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So, I might want to slowly return to this hobby.
I haven't really played since third edition and have small Space Marines, Orks and Tau armies.
I would love to build up a mixed Raven Guard and Salamanders force, as Hammer and anvil respectively.
Is that possible?
So far I only have the newest SM Codex and don't really understand the force composition stuff, yet.
The 1,000 space marine thing always struck me as silly in a setting as big as 40k.
Like, 1,000 people isn't enough to take a planet. Let alone a system. I know that generally they work in concert with other imperial agencies but then that really restricts their flexibility and response time.
Not people, Space Marines!
Idk, it kinda adds to the silly fun that is Warhammer.
Also remember that most chapters have a lot of brother chapters that are basically the same thing but under a slightly different flag to game this system. Also the space marines have a lot of auxillary people to do a lot of the grunt work/tech/logistic stuff the marines themselves are dedicated to their flavor of war. They are either dropped in small groups to take specific hard objectives or as a precision hammer in larger scale situations with imperial guards doing the grunt work.
Also I believe if they are actively on crusade they can recruit past that 1000 number which is how that one group black templars I think get around being gigantic chapter wise simply because they are perpetually "on crusade".
So, I might want to slowly return to this hobby.
I haven't really played since third edition and have small Space Marines, Orks and Tau armies.
I would love to build up a mixed Raven Guard and Salamanders force, as Hammer and anvil respectively.
Is that possible?
So far I only have the newest SM Codex and don't really understand the force composition stuff, yet.
Right, so, the key thing is that a given Detachment can only use one set of Chapter Tactics so if you want to roll black and green you need two Detachments.
Detachments are anything from the familiar 2xHQ, 6xTroops, 3xElites, 3xFA, 3xHS that's been the primary organisation since 3rd edition, through less familiar and wholly unique variations found in codexes, to special Formations that typically have only a few units but grant extr special rules.
You can assemble as many of these as you can fit in your points cost and call it an army.
That's the basic composition: pick a Detachment, pick units to be in it, add it all up, and if you have the points start again with another Detachment. Detachments and Formations can be found in all sorts of places, but faction-specific ones will generally be in the faction's codex.
Also remember that most chapters have a lot of brother chapters that are basically the same thing but under a slightly different flag to game this system.
People were talking about this a page or so back, and I wasn't really clear what they were referring to. The legions were split up into chapters, and the offshoots are naturally still pretty buddy-buddy with their progenitor chapters. Is this gaming the system in some way? I thought they just didn't want all those guys under one commander and sharing the same facilities, to avoid having a few hundred thousand Marines defecting all at once again.
So, I might want to slowly return to this hobby.
I haven't really played since third edition and have small Space Marines, Orks and Tau armies.
I would love to build up a mixed Raven Guard and Salamanders force, as Hammer and anvil respectively.
Is that possible?
So far I only have the newest SM Codex and don't really understand the force composition stuff, yet.
Right, so, the key thing is that a given Detachment can only use one set of Chapter Tactics so if you want to roll black and green you need two Detachments.
Detachments are anything from the familiar 2xHQ, 6xTroops, 3xElites, 3xFA, 3xHS that's been the primary organisation since 3rd edition, through less familiar and wholly unique variations found in codexes, to special Formations that typically have only a few units but grant extr special rules.
You can assemble as many of these as you can fit in your points cost and call it an army.
That's the basic composition: pick a Detachment, pick units to be in it, add it all up, and if you have the points start again with another Detachment. Detachments and Formations can be found in all sorts of places, but faction-specific ones will generally be in the faction's codex.
Yea, so the simplest, most familiar, way to get what you want, Haphazard, is taking the standard CAD (1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 Elites, 0-3 FA, 0-3 HS) for the Raven Guard and then either a second CAD or an Allied Detachment (1 HQ, 1-2 Troops, 0-1 Elites, 0-1 FA, 0-1 HS) of the Salamanders.
Both of those detachments are described in the core rulebook and their special benefit is making Troops better at securing objectives. It would be standard 40k as you know it with the units you want.
Alternatively, to embrace the new system, check out the formations in the SM Codex and various SM supplements. Space Marines get a lot of formations and there are some incredibly good ones. Many are very fluffy, many are very competitive and several are actually both. Because as much as I'm annoyed by how crazy OP the Skyhammer Annhilation formation is, I have to admit it's really perfect for how Space Marines should fight.
+1
Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
The changed with army building were a weird thing that took a while to get used to as someone who dropped out very early in 5th ed.
The big key word is Detachments. Essentially in your army you have your units organized into a detachment.
A Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) is the basic FoC with the same minimums (1hq, 2 troops) that you'll be familiar with. As it is now its basically a generic detachment type that all armies have access to, and grants a reroll on the rulebook warlord trait charts, and gives your troop units Objective Secured, which essentially grants them priority when holding objectives over other unit types.
Other armies occasionally have their own versions of the basic FoC. These usually trade Objective Secured for other bonuses, and often have unit maximums and minimums shifted around; for example the Dark Eldar Realspace Raiders detachment requires a compulsory Fast Attack choice in addition to the usual minimums, plus another two FA slots in addition to the regular allocation, and grants extra cover saves during the first turn. Of special note is that some armies such as the Harlequins and Skitarii lack HQ units and thus must use their own FoC (or formations) instead of a CAD.
A very big change is that you are not limited to a single detachment for your army. You can, if you wished, take two separate CADs, or more commonly an Allied detachment, which is essentially a cut down CAD (1hq 1 troop min) with the limitation that allied characters cannot be your warlord. They don't need to be from one faction either, but there are rules as to how two different factions work in a single army, though its not necessary to go into as imperials may as well count as the same faction.
And then there are formations. These are essentially a very specific collection of units that gain special rules. There are two main categories to keep in mind.
First there are standalone formations. Essentially these can be taken as a detachment of their own, and in some cases can be your entire army. To take an example from the SM book, the Battle Demi Company is a standalone detachment. It consists of a single captain or chaplain, Three tactical squads, a devastator squad (regular or centurion), and one assault (jump or centurion) OR Bike OR landspeeder squadron, with an optional Dreadnought and command squad. For taking this detachment everything, not just troops, gain Objective Secured, and once per game you can enact the Tactical Doctrine as per Ultramarines. The tradeoff being that you're taking very specific units for these benefits.
The second main category are what have come to be known as Decurion-style formations. It is, essentially, an overarching FoC consisting of formations you take as a single army that grants even more special rules on top of what's already there. Formations are categorized into Core, Command, and Auxiliary. In most cases Decurions are 1-2 Core formations, 0-3 Command formations, and 1+ Auxiliary formations. Of note Decurions may also have formation elements that cannot be taken as a standalone detachment. An example of the Salamanders Flameblade Strike Force from Angels of Death; it can consist of one Battle Demi Company (as above) as its core and the auxiliary formation Flamebringers (essentially a single land raider, can't be taken alone), all units in these formations gain +1 strength to their flamer shots and count as fearless during turns they did not move in their movement phase on top of the normal benefits.
This isn't even getting into some of the cases that mix formations and FoCs (some of the combined admech formations do it). Or Unbound (which we will ignore the existence of).
In the case of RG and Salamanders you can't have them in the same detachment, but nothing's stopping you from having two detachments. A good idea might be having one army be a CAD while the other is a standalone formation.
So, I might want to slowly return to this hobby.
I haven't really played since third edition and have small Space Marines, Orks and Tau armies.
I would love to build up a mixed Raven Guard and Salamanders force, as Hammer and anvil respectively.
Is that possible?
So far I only have the newest SM Codex and don't really understand the force composition stuff, yet.
The TLDR is yes, you can. At a basic Level, take a Combined Arms Detachment of one, then take an Allied Detachment of the other. Done! Space bros. But as others have said (See Waffle above), provided you take two detachments and make one Salamanders and one Raven Guard you're good.
Also remember that most chapters have a lot of brother chapters that are basically the same thing but under a slightly different flag to game this system.
People were talking about this a page or so back, and I wasn't really clear what they were referring to. The legions were split up into chapters, and the offshoots are naturally still pretty buddy-buddy with their progenitor chapters. Is this gaming the system in some way? I thought they just didn't want all those guys under one commander and sharing the same facilities, to avoid having a few hundred thousand Marines defecting all at once again.
It's totally gaming the system.
The Dark Angels are a legion in all but name, considering how closely they work with their successor chapters.
The Black Templars are on a perpetual crusade. Each crusade arm recruits as it goes from worlds they liberate so no one can really keep a track of how many there (deffo over 1000).
The Blood Angels and their successor chapters are also pretty tight as only a good working relationship between them all makes them able to cover up the flaw in their gene seed. They routinely come to each others aide and in recent development the successor chapters even gave the Blood Angels some of their own recruits to replenish man power.
On the flip side, the successor chapters of the ultramarines are strict adherents of the Codex Astartes and would never dream of overstepping any kind of boundary laid out by the Codex.
0
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Also remember that most chapters have a lot of brother chapters that are basically the same thing but under a slightly different flag to game this system.
People were talking about this a page or so back, and I wasn't really clear what they were referring to. The legions were split up into chapters, and the offshoots are naturally still pretty buddy-buddy with their progenitor chapters. Is this gaming the system in some way? I thought they just didn't want all those guys under one commander and sharing the same facilities, to avoid having a few hundred thousand Marines defecting all at once again.
It's totally gaming the system.
The Dark Angels are a legion in all but name, considering how closely they work with their successor chapters.
The Black Templars are on a perpetual crusade. Each crusade arm recruits as it goes from worlds they liberate so no one can really keep a track of how many there (deffo over 1000).
The Blood Angels and their successor chapters are also pretty tight as only a good working relationship between them all makes them able to cover up the flaw in their gene seed. They routinely come to each others aide and in recent development the successor chapters even gave the Blood Angels some of their own recruits to replenish man power.
On the flip side, the successor chapters of the ultramarines are strict adherents of the Codex Astartes and would never dream of overstepping any kind of boundary laid out by the Codex.
There was that one time that the Ultramarines and all of their successor chapters went after the Night Lords.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
0
Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
That's all the best ones I think, but detachments and formations are sprinkled around everywhere - for example all the Start Collecting! bundles come with a formation so you can play immediately with the oddball collection of units they contain, every campaign book has a bunch, etc.
But yea you've definitely got all you need to make fluffy and killer forces.
The Firespear Strike Force from the Space Marine Start Collecting box is pretty interesting. Basically one unit from the box that is within 12" of the Captain and the beginning of your turn can fire instead of move in the movement phase, then fire again normally during the shooting phase.
If you threw two twin linked autocannon arms on the Venerable Dreadnought and parked it and the Captain on an objective you could be throwing a fairly hefty amount of dakka out at anyone who tried to approach you.
Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
My sister finally got to play her Emperor's Children in a 1000pt game today.
I did a simple Salamanders CAD against a Rapture Battalion/kakophoni.
Space Drugs are good. The Warlord Trait that gets you 3+ FnP on the warlord and their squad is good. Shred on sonic weapons is good.
She shot me to hell and killed all but my characters and two separate demi-squads. I basically eked out a win because of some really bad rolls on her last turns that allowed me to melta a noise marine squad off of an objective.
But heck, blastmasters might be worth the premium you're paying for them.
Finished a 40k tournament today. Spent the night painting the last bits and got no sleep, skipped the lunch break to finish a round, and played nonstop from 10am to about 8pm against some of the most hideous lists imaginable. I think I've gotten all the Warhammer out of my system for at least a week.
Yeah, the few times I've had to deal with noisemarines and blasters, they always rock my socks. Ignore cover mini-battlecannons don't screw around.
0
WarcryI'm getting my shit pushed in here!AustraliaRegistered Userregular
I've never had much luck with Blastmasters because when they scatter, they usually miss completely due to it being a small blast. But when they hit, holy shit they do damage.
Also remember that most chapters have a lot of brother chapters that are basically the same thing but under a slightly different flag to game this system.
People were talking about this a page or so back, and I wasn't really clear what they were referring to. The legions were split up into chapters, and the offshoots are naturally still pretty buddy-buddy with their progenitor chapters. Is this gaming the system in some way? I thought they just didn't want all those guys under one commander and sharing the same facilities, to avoid having a few hundred thousand Marines defecting all at once again.
Basically things like blood angels have successor related chapters such as angels encarmine, angels numinous so on and so forth. Most major chapters have some successors as well that share a lot of the same basic traits/history/tactics and often homeworld. So while they are technically different chapters with different leaders it is pretty common for these related chapters to work pretty closely with others.
It's almost like the Codex Astartes doesn't work in practicality and was a terrible idea.
"I know dad wrote this 10,000 years ago, but fucking hell, he didn't have to deal with Tyranids back then!"
Also remember that most chapters have a lot of brother chapters that are basically the same thing but under a slightly different flag to game this system.
People were talking about this a page or so back, and I wasn't really clear what they were referring to. The legions were split up into chapters, and the offshoots are naturally still pretty buddy-buddy with their progenitor chapters. Is this gaming the system in some way? I thought they just didn't want all those guys under one commander and sharing the same facilities, to avoid having a few hundred thousand Marines defecting all at once again.
Basically things like blood angels have successor related chapters such as angels encarmine, angels numinous so on and so forth. Most major chapters have some successors as well that share a lot of the same basic traits/history/tactics and often homeworld. So while they are technically different chapters with different leaders it is pretty common for these related chapters to work pretty closely with others.
Ya. I'm just wondering what the basis is for the idea that successor chapters aren't supposed to work closely with their primogenitor chapters. Is this something that came up in one of the Black Library works, or a new codex?
Also remember that most chapters have a lot of brother chapters that are basically the same thing but under a slightly different flag to game this system.
People were talking about this a page or so back, and I wasn't really clear what they were referring to. The legions were split up into chapters, and the offshoots are naturally still pretty buddy-buddy with their progenitor chapters. Is this gaming the system in some way? I thought they just didn't want all those guys under one commander and sharing the same facilities, to avoid having a few hundred thousand Marines defecting all at once again.
Basically things like blood angels have successor related chapters such as angels encarmine, angels numinous so on and so forth. Most major chapters have some successors as well that share a lot of the same basic traits/history/tactics and often homeworld. So while they are technically different chapters with different leaders it is pretty common for these related chapters to work pretty closely with others.
Ya. I'm just wondering what the basis is for the idea that successor chapters aren't supposed to work closely with their primogenitor chapters. Is this something that came up in one of the Black Library works, or a new codex?
Its been a thing since at least 2nd edition. I remember the Dark Angel's codex mentioning their successors being so close to each other was considered odd by the rest of the Imperium
+1
H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Also remember that most chapters have a lot of brother chapters that are basically the same thing but under a slightly different flag to game this system.
People were talking about this a page or so back, and I wasn't really clear what they were referring to. The legions were split up into chapters, and the offshoots are naturally still pretty buddy-buddy with their progenitor chapters. Is this gaming the system in some way? I thought they just didn't want all those guys under one commander and sharing the same facilities, to avoid having a few hundred thousand Marines defecting all at once again.
Basically things like blood angels have successor related chapters such as angels encarmine, angels numinous so on and so forth. Most major chapters have some successors as well that share a lot of the same basic traits/history/tactics and often homeworld. So while they are technically different chapters with different leaders it is pretty common for these related chapters to work pretty closely with others.
Ya. I'm just wondering what the basis is for the idea that successor chapters aren't supposed to work closely with their primogenitor chapters. Is this something that came up in one of the Black Library works, or a new codex?
Its been a thing since at least 2nd edition. I remember the Dark Angel's codex mentioning their successors being so close to each other was considered odd by the rest of the Imperium
Ha, that phrasing makes it sound like they're committing incest.
The issue, @Orogogus, is that having such close working relationships means if one chapter gets corrupted or goes rogue, it's unlikely the others won't follow suit, or be split against themselves over it. It defeats the purpose of breaking the legions up if there isn't enough of a separation to actually protect against mass defections or betrayals.
Yeah, the whole idea was to decentralize marine legions so if they did go bonkers again, it would only be a chapter at a time. That totally flies out the window if you have 8 genesis chapters that are totally BFFs and always do whatever their progenitor chapter(legion) says.
Also remember that most chapters have a lot of brother chapters that are basically the same thing but under a slightly different flag to game this system.
People were talking about this a page or so back, and I wasn't really clear what they were referring to. The legions were split up into chapters, and the offshoots are naturally still pretty buddy-buddy with their progenitor chapters. Is this gaming the system in some way? I thought they just didn't want all those guys under one commander and sharing the same facilities, to avoid having a few hundred thousand Marines defecting all at once again.
Basically things like blood angels have successor related chapters such as angels encarmine, angels numinous so on and so forth. Most major chapters have some successors as well that share a lot of the same basic traits/history/tactics and often homeworld. So while they are technically different chapters with different leaders it is pretty common for these related chapters to work pretty closely with others.
Ya. I'm just wondering what the basis is for the idea that successor chapters aren't supposed to work closely with their primogenitor chapters. Is this something that came up in one of the Black Library works, or a new codex?
Its been a thing since at least 2nd edition. I remember the Dark Angel's codex mentioning their successors being so close to each other was considered odd by the rest of the Imperium
Ya, but I'm pretty sure that's part of their hunt for the Fallen, and the way they abandon military objectives en masse in concert, or blow up Imperial ships. The Fallen deal would totally not be okay with the Imperium if they knew about it. The Dark Angels and their successors' thing is all about being kind of shady.
The issue, @Orogogus, is that having such close working relationships means if one chapter gets corrupted or goes rogue, it's unlikely the others won't follow suit, or be split against themselves over it. It defeats the purpose of breaking the legions up if there isn't enough of a separation to actually protect against mass defections or betrayals.
Realistically, that's not going to happen except with the Dark Angels. It seems odd that people are getting worked up over something that doesn't seem to be an issue in the fiction.
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I haven't really played since third edition and have small Space Marines, Orks and Tau armies.
I would love to build up a mixed Raven Guard and Salamanders force, as Hammer and anvil respectively.
Is that possible?
So far I only have the newest SM Codex and don't really understand the force composition stuff, yet.
Also remember that most chapters have a lot of brother chapters that are basically the same thing but under a slightly different flag to game this system. Also the space marines have a lot of auxillary people to do a lot of the grunt work/tech/logistic stuff the marines themselves are dedicated to their flavor of war. They are either dropped in small groups to take specific hard objectives or as a precision hammer in larger scale situations with imperial guards doing the grunt work.
Also I believe if they are actively on crusade they can recruit past that 1000 number which is how that one group black templars I think get around being gigantic chapter wise simply because they are perpetually "on crusade".
Right, so, the key thing is that a given Detachment can only use one set of Chapter Tactics so if you want to roll black and green you need two Detachments.
Detachments are anything from the familiar 2xHQ, 6xTroops, 3xElites, 3xFA, 3xHS that's been the primary organisation since 3rd edition, through less familiar and wholly unique variations found in codexes, to special Formations that typically have only a few units but grant extr special rules.
You can assemble as many of these as you can fit in your points cost and call it an army.
That's the basic composition: pick a Detachment, pick units to be in it, add it all up, and if you have the points start again with another Detachment. Detachments and Formations can be found in all sorts of places, but faction-specific ones will generally be in the faction's codex.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
People were talking about this a page or so back, and I wasn't really clear what they were referring to. The legions were split up into chapters, and the offshoots are naturally still pretty buddy-buddy with their progenitor chapters. Is this gaming the system in some way? I thought they just didn't want all those guys under one commander and sharing the same facilities, to avoid having a few hundred thousand Marines defecting all at once again.
Yea, so the simplest, most familiar, way to get what you want, Haphazard, is taking the standard CAD (1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 Elites, 0-3 FA, 0-3 HS) for the Raven Guard and then either a second CAD or an Allied Detachment (1 HQ, 1-2 Troops, 0-1 Elites, 0-1 FA, 0-1 HS) of the Salamanders.
Both of those detachments are described in the core rulebook and their special benefit is making Troops better at securing objectives. It would be standard 40k as you know it with the units you want.
Alternatively, to embrace the new system, check out the formations in the SM Codex and various SM supplements. Space Marines get a lot of formations and there are some incredibly good ones. Many are very fluffy, many are very competitive and several are actually both. Because as much as I'm annoyed by how crazy OP the Skyhammer Annhilation formation is, I have to admit it's really perfect for how Space Marines should fight.
The big key word is Detachments. Essentially in your army you have your units organized into a detachment.
A Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) is the basic FoC with the same minimums (1hq, 2 troops) that you'll be familiar with. As it is now its basically a generic detachment type that all armies have access to, and grants a reroll on the rulebook warlord trait charts, and gives your troop units Objective Secured, which essentially grants them priority when holding objectives over other unit types.
Other armies occasionally have their own versions of the basic FoC. These usually trade Objective Secured for other bonuses, and often have unit maximums and minimums shifted around; for example the Dark Eldar Realspace Raiders detachment requires a compulsory Fast Attack choice in addition to the usual minimums, plus another two FA slots in addition to the regular allocation, and grants extra cover saves during the first turn. Of special note is that some armies such as the Harlequins and Skitarii lack HQ units and thus must use their own FoC (or formations) instead of a CAD.
A very big change is that you are not limited to a single detachment for your army. You can, if you wished, take two separate CADs, or more commonly an Allied detachment, which is essentially a cut down CAD (1hq 1 troop min) with the limitation that allied characters cannot be your warlord. They don't need to be from one faction either, but there are rules as to how two different factions work in a single army, though its not necessary to go into as imperials may as well count as the same faction.
And then there are formations. These are essentially a very specific collection of units that gain special rules. There are two main categories to keep in mind.
First there are standalone formations. Essentially these can be taken as a detachment of their own, and in some cases can be your entire army. To take an example from the SM book, the Battle Demi Company is a standalone detachment. It consists of a single captain or chaplain, Three tactical squads, a devastator squad (regular or centurion), and one assault (jump or centurion) OR Bike OR landspeeder squadron, with an optional Dreadnought and command squad. For taking this detachment everything, not just troops, gain Objective Secured, and once per game you can enact the Tactical Doctrine as per Ultramarines. The tradeoff being that you're taking very specific units for these benefits.
The second main category are what have come to be known as Decurion-style formations. It is, essentially, an overarching FoC consisting of formations you take as a single army that grants even more special rules on top of what's already there. Formations are categorized into Core, Command, and Auxiliary. In most cases Decurions are 1-2 Core formations, 0-3 Command formations, and 1+ Auxiliary formations. Of note Decurions may also have formation elements that cannot be taken as a standalone detachment. An example of the Salamanders Flameblade Strike Force from Angels of Death; it can consist of one Battle Demi Company (as above) as its core and the auxiliary formation Flamebringers (essentially a single land raider, can't be taken alone), all units in these formations gain +1 strength to their flamer shots and count as fearless during turns they did not move in their movement phase on top of the normal benefits.
This isn't even getting into some of the cases that mix formations and FoCs (some of the combined admech formations do it). Or Unbound (which we will ignore the existence of).
In the case of RG and Salamanders you can't have them in the same detachment, but nothing's stopping you from having two detachments. A good idea might be having one army be a CAD while the other is a standalone formation.
The TLDR is yes, you can. At a basic Level, take a Combined Arms Detachment of one, then take an Allied Detachment of the other. Done! Space bros. But as others have said (See Waffle above), provided you take two detachments and make one Salamanders and one Raven Guard you're good.
Also Raven Guard are the best.
I've been giving him all of the beaked helmets I get from Tactical Marine boxes for it since I don't like them.
Man, the op for the new one is going to need a lot of work. So much has changed in 18 months!
...
Shit, I lost the attribution link to the original artist who did the faction icons I used, so what to deal about adding Genestealers and Mechanicum?
Not to mention all the hobby entries need pruning/checking/updating.
Anyone want to step up to the plate?
It's totally gaming the system.
The Dark Angels are a legion in all but name, considering how closely they work with their successor chapters.
The Black Templars are on a perpetual crusade. Each crusade arm recruits as it goes from worlds they liberate so no one can really keep a track of how many there (deffo over 1000).
The Blood Angels and their successor chapters are also pretty tight as only a good working relationship between them all makes them able to cover up the flaw in their gene seed. They routinely come to each others aide and in recent development the successor chapters even gave the Blood Angels some of their own recruits to replenish man power.
On the flip side, the successor chapters of the ultramarines are strict adherents of the Codex Astartes and would never dream of overstepping any kind of boundary laid out by the Codex.
There was that one time that the Ultramarines and all of their successor chapters went after the Night Lords.
The Genesis Chapter are basically their reserves.
But yea you've definitely got all you need to make fluffy and killer forces.
If you threw two twin linked autocannon arms on the Venerable Dreadnought and parked it and the Captain on an objective you could be throwing a fairly hefty amount of dakka out at anyone who tried to approach you.
The trailer makes me want to buy and build a Wraithknight with a sword despite not currently playing the game.
Meanwhile, in Nottingham…
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
I did a simple Salamanders CAD against a Rapture Battalion/kakophoni.
Space Drugs are good. The Warlord Trait that gets you 3+ FnP on the warlord and their squad is good. Shred on sonic weapons is good.
She shot me to hell and killed all but my characters and two separate demi-squads. I basically eked out a win because of some really bad rolls on her last turns that allowed me to melta a noise marine squad off of an objective.
But heck, blastmasters might be worth the premium you're paying for them.
Just a matter of time before I start buying the models again.
Basically things like blood angels have successor related chapters such as angels encarmine, angels numinous so on and so forth. Most major chapters have some successors as well that share a lot of the same basic traits/history/tactics and often homeworld. So while they are technically different chapters with different leaders it is pretty common for these related chapters to work pretty closely with others.
I've never heard of the Genesis chapter but the utter hypocrisy of the situation makes me dislike the ultramarines even more.
"I know dad wrote this 10,000 years ago, but fucking hell, he didn't have to deal with Tyranids back then!"
Ya. I'm just wondering what the basis is for the idea that successor chapters aren't supposed to work closely with their primogenitor chapters. Is this something that came up in one of the Black Library works, or a new codex?
Its been a thing since at least 2nd edition. I remember the Dark Angel's codex mentioning their successors being so close to each other was considered odd by the rest of the Imperium
Ha, that phrasing makes it sound like they're committing incest.
The issue, @Orogogus, is that having such close working relationships means if one chapter gets corrupted or goes rogue, it's unlikely the others won't follow suit, or be split against themselves over it. It defeats the purpose of breaking the legions up if there isn't enough of a separation to actually protect against mass defections or betrayals.
Ya, but I'm pretty sure that's part of their hunt for the Fallen, and the way they abandon military objectives en masse in concert, or blow up Imperial ships. The Fallen deal would totally not be okay with the Imperium if they knew about it. The Dark Angels and their successors' thing is all about being kind of shady.
Realistically, that's not going to happen except with the Dark Angels. It seems odd that people are getting worked up over something that doesn't seem to be an issue in the fiction.