24: Legacy doesn't think it needs Jack Bauer

Xantomas

I'M THE ONLY ONE I CAN TRUST!

I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN HELP!

Diplominator

I honestly don't hate in general the idea of continuing to explore the 24 universe, but I don't quite trust them to actually acknowledge and explore all the ways the world's have diverged. No 9/11, but a nuke has gone off on US soil. They've had a great deal of extra political shenanigans too. Assassinations and treason and whatnot.

If they cared to, they could keep a neat alternate history universe going for a while, Jack or no. They just have acknowledge that at this point the setting is at least as interesting as the character.

chiasaur11

Diplominator wrote: »

I honestly don't hate in general the idea of continuing to explore the 24 universe, but I don't quite trust them to actually acknowledge and explore all the ways the world's have diverged. No 9/11, but a nuke has gone off on US soil. They've had a great deal of extra political shenanigans too. Assassinations and treason and whatnot.

If they cared to, they could keep a neat alternate history universe going for a while, Jack or no. They just have acknowledge that at this point the setting is at least as interesting as the character.

A reminder. In the 24verse, The President of the United States conducted a massive terrorist conspiracy including the assassination of a former President.

His successor was the Prince of All Lies.

A mere nominee masterminding a terrorist conspiracy is nothing.

In the same time period where we had the Bush years and the Obama years, they had at least eight presidential administrations, with at least three of those Presidents killed during their administrations or shortly after. At least two of those Presidents were involved with conspiracies that make Whitewater look like nothing, and one of the better Presidents they had resigned due to Alzheimers in the middle of his term after being betrayed by his chief of staff.

I can only imagine what the Daily Show was like.

wandering

So I'm assuming the show will continue to have a repugnant pro-torture point of view

wikipedia wrote:

in February 2007, The New Yorker magazine reported that U.S. Army Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan (dean of the United States Military Academy at West Point), accompanied by three of the most experienced military and FBI interrogators in the country, met with the producers of 24 to criticize the show for misrepresenting the effectiveness of torture as an interrogation technique, saying it encouraged soldiers to see torture as a useful and justified tactic in the War on Terror, and damaged the international image of the United States. Brigadier General Finnegan believed the show had an adverse effect on the training of American soldiers because it advocated unethical and illegal behavior. In his words: "The kids see it, and say, ‘If torture is wrong, what about “24”?’ The disturbing thing is that although torture may cause Jack Bauer some angst, it is always the patriotic thing to do."

chiasaur11

wandering wrote: »

So I'm assuming the show will continue to have a repugnant pro-torture point of view

wikipedia wrote:

in February 2007, The New Yorker magazine reported that U.S. Army Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan (dean of the United States Military Academy at West Point), accompanied by three of the most experienced military and FBI interrogators in the country, met with the producers of 24 to criticize the show for misrepresenting the effectiveness of torture as an interrogation technique, saying it encouraged soldiers to see torture as a useful and justified tactic in the War on Terror, and damaged the international image of the United States. Brigadier General Finnegan believed the show had an adverse effect on the training of American soldiers because it advocated unethical and illegal behavior. In his words: "The kids see it, and say, ‘If torture is wrong, what about “24”?’ The disturbing thing is that although torture may cause Jack Bauer some angst, it is always the patriotic thing to do."

We don't know, it's not out yet.

When it is, presumably the thread will mention anything of that nature, and we can discuss the ways the show's continuation or cessation of the torture-as-effective narrative informs and is informed by the modern political climate, and how the removal of the character of Jack Bauer changes the perception of such actions.

But until then, thank you for citing a nine year old New Yorker article to prove your moral superiority to the rest of us. Really brings up the quality of the conversation, and in no way is reigniting an old argument we've all been through before with no new information or interesting prospective on the relevant issues. Really helpful!

wandering

Thanks, you're welcome!

kaceyp

Cross-posted from SE++:

kaceyp wrote: »

Aaaaahhh

A familiar face will be showing up on 24: Legacy

Carlos Bernard to Reprise His Role as Tony Almeida in Fox Reboot

I am excited by this despite the fact that I wasn't crazy about the ultimate direction of his character on the original show.

Dark Raven X

Neat, so it is actually a continuation? Figured it was a full on reboot, not a sequel.

Preacher

I think the saddest thing to me about Kiefer's new show doing well, all but guarantees we'll never see a good resolution to his russia storyline.

Diplominator

So, new version is out. No Jack, new protagonist, and the first two episodes have been pretty neat.

And yet...I'm kinda worried. It's a 24 show. With Muslim bad guys. With a Republican President.

That didn't work out great last time. I mean, the show's worst parts were more a symptom than a cause, but...it probably caused its share of misery, in terms of changing public attitudes about surveillance, torture, and extrajudicial killings.

Preacher

I dunno I'm tapping out, only watched one episode but between muslim terrorists, black people are drug dealers and just no one from the OG show I care about I can't even make it to the part I really want to see.

Oh well, didn't want to watch more tv anyway.

Preacher

I wonder how often a white character of irish descent relies on his clearly criminal IRA family for support.

"Well you know us irish bomb makers the lot of us."

shoeboxjeddy

In the first episode, somebody suggested that "Maybe Jimmy Smitts' wife doesn't want him to be President because she'll have to give up her career." The correct answer to that would be: "Uh... maybe she doesn't want him to be President because the last... 6(?) Presidents have either died, been fatally wounded, or resigned in darkest shame. Maybe that's the reason??"

GONG-00

shoeboxjeddy wrote: »

In the first episode, somebody suggested that "Maybe Jimmy Smitts' wife doesn't want him to be President because she'll have to give up her career." The correct answer to that would be: "Uh... maybe she doesn't want him to be President because the last... 6(?) Presidents have either died, been fatally wounded, or resigned in darkest shame. Maybe that's the reason??"

She wants Alan Alda as President instead

Is this going to be a whole 24 episode season? If so, start the silent clock now for my interest.

shoeboxjeddy

GONG-00 wrote: »

shoeboxjeddy wrote: »

In the first episode, somebody suggested that "Maybe Jimmy Smitts' wife doesn't want him to be President because she'll have to give up her career." The correct answer to that would be: "Uh... maybe she doesn't want him to be President because the last... 6(?) Presidents have either died, been fatally wounded, or resigned in darkest shame. Maybe that's the reason??"

She wants Alan Alda as President instead

Is this going to be a whole 24 episode season? If so, start the silent clock now for my interest.

No, Legacy will be 12 episodes, like Live Another Day was.

Captain Marcus

Muslim terrorists thing is fine. Scary foreigners always make fun, easily boo-able bad guys.

What I didn't like was Carter's wife switching between "competent" to "hysterical" to "thinking Carter is nuts". Or Carter saying that he can't trust anyone in the FBI, or NSA, or ISA, or literally anyone else in our nation's massive security apparatus other than the ex-director of the CTU. Shit, they can't stick him in Thule AFB in Greenland? Or underground in Raven Rock or something?

I've never watched 24 before (and I was excited to have a black guy as the protagonist) but having the villains be hyper-competent ubermenches is kind of ridiculous. If this is that kind of series, well I'm out : /

Preacher

That's always been the series with regards to the villains.

Diplominator

Of course, it's 24, so in the end it'll probably end up being the senator behind it all, so the true enemy isn't the foreign brown people, it's the brown (Democratic, senator) people within that really get you.

Ninjeff

24 turned in to every crazy rights ultimate fantasy view of our government and country.
I used to be such a huge fan of the show, but i couldn't take it any more.

kaid

If you have a USB drive that contains "ALL OF THE SECRETS" maybe just maybe you should have either stuck it in your pocket or simply taken your gun and SHOOT it. The stupidity in the first episode is so bad I can't watch this.

Preacher

kaid wrote: »

If you have a USB drive that contains "ALL OF THE SECRETS" maybe just maybe you should have either stuck it in your pocket or simply taken your gun and SHOOT it. The stupidity in the first episode is so bad I can't watch this.

Yeah that's what was ultimately where I was like "nope". Because its not like you have to leave your phone/the usb behind. It would have made more sense if he still had the strongbox and didn't know it had a USB in it, but nah lets go full dumb.

AngelHedgie

shoeboxjeddy wrote: »

In the first episode, somebody suggested that "Maybe Jimmy Smitts' wife doesn't want him to be President because she'll have to give up her career." The correct answer to that would be: "Uh... maybe she doesn't want him to be President because the last... 6(?) Presidents have either died, been fatally wounded, or resigned in darkest shame. Maybe that's the reason??"

https://youtu.be/_P52G4Kyq5M

kaid

Preacher wrote: »

kaid wrote: »

If you have a USB drive that contains "ALL OF THE SECRETS" maybe just maybe you should have either stuck it in your pocket or simply taken your gun and SHOOT it. The stupidity in the first episode is so bad I can't watch this.

Yeah that's what was ultimately where I was like "nope". Because its not like you have to leave your phone/the usb behind. It would have made more sense if he still had the strongbox and didn't know it had a USB in it, but nah lets go full dumb.

Especially when you instantly recognize how important the USB drive is who would stick it in a bag and leave it on the ground. Most normal people I think would have either stick it in their pocket on them so as to not lose it or let it out of your possession or if you think you are at risk of capture take your gun in your hand and destroy the drive. Sure it would suck to lose that information but the alternative is much worse. And given you apparently cannot trust people even very highly ranked simply destroying the data seems the best call.

Preacher

Also what I don't get, why did he go down to kill those guys in the stupidest way possible? Like just wait where you are with the elevated position and they literally have to move into your line of sight?

shoeboxjeddy

Preacher wrote: »

Also what I don't get, why did he go down to kill those guys in the stupidest way possible? Like just wait where you are with the elevated position and they literally have to move into your line of sight?

There were 3 of them and one of him. Getting out of cover to shoot them guarantees three assault rifles shooting at him. Vs what he did, attacking them from confusion and an unknown position, with a clear and present danger to split their focus.

TexiKen

To be fair to 24 it's one of the few shows that actually does make muslims the terrorists, all other shows bend over backwards to make it someone else. I heard about the Quantico season 1 "twist" with who was the terrorist and only Hollywood would think that's clever or smart, just so stupid. And early on they did do russians and eastern europeans before it became so mundane (the grand irony being it's been worn out so much now when it becomes topical again it feels lazy). And as mentioned it always turns out to be the strings pulled by someone in the government or parliament. AND they also were willing to bring in the chinese for a bit before everyone started sucking them off in Hollywood.

I haven't watched the new episodes yet but will try and get back onboard, the stuff they showed months ago seemed lolz but people have said the first two episodes are decent.

Preacher

24 normally doesn't have muslim terrorists, they have muslim thugs working for actual white people terrorists. Though season 4 did actually have muslim terrorists and they lead every episode with an apology.

007ctrl_room

I used to love 24 - this reboot was solid, but so far not even close to the original

SyphonBlue

Preacher wrote: »

24 normally doesn't have muslim terrorists, they have muslim thugs working for actual white people terrorists. Though season 4 did actually have muslim terrorists and they lead every episode with an apology.

Season 2 has Muslim terrorists also, they're just not the ones you think. They look just like you!!!!!!!

Dark Raven X

They're just the early season goons, and even they were shown to be conflicted about what they were doing. The masterminds and threat for most of the season were thoroughly unreligious business guys. Think Day 2 was the best at casting Muslims as the good guys.

Thawmus

Dark Raven X wrote: »

They're just the early season goons, and even they were shown to be conflicted about what they were doing. The masterminds and threat for most of the season were thoroughly unreligious business guys. Think Day 2 was the best at casting Muslims as the good guys.

I'd say Day 6 was a close contender, what with having an entire faction of radical Muslims in our own country, who were literally hunting down bad radical Muslims.

But yeah, Day 2, when one of the Terrrrists turned out to be the innocent white chick I'm pretty sure thousands of heads exploded upon the original airing.

Big Dookie

Not gonna lie, this season is not doing it for me. They're gonna have to bring this all together real quick if I'm sticking around.