Some of the female stances in destiny are a little bit silly but it is easily the best MMO-ish game in terms of not oversexualizing the female player characters.
I agree with Sarkeesian's overall message but she really needs to actually pick the games that are the worst offenders rather than just going after everything equally. Why go after destiny when there are so many worse examples
(like LoL and Smite)
Basically they should send Sarkeesian to Japan and watch as her mind implodes at all the dating sims and body pillows.
If her complaint was that they sit differently than male character, then sure, that's sort of silly. The option to choose how you sit would be ideal, but I'm willing to believe that the modeling work involved would be better spent on other aspects of the game.
But if her complaint was the no human on earth outside of a calender pinup sits on the ground like that, then yes, I think that is dumb and worthy of complaint.
Just popped back in here to give everyone a heads up about someone being stupid on the internet.
Apparently Anita Sarkeesian gave a talk about women in video games and complained about the way women are depicted in Destiny, because, and I kid you fucking not, they sit differently than the men do.
Professional concern trolls are the goddamn worst. Wish this chick would just get a show on CNN and hang out with nancy grace all day so I could ignore them both in the same place at the same time.
okay
---
When I get home today I'm gonna play through some Weeklies so I can afford a Gjalla or a Hard Light if Xur's got it tomorrow. People should send me a friend invite if they don't already have me on their list, cause wow I really don't super want to run this with randoms.
I have seen plenty of people, male and female, sit that way. My dad has a bad back so he prefers to lay to the side instead of sitting. It's a dumb thing to get riled about when games like Soul Calibur and Dead or Alive exist.
Apparently Anita Sarkeesian gave a talk about women in video games and complained about the way women are depicted in Destiny, because, and I kid you fucking not, they sit differently than the men do.
Don't women sit differently than men in real-life?
Yes and no? I mean, it depends on the people in question and the attire they're wearing. A lady in a skirt is probably more likely to sit with their legs crossed than a woman in jeans, but the same can be said for a dude in a kilt.
Now, in destiny, everyone's wearing pants, so attire doesn't really factor in. I do kind of see her point, though. The male sitting pose is pretty gender neutral. Legs up, arms on knees. Female pose, though, is a bit more sprawled to the side, and looks vaguely reminiscent of the helpless ladies in a Frazetta piece.
A fairly minor quibble, overall, but pointing stuff like that out is kinda what she does.
Apparently Anita Sarkeesian gave a talk about women in video games and complained about the way women are depicted in Destiny, because, and I kid you fucking not, they sit differently than the men do.
Don't women sit differently than men in real-life?
That was the stupidest movement ever. Men sit that way because to not do so involves smashing their own balls between their thighs which (for the benefit of any tumblrfeminists reading this post) I will tell you is about as fun as it sounds.
Regarding Destiny though, I never thought there could be anything that would be declared sexist by Anita in a game where you fly around in spaceships and shoot wizards on the moon, but there you go I guess.
Does anyone want to blitz through a normal mode Vault of Glass at some point? I have done vog a bunch of times, but it has been on hard mode every time, so I think I am the only person left who doesn't have Chatterwhite.
Apparently Anita Sarkeesian gave a talk about women in video games and complained about the way women are depicted in Destiny, because, and I kid you fucking not, they sit differently than the men do.
Don't women sit differently than men in real-life?
That was the stupidest movement ever. Men sit that way because to not do so involves smashing their own balls between their thighs which (for the benefit of any tumblrfeminists reading this post) I will tell you is about as fun as it sounds.
Regarding Destiny though, I never thought there could be anything that would be declared sexist by Anita in a game where you fly around in spaceships and shoot wizards on the moon, but there you go I guess.
Does anyone want to blitz through a normal mode Vault of Glass at some point? I have done vog a bunch of times, but it has been on hard mode every time, so I think I am the only person left who doesn't have Chatterwhite.
1. Guys who sit that spread on a crowded bus or train are assholes. No, I ain't gonna smash my junk, but I can also sit within the bounds of my seat to make room for others and still keep a comfort gap. As a movement, though, it's pretty dumb.
2. I think the sitting thing is a valid observation. I also think it's pretty cool that, in thinking about it, I can't come up with anything else in the game where the genders are treated unequally. So, overall, props Bungie.
3. I would love to hit VoG again. VoG is hella fun.
I don't particularly care that women in Destiny sit differently than the men, I just wish it didn't look stupid. No one fucking sits like that.
Just google 'woman sitting at picnic'. There's like a bajillion* images just like it.
*Bajillion may be a made up number
Of course she's sitting like that. She's wearing a skirt.
This lovely lady isn't:
Ah, but the difference is, the lady in pants has options. She can sit like Leia, or like a Male Guardian, or whatever. Skirt-lady has pretty much the one option if she doesn't want to Sharon Stone it.
And, here's the kicker: Guardians are wearing pants. So, then, why was this particular pose chosen for female guardians only?
The answer, knowing that Bungie are nerds like us, is probably "Slave Leia".
You don't only target the worse things at the exclusion of everything else
Plenty of things deserve criticism even if they aren't awful about a lot of other stuff
I don't really understand why people have a hard time grasping that fact
It isn't as though she's completely ignored those other franchises
I know. but any feminist critique of Destiny should include the observation that compared to it's peers it's actually pretty good at not oversexualizing female characters, otherwise you're being disingenuous.
And I'm not saying she shouldn't criticize Destiny's more overt sexualized female guardian stuff, but from her other works I bet she didn't include the observation that Destiny is obviously trying to do some things better than it's peers. And that means she's more interested in her position that an actual discussion of the game in question.
I don't particularly care that women in Destiny sit differently than the men, I just wish it didn't look stupid. No one fucking sits like that.
Just google 'woman sitting at picnic'. There's like a bajillion* images just like it.
*Bajillion may be a made up number
Of course she's sitting like that. She's wearing a skirt.
This lovely lady isn't:
Ah, but the difference is, the lady in pants has options. She can sit like Leia, or like a Male Guardian, or whatever. Skirt-lady has pretty much the one option if she doesn't want to Sharon Stone it.
And, here's the kicker: Guardians are wearing pants. So, then, why was this particular pose chosen for female guardians only?
The answer, knowing that Bungie are nerds like us, is probably "Slave Leia".
I think it's really unfair to Bungie to make the worst possible assumption like that. That's a very goose move on your part.
Though, I do think this whole debate brings up an opportunity for a new feature come Destiny 2. Give us the ability to choose our emotes during character creation. There's got to be more than two ways to sit, and I'd love to be able to choose how my character dances. Just because I'm an exo robot I have to do the robot dance? That's racist Bungie.
You don't only target the worse things at the exclusion of everything else
Plenty of things deserve criticism even if they aren't awful about a lot of other stuff
I don't really understand why people have a hard time grasping that fact
It isn't as though she's completely ignored those other franchises
I know. but any feminist critique of Destiny should include the observation that compared to it's peers it's actually pretty good at not oversexualizing female characters, otherwise you're being disingenuous.
And I'm not saying she shouldn't criticize Destiny's more overt sexualized female guardian stuff, but from her other works I bet she didn't include the observation that Destiny is obviously trying to do some things better than it's peers. And that means she's more interested in her position that an actual discussion of the game in question.
It doesn't work on a point based system. You don't get a pass if you do more good things than bad. Nor does it completely ruin a game (though this is purely a subjective thing) to have some bad stuff with it.
Unless you're just full on reviewing a game, there isn't really any need to do an entire dialogue about the pluses and minuses of a game in its entirety to point out a single flaw.
Do we go out of our way to vocalized every good thing about the game when we complain the bad stuff in this very thread? No, because it isn't necessary in every single conversation.
I don't particularly care that women in Destiny sit differently than the men, I just wish it didn't look stupid. No one fucking sits like that.
Just google 'woman sitting at picnic'. There's like a bajillion* images just like it.
*Bajillion may be a made up number
Of course she's sitting like that. She's wearing a skirt.
This lovely lady isn't:
Ah, but the difference is, the lady in pants has options. She can sit like Leia, or like a Male Guardian, or whatever. Skirt-lady has pretty much the one option if she doesn't want to Sharon Stone it.
And, here's the kicker: Guardians are wearing pants. So, then, why was this particular pose chosen for female guardians only?
The answer, knowing that Bungie are nerds like us, is probably "Slave Leia".
I think it's really unfair to Bungie to make the worst possible assumption like that. That's a very goose move on your part.
Though, I do think this whole debate brings up an opportunity for a new feature come Destiny 2. Give us the ability to choose our emotes during character creation. There's got to be more than two ways to sit, and I'd love to be able to choose how my character dances. Just because I'm an exo robot I have to do the robot dance? That's racist Bungie.
You don't only target the worse things at the exclusion of everything else
Plenty of things deserve criticism even if they aren't awful about a lot of other stuff
I don't really understand why people have a hard time grasping that fact
It isn't as though she's completely ignored those other franchises
I know. but any feminist critique of Destiny should include the observation that compared to it's peers it's actually pretty good at not oversexualizing female characters, otherwise you're being disingenuous.
And I'm not saying she shouldn't criticize Destiny's more overt sexualized female guardian stuff, but from her other works I bet she didn't include the observation that Destiny is obviously trying to do some things better than it's peers. And that means she's more interested in her position that an actual discussion of the game in question.
It doesn't work on a point based system. You don't get a pass if you do more good things than bad. Nor does it completely ruin a game (though this is purely a subjective thing) to have some bad stuff with it.
Unless you're just full on reviewing a game, there isn't really any need to do an entire dialogue about the pluses and minuses of a game in its entirety to point out a single flaw.
Do we go out of our way to vocalized every good thing about the game when we complain the bad stuff in this very thread? No, because it isn't necessary in every single conversation.
I'm not talking about points or destiny getting a pat on the back for anything. I'm talking about actually looking and destiny and thinking about it's representation of women, rather than just picking out the time the female characters are designated to look sexy and making a montage of that.
And that doesn't mean destiny gets a 'pass'. I agree that the come hither female sitting pose is not cool. But if you're not actually taking the representation of women in Destiny as a whole, then what's the point in even discussing it? Without context it's just meaningless.
Which is my beef with Sarkeesian, she doesn't really discuss a game and it's representation of women as a complex issue. And she's right, in most games it's not. It's archaic shit that doesn't warrant the time to try and analyze anything good about female representation, because often there isn't anything good about it. I think to lump Destiny in that category is intellectually dishonest.
I guess my take is having women sit differently isn't inherently bad, because just like in real life there are differences in how men and women talk, walk, act and carry themselves. To ignore that is to ignore reality. Hell men and women wear the same armor in this game, compete in bloody battles and fight amongst each other equally.
But to not drag this out, I agree the best solution is more control over creating our characters. Simply letting people choose how they want to sit/dance/emote would make everyone happy. I would hope...
I guess my take is having women sit differently isn't inherently bad, because just like in real life there are differences in how men and women talk, walk, act and carry themselves. To ignore that is to ignore reality. Hell men and women wear the same armor in this game, compete in bloody battles and fight amongst each other equally.
But to not drag this out, I agree the best solution is more control over creating our characters. Simply letting people choose how they want to sit/dance/emote would make everyone happy. I would hope...
In this case... yes. Guardians are not "characters", they're "avatars". By only providing one set way to sit/dance/whatever, Bungie is making a statement that "avatars of this gender sit like this", even if that's not their intention. You can't use an argument like "maybe that's just how the character chooses to sit" when they're not characters, though. Agency arguments don't apply.
Thus, by providing a spread of equal options to both genders, it is then the player choosing how the avatar emotes.
And now I'm done talking about sitting.
How 'bout that Crota armor, eh? Why do I have to look like a bug to hit 32?
Maybe bungie should have just made androgynous characters, where the only difference between male and female in the game is the pronoun used to refer to your character.
More news from the Weekly Update:
Most of it is just talking about the new vault companion stuff.
Inferno Control is coming for 1 week on March 3rd. Like Salvage/Doubles/etc, it will be rotated in on different weeks. 6v6 Control, with some changes:
No motion tracker.
Only 1 heavy ammo spawn (2 crates) per game.
Faster capture speed.
Less ways to earn points (Only kills and captures)
I can't wait to get home and just move things between characters and the vault and back again while playing.
Only thing better would be if this feature was bugged and moving a primary weapon from your Titan to the Vault left you with no primary and only your fists.
You don't only target the worse things at the exclusion of everything else
Plenty of things deserve criticism even if they aren't awful about a lot of other stuff
I don't really understand why people have a hard time grasping that fact
It isn't as though she's completely ignored those other franchises
I know. but any feminist critique of Destiny should include the observation that compared to it's peers it's actually pretty good at not oversexualizing female characters, otherwise you're being disingenuous.
And I'm not saying she shouldn't criticize Destiny's more overt sexualized female guardian stuff, but from her other works I bet she didn't include the observation that Destiny is obviously trying to do some things better than it's peers. And that means she's more interested in her position that an actual discussion of the game in question.
It doesn't work on a point based system. You don't get a pass if you do more good things than bad. Nor does it completely ruin a game (though this is purely a subjective thing) to have some bad stuff with it.
Unless you're just full on reviewing a game, there isn't really any need to do an entire dialogue about the pluses and minuses of a game in its entirety to point out a single flaw.
Do we go out of our way to vocalized every good thing about the game when we complain the bad stuff in this very thread? No, because it isn't necessary in every single conversation.
I'm not talking about points or destiny getting a pat on the back for anything. I'm talking about actually looking and destiny and thinking about it's representation of women, rather than just picking out the time the female characters are designated to look sexy and making a montage of that.
And that doesn't mean destiny gets a 'pass'. I agree that the come hither female sitting pose is not cool. But if you're not actually taking the representation of women in Destiny as a whole, then what's the point in even discussing it? Without context it's just meaningless.
Which is my beef with Sarkeesian, she doesn't really discuss a game and it's representation of women as a complex issue. And she's right, in most games it's not. It's archaic shit that doesn't warrant the time to try and analyze anything good about female representation, because often there isn't anything good about it. I think to lump Destiny in that category is intellectually dishonest.
You don't need to take anything as a whole to point out problematic issues. Destiny being on the whole good about female representation (which I'm not even arguing, necessarily) is not a view that is mutually exclusive with "hey this one thing here could use some work."
That's what critique is. It's pointing out flaws. Flaws exist in an of themselves, they don't necessarily need the context of the rest of the game to be valid. It isn't intellectual dishonesty, it is "hey there's this thing about this game that I don't like, for x reason." Nothing else needs to be added to that.
More news from the Weekly Update:
Most of it is just talking about the new vault companion stuff.
Inferno Control is coming for 1 week on March 3rd. Like Salvage/Doubles/etc, it will be rotated in on different weeks. 6v6 Control, with some changes:
No motion tracker.
Only 1 heavy ammo spawn (2 crates) per game.
Faster capture speed.
Less ways to earn points (Only kills and captures)
Sounds like it'll be cool once or twice but without any special incentive to play I don't know if I would bother with the headache of not having a motion tracker.
0
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
The internet is both the best and worse place ever .
Regarding raids, @Brogey is the new addition to Motorboat Kitten. Who is hopping into Sunday Best? Is there someone slated or are we looking to keep it an open rotation? I have friends who might want to sub in once in a while and I know there are people on these boards looking to get a run or two in.
I think @Arteen is the new addition, but even I get a bit confused with all these names at times.
Suros is apparently pretty terrible in PVP now. The SE thread was reporting the same amount of time to kill someone with Mythoclast body shots as to headshot kill with Suros.
What are the reactions to the weapon changes? I didn't notice much different in three matches.
Pulse Rifles are no longer trash-tier. People are saying Red Death and Three Little Words are now top-tier crucible weapons, which is crazy.
Shotguns are way more fun in PvE too. Much more of a risk/reward trade off, versus where they were pretty much just all risk.
Posts
Basically they should send Sarkeesian to Japan and watch as her mind implodes at all the dating sims and body pillows.
But if her complaint was the no human on earth outside of a calender pinup sits on the ground like that, then yes, I think that is dumb and worthy of complaint.
Just google 'woman sitting at picnic'. There's like a bajillion* images just like it.
*Bajillion may be a made up number
okay
---
When I get home today I'm gonna play through some Weeklies so I can afford a Gjalla or a Hard Light if Xur's got it tomorrow. People should send me a friend invite if they don't already have me on their list, cause wow I really don't super want to run this with randoms.
XBL: Torn Hoodie
@hoodiethirteen
Yes and no? I mean, it depends on the people in question and the attire they're wearing. A lady in a skirt is probably more likely to sit with their legs crossed than a woman in jeans, but the same can be said for a dude in a kilt.
Now, in destiny, everyone's wearing pants, so attire doesn't really factor in. I do kind of see her point, though. The male sitting pose is pretty gender neutral. Legs up, arms on knees. Female pose, though, is a bit more sprawled to the side, and looks vaguely reminiscent of the helpless ladies in a Frazetta piece.
A fairly minor quibble, overall, but pointing stuff like that out is kinda what she does.
You don't only target the worse things at the exclusion of everything else
Plenty of things deserve criticism even if they aren't awful about a lot of other stuff
I don't really understand why people have a hard time grasping that fact
It isn't as though she's completely ignored those other franchises
Of course she's sitting like that. She's wearing a skirt.
I mean, this is your female guardian sitting pose:
That was the stupidest movement ever. Men sit that way because to not do so involves smashing their own balls between their thighs which (for the benefit of any tumblrfeminists reading this post) I will tell you is about as fun as it sounds.
Regarding Destiny though, I never thought there could be anything that would be declared sexist by Anita in a game where you fly around in spaceships and shoot wizards on the moon, but there you go I guess.
Does anyone want to blitz through a normal mode Vault of Glass at some point? I have done vog a bunch of times, but it has been on hard mode every time, so I think I am the only person left who doesn't have Chatterwhite.
This lovely lady isn't:
1. Guys who sit that spread on a crowded bus or train are assholes. No, I ain't gonna smash my junk, but I can also sit within the bounds of my seat to make room for others and still keep a comfort gap. As a movement, though, it's pretty dumb.
2. I think the sitting thing is a valid observation. I also think it's pretty cool that, in thinking about it, I can't come up with anything else in the game where the genders are treated unequally. So, overall, props Bungie.
3. I would love to hit VoG again. VoG is hella fun.
Ah, but the difference is, the lady in pants has options. She can sit like Leia, or like a Male Guardian, or whatever. Skirt-lady has pretty much the one option if she doesn't want to Sharon Stone it.
And, here's the kicker: Guardians are wearing pants. So, then, why was this particular pose chosen for female guardians only?
The answer, knowing that Bungie are nerds like us, is probably "Slave Leia".
Not everyone's back / joints are created equal?
It isn't, especially.
But bad things are worthy of critique, even when they're small.
It isn't like she's ruining your video game by pointing out things she finds flawed
Oh I was responding to smokestacks, not muffin. Should've quoted.
I know. but any feminist critique of Destiny should include the observation that compared to it's peers it's actually pretty good at not oversexualizing female characters, otherwise you're being disingenuous.
And I'm not saying she shouldn't criticize Destiny's more overt sexualized female guardian stuff, but from her other works I bet she didn't include the observation that Destiny is obviously trying to do some things better than it's peers. And that means she's more interested in her position that an actual discussion of the game in question.
https://medium.com/@alascii
I think it's really unfair to Bungie to make the worst possible assumption like that. That's a very goose move on your part.
Though, I do think this whole debate brings up an opportunity for a new feature come Destiny 2. Give us the ability to choose our emotes during character creation. There's got to be more than two ways to sit, and I'd love to be able to choose how my character dances. Just because I'm an exo robot I have to do the robot dance? That's racist Bungie.
It doesn't work on a point based system. You don't get a pass if you do more good things than bad. Nor does it completely ruin a game (though this is purely a subjective thing) to have some bad stuff with it.
Unless you're just full on reviewing a game, there isn't really any need to do an entire dialogue about the pluses and minuses of a game in its entirety to point out a single flaw.
Do we go out of our way to vocalized every good thing about the game when we complain the bad stuff in this very thread? No, because it isn't necessary in every single conversation.
Except robot dance is best dance?
Plus also I want it to be my primary dance on all characters
Some kind of dumb that makes my brain hurt just thinking about it.
I'm not talking about points or destiny getting a pat on the back for anything. I'm talking about actually looking and destiny and thinking about it's representation of women, rather than just picking out the time the female characters are designated to look sexy and making a montage of that.
And that doesn't mean destiny gets a 'pass'. I agree that the come hither female sitting pose is not cool. But if you're not actually taking the representation of women in Destiny as a whole, then what's the point in even discussing it? Without context it's just meaningless.
Which is my beef with Sarkeesian, she doesn't really discuss a game and it's representation of women as a complex issue. And she's right, in most games it's not. It's archaic shit that doesn't warrant the time to try and analyze anything good about female representation, because often there isn't anything good about it. I think to lump Destiny in that category is intellectually dishonest.
https://medium.com/@alascii
But to not drag this out, I agree the best solution is more control over creating our characters. Simply letting people choose how they want to sit/dance/emote would make everyone happy. I would hope...
In this case... yes. Guardians are not "characters", they're "avatars". By only providing one set way to sit/dance/whatever, Bungie is making a statement that "avatars of this gender sit like this", even if that's not their intention. You can't use an argument like "maybe that's just how the character chooses to sit" when they're not characters, though. Agency arguments don't apply.
Thus, by providing a spread of equal options to both genders, it is then the player choosing how the avatar emotes.
And now I'm done talking about sitting.
How 'bout that Crota armor, eh? Why do I have to look like a bug to hit 32?
This is AMAZING. With all the posts about Vault space for Deej, How did they not highlight this??
Most of it is just talking about the new vault companion stuff.
Inferno Control is coming for 1 week on March 3rd. Like Salvage/Doubles/etc, it will be rotated in on different weeks. 6v6 Control, with some changes:
Only thing better would be if this feature was bugged and moving a primary weapon from your Titan to the Vault left you with no primary and only your fists.
You don't need to take anything as a whole to point out problematic issues. Destiny being on the whole good about female representation (which I'm not even arguing, necessarily) is not a view that is mutually exclusive with "hey this one thing here could use some work."
That's what critique is. It's pointing out flaws. Flaws exist in an of themselves, they don't necessarily need the context of the rest of the game to be valid. It isn't intellectual dishonesty, it is "hey there's this thing about this game that I don't like, for x reason." Nothing else needs to be added to that.
How about we not do this. There are plenty of other threads where you can discuss this and have your silly little slap fights.
Sounds like it'll be cool once or twice but without any special incentive to play I don't know if I would bother with the headache of not having a motion tracker.
I think @Arteen is the new addition, but even I get a bit confused with all these names at times.
Team Skittles needs a new addition for Fridays 18.00 EST, consists of myself, @Erevar @skippymchaggis @Arteen @Cleveralias
Use Red Death, or notice people wrecking with it.
Hope Xur has the upgrade for it tomorrow!
I still like it fine for pve, though.
Pulse Rifles are no longer trash-tier. People are saying Red Death and Three Little Words are now top-tier crucible weapons, which is crazy.
Shotguns are way more fun in PvE too. Much more of a risk/reward trade off, versus where they were pretty much just all risk.