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Well, sure; now you're running Webspinner at turn 1 and Haunted Creeper at turn 2. Both give you a/several 1 power creatures that can't do much other than tickle things unless you combine them with another 1/1 creature (wolf) or Hunter's Mark or Houndmaster or Hyena, etc. They are still weak individually. Webspinner's deathrattle can also provide no value.
Compare Webspinner to Northshire Cleric or Void Walker, etc. Beast cards feel weaker because they're Beasts, unless they're comboed with something. Obviously Snapjaw Turtle + Houndmaster is excellent, and Savannah Highmane is an Epic/Legendary in disguise, so there are some good examples. I just don't like having to draw, then combo cards to get expected value.
I guess what it comes down to is I prefer to win board trades and build up my board, whereas most Beast-based minion trades involve expendable minions. Or at least they do early on, anyway.
I guess what it comes down to is I prefer to win board trades and build up my board, whereas most Beast-based minion trades involve expendable minions. Or at least they do early on, anyway.
Sounds like you'd enjoy Priest more than anything, I think.
I guess what it comes down to is I prefer to win board trades and build up my board, whereas most Beast-based minion trades involve expendable minions. Or at least they do early on, anyway.
Sounds like you'd enjoy Priest more than anything, I think.
And indeed, I do tend to gravitate that way. I recognize that not every strat is going to work with every class, but as a longtime Hunter player in WoW I do wish my favorite class was more in line with my preferences. I'm happy enough playing Priest or Controllior in the meantime.
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited September 2014
Aaaaargh, I hate how people still think Tundra Rhino isn't a good card. It's a card that will flat-out win you the game if it sticks, and it's actually kind of hard to kill when dropped on curve without using up the removal you wanted to use on the Highmane. I mean, really: You drop it on turn five, do two damage or knock off a weenie, and then your either get a charging Highmane next turn or they just burned their removal the turn before your highmane. It's a win-win, with the earlier being a massive win.
Everyone really undervalues charge-givers and I have no idea why. The old refrain in magic "this card would be good if it had haste" does extend here, too; the same reason Rag is so good--you get instant value out of it. Tundra Rhino lets you get instant value out of all your beasts, and that is such a big thing when most beasts are fragile and often won't survive very long if just plopped down.
Oh, and the Rhino makes the Hyena an absolute monster if you have some weenies to drop with it (webspinners and creepers and whatnot), because you put down the hyena, sack some weenie beasts, and instantly hit for a lots of damage. It's a good card, guys. Really.
So I'm about to be at 1600 dust again and am thinking about crafting my next legendary. In reading this thread, it seems like the prevailing thought is Sylvanas? I currently have:
Leeroy
Cairne
Mukla
Grom
Malygos edit: I knew that spelling had looked wrong
VanCleef
Nozdormu
Naxx-legends
zerzhul on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Aaaaargh, I hate how people still think Tundra Rhino isn't a good card. It's a card that will flat-out win you the game if it sticks, and it's actually kind of hard to kill when dropped on curve without using up the removal you wanted to use on the Highmane. I mean, really: You drop it on turn five, do two damage or knock off a weenie, and then your either get a charging Highmane next turn or they just burned their removal the turn before your highmane. It's a win-win, with the earlier being a massive win.
Everyone really undervalues charge-givers and I have no idea why. The old refrain in magic "this card would be good if it had haste" does extend here, too; the same reason Rag is so good--you get instant value out of it. Tundra Rhino lets you get instant value out of all your beasts, and that is such a big thing when most beasts are fragile and often won't survive very long if just plopped down.
Oh, and the Rhino makes the Hyena an absolute monster if you have some weenies to drop with it (webspinners and creepers and whatnot), because you put down the hyena, sack some weenie beasts, and instantly hit for a lots of damage. It's a good card, guys. Really.
It's not a bad card, it's just sort of situational so it gets bumped in favor of other cards.
But you may be right, it might be time to start rotating it back in.
So I'm about to be at 1600 dust again and am thinking about crafting my next legendary. In reading this thread, it seems like the prevailing thought is Sylvanas? I currently have:
Ragnaros, Sylvanas, or Ysera are all good crafts if you don't have them. Consider dusting Leeroy and using the 1600 dust from that plus your other 1600 dust to make 2 of the 3 (Rag and Sylvanas imo).
Oh god, I was at 6 health against a mage for 5 turns before I won. I thought he might have been trolling me since he was at full health at the beginning, but it was just the tensest lack of fireball ever.
Has leeroy's utility really dropped enough due to 1 mana to dust him?
Not necessarily (although it did fuck Miracle Rogue pretty hard and weaken one of Handlock's finishing combos), but it's a good opportunity to switch him to another legendary if you find you're not really using him, as I found.
Seems to be the first one you play is the unadjusted price for some reason. Had the same thing happen to me with a Leeroy and Buzzard--next time I played them they were the new costs.
Buggy I guess.
Astraphobia on
0
LibrarianThe face of liberal fascismRegistered Userregular
Leeroy can still do 20 damage in Miracle, 24 if the Rogue has perfect draw(Leeroy + Cold Blood + Shadow Step + Leeroy + Cold Blood + Preparation + Eviscerate(or 23 with Sinister Strike). So yeah, they removed the totally annoying ability to play Leeroy 3 times in a row, but still big burst damage.
So I am torn about dusting him, since while I do not play Miracle he is still a decent finisher in most decks.
So that was delightful. Playing against a priest, and on round 7 I finally manage to clear his board, including his deathknight. The creature it summons for me is... my single abusive sergeant, the only creature in my deck costing less than 4.
Two turns later he thoughtsteals and gets 2x druid of the claw. I concede when I see the second one drop.
leeroy is immediate reach in a ton of decks and he was good before people figured out miracle rogue
1 mana won't change that
+2
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I'm not trying to say Leeroy is bad. But his utility has been reduced by the change, and I took the opportunity to turn him into another Legendary that I'll probably get more mileage out of, and merely suggested that others do the same.
+1
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
yeah, if they nerfed him 1 mana and he still only gave me 400 dust to dust I wouldn't do it. but full legendary value for a card I don't use very often anyway? (only when I feel like miracle-ing for a bit) well worth it.
Leeroy can still do 20 damage in Miracle, 24 if the Rogue has perfect draw(Leeroy + Cold Blood + Shadow Step + Leeroy + Cold Blood + Preparation + Eviscerate(or 23 with Sinister Strike). So yeah, they removed the totally annoying ability to play Leeroy 3 times in a row, but still big burst damage.
So I am torn about dusting him, since while I do not play Miracle he is still a decent finisher in most decks.
I think they're mostly okay with 6-card, 10-mana combos for 24+ damage. Even in your example that means they had to not use one of their Preparations for draw with Auctioneer earlier than turn 10. Plus, the more Cold Bloods and Sinister Strikes that go in the deck mean less room for things like Earthen Rings or Sludge Belchers to try and survive until turn 10. They don't seem to want to kill the concept of Miracle Rogue, they just wanted to slow it down by a turn or two.
Had to play some Priest today thanks to questing, and just had the most Priest game ever against control Warrior
-1st Thoughtsteal hits Cairne
-Cabal Shadow Priest a Armorsmith, to give me 6 armor cushion against Alex (which he plays 2 turns later)
-Play my own Cairne
-2nd Thoughsteal hits Cairne again
-He copies that Cairne with Faceless Manipulator, which I then Mind Control
I ended the game with three unkilled Cairnes on the field
+2
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited September 2014
I played against a shamanigans deck in casual when doing dailies with my spellpower mage. Turn 10 he dropped KT and sacked his two cairnes (faceless), resulting in two cairnes and two baines, and rolled a taunt totem while he was at 10 health.
I, in return, killed his KT with a +5 frostbolt and then killed him with a +5 fireball. I really like Malygos.
i built control paladin because i needed to run some paladin dailies and i heard it was good.
i won 5 straight games against miracle rogue, control warrior, ramp druid, priest, and something else.
every game took ten fucking minutes, but i slowly ground every opponent hopelessly to death.
it was truly awful. there was nothing anyone could do about it.
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
i built control paladin because i needed to run some paladin dailies and i heard it was good.
i won 5 straight games against miracle rogue, control warrior, ramp druid, priest, and something else.
every game took ten fucking minutes, but i slowly ground every opponent hopelessly to death.
it was truly awful. there was nothing anyone could do about it.
my control priest normally fairs pretty well against control pally
your heals are limited, I can heal foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
i built control paladin because i needed to run some paladin dailies and i heard it was good.
i won 5 straight games against miracle rogue, control warrior, ramp druid, priest, and something else.
every game took ten fucking minutes, but i slowly ground every opponent hopelessly to death.
it was truly awful. there was nothing anyone could do about it.
my control priest normally fairs pretty well against control pally
your heals are limited, I can heal foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
i have people on the board
+3
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
i built control paladin because i needed to run some paladin dailies and i heard it was good.
i won 5 straight games against miracle rogue, control warrior, ramp druid, priest, and something else.
every game took ten fucking minutes, but i slowly ground every opponent hopelessly to death.
it was truly awful. there was nothing anyone could do about it.
my control priest normally fairs pretty well against control pally
your heals are limited, I can heal foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
i have people on the board
so do I? blademasters/cultists/auchenais/arguses/stalagg/feugen/sludge belcher is a pretty strong midgame, the Priest just has to not let him get too much equality value
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited September 2014
priest thoughtsteals double wrath on the turn it'll get him exactly enough damage to kill my ancient of war
not that it was a good trade anyway but it was just so perfect
i built control paladin because i needed to run some paladin dailies and i heard it was good.
i won 5 straight games against miracle rogue, control warrior, ramp druid, priest, and something else.
every game took ten fucking minutes, but i slowly ground every opponent hopelessly to death.
it was truly awful. there was nothing anyone could do about it.
my control priest normally fairs pretty well against control pally
your heals are limited, I can heal foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
i have people on the board
so do I? blademasters/cultists/auchenais/arguses/stalagg/feugen/sludge belcher is a pretty strong midgame, the Priest just has to not let him get too much equality value
i mean i was just drawing a parallel between your claims of healing forever
if you're healing forever with your hero power i'm farting out 1/1s with my hero power
i was drawing an equivalency there, is what i was doing, you see, with the hero powers
Aaaaargh, I hate how people still think Tundra Rhino isn't a good card. It's a card that will flat-out win you the game if it sticks, and it's actually kind of hard to kill when dropped on curve without using up the removal you wanted to use on the Highmane. I mean, really: You drop it on turn five, do two damage or knock off a weenie, and then your either get a charging Highmane next turn or they just burned their removal the turn before your highmane. It's a win-win, with the earlier being a massive win.
Everyone really undervalues charge-givers and I have no idea why. The old refrain in magic "this card would be good if it had haste" does extend here, too; the same reason Rag is so good--you get instant value out of it. Tundra Rhino lets you get instant value out of all your beasts, and that is such a big thing when most beasts are fragile and often won't survive very long if just plopped down.
Oh, and the Rhino makes the Hyena an absolute monster if you have some weenies to drop with it (webspinners and creepers and whatnot), because you put down the hyena, sack some weenie beasts, and instantly hit for a lots of damage. It's a good card, guys. Really.
Rhino just has poor stats for the cost, which is why it gets bumped. The ability maaaaybe saves it, but it has to account for a really significant amount of stat loss, and it's situational. The number of times it gives you the out of control Hyena turn or the charging Highmane will likely be outnumbered by the times it comes out as a charging 2/5 and is then killed on your opponent's turn by a more efficient creature and/or a piece of removal they didn't want to pop Highmane with anyway.
It can be great, but it's unreliable, and people usually like to run reliable cards that are good rather than unreliable cards that can be great.
With Love and Courage
+1
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
i built control paladin because i needed to run some paladin dailies and i heard it was good.
i won 5 straight games against miracle rogue, control warrior, ramp druid, priest, and something else.
every game took ten fucking minutes, but i slowly ground every opponent hopelessly to death.
it was truly awful. there was nothing anyone could do about it.
my control priest normally fairs pretty well against control pally
your heals are limited, I can heal foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
i have people on the board
so do I? blademasters/cultists/auchenais/arguses/stalagg/feugen/sludge belcher is a pretty strong midgame, the Priest just has to not let him get too much equality value
i mean i was just drawing a parallel between your claims of healing forever
if you're healing forever with your hero power i'm farting out 1/1s with my hero power
i was drawing an equivalency there, is what i was doing, you see, with the hero powers
My experience is that control priest vs. control paladin takes ages and more often than not comes down to who gets a better draw order.
They're both super solid decks, though.
Broke down and bought some more packs today, got enough dust to craft Tirion and Ysera as well as the other cards I needed for control paladin. Can't wait to play it tomorrow!
Aaaaargh, I hate how people still think Tundra Rhino isn't a good card. It's a card that will flat-out win you the game if it sticks, and it's actually kind of hard to kill when dropped on curve without using up the removal you wanted to use on the Highmane. I mean, really: You drop it on turn five, do two damage or knock off a weenie, and then your either get a charging Highmane next turn or they just burned their removal the turn before your highmane. It's a win-win, with the earlier being a massive win.
Everyone really undervalues charge-givers and I have no idea why. The old refrain in magic "this card would be good if it had haste" does extend here, too; the same reason Rag is so good--you get instant value out of it. Tundra Rhino lets you get instant value out of all your beasts, and that is such a big thing when most beasts are fragile and often won't survive very long if just plopped down.
Oh, and the Rhino makes the Hyena an absolute monster if you have some weenies to drop with it (webspinners and creepers and whatnot), because you put down the hyena, sack some weenie beasts, and instantly hit for a lots of damage. It's a good card, guys. Really.
Agreed. I don't see Rhino much in contstructed but pretty much every time I see it in arena it destroys me
Hahaha, kibler just had 2 mana tide totems out for 3 or 4 turns. Now he's yelling at the chat for shit talking him for having 2 mana tides in his deck.
Aaaaargh, I hate how people still think Tundra Rhino isn't a good card. It's a card that will flat-out win you the game if it sticks, and it's actually kind of hard to kill when dropped on curve without using up the removal you wanted to use on the Highmane. I mean, really: You drop it on turn five, do two damage or knock off a weenie, and then your either get a charging Highmane next turn or they just burned their removal the turn before your highmane. It's a win-win, with the earlier being a massive win.
Everyone really undervalues charge-givers and I have no idea why. The old refrain in magic "this card would be good if it had haste" does extend here, too; the same reason Rag is so good--you get instant value out of it. Tundra Rhino lets you get instant value out of all your beasts, and that is such a big thing when most beasts are fragile and often won't survive very long if just plopped down.
Oh, and the Rhino makes the Hyena an absolute monster if you have some weenies to drop with it (webspinners and creepers and whatnot), because you put down the hyena, sack some weenie beasts, and instantly hit for a lots of damage. It's a good card, guys. Really.
Rhino just has poor stats for the cost, which is why it gets bumped. The ability maaaaybe saves it, but it has to account for a really significant amount of stat loss, and it's situational. The number of times it gives you the out of control Hyena turn or the charging Highmane will likely be outnumbered by the times it comes out as a charging 2/5 and is then killed on your opponent's turn by a more efficient creature and/or a piece of removal they didn't want to pop Highmane with anyway.
It can be great, but it's unreliable, and people usually like to run reliable cards that are good rather than unreliable cards that can be great.
It's also too expensive to combo with in one turn. At least with Warsong Commander you can theoretically use it with a berserker or whatever.
I'm being pleasantly surprised at the effectiveness of Rivendare. He's absolutely vicious on turn 4 if you've got the deck to support him.
I still hold my opinion that Undertaker is broken. If the other player does not have the removal or silence for him immediately, he just wrecks the board and/or face. i've had multiple games now where my 'taker smashes their 4 drop, and sticks around to kill their 5 drop. The value is just insane.
I'm being pleasantly surprised at the effectiveness of Rivendare. He's absolutely vicious on turn 4 if you've got the deck to support him.
I still hold my opinion that Undertaker is broken. If the other player does not have the removal or silence for him immediately, he just wrecks the board and/or face. i've had multiple games now where my 'taker smashes their 4 drop, and sticks around to kill their 5 drop. The value is just insane.
If you can buff it from turn 1 it's ridiculous, but it's not that useful if you pull him later. They could decrease it to 1/1, but I don't think it would be played at all if it were 2 mana, like Questing Adventurer is 1 mana above his stats.
Happiness is within reach!
0
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
So I'm about to be at 1600 dust again and am thinking about crafting my next legendary. In reading this thread, it seems like the prevailing thought is Sylvanas? I currently have:
Leeroy
Cairne
Mukla
Grom
Malygos edit: I knew that spelling had looked wrong
VanCleef
Nozdormu
Naxx-legends
Posts
Compare Webspinner to Northshire Cleric or Void Walker, etc. Beast cards feel weaker because they're Beasts, unless they're comboed with something. Obviously Snapjaw Turtle + Houndmaster is excellent, and Savannah Highmane is an Epic/Legendary in disguise, so there are some good examples. I just don't like having to draw, then combo cards to get expected value.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Sounds like you'd enjoy Priest more than anything, I think.
And indeed, I do tend to gravitate that way. I recognize that not every strat is going to work with every class, but as a longtime Hunter player in WoW I do wish my favorite class was more in line with my preferences. I'm happy enough playing Priest or Controllior in the meantime.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Everyone really undervalues charge-givers and I have no idea why. The old refrain in magic "this card would be good if it had haste" does extend here, too; the same reason Rag is so good--you get instant value out of it. Tundra Rhino lets you get instant value out of all your beasts, and that is such a big thing when most beasts are fragile and often won't survive very long if just plopped down.
Oh, and the Rhino makes the Hyena an absolute monster if you have some weenies to drop with it (webspinners and creepers and whatnot), because you put down the hyena, sack some weenie beasts, and instantly hit for a lots of damage. It's a good card, guys. Really.
Leeroy
Cairne
Mukla
Grom
Malygos edit: I knew that spelling had looked wrong
VanCleef
Nozdormu
Naxx-legends
It's not a bad card, it's just sort of situational so it gets bumped in favor of other cards.
But you may be right, it might be time to start rotating it back in.
So I think either Sylvanas or Black Knight.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Ragnaros, Sylvanas, or Ysera are all good crafts if you don't have them. Consider dusting Leeroy and using the 1600 dust from that plus your other 1600 dust to make 2 of the 3 (Rag and Sylvanas imo).
He's still complete bullshit.
Just doesn't smell as bad as before.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/blog/15977182/
ed: I'll get it anyways since I play like 3 of their 4 games n stuffs
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
blah
Not necessarily (although it did fuck Miracle Rogue pretty hard and weaken one of Handlock's finishing combos), but it's a good opportunity to switch him to another legendary if you find you're not really using him, as I found.
When he played it, the mana cost was 2, but it was green as if it were discounted for some reason
Buggy I guess.
So I am torn about dusting him, since while I do not play Miracle he is still a decent finisher in most decks.
Two turns later he thoughtsteals and gets 2x druid of the claw. I concede when I see the second one drop.
1 mana won't change that
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
I think they're mostly okay with 6-card, 10-mana combos for 24+ damage. Even in your example that means they had to not use one of their Preparations for draw with Auctioneer earlier than turn 10. Plus, the more Cold Bloods and Sinister Strikes that go in the deck mean less room for things like Earthen Rings or Sludge Belchers to try and survive until turn 10. They don't seem to want to kill the concept of Miracle Rogue, they just wanted to slow it down by a turn or two.
-1st Thoughtsteal hits Cairne
-Cabal Shadow Priest a Armorsmith, to give me 6 armor cushion against Alex (which he plays 2 turns later)
-Play my own Cairne
-2nd Thoughsteal hits Cairne again
-He copies that Cairne with Faceless Manipulator, which I then Mind Control
I ended the game with three unkilled Cairnes on the field
I, in return, killed his KT with a +5 frostbolt and then killed him with a +5 fireball. I really like Malygos.
i won 5 straight games against miracle rogue, control warrior, ramp druid, priest, and something else.
every game took ten fucking minutes, but i slowly ground every opponent hopelessly to death.
it was truly awful. there was nothing anyone could do about it.
my control priest normally fairs pretty well against control pally
your heals are limited, I can heal foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
i have people on the board
so do I? blademasters/cultists/auchenais/arguses/stalagg/feugen/sludge belcher is a pretty strong midgame, the Priest just has to not let him get too much equality value
not that it was a good trade anyway but it was just so perfect
edit - gaara playing a hunter, very different
i mean i was just drawing a parallel between your claims of healing forever
if you're healing forever with your hero power i'm farting out 1/1s with my hero power
i was drawing an equivalency there, is what i was doing, you see, with the hero powers
Rhino just has poor stats for the cost, which is why it gets bumped. The ability maaaaybe saves it, but it has to account for a really significant amount of stat loss, and it's situational. The number of times it gives you the out of control Hyena turn or the charging Highmane will likely be outnumbered by the times it comes out as a charging 2/5 and is then killed on your opponent's turn by a more efficient creature and/or a piece of removal they didn't want to pop Highmane with anyway.
It can be great, but it's unreliable, and people usually like to run reliable cards that are good rather than unreliable cards that can be great.
My experience is that control priest vs. control paladin takes ages and more often than not comes down to who gets a better draw order.
They're both super solid decks, though.
Broke down and bought some more packs today, got enough dust to craft Tirion and Ysera as well as the other cards I needed for control paladin. Can't wait to play it tomorrow!
Agreed. I don't see Rhino much in contstructed but pretty much every time I see it in arena it destroys me
I still hold my opinion that Undertaker is broken. If the other player does not have the removal or silence for him immediately, he just wrecks the board and/or face. i've had multiple games now where my 'taker smashes their 4 drop, and sticks around to kill their 5 drop. The value is just insane.
I would craft Rag and Alex before Sylv.