Seeing things like 'what is creepypasta' on the front page of CNN really makes you realize how fucking dumb some internet born jargon is.
I'm waiting for "Who is Goatse" or "Why do two girls only have one cup".
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Slenderman is one of those things where someone said "hey wouldn't it be scary if there was a tall thin guy in a suit who's kind of blurry and comes after for you in an undefined and creepy fashion" and the whole internet said "yeah let's fucking beat that into the ground".
Aren't there at least a couple of different youtube series devoted to a found footage / horror style thing involving Slenderman? I know of one for sure, and I think there was at least one other.
I mean, as a kid you believe (or are encouraged to believe) in a whole bunch of things with abilities and powers beyond the norm, things like Santa, the Tooth Fairy, ghosts, other creepy things from stories and movies.
So, for me, it's not entirely hard to see how some kids could read about something, then stumble across more sources talking about it and presenting it as (more or less) real, and then think that it could actually be real.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Yeah, like... the entire reason we don't generally try children as adults is because they have a childish understanding of the world and fucking up even this bad doesn't imply the same state of mind that fucking up this bad at twenty two does. You might be able to convince me some seventeen year old who kills someone in an armed robbery should be tried as an adult. You're going to have a much harder time convincing me it's appropriate when it's twelve year old girls stabbing people because they're convinced an internet god wants them to.
Trying children as adults based not on their capacity but on how fucked up the crime is, is fucked up.
The question becomes, at this point how likely are they to do it again?
I really hate the fact they are hoping to try them as adults. The purpose of our prison system shouldn't be an eye for an eye. It's simply not ok to think 12 year olds should have their entire lives ruined because we want to punish them. It feels like exacting revenge rather than figuring out how to help these kids.
I 2nd that a better thread title is in order.
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Clint EastwoodMy baby's in there someplaceShe crawled right inRegistered Userregular
If you stab somebody because a made up internet meme told you to, you probably should be declared mentally unfit
Slenderman is one of those things where someone said "hey wouldn't it be scary if there was a tall thin guy in a suit who's kind of blurry and comes after for you in an undefined and creepy fashion" and the whole internet said "yeah let's fucking beat that into the ground".
Started out as a Photoshop contest on SomethingAwful, and the original stuff is extremely creepy and interesting because of the "unknown" nature of the creature and it was damn near the closest we got to a modern Lovecraftian horror.
Then people did what they always do on the internet and fleshed it out and turned it into a jump-scare, which just....ugh...
If you stab somebody because a made up internet meme told you to, you probably should be declared mentally unfit
That's why trying someone as a child exists. Trying them as an adult implies that they were capable of understanding their actions were wrong and why.
But does that just open more punishment options or also more help/treatability options?
Neither. This is the US. The options are to:
1) declare them a danger and mentally unstable, in which case they are sent to an underfunded juvenal detention facility with not enough medical professionals to help
or
2) declare them not a danger to others and mentally unstable, in which case they are sent into an underfunded mental care facility and probably mixed in with the general populace which include a whole slew of people society doesn't want to think about.
actually *clears throat, pushes glasses up nose* the 4chan thread that created SCP predates the Something Awful thread that created Slenderman by about two years
It should be mentioned that trying them as adults also allows their names to be released to make sure that we can publicly shame them and their families for raising monsters. After all the only explanation is that they are cold blooded killers who deserve to rot in jail for 30 years...not that they were stupid kids who were easily fooled into doing something horrendously stupid.
I think most kids have a generally broody darkness inside and they just reach out to whatever ghoulish fad exists at the time. I remember emo kids and the "took emo way too far" kids as distinct groups.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
With as pre-meditated this incident was, and how cold-blooded the attack was in relation to cause, I'm not sure looking at these girls as anything but adults is a good call for the health, safety and welfare of those they will encounter throughout their lives. They were, perhaps, horribly deluded by the Slenderman mythos and unfiltered media usage, but even in horror writing it is pretty clear that murdering is wrong and bad. Slenderman isn't a hero.
While it is a shame that these girls are so young to have so serious a sentence, at the same time they did plan (and re-plan, and have contingencies) to murder a classmate to become more powerful killers in the service of a non-existent horror being. Not comprehending that such a being doesn't exist doesn't really change the fact this was step one for additional assaults should their fantasies have been real.
*At least, as far as what has been reported can be believed.
So let me throw out this comparison. A kid can be lead to believe online that a sexual predator is their soul mate and wants to meet them. They plan how to sneak out of the house and get a bus downtown to meet this person. They have a backup plan to explain to their parents where they are at the time, with friends included in this scheming to make sure they have a rock solid story.
The story ends happily and the predator is caught and the kid, despite all the scheming, planning and lying is the victim because as a society we believe their brains are not capable of fully understanding grown up concepts and outcomes of behaviors. How is this different? Their brain was convinced of an alternate reality and that this was the only answer. If we were able to avoid the adult trial, keep their names out of the press and keep them in juvenile care, get them through high school and some community college I'm willing to bet they would lead normal lives. It's at least way more likely than if we shove them in adult jail until they're 40.
With as pre-meditated this incident was, and how cold-blooded the attack was in relation to cause, I'm not sure looking at these girls as anything but adults is a good call for the health, safety and welfare of those they will encounter throughout their lives. They were, perhaps, horribly deluded by the Slenderman mythos and unfiltered media usage, but even in horror writing it is pretty clear that murdering is wrong and bad. Slenderman isn't a hero.
While it is a shame that these girls are so young to have so serious a sentence, at the same time they did plan (and re-plan, and have contingencies) to murder a classmate to become more powerful killers in the service of a non-existent horror being. Not comprehending that such a being doesn't exist doesn't really change the fact this was step one for additional assaults should their fantasies have been real.
*At least, as far as what has been reported can be believed.
Look, I'm all for consequences for actions, but combining the concepts of 12 years old and premeditation just doesn't add up to me. You are stupid as shit at 12 years old. Hell, most people are stupid as shit into their 20's.
Yes they should know the difference between right and wrong, and real vs fake violence, but they're not cold calculating murderers. They're children who took something too far and the results of their actions cost way more then any of them could comprehend. Honestly, the parents deserve more punishment then the children. The children deserve therapy to hopefully guide them towards a reasonably normal adulthood after doing something like this.
actually *clears throat, pushes glasses up nose* the 4chan thread that created SCP predates the Something Awful thread that created Slenderman by about two years
I don't even know what the hell I was doing when I was 12.
Probably doing stupid stuff on my mountain bike and racking the shit out of myself.
+1
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
I agree with the parents have a large degree of culpability here, but planning on killing a friend, making counter plans in case things go wrong, and then reassessing the plan as events changed during the course of the evening is sort of the definition of premeditation. They may not have known the full consequences, or even have been able to comprehend the degree of wrong the act they were doing resided in, but at 12 you are typically in middle school. At that age you may be a total goofus about most things but you do know killing is bad and wrong, and that harming others is unacceptable.
They do need therapy, but I don't feel that age in this case is a bar against the degree of what they did. I haven't met them and, even if I did, I wouldn't be qualified to determine if they were self-aware enough in their actions to understand just how wrong their plan and assault was. But if a profession evaluates them and thinks being tried as an adult is the way to go I wouldn't have a problem with it. If the professional thinks they are just deluded kids, I'd be fine with a lighter sentence.
Being a child doesn't absolve guilt or agency in your own actions. Many kids at the age of 12 are fully aware of their actions to a greater degree than 18-20 year olds. Each child is different. If these girls did what the media is claiming, I'd be quite ready to believe they were calculating murderers as they calculated how to murder someone. Just because their parents failed them in their upbringing doesn't excuse the fact actions have consequences and trying to kill someone has about the most serious consequences we have in this country.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Obviously it depends on the person, but my memory of being twelve is not that I was floating through a blurred fantasy land composed of a mashup of the real world and whatever fantasy novel I'd read that week.
Sure, twelve-year-olds are stupid. Teenagers are stupid. Twenty-year olds are stupid. Etc. It's really easy to pass off any age below like 18 as being a barely cogent blob of meat that has no idea what's going on, but kids are smarter than we think.
Heck in this case they waffled back and forth about who would do the stabbing mid-execution because they knew how wrong it was. They had a crazy end goal, but in the moment they knew that the act of stabbing someone, whatever the motivation, is a really bad thing to do.
I'm not saying they should be tried as adults (seems to carry more baggage than would be productive), but I also don't think that trying someone as a minor should necessarily entail the assumption that they were one mental step above the faculties of a dog. There's a spectrum of how much kids understand as they grow older, and being twelve is pretty lucid.
Posts
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
I mean, as a kid you believe (or are encouraged to believe) in a whole bunch of things with abilities and powers beyond the norm, things like Santa, the Tooth Fairy, ghosts, other creepy things from stories and movies.
So, for me, it's not entirely hard to see how some kids could read about something, then stumble across more sources talking about it and presenting it as (more or less) real, and then think that it could actually be real.
This is pretty much everything on the internet.
Didn't realize it was just some shit made up the internet.
so this is like that Stone Soup story, except instead of being a shared delicious dish, it's a noxious bowl of crap that makes Taco Bell jealous.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
Their ability to never actually hit rock bottom is so unfathomable and improbable, CNN is basically a real life SCP.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Yeah I think we had this discussion before. It's so nice that they're that old and still getting down on it.
The question becomes, at this point how likely are they to do it again?
I 2nd that a better thread title is in order.
That's why trying someone as a child exists. Trying them as an adult implies that they were capable of understanding their actions were wrong and why.
But does that just open more punishment options or also more help/treatability options?
Started out as a Photoshop contest on SomethingAwful, and the original stuff is extremely creepy and interesting because of the "unknown" nature of the creature and it was damn near the closest we got to a modern Lovecraftian horror.
Then people did what they always do on the internet and fleshed it out and turned it into a jump-scare, which just....ugh...
Neither. This is the US. The options are to:
1) declare them a danger and mentally unstable, in which case they are sent to an underfunded juvenal detention facility with not enough medical professionals to help
or
2) declare them not a danger to others and mentally unstable, in which case they are sent into an underfunded mental care facility and probably mixed in with the general populace which include a whole slew of people society doesn't want to think about.
actually *clears throat, pushes glasses up nose* the 4chan thread that created SCP predates the Something Awful thread that created Slenderman by about two years
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Like star wars or the constabulary?
One is still within reach. Don't give up on your goals.
Yet only the Sith deal in absolutes and seek executive office.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
While it is a shame that these girls are so young to have so serious a sentence, at the same time they did plan (and re-plan, and have contingencies) to murder a classmate to become more powerful killers in the service of a non-existent horror being. Not comprehending that such a being doesn't exist doesn't really change the fact this was step one for additional assaults should their fantasies have been real.
*At least, as far as what has been reported can be believed.
The story ends happily and the predator is caught and the kid, despite all the scheming, planning and lying is the victim because as a society we believe their brains are not capable of fully understanding grown up concepts and outcomes of behaviors. How is this different? Their brain was convinced of an alternate reality and that this was the only answer. If we were able to avoid the adult trial, keep their names out of the press and keep them in juvenile care, get them through high school and some community college I'm willing to bet they would lead normal lives. It's at least way more likely than if we shove them in adult jail until they're 40.
Executive Order 66
Look, I'm all for consequences for actions, but combining the concepts of 12 years old and premeditation just doesn't add up to me. You are stupid as shit at 12 years old. Hell, most people are stupid as shit into their 20's.
Yes they should know the difference between right and wrong, and real vs fake violence, but they're not cold calculating murderers. They're children who took something too far and the results of their actions cost way more then any of them could comprehend. Honestly, the parents deserve more punishment then the children. The children deserve therapy to hopefully guide them towards a reasonably normal adulthood after doing something like this.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
Probably doing stupid stuff on my mountain bike and racking the shit out of myself.
They do need therapy, but I don't feel that age in this case is a bar against the degree of what they did. I haven't met them and, even if I did, I wouldn't be qualified to determine if they were self-aware enough in their actions to understand just how wrong their plan and assault was. But if a profession evaluates them and thinks being tried as an adult is the way to go I wouldn't have a problem with it. If the professional thinks they are just deluded kids, I'd be fine with a lighter sentence.
Being a child doesn't absolve guilt or agency in your own actions. Many kids at the age of 12 are fully aware of their actions to a greater degree than 18-20 year olds. Each child is different. If these girls did what the media is claiming, I'd be quite ready to believe they were calculating murderers as they calculated how to murder someone. Just because their parents failed them in their upbringing doesn't excuse the fact actions have consequences and trying to kill someone has about the most serious consequences we have in this country.
Sure, twelve-year-olds are stupid. Teenagers are stupid. Twenty-year olds are stupid. Etc. It's really easy to pass off any age below like 18 as being a barely cogent blob of meat that has no idea what's going on, but kids are smarter than we think.
Heck in this case they waffled back and forth about who would do the stabbing mid-execution because they knew how wrong it was. They had a crazy end goal, but in the moment they knew that the act of stabbing someone, whatever the motivation, is a really bad thing to do.
I'm not saying they should be tried as adults (seems to carry more baggage than would be productive), but I also don't think that trying someone as a minor should necessarily entail the assumption that they were one mental step above the faculties of a dog. There's a spectrum of how much kids understand as they grow older, and being twelve is pretty lucid.