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Kings of War - the Game of Fantasy Battles (and Disaffected Warhammerists)

jammujammu Sorry honey, I'm working late again.Registered User regular
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Kings of War 2nd edition
Kings of War is a Fantasy Mass-combat game from Mantic games.

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In a Nutshell it is a remodeled Warhammer-game, with all the extraneous crud and special rules distilled in to much easier and exciting format.
I'll assume most of you will know Warhammer and explain KoW through that lens.

Notable differences From WHFB:
*No removing models from units, Instead you give them Damage-markers.
*Damage Markers get added to Nerve-roll, which might Waver them (Can only stand or retreat) or Rout (destroy). Smallest & weakest units might have Rout of 10+, while Hordes have 20+. Damage Markers stay on units.
*Rank-and-file troopers aren't individuals, instead they come in fixed unit sizes that have united stats.
*Infantry has Troopers (10), Regiments (20), Hordes (40) and Legions (60), Cavalry same with 5/10/20 riders and Large Infantry 3/6.
*Instead of Wheeling, units can pivot around their center point. Marchers (double move) cannot pivot at all.
*Most of things are measured from center of the front-line (Unit "leaders" place), whether unit is in range or sees the target.
*No templates. War-machines (and the like) roll single die for hit and usually deal D6+x hits if their original roll hits.
*Player whose turn it is rolls all the dice: To hit rolls (your stat), To damage (opponents stat) and Nerve (opponents stat), if any wounds were caused.

But you can check the rules and their differences yourself from Mantic Games homepage:
Free Basic rules and basic Army lists
They're only 27 pages long! (+2-3 pages per army)

The Main Rulebook, which will be released in August has more rules for Scenarios, Magic Items and stuff
The Free Basic Rules should have all you need to get started.
The Rulebook will also have fluff and more comprehensive army-lists with monsters, special characters and more army-lists.

Current Armies:

Good Guys:

Basileans - Humans in Plate-armour, Panther-cavalry and Angelic Support.

Dwarves - Shorter humans with sturdier troops and War-Machines. Also Throwing Mastiffs!

Elves - Elite and Fast Army with Some treefolk and Dragon allies. A Mix of High and Wood Elves.

Neutral Guys:
Kingdoms of Men - Regular Human army, with War Machines and Handguns. Very Empire like.

Ogres - Big guys with big weapons. Visually different, but otherwise Ogre Kingdoms style army.

Evil Guys:
Orcs - They're Orcs! No Goblins though.

Goblins - They're Goblins! No Orcs though.

Undead - Zombies, Ghouls, Skeletons, Werevolves and Mummies. They're a mix Vampire Counts / Tomb kings from the good old days.

Abyssal Dwarves - Dwarves, but bad! They do also have Throwing Mastiffs!

In full rulebook there will be also following armies:
Forces of Nature
Forces of the Abyss

There's also really flexible Ally system. You can have up to 25% allies and you can't mix Good armies with Evil ones.

Mantic have also announced that they will make books for non-Mantic armies.
There's going to be rules for Popular Fantasy (I.E Warhammer) and Historical Armies. ETA: TBD.


Oh and one more thing:

You can use your Non-mantic armies to play this! Just have your miniatures on right size unit tray and you're good to go.

I lied! Just one more thing: You could go all in and make some awesome dioramas that are on right size base like some fine gentlemen on the internet:
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Lord_AsmodeusElvenshae
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Posts

  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    "The Game of Fantasy Battles" is pretty dang ballsy.

    zaku.png
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
    H3Knuckles
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    "The Game of Fantasy Battles" is pretty dang ballsy.

    It's kind of their thing at the moment.

    Lord_AsmodeusH3Knuckles
  • jammujammu Sorry honey, I'm working late again. Registered User regular
    So I'll start by talking more about my first test game of Kings of War.

    It was a 1000 points small game of Kingdoms of Men (Empire) Vs alliance of Orcs & Goblins (Orcs & Goblins).

    Both of us were 15+ year veterans of Warhammer and using our old armies.

    Empire had:
    Regiment (10) of Knights
    Regiment (20) of Militia
    Regiment (20) of Arquebusiers
    Horde (40) of Spear Phalanx
    Cannon
    Siege Artillery
    General, Army Standard & Wizard

    Orcs had:
    Regiment (20) of Ax Orcs
    Horde (40) of Ax Orcs
    Regiment (20) of Greatax (black) Orcs
    Regiment (3) of Gore Chariots
    Flagger & Godspeaker
    +
    Regiment (20) of Goblin Spitters (bow)
    Horde (40) of Goblin Sharpsticks (spear)

    1:st round we maneuvered to better positions. His Cannon moved into better position on a hilltop and arquebusiers on another. Mortar hit Ax Regiment, but they ignored the carnage. Knights moved in to threaten orc flank, while on the other side, Gore chariots threatened the other flank.

    2:nd round knights did suicide charge against the ax regiment. Lot of orcs were trampled under their hoofs, but thanks to flagger, they only wavered on Nerve-reroll. Next turn Great axes flanked them, gaining double attacks and Routing them off the table. Gore Chariots charged against arquebusiers, but couldn't even waver them.
    Mortar hit again and killed lot of goblins. It would continue to hit each turn and killing lot of goblins/orcs. MVP of the game.

    3:rd round Militia and spear Phalanx charged Goblins and Routed them. Ax Horde Charged against the phalanx and wavered them. Mortar killed more Orcs. Arquebusiers failed to wound in their countercharge against the chariots -> Chariots retained their +2 Thundercharge bonus and Routed the Argues in their turn.

    4th round Empire General Charged the Chariots, who were now threatening Spear Phalanx flank. Few hits in and the Chariots Wavered. Most of the orcs were full of Wounds, but Unwavered. They routed the Phalanx and Militia, while Mortar dealt even more wounds.

    5:th round. General Routed the Chariots, but Orcs Marched in range to threaten both War-machines. We ended the game here.

    Other notes on the game:
    Cannon didn't hit anything during the whole game. Spitters weren't much better, dealing couple of wounds to the Cannon. Wizard did some wounds on Goblin/orcs, but was mostly unimpressive. Godspeaker spent most of his time healing 1-2 wounds each round from Orcs.

    Empire started at disadvantage, having to move both Cannon and Arquebusiers from their starting spot, instead of shooting. He also did pretty foolhardy knight charge that cost him the unit. They aren't that durable in Kings of War! But it was a learning game for both of us and we had great time.

    All and all the game lasted about 2 hours. It would have taken lot less if we hadn't have to check and recheck the rules.

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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    Once I get back from vacation, I plan to try this game out with my Warhammer buddies. Couldn't resist backing their KS for a nice undead army and now I somehow think I'll have a lot less trouble pushing the idea of the game itself.

    One thing worth mentioning is that, unlike certain secretive companies, Mantic beta-tests the rules and has a rules committee that they at least listen to. For instance, early in the beta test for KoW 2.0, I heard complaints that Mantic had left the Kindoms of Men (that have no Mantic models for sale) were weak but apparently they are fixed up now because the rules committee insisted. They are really striving for tournament quality rules and while tourneys aren't my thing, I think it will help the game overall.

    Also, a quick note about Mantic's minis: In general the quality of Mantic's plastics is very hit or miss. In theory they should be basic models, maybe lacking in options and variety but fine for the massive units they were made for but some fall short. Very early models, Dwarves, Elves and Orcs are nice as long as you like their aesthetic. Other times, either because of cutting corners when they were short of money or because their Kickstarters gave them more work than they could manage, the quality isn't there. Goblins and Basilean men at arms get poor reviews. On the other hand, their undead models get almost universal praise and not just for their cheapness.

    And yeah, while I think to win certain painting awards at Mantic's own tourneys you need to be using Mantic models, it's nice to hear things like the fact that Mantic's CEO's dwarf army is a combination of GW and Mantic models.

    Finally the idea of Kings of War as a gateway drug to historical gaming terrifies me. I've got a lot of books on Roman history and there are some beautiful 28mm legionaries out there.

    No, wait, that's not the final thing. The final thing is that, apparently, their sci-fi game "Warpath" isn't a knockoff of 40k. It's a knockoff of SpaceMarine/Epic but in 28mm. Very interesting.

    steam_sig.png
    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
  • AuralynxAuralynx Thirty-Seven Keys Registered User regular
    There're a bunch of models for this in stock at the local store, and I've been eyeballing them for purposes of keeping myself amused, but they're nothing on Lizardmen / Beastmen so far in terms of weird stuff to paint.

    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
    OSvv7zs.png


  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    There're a bunch of models for this in stock at the local store, and I've been eyeballing them for purposes of keeping myself amused, but they're nothing on Lizardmen / Beastmen so far in terms of weird stuff to paint.

    The three armies they're producing next - Forces of Nature, Forces of the Abyss and the Twilight Kin update - should cover that. I'm actually really curious to see what they do with the Twilight Kin since Mantic apparently want to move away from them being direct Dark Elf rip-offs and are being very tight-lipped on what they're going to turn into.

  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    Not out yet but the forces of Nature will have
    Salamanders
    53dcd64cfcce96859583acf64dbfa2d5_original.jpg?v=1417309305&w=680&fit=max&auto=format&q=92&s=2af50900bda06e1e4763eb5c6aa79d51

    Naiads
    6e6c92206ec6109afa7a4bb7f8931591_original.jpg?v=1417434896&w=680&fit=max&auto=format&q=92&s=cab8256268efd0f420dbff8e83066d30

    As far as things that are out now I'm a big fan of Mantic's Fleabag Riders
    fleabags-with-bows-sml.jpg

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    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
  • AuralynxAuralynx Thirty-Seven Keys Registered User regular
    Okay, the salamanders at least look cool, and if the evil dwarves come out anywhere near the Mid-Nor from Confrontation I'll see about picking some of this up. Unfortunately it's basically Warhammer or bust around here in terms of things people play, to my knowledge.

    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
    OSvv7zs.png


  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Out of curiosity does this game have different formations for units with different benefits/penalties? ie, march column, attack column, line, square, stuff of that sort? Or nah?

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Out of curiosity does this game have different formations for units with different benefits/penalties? ie, march column, attack column, line, square, stuff of that sort? Or nah?

    Nah, unless I've missed something obvious it's a set dimension for each unit size.

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Out of curiosity does this game have different formations for units with different benefits/penalties? ie, march column, attack column, line, square, stuff of that sort? Or nah?

    Nah, unless I've missed something obvious it's a set dimension for each unit size.

    Ah kind of a bummer, always think its neat when games that have units in formations actually give you formations to play with. I really like when games give you march columns as it lets you have a reserve that you can commit to other parts of the battle as needed, but then once they get out of march column they are slow and committed, making you really weigh when and where to send your reserve.

    Thanks for the quick answer though!

  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    There's no changing formations for the most part. And you don't remove models as casualties are taken.

    my6I0rR.png?1

    The downside is that you're pretty much not going to be able to do any weird tactical movement tricks with changing formations like what I'd occasionally do with WFB Empire armies.

    The upside is that its easier to keep track of and since the unit counts as a base you can do silly stuff like what's at the top of the page.

    zaku.png
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    So, I'm interested in this game. I am curious about the lore though? I don't know how much they're focusing on the lore but I haven't been able to find much, does anyone have a place I could look for some fluff about the game? I find that helps me get into a game more since a big part of whether I enjoy a game or not is setting.

    Lord_Asmodeus.gifLord_Asmodeus2.gifz1i30sg.png
  • jammujammu Sorry honey, I'm working late again. Registered User regular
    the Lore should be in the Rulebook. I'm not a fluff-person, but here's what I recall of Mantica:

    Mantica has recently recovered from Elf-made Ice-age that destroyed old civilizations.
    Dwarves were first to expand behind the receding glaciers, due to their hardier nature. They're not your grandfathers dying race!
    Lot of Undeads are remnants of lost civilizations raised up by Dark Magics.

    And that's pretty much my limit. Short blurbs from earliest Mantic armies.

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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    I think there might be a book of short stories and I'm pretty sure that Ronnie has mentioned a series of novels that have been commissioned. I'm not really a fluff guy either so I might be confusing what there is for Mantica and what there is for Mantic's sci-fi setting.

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    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
  • TimFijiTimFiji Registered User regular
    I hope by Popular Fantasy Armies they mean Beastmen so I can play them again!

    Switch: SW-2322-2047-3148
    3DS: 5112-3442-2082
    Learn Japanese through video games!
    Steam: Archpriest
    Lord_Asmodeus
  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2015
    "The Herd" is already being playtested.

    And Forces of Nature aren't Lizardmen; they're more like Wood Elves with weird core. Lizardmen are confirmed, but pre-beta test.

    admanb on
    TimFijiLord_Asmodeus
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    TimFiji wrote: »
    I hope by Popular Fantasy Armies they mean Beastmen so I can play them again!
    That's precisely the idea.

    From the beta rules section of Mantic's forum

    Brief army details (detailed background will be in the book)

    1. Ratkin - A race originally created by the Abyssal Dwarfs (Evil)
    2. The League of Rhordia - an alliance of human city states and the halfling shires (Neutral)
    3. The Herd - satyrs, centaurs, minotaurs, owlbears and other beastmen. (Neutral)

    The following lists are in progress, waiting for background to be approved and with working titles
    4. The Shattered Clans (Humans) (Evil)
    5. Empire of Dust (Mostly Skeletons) (Evil)
    6. Reptilians (two different lizard-based races) (Good)
    7. Name TBC - fluff still to be done (Humans) (Good)
    8. SUPER SECRET
    9. SUPER SECRET

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    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    TimFiji wrote: »
    I hope by Popular Fantasy Armies they mean Beastmen so I can play them again!

    They already have a beta list for this, it's in the tab labelled "The Herd" in this spreadsheet.

    Edit: Beaten so hard, but oh well.

    Burnage on
    Lord_Asmodeus
  • TimFijiTimFiji Registered User regular
    Ahhh, man I'm useless in finding that stuff out myself. Thanks.
    Already got a dwarf army which includes some Mantic models!

    Switch: SW-2322-2047-3148
    3DS: 5112-3442-2082
    Learn Japanese through video games!
    Steam: Archpriest
  • AuralynxAuralynx Thirty-Seven Keys Registered User regular
    Owlbears? Rad.

    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
    OSvv7zs.png


  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    Not so rad: Being charged by this maniac owlbear from Reaper

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    steam_sig.png
    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
    Morkath
  • AuralynxAuralynx Thirty-Seven Keys Registered User regular
    Seen it! It's a cool one. I have their totally-not-a-shambling-mound guy from that same line and it looks excellent.

    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
    OSvv7zs.png


  • Mongrel IdiotMongrel Idiot Registered User regular
    Do they not support the Kingdoms of Men faction? I didn't see any models for it listed on the Mantic site.

    I like the look of the system. Seems pretty clean and efficient, for the most part.

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Mantic's general attitude seems to be "We don't care what models you use to play this game", and since there are dozens of places to get generic human models I'm guessing that faction's pretty low down on their list of priorities.

    Mongrel Idiot
  • jammujammu Sorry honey, I'm working late again. Registered User regular
    For people wanting more fluff, I found this description from an abandoned wiki-site:
    http://manticgames.wikia.com/wiki/Mantica

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    Lord_Asmodeus
  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Played a 1500pt game of this yesterday using the basic/free versions of Elves vs. Undead and enjoyed it. The system is very clean and mechanically tight. I got wrecked because I overestimated how much damage I could do my alpha strike turn and split up my charges, so the undead were able to grind me down with their regen and lifeleech.

    I'm looking forward to the beta rules for Lizardmen so I can finally use my 100+ Saurus warriors, which were never good in WHFB.

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Bit of a heads up, but the full beta PDF of the Ratkin (read: Skaven) list is now available to download.

  • jammujammu Sorry honey, I'm working late again. Registered User regular
    Hah. Skavenslaves have only a Defense of 2+! a Real Cannonfodder unit.

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  • jammujammu Sorry honey, I'm working late again. Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    New beta-warhammer lists:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=0

    Salamanders (GOOD): a Lizardmen re-make with Fire-Elemental* and Fire Drake Additions. Also has options for retro-skinks, like Cold One Cavalry and Bowskinks. Only obvious exclusion is the Slann Mage Priests. Fluff-wise they are very Fire-themed, instead of jungle-themed.

    Varangur (EVIL): The Warriors of Chaos re-make. Relies more on the Marauder-side, with some added options like Bow-marauders. I'm not familiar with the latest Chaos-books, but it seems to have most of the options, including "chaos-marks" and a Greater Daemon. Fluff-wise they're Norse warriors with with few elite units and weird monsters. Cold-themed.

    The Brotherhood (GOOD): a Bretonnia Re-make with Water Elemental* and Naiad (water nymphs) additions. They have nice synergy with Villeins (Peasants) getting to re-roll their morale, when they have Knights nearby. Fluff-wise they're very much like the Bretonnia, minus the Grim-dark.

    *Both Large-Infantry and Monster versions.

    jammu on
    Ww8FAMg.jpg
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    What's meant to be the Greater Daemon equivalent in the Varangur list? The Cavern Dweller?

  • jammujammu Sorry honey, I'm working late again. Registered User regular
    Herja of the Fallen. It is Flying Large Hero with 3+ to hit, 6+ defense, 6 attacks and CS(3). Pretty brutal for a single figure.

    Ww8FAMg.jpg
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    Maybe Daemons are supposed to stay in the Infernals and can be included using the ally rules?

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Maybe Daemons are supposed to stay in the Infernals and can be included using the ally rules?

    They're not averse to putting units in multiple lists, for what it's worth. A few demonic units pop up in the Twilight Kin/Dark Elf list and I'm pretty sure the Harpies/Gargoyles are in about three or four different armies.

  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    Neat, I like the simplified rules.

    Would it be wrong to come to the table with 10 zombie legions as your only units? Just 800 dice rolls per turn!

    Also customizing some of the allied units to mesh in a visual theme with your main army would be a fun idea, rotting trolls, tribes of goblin aligned human bowmen, Ogre chariots in elven colors with elegant artistic bits added to them.

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I'm a bit curious why you'd have units at all if a unit is still a single base which can't change shape or be reduced in size. Might as well just use single models at that point?

    What is this I don't even.
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I'm a bit curious why you'd have units at all if a unit is still a single base which can't change shape or be reduced in size. Might as well just use single models at that point?

    Because it looks awesome?

    But yeah, you could print out some photos of minis and paste those onto bases of the right size and play that way if you really wanted to.

    steam_sig.png
    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I'm a bit curious why you'd have units at all if a unit is still a single base which can't change shape or be reduced in size. Might as well just use single models at that point?

    I believe that is the idea.

    I've been seeing some amazing looking scenic troop bases.

    Including one that made some really good use of the Stormhost models as paladins, even.

    zaku.png
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I'm actually a little sad that the vast majority of my current KoW army is repurposed Warhammer stuff because I really like the idea of creating fixed dioramas for it. Not having to remove individual models during gameplay really means you can get crazy on conversions.

    On a related note the Twilight Kin PDF got released. The only major change from beta is that they can take Hydras without allying.

  • jammujammu Sorry honey, I'm working late again. Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I'm a bit curious why you'd have units at all if a unit is still a single base which can't change shape or be reduced in size. Might as well just use single models at that point?

    <snip>

    Including one that made some really good use of the Stormhost models as paladins, even.

    These ones?:
    lPEa7sp.jpg

    Bit on the expensive side, but otherwise nice looking.

    Ww8FAMg.jpg
    DraevenDer Waffle MousBurnageH3Knuckles
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