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[DARK SOULS 2] An Undead has come to play. Heh heh...
Fawst
The road to awe.Registered User regular
The road to awe.Registered User regular
Welcome to the Dark Souls 2 thread!
Dark Souls 2 is the latest game in the Souls series by From Software. It's the sequel to the spiritual successor to the original game, Demon's Souls. This series is not easy. It is not casual. It is hardcore, but it's fair. It also offers the greatest sense of accomplishment that I have ever felt in a game. Prepare to die.
So what is it?
Dark Souls 2 is a third-person action RPG. You are a cursed undead. You have come to the land of Drangleic for unknown reasons. You don't know why, but you are compelled to press on. Your quest has you ever seeking souls; larger, more powerful souls as you go on. You must seek the King. That is the only way...
The souls you collect by destroying your enemies are used in two ways: purchasing/upgrading equipment (more on that in a moment) and leveling up by way of increasing your attributes. Each attribute you raise increases the soul cost for the next attribute point. As you increase your attributes, you raise various statistics. And what would those statistics be?
The chart above lists the starting attributes and what raising each one would affect.
In addition to raising your attributes, you'll want to strengthen your gear. I won't go into details on how you unlock this feature (what? This is Dark Souls, go forth and discover!), but I'll give a general overview of the process.
You'll obtain various forms of Titanite on your journey. The main branch of Titanite comes in four forms: Shard, Large Shard, Chunk and Slab. It costs a variable amount of souls along with an increasing number of Titanite for each reinforcement point you add to an item. For instance, a +1 Bastard Sword takes X souls and 1 Titanite Shard. +2 is more souls and 2 Shards. +3 is more souls and 3 shards. +4 bumps you to 1 Large shard, and so on. Why would you do this? More damage, mainly, but it also can increase the scaling of a weapon.
What's scaling? In short, gear gives bonuses to damage based on attributes. These bonuses are hidden multipliers that are represented by a letter grade scale from E (worst) to S (best). Not all scaling grades are the same. You can have an S rank in Dexterity bonus in two weapons that do not provide the same damage bonus, but they will be similar. Also, elemental damage is boosted in the same way. On the plus side, when you level up, you will see the effect that boosting an attribute has on your stats. See? The game gives you some info after all!
So what is the world like? Well, you begin in a tutorial area, of sorts. From there you will reach the central hub area, Majula, which is where you'll do your leveling by way of the Emerald Herald. There is a distressingly large number of people who have been able to miss her, so I'll give you this freebie: she's standing on the cliff near the bonfire in Majula. Speak with her and exhaust her dialogue options. In fact, whenever you meet a person you can speak with, exhaust their dialogue options. You can miss out on some pretty major items and features of the game if you don't. After all, you get nothing if you don't ask for it. From Majula, there are multiple pathways to take. In general, think of the areas as points along spokes radiating out of Majula. Some are interconnected in non-obvious ways, but not all; however, that leads us to the bonfires.
Bonfires are your brief moments of respite in the world. You rest at a bonfire to refill your Estus Flask (your primary method of healing, which has limited uses), restore your health, restore your weapon durability (what, you thought your equipment couldn't take a beating?), access the fast travel system (bonfires are linked and can be accessed from any other bonfire, with the exception of Primal Bonfires -- basically the "dead end" points of major areas), Burn various items for various effects and respawn the enemies in the local area.
Wait, what?
Yeah. Just because you've killed something doesn't mean it stays dead. Not initially, anyways. Every time you rest at a bonfire, the surrounding area will respawn its enemies. This will allow you to farm for souls and items, but only to a point. Kill enemies enough times and they no longer respawn. This is a blessing and a curse. It will make your way easier after a while if you fail multiple times, but you also lose out on being able to earn more souls and chances at loot drops. That's OK for the most part; the game pretty much throws souls at you so leveling up is never really an issue.
Speaking of death, when you die you lose your humanity and the souls you're currently carrying. There is very much a risk vs. reward thing going on here. Should you keep pressing on while carrying all those souls you've fought so hard to earn, or do you go back to a bonfire to return to Majula and level up or buy things? Each time you die, you leave behind a bloodstain. Touching that bloodstain will restore the souls you lost when you died. However, if you die before you reach that bloodstain, the souls you lost the first time are gone. Did I mention that every time you die, you lose a percentage of your max HP?
Bloodstains lead to another point: online play. This game features a passive online component where you'll see the phantoms of other players randomly pop up as you play. Also, when those players die, they leave behind a bloodstain that you can activate which shows you the last few seconds before they died. You won't see exactly what killed them (unless they fell off a cliff, and that's always good for a laugh), but you'll get an idea of what may be lurking around the next corner.
In addition, you can leave messages for players in other worlds. The messages they leave can be helpful or they can be deceptive. Don't believe everything you read. The message system is made up of basic terms that can be strung together to form rudimentary messages. You can offer advice or simply cheer on other players.
Beyond that, you have the ability to summon and be summoned for jolly co-operation.
Remember when I mentioned that you lose your humanity upon death? You must be human to summon other-worldly help. However you can place a summon sign to offer your services to players in other worlds regardless of your living/undead status. This is another mechanic that I won't give away completely, but you'll eventually obtain a White Sign Soapstone and a Small White Sign Soapstone. The regular version allows you to be summoned for a very long time; typically until you die or defeat the boss of an area, however it's not infinite. Sometimes you can spend too long and kill too many enemies before your duty is fulfilled. The small version lasts only until you have killed a small number of enemies, then it's back to your world. So why would you want to do this?
Fulfilling your duty refills your Estus, restores your weapon durability and restores a portion of your humanity, which in turn restores your diminished HP. It's also a relatively risk-free way to get a read on how a boss battle is going to go before you take him or her on yourself. I say "relatively" because, while there is no penalty for death as a summoned phantom, you DO use up your consumables (like Estus) and your gear DOES deteriorate. I suppose those are really the only penalties for failure. But hey, succeed and you get that stuff back. Yay!
Things You Should Know
This section explains some things that aren't really spelled out for you. This relates to gameplay mechanics, not story spoilers. So if you want the full "how in the $%@! do I do ____?!" experience, skip this. If you just want to know how things work, read on...
THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS
General Controls
(Based on the US PS3 setup; buttons translate as appropriate to the 360 controller -- PC players, get a controller).
Left Stick: move your character
Right Stick: move the camera; aim in first person view
L1: left hand action 1 (varies by equipment)
L2: left hand action 2 (varies by equipment)
L3: Jump while running
R1: right hand action 1 (varies by equipment)
R2: right hand action 2 (varies by equipment)
R3: toggle enemy lock-on
D-pad Left: cycle between gear equipped in left hand
D-pad Right: cycle between gear equipped in right hand
D-pad Up: cycle through attuned spells/miracles/hexes/pyromancies
D-pad Down: cycle through equipped consumables/items
X: confirm context-sensitive options (speak, activate, etc.); open hidden doors (this was previously done via attack in Dark Souls)
O: backstep; roll (direction of Left Stick); hold to run; while running, quickly release and press again to jump
Δ: tap to toggle two-hand mode for right hand gear; hold to toggle two-hand mode for left hand gear/activate Powerstance*
□: Use currently selected consumable/item
* Powerstance requirements: equip like-equipment in left and right hand AND have 1.5x the STR and DEX requirements of the weapons. You lose the ability to two-hand the left-hand weapon if you meet the Powerstance requirements.
Ranged Weapons
The controls for aiming/firing a ranged weapon depend on which hand it is equipped in.
Bow in left hand - tap L1 / hold Δ to ready the bow
Bow ready - tap L1 to fire ammo slot 1; tap L2 to fire ammo slot 2; hold R1 to enter first person/aim mode (can be fired without aiming)
Bow in right hand - tap R1 / tap Δ to ready the bow
Bow ready - tap R1 to fire ammo slot 1; tap R2 to fire ammo slot 2; hold L1 to enter first person/aim mode (can be fired without aiming)
Crossbow in left hand - tap L1 to fire ammo slot 1; tap L2 to fire ammo slot 2; hold Δ to two-hand the crossbow
Crossbow two-handed - tap L1 to fire ammo slot 1; tap L2 to fire ammo slot 2; hold R1 to enter first person/aim mode (can be fired without aiming)
Crossbow in right hand - tap R1 to fire ammo slot 1; tap R2 to fire ammo slot 2; tap Δ to two-hand the crossbow
Crossbow two-handed - tap R1 to fire ammo slot 1; tap R2 to fire ammo slot 2; hold L1 to enter first person/aim mode (can be fired without aiming)
So, in a nutshell, that's Dark Souls 2. I'd say more, but really ... these games are at their best when they're discovered, not when they're "played." That said, welcome to the thread! Please tag your spoilers, but don't hesitate to ask for help. We'll be as helfpul as possible without spoiling anything. Unless you ask us to, of course.
Praise the Sun!
Fawst on
+2
This discussion has been closed.
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Always be caestusing.
Unfortunately, switching from shield to dual-wield means I keep trying to hit LB to use my shield
which...doesn't work out so well when you have a sword there instead
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I didn't even hide very well I was an egg in the middle of nowhere. Guy ran by me twice.
This whole "older games were more obtuse" argument seems to stem from people making a false equivalence between "bad directions on where to go" with "bad explanations of mechanics." Older games had a strong tendency towards the former; Dark Souls II has a strong tendency towards the latter. Dark Souls II is clearly leaving some people with a bad taste, not because they missed secrets, but because they are completely unaware of certain basic aspects of how the game functions. I do not think this opinion is deserving of scorn, nor is it logically inconsistent to be OK with older games but find Dark Souls II frustrating.
You know what they say. The best defense is a good stabbing.
If you have a problem with that, it's fine. But don't expect fans of this design direction to say anything other than "There are other games to play if you hate that so much."
More importantly, it's possible to dislike an aspect of the game without hating the game as a whole. I like Dark Souls for being difficult but fair, having an engaging world, smooth combat, and a variety of build options. I don't like Dark Souls for having laggy multiplayer and unexplained basic gameplay mechanics. That is not a logically inconsistent opinion.
Discovering that there's a bonfire behind behind this false wall is fine.
Having to "discover" that there's a basic game control that's never explained anywhere is decidedly not. Like seriously, what sense of discovery does that game lose by making petty fundamentals like that more clear?
I super like these games while also thinking they have a bunch of stupid shit in them, and I when people suggest stuff like not properly explaining that you can hold Y/Triangle is part of the core identity of Dark Souls and you should play something else if this bothers you (among a host of other things), I feel like I'm looking at something alien that I'm too dumb to comprehend.
So people who would jump down others throats for reading a wiki to learn these cleverly designed mechanics. Where would they stand in your big book of "what people should do"
If you're running faith I don't see much reason not to go for lightning weapons over fire. Claymore's also probably better than Bastard Sword, but I mean... I just like Claymores.
I'm saying From has had 3 games to show us all that they're not going to do such a thing. They actively want to make even stuff that you consider basic gameplay mechanics stuff that you have to either experiment to discover or learn from your fellow players.
It's not going to change.
I don't think this argument holds any water when you can easily look up mechanics online. Everyone has some kind of access to the internet at this point.
I also think it is mechanically one of the most intuitive games out there. Maybe not every mechanic is readily apparent, but the controller maps very well to a majority of the actions.
And the tutorial caves do a good job of explaining 90% of the combat mechanics. All three games have that same mechanics tips section.
This is a game of discovery, through trial and lots of error. I understand being frustrated, I guess. The games can damn well be frustrating at times. But if the conclusion is "fuck Dark Souls because it is frustrating" or anything along those lines, then yeah, you'll get my frowny scornface as a result.
You are arguing against a point I am not making, by arguing for a position I hold (that there's no problem looking mechanics up online if you don't know). I don't know what to say in response to this.
EDIT X2: This game certainly isn't mechanically intuitive by any standard. Most games are very well explained; power stances, stat scaling, soul memory, and more are *very* difficult to imagine figuring out quickly, which is the very definition of unintuitive.
EDIT: For the argument that they wouldn't have explained things: They did, in fact, state in an interview that they would make the game more accessible and trim some of the fat. They even did that, by making covenants far more obvious, more fully explaining (though not nearly comprehensively) what each stat does, and some other minor things. It's not unreasonable to expect other basics to be explained, and even if it is unreasonable to expect From to do so, it is still justifiable to dislike that. There is no logical connection between "X probably won't change" and "I don't like X."
. . .but why should you have to? If that's the way they wanted to design this game (and maybe I missed a dev interview where this was their stated goal) that's fine, but it's also a perfectly valid critique of their system.
The absolute minimum control scheme yeh, it doesn't teach you any mechanics at all.
But your whole post is responding largely out of context, his was a response to other posts.
God dammit Dark Souls. I love you so much.
I wound up killing him solo myself when I tried him. At a certain point, I just got tired of how easy it was to be nicked by fire and knocked into lava and just spammed great resonant soul to be done with him. Not looking forward to that one on a melee character.
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
I could avoid the vast majority of it but every now and then got clipped by the edge of fire and knocked back into lava. And there was one position he could be in (on the right of the entrance) where I couldn't find a safe spot reliably for his fire sweep.
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
You don't have to.
You also don't need to powerstance to get through the game.
And it's also possible to discover powerstance on your own.
And pretty much powerstance is the only thing I can think of that anyone has a legitimate gripe about. I mean, the game doesn't need to and frankly shouldn't (in my opinion) explain poise and I-Frames and damage mitigation and and all those other mechanics. It's a game built for recursion. You try something, you die, you try again, die again, realize that what you are doing doesn't work, and try something else. That, to me, is the ideal Dark Souls experience. I'll admit that powerstance is something the game effectively "hides" from you, but it's not really that important once all is said and done and you don't need to approach this game from a statistician perspective either so I don't see the necessity of spelling any of them out.
My point is: If you want to know those mechanics, you can go online and find them out. But you don't have to or need to do that. You can get through the game without being intricately aware of its mechanics.
It teaches 90% of what it needs to teach. Which mechanics do you expect the game to explain to you? I must be missing something.
Like I didn't even realize until last night when I went back to clear out Shrouded Ruins that what curse does is turn you Hollow. This is after almost 50 hours of DS2 playtime and over 150-200 across the entire series. I flat out didn't know this until I noticed my midriff (beneath the Smelter Demon breastplate) was greenish all of a sudden. I went "hmm" and went on with my business.
If it bothers you then Wiki away all you like, but implying that it's the only way anyone can even play the game properly (ie, without artificially challenging themselves) is silly.
heh. Reminds me of a few days ago. I was working in that same location...I had already died once there, so i knew there were multiple of those enemies waiting for me. Previously i had pulled them one at a time with a bow or something, killed one, moved forward carefully. For some reason this time as soon as i turned the corner past the tree, all 4 of them dropped all at once and started running at me. I'm like NOPE! and ran, jumped off the cliff, crossed the bridge...still on my ass. kept running...all the way back to the bonfire and they still were near...i hit the bonfire "Cannot do this with enemies nearby" I got 2 of them in the bonfire room with me, and i manage to roll outside between them and get to the ladder, climbing up and running further away until they FINALLY decided i wasnt worth chasing.
I put the controller down at that point and took a break.
I never said it was unreasonable to dislike the way information is presented to the player.
But I disagree that the game is either counterintuitive or doesn't explain things to the player. You can learn through trial and error. Or not learn at all and play anyway.
For instance: I don't understand scaling. At all. I never have, across all three games. But I also don't care. I know that dual lightning +10 bastard swords does slightly more damage than non-infused versions and I know part of that has to do with the fact that my starting class's default Faith is 8. That's all I know and that's all I have to know.
I see your argument as taking it for granted that the player should or needs to fully understand the mechanics but I don't see it that way. To me, the game is about becoming a powerful murdergod. You can figure that out on your own without looking anything up or knowing any formulas or anything. As far as I'm concerned, the game teaches you exactly what it should: How to run, jump, roll, and attack things. Powerstance is missing and I think they should have explained that somewhere in game but other than the control scheme I don't think this game owes the player any particular insight into the mechanics.
Again, this is just how I feel. If you don't agree, that's fine, but as I said, your frustrations are easily mitigated by googling whatever mechanic you want to learn more about.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Thank you.
I'm not so sure about that; maybe some of the newer ones, but certainly in the past I would visit the local bbq place and play Street Fighter or MK and there were basic moves and specials on the sides or the front of the cabinet.
Interesting comment; however not a single person has said this. The goalpost hasn't been shifted. I maintain that DS can be obtuse. . .at best. Sure there are things you can discover by accident ("Yea, dual swords. . .opps I accidentally held down Y. WHOA!"). Other stuff I can not possibly see a player fully understanding without benefit of having to resort to an outside explanation.
This doesn't even go into some of the progression bullshit unrelated to actual mechanics of gameplay.