The best part is there are only 3 companies that do what we do nationally. We have the market cornered in the northeast, and the owner of my company has talked to the owners of the other companies and convinced them not to work with this client. They're pretty much fucked if they ever need anything done.
We do custom SharePoint solutions integrated deeply with ISVs. We also provide custom premade site collection templates based off of specific ISVs you want to pay for.
We just recently built an HTML5 document viewer that runs in a ribbon button in SharePoint. The document viewer also converts files to PDFs and auto-uploads them to SharePoint libraries as well, and allows redactions, etc. that also get saved. That's an example of a project I recently worked on.
What is this bizarre place where they teach both Scheme and Ruby in the same class? Is it a metaprogramming class or something?
Man I don't remember the name of it right now. It wasn't strictly about the two (I think some algorithm class), but those were the two languages used in it.
What is this bizarre place where they teach both Scheme and Ruby in the same class? Is it a metaprogramming class or something?
Man I don't remember the name of it right now. It wasn't strictly about the two (I think some algorithm class), but those were the two languages used in it.
That sounds more like a programming languages class featuring a compare and contrast between different types of languages. I couldn't imagine doing half an algorithms class using Ruby then flipping over to Scheme after the midterm.
I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
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If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
What is this bizarre place where they teach both Scheme and Ruby in the same class? Is it a metaprogramming class or something?
Man I don't remember the name of it right now. It wasn't strictly about the two (I think some algorithm class), but those were the two languages used in it.
That sounds more like a programming languages class featuring a compare and contrast between different types of languages. I couldn't imagine doing half an algorithms class using Ruby then flipping over to Scheme after the midterm.
We're looking to hire some newbie programmers in the near future. I think I convinced the hiring manager to "hire" our candidates as contractors for a day or two to see how they work out. They get paid, we get to see if we if we like them and if they are wasting our time. And nobody has to deal with the painfully uncomfortable whiteboard interview process. I'm a little concerned that it will be too intimidating for people straight out of college, but we think we're going to pair program for it anyways. So it shouldn't be too bad.
Most people get ass-stabbed when they give their employer any leg room on the condition that "if they like me, they'll..."
Put it in writing that you'll offer a position by the end of the 2 days period. Should an offer not be presented, person is no longer contracted.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
+2
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Two days seems odd to me. What are they actually going to be doing two days after they're hired? A month of contract-to-hire (or call it a probationary period) would make more sense.
Yikes, even when I was taking my first jobs I wouldn't pick up a 3 month contract. I couldn't imagine working for two days.
You must not have graduated in 2009. I would've taken pretty much any amount of work for the year I was looking.
I'm just not sure what you can learn about a candidate in two days.
It's pretty much an unsolvable problem, I agree. But I think we will learn way more about how a person is to work with by doing this than by asking them questions about trees and linked lists in front of a white board.
Yikes, even when I was taking my first jobs I wouldn't pick up a 3 month contract. I couldn't imagine working for two days.
You must not have graduated in 2009. I would've taken pretty much any amount of work for the year I was looking.
I'm just not sure what you can learn about a candidate in two days.
It's pretty much an unsolvable problem, I agree. But I think we will learn way more about how a person is to work with by doing this than by asking them questions about trees and linked lists in front of a white board.
Ask for sample code. You'll learn a lot about the candidate.
Even code from their projects in school shows a lot about them.
The time constraint of coding to an interview sucks, and I have absolutely forgotten even the most basic of stuff during them sometimes. Knowing more than 2 languages sometimes muddies their similarities. I've definitely used php code in c++ once.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Yikes, even when I was taking my first jobs I wouldn't pick up a 3 month contract. I couldn't imagine working for two days.
You must not have graduated in 2009. I would've taken pretty much any amount of work for the year I was looking.
I'm just not sure what you can learn about a candidate in two days.
It's pretty much an unsolvable problem, I agree. But I think we will learn way more about how a person is to work with by doing this than by asking them questions about trees and linked lists in front of a white board.
Ask for sample code. You'll learn a lot about the candidate.
A lot of people work on government projects and have NDAs and stuff.
I have no example code I could give anyone, for example. And I can't expect everyone to contribute to open source in their spare time.
Yikes, even when I was taking my first jobs I wouldn't pick up a 3 month contract. I couldn't imagine working for two days.
You must not have graduated in 2009. I would've taken pretty much any amount of work for the year I was looking.
I'm just not sure what you can learn about a candidate in two days.
It's pretty much an unsolvable problem, I agree. But I think we will learn way more about how a person is to work with by doing this than by asking them questions about trees and linked lists in front of a white board.
Ask for sample code. You'll learn a lot about the candidate.
A lot of people work on government projects and have NDAs and stuff.
I have no example code I could give anyone, for example. And I can't expect everyone to contribute to open source in their spare time.
Software engineers shouldn't be sharing company proprietary stuff regardless.
They should be working on stuff in their spare time, however.
Even code from their projects in school shows a lot about them.
The time constraint of coding to an interview sucks, and I have absolutely forgotten even the most basic of stuff during them sometimes. Knowing more than 2 languages sometimes muddies their similarities. I've definitely used php code in c++ once.
No one should ever expect valid code in any real language to be used in a whiteboard interview, even if they're asking questions about a specific language.
mightyjongyoSour CrrmEast Bay, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
Yea, no, I prefer not to spend every waking moment looking for something to develop. I mean, if you do, that's great, but you shouldn't expect everyone to do the same.
I actually prefer offline coding questions and whiteboard interviews. More often than not they're judging my ability to develop algorithms and design software rather than my ability to use the correct keyword and catch the missing semicolons.
1) Wat? I'm not asking people to work 60+ hour weeks.
2) In fact, the article is self-contradicting...
By 2011, the Real Programmer shift was taking hold. That year a discussion on the programming social network StackExchange went nuts, by a guy who asked, "I don't program in my spare time. Does that make me a bad developer?"
The general consensus was that you can be a good developer if you only work during normal working hours, but that the "greatest programmers code during their off-hours as well."
...that's a reasonable thing to say.
That idea is of questionable validity. Stanford students studied how much time a person can really spend programming productively. In what shouldn't be a surprise, they found that working too much reduces productivity. Overworked coders tended to produce less high-quality code when working 60 hour/weeks than refreshed people did when working 40-hour weeks.
So is that! But those are two completely different statements. Programming on your own time means personal improvement. It means "hey, I wonder if X will work", or looking at new languages, or whatever else you need to do to keep your various skills sharp or start working on new ones.
So, yeah. If I ask somebody for a code sample, and they say "I don't program in my spare time", I counter with: "Well, what do you do?" - because that is going to tell me a lot about who they are.
I do carpentry, I play video games, I go out to dinner, I hike, go to the cinema, hang out with my friends, BBQ (smoker now bitches!), spend time with my fiance, study and learn new things
If all I did was programming I'd be boring as fuck.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
So, yeah. If I ask somebody for a code sample, and they say "I don't program in my spare time", I counter with: "Well, what do you do?" - because that is going to tell me a lot about who they are.
I play video games, I design board games, and I watch Netflix with my girlfriend in my spare time.
Engineers and Physicists don't get these questions during interviews. Who the fuck cares why I don't code in my spare time? I have hobbies that do not involve coding, and very often when I get home after 8-10 hours at work, I do not want to look at a code editor.
I mean when I was 19 and had no disposable income and I was in school, sure I programmed.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
0
mightyjongyoSour CrrmEast Bay, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
What I do is anything that helps me relax and not think about work. It usually doesn't involve writing more code, and usually involves spending time with my wife and friends. Honestly if I interviewed someone and they said that all they do is develop code in their spare time, I would think that makes them a not especially well-rounded person.
Engineers and Physicists don't get these questions during interviews. Who the fuck cares why I don't code in my spare time? I have hobbies that do not involve coding, and very often when I get home after 8-10 hours at work, I do not want to look at a code editor.
That's because you can ask Engineers and Physicists questions that have concrete (hah!) answers. But if I was interviewing a civil engineer, you can bet your ass that I'd ask him about the projects he'd overseen and drive out to see them if they were local.
If you ask me about syntax or "gotcha" questions, you're not testing my skill, you're testing my ability to answer interview questions. If you sit me down in front of a workstation and ask me to solve a problem, you're testing my ability to adapt to a new environment. If you ask me what sort of code I write in my spare time, you see what levels of acceptability I hold myself to.
I've got two kids (one of which is an infant) and two dogs, and I still occasionally work on projects in my spare time. I don't work on it 24/7, and it has recently taken a back seat to the novel I'm writing, but both of those things tells employers about who I am. I see software as a tool to solve problems. I actively seek out those problems and program solutions for them.
You design board games. That's awesome, I would dig right the fuck into that, because that's the similar sort of concept->prototype->development->completion lifecycle I want to know about when interviewing a candidate.
(same goes for bowen and carpentry)
That's good info, but it's still not going to tell me as much about your professional abilities as sharing a demo project would.
So, yeah. If I ask somebody for a code sample, and they say "I don't program in my spare time", I counter with: "Well, what do you do?" - because that is going to tell me a lot about who they are.
I play video games, I design board games, and I watch Netflix with my girlfriend in my spare time.
Engineers and Physicists don't get these questions during interviews. Who the fuck cares why I don't code in my spare time? I have hobbies that do not involve coding, and very often when I get home after 8-10 hours at work, I do not want to look at a code editor.
I couldn't agree more. After a full day getting some program to compile on an ancient compiler, or tracking down a static value initialization order issue, the last thing I want to do is code something. I am challenged at work, I learn new things every week. I spend my free time learning new non coding things as my brain is burnt out on coding.
That's good info, but it's still not going to tell me as much about your professional abilities as sharing a demo project would.
Of course, if someone programs in their spare time that's the easiest to assess candidate you'll have. But the point is you can't actually count it against someone who doesn't.
That's good info, but it's still not going to tell me as much about your professional abilities as sharing a demo project would.
Of course, if someone programs in their spare time that's the easiest to assess candidate you'll have. But the point is you can't actually count it against someone who doesn't.
Never said I necessarily would. (Though there are actually things people do in their spare time that I would count against them.)
@jdarksun I think we're mostly in agreement here. I just really dislike the seemingly pervasive attitude in our industry that "if you're not coding 100% of the time, you're not a great programmer." I realize that's not what you mean, but I tend to react violently. PTSD Flashbacks of my previous job search, I guess.
@jdarksun I think we're mostly in agreement here. I just really dislike the seemingly pervasive attitude in our industry that "if you're not coding 100% of the time, you're not a great programmer." I realize that's not what you mean, but I tend to react violently. PTSD Flashbacks of my previous job search, I guess.
Ugh, that's awful dude. I'm sorry to hear that. I don't know what it is with our industry in general/software engineers in particular and the desire to judge people solely based on <polarizing thing>.
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Their users are already sending us requests for changes. Their tears sustain me.
We just recently built an HTML5 document viewer that runs in a ribbon button in SharePoint. The document viewer also converts files to PDFs and auto-uploads them to SharePoint libraries as well, and allows redactions, etc. that also get saved. That's an example of a project I recently worked on.
Man I don't remember the name of it right now. It wasn't strictly about the two (I think some algorithm class), but those were the two languages used in it.
Step number: 1.
Now running into issues with the http page loading, but the https page will not.
That sounds more like a programming languages class featuring a compare and contrast between different types of languages. I couldn't imagine doing half an algorithms class using Ruby then flipping over to Scheme after the midterm.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
For example, Dan Grossman's course on coursera:
https://www.coursera.org/course/proglang
Which is a mirror of his course at UW if you were interested in the material:
http://courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse341/13sp/#lectures
Most people get ass-stabbed when they give their employer any leg room on the condition that "if they like me, they'll..."
Put it in writing that you'll offer a position by the end of the 2 days period. Should an offer not be presented, person is no longer contracted.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
You must not have graduated in 2009. I would've taken pretty much any amount of work for the year I was looking.
I'm just not sure what you can learn about a candidate in two days.
It's pretty much an unsolvable problem, I agree. But I think we will learn way more about how a person is to work with by doing this than by asking them questions about trees and linked lists in front of a white board.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
The time constraint of coding to an interview sucks, and I have absolutely forgotten even the most basic of stuff during them sometimes. Knowing more than 2 languages sometimes muddies their similarities. I've definitely used php code in c++ once.
A lot of people work on government projects and have NDAs and stuff.
I have no example code I could give anyone, for example. And I can't expect everyone to contribute to open source in their spare time.
They should be working on stuff in their spare time, however.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
That is not a fair expectation!
http://www.businessinsider.com/syndromes-drive-coders-crazy-2014-3
No one should ever expect valid code in any real language to be used in a whiteboard interview, even if they're asking questions about a specific language.
I actually prefer offline coding questions and whiteboard interviews. More often than not they're judging my ability to develop algorithms and design software rather than my ability to use the correct keyword and catch the missing semicolons.
I mean I do here and there, but I never complete anything. Not even to get some dumb concept out the door.
2) In fact, the article is self-contradicting... ...that's a reasonable thing to say.
So is that! But those are two completely different statements. Programming on your own time means personal improvement. It means "hey, I wonder if X will work", or looking at new languages, or whatever else you need to do to keep your various skills sharp or start working on new ones.
So, yeah. If I ask somebody for a code sample, and they say "I don't program in my spare time", I counter with: "Well, what do you do?" - because that is going to tell me a lot about who they are.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
If all I did was programming I'd be boring as fuck.
I play video games, I design board games, and I watch Netflix with my girlfriend in my spare time.
Engineers and Physicists don't get these questions during interviews. Who the fuck cares why I don't code in my spare time? I have hobbies that do not involve coding, and very often when I get home after 8-10 hours at work, I do not want to look at a code editor.
If you ask me about syntax or "gotcha" questions, you're not testing my skill, you're testing my ability to answer interview questions. If you sit me down in front of a workstation and ask me to solve a problem, you're testing my ability to adapt to a new environment. If you ask me what sort of code I write in my spare time, you see what levels of acceptability I hold myself to.
I've got two kids (one of which is an infant) and two dogs, and I still occasionally work on projects in my spare time. I don't work on it 24/7, and it has recently taken a back seat to the novel I'm writing, but both of those things tells employers about who I am. I see software as a tool to solve problems. I actively seek out those problems and program solutions for them.
You design board games. That's awesome, I would dig right the fuck into that, because that's the similar sort of concept->prototype->development->completion lifecycle I want to know about when interviewing a candidate.
(same goes for bowen and carpentry)
That's good info, but it's still not going to tell me as much about your professional abilities as sharing a demo project would.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I couldn't agree more. After a full day getting some program to compile on an ancient compiler, or tracking down a static value initialization order issue, the last thing I want to do is code something. I am challenged at work, I learn new things every week. I spend my free time learning new non coding things as my brain is burnt out on coding.
Of course, if someone programs in their spare time that's the easiest to assess candidate you'll have. But the point is you can't actually count it against someone who doesn't.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Ugh, that's awful dude.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists