Just to add to what @Egos said, I'ma do a little breakdown of that incriminating @Sir Fabulous post to indicate the various reasons why it positively reeked of Mafia:
So I'm not going to tell Saber anything because I'm a skeptical old bastard and I don't exactly trust him yet, but please don't vote for him guys.
If he's village, than the mafia needs to kill him soon, and if he's mafia, then I'm fine with him killing other mafia members for now.
See, this right here is right out of the mafia playbook. A village leader has stuck his head up in a way that's going to cause some conversation. What you want to do is cast some doubt on his validity without leaving a trail. You're not going to vote for him, that would be silly. But if you can fan the flames of suspicion in the village so that THEY vote for him? Great! (See also: Kime's "Saber is Not Confirmed" mantra that he kept repeating all through Day 2)
What I'd like to hear from Saber or someone involved is why Saber chose to take out buddha. It's not super unlikely that he just happened to pick one at random, but what went into the decision?
Did anyone in your hit squad argue against this?
Translation: Anybody else in Saber's squad want to speak up? We in the mafia could use a handy list of well-organized, likely-unguarded villagers to move to the top of our Must Kill list.
And I also urge everyone to look at voting records.
Saber's got something going on, and that's well and dandy, but it really is early in the game to spend all day talking about an unconfirmed network.
Let's get some vote analysis going on here as well. We've got a dead mafia member, let's use him (that came out weird).
I can't analyze anything right now, but I'll go over things later tonight and see what I turn up.
Another mafia classic - rally the village to do analysis while not actually doing any yourself, BUT (and this is important) the promise to come back and do some work later.
This has been "Sniffing out Mafia 101" with Professor melo. Your homework for next session is to read chapters 3 and 4 and write 1000 words on "Third person on the bandwagon: Evil or not?"
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Also, uh, since a lot of people seemed to be going nuts about narrative and speculation, it really wasn't tied into ability uses or much beyond who got mafia'd, black sun'd, and died by an ability. The rest was narrative flavor.
Mostly. I didn't have access to the actions and behind the scenes shenanigans, or there might have been more of that.
(See also: Kime's "Saber is Not Confirmed" mantra that he kept repeating all through Day 2)
Ohhhh right. No, I do that about 50% of the time, regardless of whether I'm villager or mafia. Sometimes I feel like going with the flow and just gambling the game, and sometimes I feel the need to point out that it's really reckless and unnecessary :P. It has caused me deaths as a villager too, but people going with the first option has won me games as mafia
This has been "Sniffing out Mafia 101" with Professor melo. Your homework for next session is to read chapters 3 and 4 and write 1000 words on "Third person on the bandwagon: Evil or not?"
Also, uh, since a lot of people seemed to be going nuts about narrative and speculation, it really wasn't tied into ability uses or much beyond who got mafia'd, black sun'd, and died by an ability. The rest was narrative flavor.
Mostly. I didn't have access to the actions and behind the scenes shenanigans, or there might have been more of that.
The biggest problem this caused was when the narration implied the Black Sun might backlash against the mafia, which is pretty much the source of people assuming there was a second SK.
I liked the shifting viewpoints, the narrations were pretty good.
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blahmcblahYou pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly.Registered Userregular
Also, uh, since a lot of people seemed to be going nuts about narrative and speculation, it really wasn't tied into ability uses or much beyond who got mafia'd, black sun'd, and died by an ability. The rest was narrative flavor.
Mostly. I didn't have access to the actions and behind the scenes shenanigans, or there might have been more of that.
The narrations were great, a very enjoyable read. I liked the POV changes a lot - they really added to the atmosphere. Thanks much!
Ohhhh right. No, I do that about 50% of the time, regardless of whether I'm villager or mafia. Sometimes I feel like going with the flow and just gambling the game, and sometimes I feel the need to point out that it's really reckless and unnecessary :P. It has caused me deaths as a villager too, but people going with the first option has won me games as mafia
Sure, but that's "Maintaining a Consistent Playstyle", which is slightly more advanced coursework.
This has been "Sniffing out Mafia 101" with Professor melo. Your homework for next session is to read chapters 3 and 4 and write 1000 words on "Third person on the bandwagon: Evil or not?"
Sir FabulousMalevolent Squid GodRegistered Userregular
To address what Shalmelo was saying about my promise to come back and do an analysis later, this is probably exactly what I would have said as a villager.
I legitimately wanted to do some day 1 analysis, and I legitimately did not have time to do an analysis at that moment, but intended to do one later.
It was only after I went back and looked at day 1 that I realized that there actually wasn't a lot to analyze.
Did you come back and say so though?
If you've got time enough to go do some analysis, then you've got time enough to post your conclusions whatever they are.
Ohhhh right. No, I do that about 50% of the time, regardless of whether I'm villager or mafia. Sometimes I feel like going with the flow and just gambling the game, and sometimes I feel the need to point out that it's really reckless and unnecessary :P. It has caused me deaths as a villager too, but people going with the first option has won me games as mafia
Sure, but that's "Maintaining a Consistent Playstyle", which is slightly more advanced coursework.
This has been "Sniffing out Mafia 101" with Professor melo. Your homework for next session is to read chapters 3 and 4 and write 1000 words on "Third person on the bandwagon: Evil or not?"
To address what Shalmelo was saying about my promise to come back and do an analysis later, this is probably exactly what I would have said as a villager.
I legitimately wanted to do some day 1 analysis, and I legitimately did not have time to do an analysis at that moment, but intended to do one later.
It was only after I went back and looked at day 1 that I realized that there actually wasn't a lot to analyze.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, villagers do this shit on occasion too. It's just one of those things that tends to smell of mafia because your post is all "Look at me, contributing like a useful villager!" when in reality you're doing no such thing.
Also, uh, since a lot of people seemed to be going nuts about narrative and speculation, it really wasn't tied into ability uses or much beyond who got mafia'd, black sun'd, and died by an ability. The rest was narrative flavor.
Mostly. I didn't have access to the actions and behind the scenes shenanigans, or there might have been more of that.
The biggest problem this caused was when the narration implied the Black Sun might backlash against the mafia, which is pretty much the source of people assuming there was a second SK.
I liked the shifting viewpoints, the narrations were pretty good.
Yeah, more narrative than mechanical. The mafia had control over it, but in-game, it's not exactly a reliable ally.
Also, uh, since a lot of people seemed to be going nuts about narrative and speculation, it really wasn't tied into ability uses or much beyond who got mafia'd, black sun'd, and died by an ability. The rest was narrative flavor.
Mostly. I didn't have access to the actions and behind the scenes shenanigans, or there might have been more of that.
The biggest problem this caused was when the narration implied the Black Sun might backlash against the mafia, which is pretty much the source of people assuming there was a second SK.
I liked the shifting viewpoints, the narrations were pretty good.
Yeah, more narrative than mechanical. The mafia had control over it, but in-game, it's not exactly a reliable ally.
In game, you're not exactly a reliable ally!
but seriously, thanks a lot for the game. I definitely enjoyed playing what part of it I did, and I was happy to follow along with your narrations.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
First I told too much, than I played dumb on the question...
Indipendently from my malleability, living me alive cleared sepah from mafia suspicions. Than you've been unlucky using the two kills the way you did, it eliminated even the most remote chance of a second SK.
Than killing you come as kind of obvious...
Why would there be a second SK? I don't get why everyone was so confused about it. It was being used as a Mafia kill, killing all the high profile village targets. If anything, the mob attack was the tricky one to discern.
And the question wasn't whether Sepah was an SK, the question was whether he was a Mafia disguised as a seer.
I remember when DuE got outed I got very confused about the SK. I remember I went to several people and went "He says he has no concern for the mafia or the village.....and he has a vig!". Obviously concerned. Nobody responded to me. I pondered if they all thought it was an Oatway gambit and were seeing if I or someone else would fall for it , alternatively they were mafia looking to ....work for him or some weird shit.
I brought up the possibility of the sun being the mafia to @Kay but he thought it was way too unbalanced and made me feel like an idiot for thinking it
I tell you what, it was pretty frustrating being mafia and then watching people not read the OP.
No Drez, your attack won't hit because you'll be voted off before the attack phase.
I knew that. Not sure why that would frustrate you. I mean, sure, you had to console Locus on the m-board who apparently didn't realize that, but that just means my blast had the intended effect. Double points to me for calling out an actually mafia in the post.
I remember when DuE got outed I got very confused about the SK. I remember I went to several people and went "He says he has no concern for the mafia or the village.....and he has a vig!". Obviously concerned. Nobody responded to me. I pondered if they all thought it was an Oatway gambit and were seeing if I or someone else would fall for it , alternatively they were mafia looking to ....work for him or some weird shit.
I brought up the possibility of the sun being the mafia to @Kay but he thought it was way too unbalanced and made me feel like an idiot for thinking it
All I could think of all game was that if I were a villager I would be constantly thinking "Shouldn't specials be y'know special? Why would there be two functionally similar specials?".
Didn't want to say this of course. Too much "Does this guy have inside knowledge?" and "I thought this guy was supposed to be new". So the best I could do was question whether two SKs had ever happened and whether INANTP might be telling the truth.
I'd imagine. You might have come up with it independently, and even been the one to start spreading it here, but it seems like a pretty inevitable term.
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blahmcblahYou pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly.Registered Userregular
Srs question: I'm pretty sure I invented the term "vanillager." Is this true, or am I delusional?
Sorry brah, you're delusional. That's a term that's been around in regular Mafia/Werewolf for years and years.
Like, pre-2007?
This game has the earliest mention of the term vanillager that Google can find, back in February of 2007. Google can't find any mention of it on PA before this post, six months later. Maybe there's something on archive.org? In any case, I'm almost completely sure I heard the term when I used to play Werewolf on EFnet back in the mid-late 90s, and definitely heard it once on the Dice Tower board game podcast in the mid-00s (if I find which episode, I'll link it here - pretty sure they were discussing Ted Alspach's Ultimate Werewolf).
I knew that. Not sure why that would frustrate you. I mean, sure, you had to console Locus on the m-board who apparently didn't realize that, but that just means my blast had the intended effect. Double points to me for calling out an actually mafia in the post.
*pats himself on the back*
To be fair, although the order of those posts belies it, it was less me consoling Locus and more me relieving the correction pressure. Locus just happened to post about the incoming attack before I finished and posted my post.
So it frustrated me in the same way that dirt under my fingernails frustrates me. Given half a chance I'll clean them up subconsciously, and not being able to do so makes me feel icky.
I did not quite understand the mafias black sun attack. I thought my biggest threat was the vote and with my early suspicion I wanted to avoid the vote more than anything because I figured with my buffed stats I could survive individual attacks from the mafia members while leveling up killing whoever the village suggested.
Unfortunately I think it was in the narration after my reveal that it dawned on us that the whole stone thing was a mafia unblockable kill.
Never been a serial killer before and I thought the odds of surviving to the end of the game were kind of small so I had to do something big. Fun game. Thank you.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
I did not quite understand the mafias black sun attack. I thought my biggest threat was the vote and with my early suspicion I wanted to avoid the vote more than anything because I figured with my buffed stats I could survive individual attacks from the mafia members while leveling up killing whoever the village suggested.
Unfortunately I think it was in the narration after my reveal that it dawned on us that the whole stone thing was a mafia unblockable kill.
Never been a serial killer before and I thought the odds of surviving to the end of the game were kind of small so I had to do something big. Fun game. Thank you.
Less unblockable, more unresistable. No elemental resistance, and it was a high level MAG10 attacker.
...I honestly think my build could have survived the mob attack given my resistances/stat spread. The physical component was 1/6th of it (my main problem), while the bulk was Mag based, 2/5 of which I resisted and 3/5 of which I had strong defensive stats against. Though I had turrrrible HP.
I need to go back and do the maths sometime. Might have been amusing to survive that kill attempt and report it earlier in the game.
oh hey this game is over. This was a fun game! I always really like stat block games and I was sad I got put out so early. I was going to Charge everrrryyyonnneeee
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
oh hey this game is over. This was a fun game! I always really like stat block games and I was sad I got put out so early. I was going to Charge everrrryyyonnneeee
A mafia made the same mistake in that plan, but uh, Charge is self-target.
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El SkidThe frozen white northRegistered Userregular
oh hey this game is over. This was a fun game! I always really like stat block games and I was sad I got put out so early. I was going to Charge everrrryyyonnneeee
A mafia made the same mistake in that plan, but uh, Charge is self-target.
I made this same mistake, picked mind charge and went "uhhhh....why can I only target myself?" whoops.jpg.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Whereas I knew exactly how it worked and wanted Mind Charge + Megidola. But I ended up getting DIA for RG and WHERE DID IT GET ME?!?
oh hey this game is over. This was a fun game! I always really like stat block games and I was sad I got put out so early. I was going to Charge everrrryyyonnneeee
A mafia made the same mistake in that plan, but uh, Charge is self-target.
Langly's referring to the secret/special ability Charge, which grants one level of all -kaja effects at once. It's different from Power Charge and Magic Charge!
I did not quite understand the mafias black sun attack. I thought my biggest threat was the vote and with my early suspicion I wanted to avoid the vote more than anything because I figured with my buffed stats I could survive individual attacks from the mafia members while leveling up killing whoever the village suggested.
Unfortunately I think it was in the narration after my reveal that it dawned on us that the whole stone thing was a mafia unblockable kill.
Never been a serial killer before and I thought the odds of surviving to the end of the game were kind of small so I had to do something big. Fun game. Thank you.
Less unblockable, more unresistable. No elemental resistance, and it was a high level MAG10 attacker.
I wound up calculating that with my stats, namely 9 MA, I could have shot myself with the Black Sun while guarding and only take 165 HP. This would have left me with 15 HP (at 2 ST) at level 3.
Still, for a normal vanillager, such a high MA stat is probably suicide in the first place as it leaves (I'm guessing) 1 stat left to allocate to AG.
More to the point though, Blarney wanted to keep any non-killing attacks anonymous. So even if I were to shoot myself, without any narration to back me up, there's no real purpose for doing so. Had I been able to take the hit and live and notify everyone about it, I may well have done so just to see if I could nab village head.
I did not quite understand the mafias black sun attack. I thought my biggest threat was the vote and with my early suspicion I wanted to avoid the vote more than anything because I figured with my buffed stats I could survive individual attacks from the mafia members while leveling up killing whoever the village suggested.
Unfortunately I think it was in the narration after my reveal that it dawned on us that the whole stone thing was a mafia unblockable kill.
Never been a serial killer before and I thought the odds of surviving to the end of the game were kind of small so I had to do something big. Fun game. Thank you.
Less unblockable, more unresistable. No elemental resistance, and it was a high level MAG10 attacker.
...I honestly think my build could have survived the mob attack given my resistances/stat spread. The physical component was 1/6th of it (my main problem), while the bulk was Mag based, 2/5 of which I resisted and 3/5 of which I had strong defensive stats against. Though I had turrrrible HP.
I need to go back and do the maths sometime. Might have been amusing to survive that kill attempt and report it earlier in the game.
I wasn't certain anything other than a huge coordinated attack could have killed me.
@MrBlarney was I close to surviving that mafia attack?
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Just to add to what @Egos said, I'ma do a little breakdown of that incriminating @Sir Fabulous post to indicate the various reasons why it positively reeked of Mafia:
See, this right here is right out of the mafia playbook. A village leader has stuck his head up in a way that's going to cause some conversation. What you want to do is cast some doubt on his validity without leaving a trail. You're not going to vote for him, that would be silly. But if you can fan the flames of suspicion in the village so that THEY vote for him? Great! (See also: Kime's "Saber is Not Confirmed" mantra that he kept repeating all through Day 2)
Translation: Anybody else in Saber's squad want to speak up? We in the mafia could use a handy list of well-organized, likely-unguarded villagers to move to the top of our Must Kill list.
Another mafia classic - rally the village to do analysis while not actually doing any yourself, BUT (and this is important) the promise to come back and do some work later.
This has been "Sniffing out Mafia 101" with Professor melo. Your homework for next session is to read chapters 3 and 4 and write 1000 words on "Third person on the bandwagon: Evil or not?"
Mostly. I didn't have access to the actions and behind the scenes shenanigans, or there might have been more of that.
Ohhhh right. No, I do that about 50% of the time, regardless of whether I'm villager or mafia. Sometimes I feel like going with the flow and just gambling the game, and sometimes I feel the need to point out that it's really reckless and unnecessary :P. It has caused me deaths as a villager too, but people going with the first option has won me games as mafia
Evil * 1000
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The biggest problem this caused was when the narration implied the Black Sun might backlash against the mafia, which is pretty much the source of people assuming there was a second SK.
I liked the shifting viewpoints, the narrations were pretty good.
The narrations were great, a very enjoyable read. I liked the POV changes a lot - they really added to the atmosphere. Thanks much!
Sure, but that's "Maintaining a Consistent Playstyle", which is slightly more advanced coursework.
See me after class, Mister.
I legitimately wanted to do some day 1 analysis, and I legitimately did not have time to do an analysis at that moment, but intended to do one later.
It was only after I went back and looked at day 1 that I realized that there actually wasn't a lot to analyze.
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If you've got time enough to go do some analysis, then you've got time enough to post your conclusions whatever they are.
It was a shitty, tangled mess, but I said that I was going to post an analysis, and by golly I never back down from a promise.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
Make him write a paper on Stevers Law!
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, villagers do this shit on occasion too. It's just one of those things that tends to smell of mafia because your post is all "Look at me, contributing like a useful villager!" when in reality you're doing no such thing.
Yeah, more narrative than mechanical. The mafia had control over it, but in-game, it's not exactly a reliable ally.
In game, you're not exactly a reliable ally!
but seriously, thanks a lot for the game. I definitely enjoyed playing what part of it I did, and I was happy to follow along with your narrations.
I remember when DuE got outed I got very confused about the SK. I remember I went to several people and went "He says he has no concern for the mafia or the village.....and he has a vig!". Obviously concerned. Nobody responded to me. I pondered if they all thought it was an Oatway gambit and were seeing if I or someone else would fall for it , alternatively they were mafia looking to ....work for him or some weird shit.
I brought up the possibility of the sun being the mafia to @Kay but he thought it was way too unbalanced and made me feel like an idiot for thinking it
I knew that. Not sure why that would frustrate you. I mean, sure, you had to console Locus on the m-board who apparently didn't realize that, but that just means my blast had the intended effect. Double points to me for calling out an actually mafia in the post.
*pats himself on the back*
Didn't want to say this of course. Too much "Does this guy have inside knowledge?" and "I thought this guy was supposed to be new". So the best I could do was question whether two SKs had ever happened and whether INANTP might be telling the truth.
U needed a cure to act.
Sorry brah, you're delusional. That's a term that's been around in regular Mafia/Werewolf for years and years.
Nyes
Like, pre-2007?
Friend Safari: Fighting - Machoke, Pancham, Riolu | In game name: Jessica
Official Weather Gym Leader of the G+T Pokémon League. @me to try for the Climate Badge!
This game has the earliest mention of the term vanillager that Google can find, back in February of 2007. Google can't find any mention of it on PA before this post, six months later. Maybe there's something on archive.org? In any case, I'm almost completely sure I heard the term when I used to play Werewolf on EFnet back in the mid-late 90s, and definitely heard it once on the Dice Tower board game podcast in the mid-00s (if I find which episode, I'll link it here - pretty sure they were discussing Ted Alspach's Ultimate Werewolf).
So it frustrated me in the same way that dirt under my fingernails frustrates me. Given half a chance I'll clean them up subconsciously, and not being able to do so makes me feel icky.
Unfortunately I think it was in the narration after my reveal that it dawned on us that the whole stone thing was a mafia unblockable kill.
Never been a serial killer before and I thought the odds of surviving to the end of the game were kind of small so I had to do something big. Fun game. Thank you.
...I honestly think my build could have survived the mob attack given my resistances/stat spread. The physical component was 1/6th of it (my main problem), while the bulk was Mag based, 2/5 of which I resisted and 3/5 of which I had strong defensive stats against. Though I had turrrrible HP.
I need to go back and do the maths sometime. Might have been amusing to survive that kill attempt and report it earlier in the game.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
I knew the network attacked me the day I died. RG had a bit of a paranoia meltdown.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Yep, that's how I got offed too, I think.
coming back to do that is what caused me to vote for someone else.
A mafia made the same mistake in that plan, but uh, Charge is self-target.
I made this same mistake, picked mind charge and went "uhhhh....why can I only target myself?" whoops.jpg.
(Grudged.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Langly's referring to the secret/special ability Charge, which grants one level of all -kaja effects at once. It's different from Power Charge and Magic Charge!
I wound up calculating that with my stats, namely 9 MA, I could have shot myself with the Black Sun while guarding and only take 165 HP. This would have left me with 15 HP (at 2 ST) at level 3.
Still, for a normal vanillager, such a high MA stat is probably suicide in the first place as it leaves (I'm guessing) 1 stat left to allocate to AG.
More to the point though, Blarney wanted to keep any non-killing attacks anonymous. So even if I were to shoot myself, without any narration to back me up, there's no real purpose for doing so. Had I been able to take the hit and live and notify everyone about it, I may well have done so just to see if I could nab village head.
I wasn't certain anything other than a huge coordinated attack could have killed me.
@MrBlarney was I close to surviving that mafia attack?