Frustrated and sad (job hunt)

Lucid_Seraph

I'm at my wits end here. This is sort of just a frustrated, venting rant.

So about three years ago, I'd just gotten out of undergrad and was realizing rapidly that I couldn't get into my desired field, that being book publishing. I love book publishing of any kind, I'm really interested in editorial work, I'm really GOOD at both copyediting and line editing. I'm sort of a terrible writer in the sense that I'm absolutely awful at coming up with my own ideas and having good follow through on them, and I'm very slow, but editing, copyediting, and getting a team to work together? I'm good at that. Anyway...

Three years ago I realized it was literally impossible to get into that field. I was working as a sales clerk in a museum gift shop and not really enjoying that job very much, plus there were zero opportunities for advancement. So I did something staggeringly dumb and went to graduate school to get a Master of Fine Arts in Nonfiction Writing.

Why did I go for the writing degree? Frankly I don't know, I should have gone for the publishing degree but I had a brain melt moment of WELL MAYBE I WANT TO HONE MY WRITING SKILLS. Huge mistake. I'm now in massive debt (I had no debt from undergrad and managed to screw that up, well done self!). Even so, I worked VERY hard, managed to land a tiny part time editorial job at a small press so I have For Real Professional Experience, and wrote a killer thesis that I'm very proud of.

Well okay. I graduated and landed a six month paid internship at a VERY prestigious magazine that I won't name. I learned while there that I am NOT cut out for journalism AT ALL. I'm shy, I hate interviews, and I don't stand up well to rudeness and pressure (One of my bosses was basically J. Jonah Jameson in terms of "Talented guy but good lord what a jerk") and essentially I went wow, I want to get out of this field once I get out. Even so, it's a nationally known, highly prestigious magazine and it gave me some killer writing credit.

Fast forward to now. I've been looking for a job for six months and haven't gotten a thing. When I left the city that I'd been doing my internship in, I thought I'd had a job, but when I came back to the opposite coast I discovered, to my horror, that they were a very creepy operation that didn't even change their own lightbulbs and were run out of, I shit you not, a run down shack. I quit on the first day because I was genuinely afraid for my life and sanity just by being in the place, and ended up stranded and homeless before my parents managed to rescue me.

I still don't have a job. Just today I got rejected from a job that I thought I'd had good standing in, a production position with a tabletop game company (Again, I won't name, especially since I'm 99% sure some of their employees frequent this forum). They'd actually flown me out for the interview, and I think I botched it there (I can't say why, again because stating why I botched it would probably out which candidate I am)

I'm just so damn tired. I'm tired of living on unemployment insurance, I'm tired of living at my parents house, I'm tired of being an idiot with two degrees and an internship under my belt who cannot for the life of me land a goddamn job. I don't even know what I'm asking here, because I'm sure that if you guys even send me job listings I'll just get rejected from all of them like I've been. I've applied to over four hundred positions in the last six months, no exaggeration. and I'm just so dead bone tired.

I think I'm in serious need of treatment for major depression as well, but I've got no health insurance, no money, and no prospects. I'm currently trying to land a part-time retail job to keep myself afloat, but I'm so angry at myself because I went to graduate school to get out of that very situation.


I'm going to try to start freelance editing, I guess, but I have no idea what rates I should charge or how to even find work, or how to schedule my day and time. The whole reason I wanted an office job and the reason I don't work as a freelance writer is because I don't work well without a concrete schedule to keep me in line. I just

I dunno

basically I'm frustrated and sad and I hate myself and my choices and I feel like I'm trapped in a dead end. I still desperately want to work in tabletop gaming or in book publishing but there's just no prospects for me at all, and I'm tired of being myself at this point. I'm tired of being an abject failure.


I guess what I'm asking for is more...

well

1. How do I start freelancing properly so I can get off unemployment insurance at some point in my life

2. How do I stop thinking of myself as a failure and how do I get out of this state of endless depression over how badly I've failed in everything I ever wanted to do?

and

3. How the hell does anyone get a job in publishing? I'm not unqualified for an entry level position but 99% of the time I can't even get past the first stage of the application process these days.

Jasconius

I don't think a stable future for you exists in the realm of "freelance" writing/editing/publishing

Especially if you value things like health insurance, and not having to live with your parents

Sorry but it's not hard to find thousands of tales similar to yours about ex-students who made terrible choices and find themselves in creative industries that are jam packed with shit paying jobs and broken dreams

The story is practically zeitgeist at this point

You need to parlay your allegedly prestigious internship into a career. That would be the prudent move. Yes your job will suck, but a lot of peoples entry level jobs suck. That's why they're entry level. If you don't want to do that then you might as well consider changing gears entirely and finding something else that suits you. And to start you need to start looking in places where your competition is not. How many people do you think applied to that tabletop position? How do you like your chances? If you gotta be an editor for a magazine about bass fishing and trailer hitches, then so-f-ing be it. It'll pay the bills and you won't have to walk into every interview knowing 50 more candidates are waiting in the lobby.

When jobs are scarce, you have to become flexible.

A year after I graduated college out of desperation I took a crap programming job at an older womens clothing store. I am not an old woman old women clothes do not interest me. Four years and two jobs later my salary and benefits have more than doubled. Had I gone freelance I'd likely be nowhere.

My two cents.

Lucid_Seraph

See, I already tried that. I've been going for the bullshit entry level garbage at places I'm not interested in, and NOBODY is biting. I've seriously already slid down from "Whee I'll go for a thing I like" to "No god seriously I don't care if I have to edit NoseHairMonthly just hire me"

Great Scott

If that's true, then you have no choice but to change fields. Preferably one that has a dearth of people. Find something really weird.

One of my acquaintances cannot stop people from trying to hire him. He changes phone numbers twice a year to stop the random calls, and makes obscene amounts of money. His career? Tower crane operator.

The Ender

1. How do I start freelancing properly so I can get off unemployment insurance at some point in my life

2. How do I stop thinking of myself as a failure and how do I get out of this state of endless depression over how badly I've failed in everything I ever wanted to do?

and

3. How the hell does anyone get a job in publishing? I'm not unqualified for an entry level position but 99% of the time I can't even get past the first stage of the application process these days.

1) Freelancing is literally just a matter of writing and submitting manuscripts. It's entirely dependent on how much you can write & how many magazines (or journals, or whatever you want to submit to) are in your area.

2) Go get therapy. Talk to a doctor or other medical professional; you might need medication.

3) Publishing is a tricky gig to get into; most of the time you have to know somebody with connections. A lot of the time copy-editors start their careers working for a newspaper, to use an example of something you seemed interested in. They don't want your credentials - they want to know if George & Brendon down at the Daily Sunspot think you're good at the job. Do you have a school newspaper you could apply for work at? Those can lead to great connections.

Cold calls will almost never get you anywhere. It's shitty and insular, but that's the way it is.

bsjezz

i was in a pretty similar position to you, after receiving an MA in creative writing; my ultimate decision was to not worry about getting into an industry in dire flux, do what i love to do (writing and editing) as a hobby slash passion project (a digital publication), and work in retail. i was happy with that for three? four? years. then i decided that i knew too much, loved my passion too much, to waste it, and decided to teach. but. baby steps.

my logic for working on a digital magazine was that i knew the dream editorial job wasn't going to come up instantly; it would be many months, or even years, coming. what i needed to do was show that i loved it so much i was doing it anyway - but that i could still occupy myself professionally in the meantime. it's worked pretty nicely as a resume filler. as it happened i sort of grew happy enough with the situation that i stopped really looking for a low-paid industry-version of a job i was doing on my own terms anyway.

don't feel bad about going back to retail. if publishing is what you love, there are huge opportunities to be creative and develop ideas outside of your working life: on the flipside, the big changes going on make it an unreliable place to find a traditional 'career.' if publishing and writing isn't what you really love, and was just the course you happened to go down, it might be time to cut your losses, burn your degrees in a ceremonial fire and move on.

Lucid_Seraph

The Ender wrote: »

[

1) Freelancing is literally just a matter of writing and submitting manuscripts. It's entirely dependent on how much you can write & how many magazines (or journals, or whatever you want to submit to) are in your area.

2) Go get therapy. Talk to a doctor or other medical professional; you might need medication.

3) Publishing is a tricky gig to get into; most of the time you have to know somebody with connections. A lot of the time copy-editors start their careers working for a newspaper, to use an example of something you seemed interested in. They don't want your credentials - they want to know if George & Brendon down at the Daily Sunspot think you're good at the job. Do you have a school newspaper you could apply for work at? Those can lead to great connections.

Cold calls will almost never get you anywhere. It's shitty and insular, but that's the way it is.

I am in pretty fucking dire need of therapy, that's for sure.

I made connections in grad school, but ha ha all those fuckers turned out to be fair weather friends who haven't offered me shit now that I'm out of the brig.

I'd really, REALLY love to get into another industry, but I honest to god do not know how to start or get the training to do so. Like, again, something really weird. Crane operation sounds awesome. So does wind turbine maintinance. I don't know. But I just don't know how to do that without going back to school, which I don't want.

I am having trouble freelancing because I have severe depression and ADHD (from childhood), which is this horrific catch-22 where you're like, "I need to work to give myself purpose, but I am having trouble working because I'm having depression and focus issues"

I am in DIRE need of a therapist, but again, I have NO money, $60,000 in debt, and my unemployment is basically enough to let me make my monthly payments... and that's it

seriously any advice on how to change careers into something else is super welcome

PS: I tried going back to my old retail job... they're not hiring. They probably won't be hiring until next May. So I'm fucked there, and I can't seem to get anywhere else to pay attention to me either.

*e* I'm actually on the verge of being suicidal tbh and I've been trying to at least call the hotlines but I'm scared stiff of being referred to a hospital when I have no money and on top of it all my dad has many of the same mental/emotional issues as me and is, himself, prone to suicidal thoughts, and if I ended up even in the hospital for this he'd probably up and kill himself first...

*e2* and the other issue, of course, is that I realized that I despise writing. It's not a passion, it's a fucking prison for me, and I'm sick of everyone telling me "oh well just if you're a writer do what you love!" fuck you, I HATE writing I HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT. I love copyediting, but coming up with my own ideas, ESPECIALLY for journalistic articles, just makes me want to stab my eyes out. I'm so fucking angry that everyone I know pushed me into this industry and away from mathematics ("math is sooo boring! you write soooo welllllll you should be a writer~") and now I've rotted my brain so much and lost so much time that I can't go back to programming. Nobody wants an old programmer who knows a few fragments of shitty beginner's C++ from high school.

Jurg

That's a rough one. Any time someone's feeling suicidal, the response should be "get some help immediately", but I'll skip telling you that, because of your concerns. Still, just... be careful, okay?

You said you function better with a schedule, right? What is your schedule like now? Do you go to sleep/wake up at a regular time? Do you eat regular meals? And how are you conducting your job search? Are you just sort of randomly applying, or do you have a regular system?

I'm not trying to be condescending, but if you do, in faction, function better with a tight schedule, then you should keep yourself to one. I've heard that helps stave off depression, to an extent. In fact, depression or not, a lot of people recommend turning the process of looking for work into a job. Maybe you can do something along those lines? Like, wake up around 8, shower, get dressed up, get some coffee or whatever, and by 9, start searching for jobs as if that were, in fact, your job. Give yourself a lunch break, get back to searching, and by 5 "clock out" and reward yourself with some games/reading/whatever.

It may seem a little silly, but I think that if I were in your situation the structure would be a lot less horrifying than ALWAYS being "clocked in", and a lot less malaise-producing than always turning to something else to "clock out", whenever you feel able.

Don't worry so much about having fallen "off the track". The track doesn't really exist, unless you're a rich kid with connections. That's kind of outside your control, so no need to worry about it. Plenty of people find themselves in your situation, and while it still sucks to be there, you shouldn't think yourself a failure for being there. As other's have said, that's kind of the norm now.

Wherabouts in Maryland are you, if you don't mind me asking?

Iruka

If you are applying online to things, I would really recommend applying in person. Entry level position jobs that are "Are you a trustworthy, put together person who can show up on time" are gotten largely by a good first impression and lucky timing. How shy are you? Are you shy to the point where you have trouble just talking to people in general?

I can massively relate to feelings of being in massive debt because of school and not where you want to be in life. I would give you advice on how to cope, but everyone is different and I dont know if my methods would really translate well to you. I will say, however, to try not to let your unfortunate circumstances discolor how you see people, like your "fair weather friends" from gradschool. I know its not helpful to tell a depressed person to "think positively" but when I was way worse off, I did everything I could to "Think pragmatically". Its very hard to separate emotions and ideals from reality when you are wrapped up in the shittiest of situations, but doing things like Jurg suggested can really help.

I also had to add a second task, other than the scheduling for job hunting, I also set aside a day where I would go out and talk to people, other than my parents. I didn't have any friends back at home after I graduated, and my social anxiety came back full force afterwords. I would force myself to go out and talk to people, just like small talk with the bar tender at the midrange restaurant for 10 minutes, or whatever it was. It sucked and felt awkward, but I got a lot better at it. Between that and working retail sales, I can just talk to people without really thinking about it, and its a useful skill. I'm not an extroverted person, but I can put of vibes of not being shy and anxious better than I did before.

Karrmer

I'd echo going out and talking to people. You can't keep using "being shy" and socially awkward and things like that as an excuse as if they can't be changed - its not easy, but you can get better.

The people landing the jobs you want and promoting etc are the ones that know how to talk, interview, make themselves look better than they are, they dress well, etc. You might be better at performing the actual job but it won't matter if the person hiring doesn't know that because you're unable to present yourself well enough.

The Ender

*e* I'm actually on the verge of being suicidal tbh and I've been trying to at least call the hotlines but I'm scared stiff of being referred to a hospital when I have no money and on top of it all my dad has many of the same mental/emotional issues as me and is, himself, prone to suicidal thoughts, and if I ended up even in the hospital for this he'd probably up and kill himself first...

*e2* and the other issue, of course, is that I realized that I despise writing. It's not a passion, it's a fucking prison for me, and I'm sick of everyone telling me "oh well just if you're a writer do what you love!" fuck you, I HATE writing I HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT. I love copyediting, but coming up with my own ideas, ESPECIALLY for journalistic articles, just makes me want to stab my eyes out. I'm so fucking angry that everyone I know pushed me into this industry and away from mathematics ("math is sooo boring! you write soooo welllllll you should be a writer~") and now I've rotted my brain so much and lost so much time that I can't go back to programming. Nobody wants an old programmer who knows a few fragments of shitty beginner's C++ from high school.

If you're feeling suicidal, please do call a hotline.

I'm sorry that you were forced into that situation; copy-editing probably isn't the right fit for you if you really hate writing. It's never too late to go and learn new things; if you want to go be a programmer, learn some coding (you don't necessarily have to go to school for it) and by all means, look for some basic programming work. H/A can correct em if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that type of thing is more or less always in demand.

WildEEP

Everyone is all over the "Get Help" thing for your emotional state.....

I'll go the other direction and help out on the physical state.

Where are you in the world? I'll see if any of my network know about anything in print that's open.

It seriously may just be localization - you'd be surprised how many people lament that there is "No jobs" when there is a fuckton of jobs, if they'd commute an hour or relocate.

Syzygy

Great Scott wrote: »

If that's true, then you have no choice but to change fields. Preferably one that has a dearth of people. Find something really weird.

One of my acquaintances cannot stop people from trying to hire him. He changes phone numbers twice a year to stop the random calls, and makes obscene amounts of money. His career? Tower crane operator.

Yeah, but those jobs are the kind you have to know people to get. You don't take a 1 year course in Tower Crane Operation and BAM! You get a job operating a tower crane.

OP, I empathize with your plight. Not so long ago I couldn't even find friggin' retail job. I feel like I'm holding on for dear life for the one I actually managed to find, and have re-prioritized from "Animator/Artist" to "Electrical/Mechanical Engineer". I'm looking at 4-6 years of more school, but at least I get to build lasers and robots, which will probably end up ruling the future.

As for you, I suggest you change fields immediately. The one you're in right now sounds like it's been oversaturated. Maybe look in to declaring bankruptcy if the debt becomes absolutely crushing. Here's hoping things work out for you!

Project Mayhem

If it makes you feel any better:

I graduated with a degree in Audio Production when I was 23 and have worked myself into the IT field. I went from teaching music technology to teaching technology to maintaining technology. Music is still a hobby of mine, but I just found that I preferred the stress of maintaining systems 24/7 (and getting to play with a lot of new tech!) to the stress of networking with other professionals as a job (which is a key requirement in the creative industry). I think maybe you need to do some research into other things you are comfortable with. I'm not sure how into IT you are but I know that a lot of publishing/design companies want IT people who know a bit about how the business works, not just about computers.

Pinfeldorf

Getting a job is 50% knowing the right person and 50% interviewing well. There are going to be people out there with the same qualifications as you applying for the same job(s) that might do better at the interview, even though you're a harder worker with a better work ethic. Consider taking a class or two about interviewing and that kind of thing. I know some states provide them as free workshops (maybe all?).

Also, mental health is closely related to physical health. Consider getting yourself into a nice workout routine. It doesn't have to be a 3-hour a day turbo gym-rat deal. Just spend 45 minutes a day taking care of yourself. Do some walking or jogging; some simple exercises with either free weights or resistance tubing/band. If you want to do more, feel free.

If you're socially awkward, get out there and meet new people. Force yourself to be able to have a conversation about stupid shit with strangers. You will never get less socially awkward if you never work on being social. It might be uncomfortable, but hey, if life were supposed to be comfortable we'd be dolphins!