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[assign Negotiate with terrorists=TRUE]
azith28
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
It's kind of hard to see what Obama was trying to accomplish with this. I picked the CNN article since I'm sure a foxnews one would be ignored.
(CNN) -- The sense of pride expressed by officials of the Obama administration at the release of Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl is not shared by many of those who served with him -- veterans and soldiers who call him a deserter whose "selfish act" ended up costing the lives of better men.
"I was pissed off then and I am even more so now with everything going on," said former Sgt. Matt Vierkant, a member of Bergdahl's platoon when he went missing on June 30, 2009. "Bowe Bergdahl deserted during a time of war and his fellow Americans lost their lives searching for him."
Vierkant said Bergdahl needs to not only acknowledge his actions publicly but face a military trial for desertion under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
A reporter asked Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel Sunday whether Bergdahl had left his post without permission or deserted -- and, if so, whether he would be punished. Hagel didn't answer directly. "Our first priority is assuring his well-being and his health and getting him reunited with his family," he said. "Other circumstances that may develop and questions, those will be dealt with later."
After 5 years, what's next for Bergdahl?
Following his release from five years of captivity in Afghanistan on Saturday, Bergdahl was transferred to a military hospital in Germany.
A senior Defense official said Bergdahl's "reintegration process" will include "time for him to tell his story, decompress, and to reconnect with his family through telephone calls and video conferences."
Said Bergdahl's former squad leader, Greg Leatherman: "I'm pleased to see him returned safely. From experience I hope that he receives adequate reintegration counseling. I believe that an investigation should take place as soon as healthcare professionals deem him fit to endure one."
Another senior Defense official said Bergdahl will not likely face any punishment. "Five years is enough," he told CNN on condition of anonymity.
Questions surround the circumstances of Bergdahl's disappearance. Conflicting details have since emerged about how the militants managed to capture Bergdahl. Published accounts have varied widely, from claims he walked off the post to another that he was grabbed from a latrine.
According to first-hand accounts from soldiers in his platoon, Bergdahl, while on guard duty, shed his weapons and walked off the observation post with nothing more than a compass, a knife, water, a digital camera, and a diary.
Lawmaker on Bergdahl: Obama violated law
At least six soldiers were killed in subsequent searches for Bergdahl, and many soldiers in his platoon said attacks seemed to increase against the United States in Paktika Province in the days and weeks following his disappearance.
Many of Bergdahl's fellow troops -- from the seven or so who knew him best in his squad, to the larger group that comprised the 1st Battalion, 501st Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division -- told CNN that they signed nondisclosure agreements agreeing to never share any information about Bergdahl's disappearance and the efforts to recapture him. Some were willing to dismiss that document in hopes that the truth would come out about a soldier who they now fear is being hailed as a hero, while the men who lost their lives looking for him are ignored.
Idaho hometown prepares for homecoming
Many are flocking to social media, such as the Facebook page "Bowe Bergdahl is NOT a hero," where they share stories detailing their resentment. A number of comments on his battalion's Facebook page prompted the moderator to ask for more respect to be shown.
"I challenge any one of you who label him a traitor to spend 5 years in captivity with the Taliban or Haqqani, then come back and accuse him again. Whatever his intent when he walked away or was captured, he has more than paid for it."
Emails reported by the late Michael Hastings in Rolling Stone in 2012 reveal what Bergdahl's fellow infantrymen learned within days of his disappearance: he told people that he no longer supported the U.S. effort in Afghanistan.
"The future is too good to waste on lies," Bowe wrote to his parents. "And life is way too short to care for the damnation of others, as well as to spend it helping fools with their ideas that are wrong. I have seen their ideas and I am ashamed to even be American. The horror of the self-righteous arrogance that they thrive in. It is all revolting."
Bergdahl wrote to them, "I am sorry for everything. The horror that is America is disgusting."
CNN has not independently verified the authenticity of the emails.
A former member of Bergdahl's squad who has yet to identify his last name publicly but goes by "Cody" tweeted this weekend that before he disappeared, Bergdahl once told him, "If deployment is lame, I'm going to get lost in the Mountains and make my way to China."
Leatherman told CNN that Bergdahl "always looked at the mountains in the distance and talked of 'seeing what's on the other side.'"
Cody noted in his Twitter recollections a story that others from Blackfoot Company relay. While soldiers were searching for Bergdahl, a platoon "came upon some children, they asked him have they seen an American. The children said 'yes, he was crawling on his belly through weeds and acting funny a while ago,'" according to Cody.
Bergdahl's parents: 'It isn't over'
Exchanged prisoners' Taliban ties
Who did U.S. swap Bergdahl for?
Friend: Bergdahl was never out of mind
The platoon went to the village where the children said the American had gone. "Villagers said an American did come through the area and was wanting water and someone who spoke English," Cody shared.
Former Pfc. Jose Baggett, 27, of Chicago, was also in Blackfoot Company, and said he was close to two men "killed because of his (Bergdahl's) actions."
"He walked off," Baggett told CNN. "He left his guard post. Nobody knows if he defected or he's a traitor or he was kidnapped. What I do know is he was there to protect us and instead he decided to defer from America and go and do his own thing. I don't know why he decided to do that, but we spend so much of our resources and some of those resources were soldiers' lives."
On August 18, 2009, Staff Sgt. Clayton Bowen and Pfc. Morris Walker were killed by an IED in the search for Bergdahl. Staff Sgt. Kurt Curtiss was killed on August 26; 2nd Lt. Darryn Andrews and Pfc. Matthew Michael Martinek were killed after being attacked in Yahya Khail District on September 4; Staff Sgt. Michael Murphrey was killed September 5 by an IED at the Forward Operating Base, Sharana.
Moreover, other operations were put on hold while the search for Bergdahl was made a top priority, according to officers who served in Afghanistan in that time. Manpower and assets -- such as scarce surveillance drones and helicopters -- were redirected to the hunt. The lack of assets is one reason the closure of a dangerous combat outpost, COP Keating, was delayed. Eight soldiers were killed at COP Keating before it was ultimately closed.
One soldier with the 509th Regiment, a sister unit of the 501st, told CNN that after Bergdahl disappeared, the U.S. Army essentially was told to lock down the entire province of Paktika. He described sitting in the middle of a field with his platoon, vulnerable, with capabilities and personnel mismanaged throughout the region. Different platoons ran out of water, food, and ammunition.
Two mortarmen -- Pvt. Aaron Fairbairn and Pfc. Justin Casillas -- were killed in a July 4, 2009, attack.
"It was unbelievable," the soldier said. "All because of the selfish act of one person. The amount of animosity (toward him) is nothing like you've ever seen before."
That Bergdahl was freed in an exchange for five detainees at Guantanamo Bay is a further source of consternation.
"I don't understand why we're trading prisoners at Gitmo for somebody who deserted during a time of war, which is an act of treason," Vierkant said.
Sure, its early days so we don't know everything about the situation but what we do know about this person certainly sounds like he would be a less then ideal choice to change american policy over, much less free 5 dangerous terrorists for.
I respect the troops of my country. However, every one of them should be aware that the country can not be allowed to be blackmailed into making this kind of deal. If you are captured, you can hope for rescue, and the country should have the moral fiber to try and recover hostages by force. Not by negotiation.
Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
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Also POW exchanges are pretty normal, though we do keep pretending these people aren't POWs.
We got one of our own back and if we want to put him to trial, we can put him to trial; but the important part is that it's a trial we're giving him and not our enemies.
Are the Taliban terrorists? That's part of the confusion. The Taliban could also be defined as a legitimate state fighting force, or as legit as your going to get over there. We've so muddied the water on terrorist vs legal combatant, vs illegal combatant that it's hard to keep up as to what word container any of these people fall into on any day of the week.
I'm pretty sure the Taliban are legal combatants though.
For the purposes of discussing whether the actions taken in the OP were correct or not, it doesn't matter even a little bit.
There is also the note of marginal interest that the Taliban was the semi-legitimate government of Afghanistan, and are distinct from Al Qaeda. We may call them / think of them as insurgents or terrorists, and indeed they could be considered state sponsors of terrorism, but that doesn't change the fact that they are legal combatants that should probably be considered POWs.
But at the end of the day, we got our guy back, we got rid of a bunch of people who we probably should have gotten rid of before, and hey - there's a decent chance some of those Taliban guys will catch a Hellfire missile in the next few weeks / months. Wins all around.
<boggle>
So, you find it preferable to put more soldiers directly in harm's way to retrieve a POW, instead of diplomatically securing said POW's release?
"Good job, team. Sure we lost 3 of our team securing this POW, but at least we didn't have to rely on anything other than our rifles and giant dicks. High fives all around."
Im glad someone pointed out the derpiest part of his entire post.
I don't even...
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Nto to mention that kind of thing has a high likelihood of getting said hostage killed anyway
But yeah, I'm glad we made the exchange. Maybe Obama should have negotiated up to one US POW for everybody in Guantanamo--that'd be one way to close the base.
If you can save your guy without risking him or other soldiers, you fucking save your guy without risking him or other soldiers. Plenty of (by force) hostage rescues go horribly wrong. In fact, successful hostage rescues are the exception, with partial or complete mission failures being the norm.
The easy route is always preferred, and you only do things the hard way when you absolutely have to.
Hell, I'd be down with trading our prisoners for much less. Let's fire sale this. win-win.
Look I watched saving private ryan, I know the math the military uses for one guy.
Also I believe he was the only confirmed military POW in Afghanistan, that's why we didn't negotiate for more releases.
pleasepaypreacher.net
And the most shameless individual is professional troll and asshole Todd Kincannon, for his response:
Remember, kids:
Please, think of the kittens.
We got back our POW in exchange for some of their POWs
AMERICA IS DOOMED
???
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
pleasepaypreacher.net
Trade a dozen more for a good gyro.
And look at how all the extolled veterans have been treated as the wars drew down.
Every time they threw a huge fit or rioted negotiations would usually follow in a few hours. While I was there America negotiated with terrorists every few weeks.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Dude signed up in like 2008. It's not like he didn't know about it.
Quid is weak on terrorism. What else is he hiding?
I don't really see how anyone who isn't looking for a reason to get pissed off sees a bad thing here. Regardless of what charges may or may not be waiting for him, a POW is coming home to his family.
This is a good thing and I question the coherency of anyone who gets their cockles up in arms over this thing.
pleasepaypreacher.net
This is an interesting article about the Sgt.
When you're the out party, you'll find reasons to be pissed off.
No this is too generic and acts like the GOP now is like the liberals against Bush. No democratic senator would ever complain about the US trading prisoners for a POW, no matter who is in fucking charge. This is not a both sides are bad moment.
pleasepaypreacher.net
pleasepaypreacher.net
Obama never has to run for office again, and the people who are trying to use this against him would have attacked him regardless.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Yes Preacher but you have to understand that both sides are just as bad in every way including this and that is why you should vote republican.
They will also be detained in Qatar (though probably nicely) and most of them weren't involved in the conflict.
pleasepaypreacher.net
My only question - and it's academic, to me, as I don't think it should really inform how we treat him now - is the moral culpability he has in the soldiers that were lost trying to find him. If he bailed knowing that it would mean a bunch of guys would go hunting for him, thus placing their lives in jeopardy, then he's a super turbodouche. But I still think that the proper means of addressing it is to just wipe our hands of the situation. I mean, give the guy a dishonorable discharge if you really feel the need to top his five years of inhumane conditions, but leave the guy be.
pleasepaypreacher.net
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
There's always a few people in any command that are a bit off, we called them shitbags. These are the fuckers that get everyone in trouble in basic, always complaining, and general are obnoxious pains in the ass. Normally they get drummed out of the military on their own, leave when their time is up, or manage to fuck up badly enough to get a dishonorable. But, at least when I'm in, people just tend to shrug their shoulders when they screw up and go "well no shit, dude was always a shitbag" and wash their hands of it.
It's less sweeping shit under the rug and more "goddamn it Cartman" while shaking your head.
Desertion was one of several theories. It's not like he was the only disillusioned soldier in Afghanistan, and there were plenty of claims varying from him being grabbed on base / on patrol to getting grabbed while AWOL to straight up 'walk away' desertion.
I wouldn't put it past the military (at least, his squad / immediate superiors) to claim desertion as it's far less embarrassing / career killing than admitting that you done fucked up and lost one of your guys. Even more so if it was related to people hating him because he didn't fit into the squad or was disillusioned with what they were doing.
If it turned out his disappearance was a Pat Tillman type fuck-up / cover-up, I wouldn't be shocked.