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[Election 2016] Dickweasels on parade [READ OP FIRST 5/11/15]

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Posts

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    fortis wrote: »
    Thread, did you know that many Senate seats will be up for re-election next year?

    Of the 34 seats up for grabs, only 10 of them are Democratic and 24 are Republican.

    But, of those 24 Republican seats, 14 are expected to be easy wins for Republicans. One of those seats, held by John Thune (R-SD), was won unopposed in 2010. That's right, the Democrats did not challenge the seat. WTF, Democrats. Stop being awful.

    Colorado is apparently a key battleground. Michael Bennet (D-CO) barely won against a guy who refused to prosecute a rapist who admitted that he knew it was rape. The votes went 851,590 - 822,731. This is your regular reminder that every vote actually does matter and that your protest non-vote is bullshit.

    North Carolina is also back up for grabs, after Richard Burr (R-NC) shows approval ratings of the low 30s. This is a guy who wants a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, wanted to repeal DADT and not replace it with anything allowing gay people to serve, and opposes regulating the tobacco industry in any way. Kay Hagan is being real coy about whether or not she's going to try to get back in the chair.

    Mark Kirk (R-IL) is also vulnerable, with Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) announcing that she's challenging.

    These seats aren't as exciting or publicized as the one in the Oval Office, but they are important nonetheless.

    Along those lines, Quinnipiac did a poll here in Ohio that has former Gov. Ted Strickland leading Rob Portman by 9 points. Early? Yes. But if you're a current member of the US Senate, you probably shouldn't be down by that much against a guy who hasn't done anything in the state in 5 years.

    True, but isn't Strikland basically an institution in Ohio?

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  • AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    So perhaps none of the GOP candidates can get within single digits of Clinton (that would change if she bores people comatose with her campaign launch or bungles her theming/focus, which isn't impossible). They still have a great candidate for the swing-states: Not Bush, but Kush

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Even though weed has a plurality of support among voters nationally, there's no way Hillary comes out in support of legalization or even federal decriminalization. Presidential politics requires you to court even the backwards voters.

    I can see the GOP seizing on this in desperation, though. Maybe, if a candidate is libertarian enough, and then it's going to be a case of too many other awful positions getting in the way.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    There's no way that a GOP candidate chooses to reverse course on weed; the party went insane (and super hypocritical on the subject of states rights) when Colorado legalized it.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There's no way that a GOP candidate chooses to reverse course on weed; the party went insane (and super hypocritical on the subject of states rights) when Colorado legalized it.

    I don't think this is true. Rand Paul is already for a large number of reforms, including federal decriminalization. It's just that he's also batshit crazy on just about everything else.

    Now, whether he can take the nomination or not is debatable, but there are already politicians on both ends of the spectrum that are against schedule I marijuana.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There's no way that a GOP candidate chooses to reverse course on weed; the party went insane (and super hypocritical on the subject of states rights) when Colorado legalized it.

    I don't think this is true. Rand Paul is already for a large number of reforms, including federal decriminalization. It's just that he's also batshit crazy on just about everything else.

    Now, whether he can take the nomination or not is debatable, but there are already politicians on both ends of the spectrum that are against schedule I marijuana.

    How many times has Rand actually pushed it for a vote?

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2015
    How many times has he been a Presidential candidate who (potentially) has something to gain by making it part of his platform?

    joshofalltrades on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Anyway, to answer your question, here's the CARERS Act.
    The Compassionate Access, Research Expansion and Respect States (CARERS) Act, introduced by Sens. Cory Booker (D-N.J.), Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.), seeks to drastically reduce the federal government's ability to crack down on state-legal medical marijuana programs and encourage more research into the plant through several major changes in federal law.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Bennett won in 2010, so it should be a bit easier for him in 2016, though presumably he will face a somewhat less incompetent opponent.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    How many times has he been a Presidential candidate who (potentially) has something to gain by making it part of his platform?

    History shows that when Rand Paul becomes a presidential candidate he REVERSES his supposed positions back towards the Party line.

    So yeah, probably not happening.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    But, I mean, he introduced a bill last month.

    I dislike the guy as much as the next progressive but he supports marijuana law reforms.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    But, I mean, he introduced a bill last month.

    I dislike the guy as much as the next progressive but he supports marijuana law reforms.

    Ron Paul introduced alot of bullshit too. It's how they run their grift.

    The truth is, he doesn't support shit. He's a die hard conservative:
    enten-datalab-cruz-1.png?w=1024

    Don't get scammed. They don't actually support the things they claim to. That's just brand positioning.

    shryke on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2015
    shryke wrote: »
    But, I mean, he introduced a bill last month.

    I dislike the guy as much as the next progressive but he supports marijuana law reforms.

    Ron Paul introduced alot of bullshit too. It's how they run their grift.

    The truth is, he doesn't support shit. He's a die hard conservative:
    enten-datalab-cruz-1.png?w=1024

    Don't get scammed.

    OK? That graph has nothing to do at all with his actual viewpoints on marijuana. It says he's super conservative, and he is, but all I could find on his actual public record for the issue is:

    1) Introducing a bill to the Senate which would effectively end the Federal war on marijuana

    2) Opposing federal funding for state and local marijuana law enforcement

    3) Finally, a journalist who made the claim that Paul is opposed to medical marijuana, but later had to correct this claim as "Paul sees it more as a states' rights issue".

    Frankly, I'm more than a little upset that I have to actually defend a Paul on something. Maybe it's a grift, in which case, okay, but his actual record seems to indicate that he's for allowing states to decide whether marijuana should be legal or not.

    And I'm not sure what you mean by "don't get scammed". I'm not voting for the guy. Never in a million years.

    joshofalltrades on
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    So what's the purpose here? To point out that maybe, possibly, in a million years likely, a prominent republican politician wants to legalise pot? That he probably smokes and is thus maybe a cool dude underneath the suit and hard right wing trappings?

    You're muckin' with a G!

    Do not engage the Watermelons.
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    So what's the purpose here? To point out that maybe, possibly, in a million years likely, a prominent republican politician wants to legalise pot? That he probably smokes and is thus maybe a cool dude underneath the suit and hard right wing trappings?

    No, that one of the R candidates will use it to differentiate themselves from the rest of the R field.

    It's frankly not enough to win over much of the progressive vote, and I don't think Paul can get through the primary.

    But the discussion started with somebody making the claim that no Republicans will be pro-pot:
    Gaddez wrote: »
    There's no way that a GOP candidate chooses to reverse course on weed; the party went insane (and super hypocritical on the subject of states rights) when Colorado legalized it.

    And it's not true.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    But, I mean, he introduced a bill last month.

    I dislike the guy as much as the next progressive but he supports marijuana law reforms.

    Ron Paul introduced alot of bullshit too. It's how they run their grift.

    The truth is, he doesn't support shit. He's a die hard conservative:
    enten-datalab-cruz-1.png?w=1024

    Don't get scammed.

    OK? That graph has nothing to do at all with his actual viewpoints on marijuana. It says he's super conservative, and he is, but all I could find on his actual public record for the issue is:

    1) Introducing a bill to the Senate which would effectively end the Federal war on marijuana

    2) Opposing federal funding for state and local marijuana law enforcement

    3) Finally, a journalist who made the claim that Paul is opposed to medical marijuana, but later had to correct this claim as "Paul sees it more as a states' rights issue".

    Frankly, I'm more than a little upset that I have to actually defend a Paul on something. Maybe it's a grift, in which case, okay, but his actual record seems to indicate that he's for allowing states to decide whether marijuana should be legal or not.

    And I'm not sure what you mean by "don't get scammed". I'm not voting for the guy. Never in a million years.

    You are getting scammed. You are taking his position at face value. That's the whole point here.

    The point of the graph is that his public statements and his actual positions as shown by his voting record don't just not match, but are comically mismatched. Like his grifter father before him, he talks big but doesn't ever follow through.

    Rand Paul blabs about pro-pot positions because that's the biggest issue for the "libertarian" vote he courts. But when it comes down to actual action, he's just a standard very-conservative republican. You can see this right now just reading through this thread as there's already been examples of him walking his previous statements back in order to secure the nomination.

    You should be upset that you are defending Rand Paul's stance on pot. It means you are getting grifted.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Whatever. The point is that I think he will be pro-pot in the primaries, and whether or not he will follow through I think he'll talk a big talk.

  • fortisfortis OhioRegistered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    fortis wrote: »
    Thread, did you know that many Senate seats will be up for re-election next year?

    Of the 34 seats up for grabs, only 10 of them are Democratic and 24 are Republican.

    But, of those 24 Republican seats, 14 are expected to be easy wins for Republicans. One of those seats, held by John Thune (R-SD), was won unopposed in 2010. That's right, the Democrats did not challenge the seat. WTF, Democrats. Stop being awful.

    Colorado is apparently a key battleground. Michael Bennet (D-CO) barely won against a guy who refused to prosecute a rapist who admitted that he knew it was rape. The votes went 851,590 - 822,731. This is your regular reminder that every vote actually does matter and that your protest non-vote is bullshit.

    North Carolina is also back up for grabs, after Richard Burr (R-NC) shows approval ratings of the low 30s. This is a guy who wants a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, wanted to repeal DADT and not replace it with anything allowing gay people to serve, and opposes regulating the tobacco industry in any way. Kay Hagan is being real coy about whether or not she's going to try to get back in the chair.

    Mark Kirk (R-IL) is also vulnerable, with Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) announcing that she's challenging.

    These seats aren't as exciting or publicized as the one in the Oval Office, but they are important nonetheless.

    Along those lines, Quinnipiac did a poll here in Ohio that has former Gov. Ted Strickland leading Rob Portman by 9 points. Early? Yes. But if you're a current member of the US Senate, you probably shouldn't be down by that much against a guy who hasn't done anything in the state in 5 years.

    True, but isn't Strikland basically an institution in Ohio?

    Sort of. Democrats definitely hold him in high regard and he connects very well to the rural southeast Ohio. But he's weaker in the urban areas and they're going to hammer him on the recession. Portman already has a web site up about all the jobs lost and is also running web ads stating the same. But if the voters don't make that connection (which they shouldn't) then there's no way Portman can win.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    zakkiel wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    It strikes me as unfortunate that Republicans have been able to capture the religious high ground, despite--as Gaddez points out--the fact that there are traditions even within Christianity that would recoil at their casual self-anointing.

    It is also disappointing that the message sells so well, even though it's so vapid.

    The left-wing has been traditionally been very hostile towards organized religion. First it was a pushback against religion from Marxists, then in the 60s it was a pushback from the free-love hippies, and then in the 90s it was the ACLU suing local governments to remove Christmas decorations on behalf of the easily-offended. In the brave new world we live in it's gotten stupider of course, but the Democratic party is definitely not the party you think of when you hear "organized religion".

    To the business owners, popular opinion is forcing them to provide service to something as religiously abhorrent to them as a pornographer's convention (most of them are totally fine with gay people, just not gay weddings), and the First Amendment protects the practice of religion. Would you pass a law forcing Muslim butchers to handle pork?

    On the other hand, being singled out for discrimination is definitely a slap in the face to gay people, and so I'm leaning towards "no discrimination" here. But if you're going to crack down on refusal of service based on religious beliefs you should crack down on all of it including crap like this.

    In the first half of the 20th century, there was a strong association between liberal politics and Christianity, even evangelical Christianity. The current conservative Christian phenomenon is pants-on-head bizarre. My favorite bit of dark comedy in modern politics is the group of congressional Republicans who identify as both Christian and Objectivist.

    There was also a strong association between Southern Evangelical Christianity and the proto-Tea Party efforts in the late 19th and 20th centuries to declare America a Christian nation. The major legacy from that period were Prohibition, stopping mail on Sundays and a bunch of state/local censorships laws.

    One thing that should be pointed out about the free-love hippies is that they were largely the children of Christian parents. That movement wasn't a case of outsiders imposing hatred on Christianity. It was a rebellion of largely Christian children who looked at the way their parents lived and said, "Fuck that shit."

    Too bad they reverted back to form as a generation once the war ended. Luckily, their kids and grandkids took their lessons to heart and aren't as willing to become Organization Man once they hit 25.

  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Whatever. The point is that I think he will be pro-pot in the primaries, and whether or not he will follow through I think he'll talk a big talk.

    I don't see it personally. The libertarian fringe are in favor of a position like that. But they are a small faction of the larger Republican Party. One that, for the most part, views pot as something that shouldn't be legal at all.

    Paul may take a pro pot stance, but I can't see it beig anything other than a lukewarm stance of letting states decide for themselves. Otherwise he risks losing support of the rest of the party. He has the libertarian vote, he needs to court the rest of the party if he wan to win

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Marathon wrote: »
    Whatever. The point is that I think he will be pro-pot in the primaries, and whether or not he will follow through I think he'll talk a big talk.

    I don't see it personally. The libertarian fringe are in favor of a position like that. But they are a small faction of the larger Republican Party. One that, for the most part, views pot as something that shouldn't be legal at all.

    Paul may take a pro pot stance, but I can't see it beig anything other than a lukewarm stance of letting states decide for themselves. Otherwise he risks losing support of the rest of the party. He has the libertarian vote, he needs to court the rest of the party if he wan to win

    It's really easy to claim "states rights" and just wash your hands of it. It's also a total cop-out. I get the sense Rand thinks it shouldn't be illegal like the rest of us, but if he's pressed on the states rights solution, he'll inevitably have to back out of it, because god knows some of the states with strong private prison lobbies aren't going to change a thing. Which is inevitably going to become a race problem, as if it wasn't enough of one already.

    Dark_Side on
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    It's even better for Rand because 'states rights' means something completely different to a certain sub-group of Republican voters. If he's lucky, he might be able to appeal to both the pro-weed and neo-confederates at the same time.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Whatever. The point is that I think he will be pro-pot in the primaries, and whether or not he will follow through I think he'll talk a big talk.
    An actual pro-pot statement inn the primaries would surprise me. If anything, he'll be conspicuously silent about it in Ann attempt to empty-suit those voters while trying not to alienate the anti-hippy grandparents that make up 60% of the voters in the primary.

    When pushed, he'll fold like a cheap suit.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Whatever. The point is that I think he will be pro-pot in the primaries, and whether or not he will follow through I think he'll talk a big talk.
    An actual pro-pot statement inn the primaries would surprise me. If anything, he'll be conspicuously silent about it in Ann attempt to empty-suit those voters while trying not to alienate the anti-hippy grandparents that make up 60% of the voters in the primary.

    When pushed, he'll fold like a cheap suit.

    Yeah, he's not betting his campaign on weed.

    Harry Dresden on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    You might see some bi-partisan push on sentencing reform. That's probably the most you can hope for though.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I'm expecting that republicans will make some half assed attempts at outreach to hispanics. They'll still scream about how much they want to build a wall 5000 feet high and such but they'll do it after they attempted a speach in spanish the night before.

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    An actual pro-pot statement inn the primaries would surprise me.

    Wouldn't surprise me at all.

  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Depends on how holy roller they are, I think. Anything that smacks of immorality is going to get denounced, regardless. But I think the bible thumpers are going to tear into it.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Well since they're all about dat gospel, is there a bit where Jesus The Old Testament says "weed is an abomination" or somesuch? I forget.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Well since they're all about dat gospel, is there a bit where Jesus The Old Testament says "weed is an abomination" or somesuch? I forget.

    It's right beside the part where Jesus talks about how white he is.

  • SicariiSicarii The Roose is Loose Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Well since they're all about dat gospel, is there a bit where Jesus The Old Testament says "weed is an abomination" or somesuch? I forget.

    It's right beside the part where Jesus talks about how white he is.

    Yes I believe that's [Chad 3:23]

    gotsig.jpg
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Well since they're all about dat gospel, is there a bit where Jesus The Old Testament says "weed is an abomination" or somesuch? I forget.

    It's right beside the part where Jesus talks about how white he is.

    Is that before or after he talks about how much he hates the poors?

    I think it was something like: "Verily, hated shall be the poor because they are an offense to the lord and are totes like cockroaches yo."

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Yea, I don't see this as an issue Hillary touches, definitely not first. If R's go hard illegal she'll just not bring it up or go all gay marriage on
    Jazz wrote: »
    Well since they're all about dat gospel, is there a bit where Jesus The Old Testament says "weed is an abomination" or somesuch? I forget.

    No, it's basically an extension of the comments about alcohol which amounts to "Drunks are sorta jerks, huh?" and I only remember that from Psalms. Nothing on the level of the dietary restrictions against pork or in any of the serious books of laws.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Ho! Ho! Ho! Drink Coke!Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Well since they're all about dat gospel, is there a bit where Jesus The Old Testament says "weed is an abomination" or somesuch? I forget.

    Jesus never says a single word about homosexuality either, but that doesn't stop them from obsessing over it.

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Marijuana has a long history stretching back to it's origins in Central and South Asia, and it was known to peoples living in the Middle East, especially in Persia. But I don't recall it ever being referenced directly anywhere in the Bible or widely considered in antiquity to be anything more then another drug pagans used to commune with their gods.

    I wouldn't put it past the early Christians to lump it in with general disdain for pagan practices and stuff like alcohol, but I don't think it was ever a focus back then for them. The hate on for marijuana came much later for different reasons.

    Corehealer on
    488W936.png
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Yeah, I don't see Clinton reversing her stance on legalization, but at the same time I think she's savvy enough to not bring it up to stir the pot and risk alienating some younger voters. I'm sure the question will be asked at some point, and I'm sure she'll pass the buck via a "should be left up to the states" answer.

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    "Cursed are the meek, for they shall inherit my foot in their hind end. Blessed are the merchants and the money-changers, who so create unto us precious jobs."

    I'm pretty sure this is verbatim from the Sermon on the Mount.

    Atomika on
  • ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    edited April 2015
    I expect hillary to avoid addressing pot, maybe say it's up to the states, just generally not say much about it

    and then completely reverse course once she gets into office and crack down on it as hard as she can because she's a fucking chicken hawk and they're all terrified of being perceived as soft on crime

    Shorty on
  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Cornfield? Cornfield.Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    I expect hillary to avoid addressing pot, maybe say it's up to the states, just generally not say much about it

    and then completely reverse course once she gets into office and crack down on it has hard as she can because she's a fucking chicken hawk and they're all terrified of being perceived as soft on crime

    I'd be ... uh ... surprised if that second paragraph happens.

    I do enjoy reading how utterly bonkers, devious, and evil everyone thinks Hillary is though!

  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    I expect Hillary to politely explain that the people running/serving/patronizing pot shops are felons, that federal law supersedes state law, and that a less permissive president would have them arrested and/or murdered in their fucking beds.

    At worst, she'll give an amnesty and a deadline.

    Edith Upwards on
This discussion has been closed.