simply want a quick diversion from life, something fun, brainless and somewhat brief.

    DING DING DING!

    Eh. I'm not so sure. Right now, funnily enough I can hear my dad (an extremely busy man) spending a bt of time playing through a small section of RE4. You can play through these 'epic' games in very small chunks just as well as spending it all playing other 'quick diversion' games. I really don't seeing this aging population of gamers having any significant effect upon the demographics of games produced.

    this very much depends on the game. I was able to do that with RE4 as well because of the frequency of saves and style of the game.

    Me too - I'm actually just starting to play it and finding that the saves are set up that allow me to play it pretty well. Great game so far.

    Lindsay Lohan on
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    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Tingle wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.

    That's because most of have the intronets at work...>_>
    I have internet at work but most of the time Im actually working, so... :P

    I mean in what would normally could be gaming time as well. I mean I could be playing my DS or Wii right now but instead I'm reading and posting here, reading reviews and news of new and upcming games, etc. Don't really know why but as long as you're having fun I guess it doesn't really matter.

    I know...was just saying that probably has something to do with it. But really I guess that's with everything. I have school and work, not to mention when I do have something social to do every now and then, and usually when I do get a chance to play I'm too tired too. Actually unless it's a title that gets my interest I usually have a lot more fun watching my family play them.

    Though as for the comment about 360 and PS3...I'd go against what everyone else says and say it's pretty much the opposite for me. I pretty much play one game all the way through over the course of a few months(mostly do to money restrictions...in that I have none). So I want something that I'll know will last me a long time. Though, I also have a lot of games that are multiplayer/online because I have a lot of fun playing with my friends and brothers too. So, dunno...guess everyone just has different tastes.

    Dragkonias on
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    DoronronDoronron Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Paladin wrote: »
    You know that in other countries some people don't have corporate lunches, but corporate fragging or RTS sessions?

    that's cool

    My company used to. We did Zombie Panic one Friday a few weeks after I was hired. Kind of fun to hear the VP of Accounting groaning "BRAAAAIIIINS".

    Doronron on
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    irnirn Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.

    QFT

    I sit at work with nothing to do and read heavily on what I'm missing out. It's saddistic. My DS keeps me company when everyone leaves and I can close my office door. Presently FF3.

    I'm 25, work a salary job (40+ hours a week), go to school for my masters, married and baby due in May. I own every last gen/current console minus the PS3 at the moment. I wish I had more time to do more, honestly and unfortunately find myself taking care of my business and zoning out on Gears of War online multiplayer... until 4-5 AM... to turn around and be up at 8 AM to start my day...

    I remember when I used to be able to burn the midnight oil and could go a few days without sleep... not anymore.

    Getting old sucks (sometimes).

    As far as gaming preference, I have a difficult time enjoying mindless quick games because I want to feel a deeper value in my choice of entertainment. Everyone plays for their own reason.

    irn on
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    TingleTingle __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Paladin wrote: »
    You know that in other countries some people don't have corporate lunches, but corporate fragging or RTS sessions?

    that's cool
    In Japan they have corporate yoga sessions.

    Tingle on
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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Variable wrote: »
    bruin wrote: »
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.
    I probably do. I don't just play video games anymore, I follow the industry. Kind of like it was a sport.

    it's more about the culture for me now, too. weird.

    actually it's awesome. it's like meta gaming.

    Weird. Same here.

    SPOOKY
    Okay, quick question, do any of us here actually play video games

    Paladin on
    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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    LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Paladin wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    bruin wrote: »
    Tingle wrote: »
    The weird thing is that a lot of us probably now spend more time reading about games on websites etc. and chatting about them on forums like these than actually playing them. I have to admit I do too.
    I probably do. I don't just play video games anymore, I follow the industry. Kind of like it was a sport.

    it's more about the culture for me now, too. weird.

    actually it's awesome. it's like meta gaming.

    Weird. Same here.

    SPOOKY
    Okay, quick question, do any of us here actually play video games

    I played madden this one time...

    LewieP on
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    Dodge AspenDodge Aspen Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I realized my gaming life had changed forever when I finished Twilight Princess and thought to myself: That game was awesome, but too long. TOO LONG!? What the hell happend to me?

    I'm 28, married with plans for kids in the next year or two, and have pretty much decided the Wii will be my last console. I will probably still keep on portable gaming a la the DS, but having an hour or more to sit down on the couch and play games seems to be getting rare.

    Dodge Aspen on
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    PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm 23, married, and have a job, but I still find plenty of time to game. I do a lot of work from home these days, but even when I had a more normal job, I still found a lot of time to play games. I've always found that if I really want, I always have time to do the things I want to do. And I usually manage at least two or three hours a day at the least if I feel like playing games that much or else I just spend that time doing something else.

    I'm determined to live life never being "too busy" for the things I love doing. It's worked out so far.

    Pancake on
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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I no longer put video games in a separate category from card games and board games. They're all really fun and you can have a great time with friends.

    Anyone wanna go bowling

    Paladin on
    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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    LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    One thing I can always appreciate posting here is that there seems to be a much larger group of "older" (25+) gamers. I'm just cresting that (27 in a few months), but being married, going to the gym and working in the city with a 40-minute commute means that yeah, my gaming time has been shaved down since I was a college-age bachelor.

    I remember you considering going all-handheld at one point, Herby, and I have to say that my DS and PSP get eons more playtime than both my Wii and PS2 nowadays. And part of it is the portability factor but the larger part is what you're driving at: games that can be picked up and put down at a moment's notice. I loved FFXII to death, but aside from the weekend I got it, where I managed to steamroll 15 hours into it, I just honestly don't have the time for an epic title anymore, so I traded it.
    EdCrab wrote:
    If the whole "console war" is decided by who can produce the most quick-play titles, I'll cry, but I doubt people would complain if they're still produced plentifully... just as long as they don't kill off "prestige" titles.
    Despite all of the "minigames olol" forum rhetoric you'll find elsewhere, the Wii is positioned beautifully to strike a balance between pick-up-and-play titles and longer, in-depth titles. And even the longer titles seem like they can be accessible in smaller bites. It's this mantra of "something for everyone" that can make the Wii an accessible device to gamers across the spectrum (even people who don't know they're gamers). Games on the 360 and PS3 look completely beautiful ... but I will never have the proper time to let them soak in and fully appreciate them.

    Lunker on
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