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Ant Man: Something Something Size Joke Big

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    Did anyone notice
    that the bomb that took out Pym's building was very similar tech to the bombs in Agent Carter? It was just a more advanced and stable version.

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  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    One thing I do have to say tho... and while it's a ding against Ant-Man it's more a ding against Marvel in general.
    Can they please stop killing villains off?
    Other than Loki there have been no repeat villains, and they get no time to expand upon their single film... and usually pretty cliche... appearances.
    On top of that, the generic rich white business man has been used in far too many of the Marvel movies, and this one offered little to challenge that.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    It would not surprise me if Loki was one of the reasons they kill off their villains. Because he was such a fan favorite, they felt like they now have to put Loki into every movie. I'm very surprised he didn't play an AoU cameo at all.

    Javen on
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    Did anyone notice
    that the bomb that took out Pym's building was very similar tech to the bombs in Agent Carter? It was just a more advanced and stable version.

    I think that was more to do with where the bomb was
    The charges were in the Yellowjacket goo production vats. I think the explosion got shrank, rather than a special bomb.

    One thing I do have to say tho... and while it's a ding against Ant-Man it's more a ding against Marvel in general.
    Can they please stop killing villains off?
    Other than Loki there have been no repeat villains, and they get no time to expand upon their single film... and usually pretty cliche... appearances.
    On top of that, the generic rich white business man has been used in far too many of the Marvel movies, and this one offered little to challenge that.

    I like his odds!
    Maimed maybe, but he seemed to get pulled into the microverse along with Lang and Janet. If the implication is that Janet can come back, maybe Yellowjacket can too.

    Oh brilliant
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    The problem so far is surviving villains leads to "What do we do now?" with all its moral quandary or else "I'll get you next time!" saturday morning cartoon stuff.

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  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    The problem so far is surviving villains leads to "What do we do now?" with all its moral quandary or else "I'll get you next time!" saturday morning cartoon stuff.

    Just lock them away. If they can do it with the abomination and loki they can figure a way to hold the others. It's much easier to sell a "broke free or was broken out" to re-use a villain than bringing someone back from the dead.

    So far there's only a handful that are in a questionable state that could potentially come back.

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Ant-Man is a fine film. I can't really give it any more than that. It's not bad, and better than Jurassic World, but it does nothing to make me think Marvel learned anything from their other films, that this was basically the same gist of what Wright wrote when it was commissioned 7 years ago. A lot of it feels like a retread of Iron Man 1, the humor misses a lot for me, so much that it started to bum me out because there's 4 people connected to this who should have punched it up better and it almost felt like they were initially going to go for an R rating but had to dial it way back, the ant stuff is great and the casting is 50/50, but does it take forever to actually get to a point where I start to care.

    First, this actually is a good movie to see in 3D, in that sense it's Marvel's best movie for the cinematic experience. IMAX 3D, everything looked great and the effects never seemed bad or ridiculous.

    But let's switch it up a bit and go with the casting first. Michael Douglas is a great Hank Pym, glad he was in the movie a lot. Lilly is a great Hope, even though the character of Hope is dull and rehashed MCU female only with a bob haircut or whatever, I would have liked her to be more like Janet. The kid who plays Cassie was great, so much better than Iron Man 3 kid. Paul Rudd is good throughout but he never feels like Scott Lang, it was Paul Rudd is Ant-Man, he never is able to take himself to the level RDJ or Pratt does in owning and making the lead an extension of him. Not-Luthor was dull and boring as fuck though, Marvel has to be trolling the audience at this point with shitty villains. Even the attempt to shoehorn a reason for him being boring and dumb feels like a waste. The robbery gang, definitely hit and miss. Michael Pena is funny half the time, irritatingly punchable the other half (the "heard it from a friend of a friend" thing was bad the first time, a complete whiff the second).

    Story wise, you could skip the first 20 minutes and still be fine. Maybe watch the first two minutes of the setup with Pym, but I could not care less about Scott's family issues or trying to do things the right way. Could also care less about Not-Luthor being grumpy gus at Pym and Hope trying to make her hair perfectly frame her face all the time always. What kept coming to mind with this movie was how it picked and choosed how to incorporate the other stuff in the MCU, to the point where you can clearly tell what scenes were made after the fact. For the most part you can see Wright's ideas everywhere they pop up. Everything in the small scale is his, even when it's mishandled like the briefcase fight. But then you have a scene halfway through that Marvel spoiled that feels like it was done one reshoots after everything else just to tie Ant-Man into the next movies because Marvel Studios gave the green light to Phase3's ideas.

    For instance, the Yellowjacket suit is basically the stand-in for the Iron Man armor. But they never talk about the Iron Man armor even though this takes place after Avengers 2, and that would be a big competitor in terms of military application. But then later they talk about Stark to handwave away Avengers involvement and focus more on Pym's talked about past with Howard. And you would think SHIELD disappearing would have a bigger mark on Pym since he was one of their biggest (heh) assets for decades. Also, the movie tries to do an admirable thing by making SHIELD and the Triskelion seem to be around and known before Iron Man 1, but it never lands it so it always does feel like a secret organization who even Tony was only somewhat aware of 7 years ago.

    And the big tie-in appeal to the other movies. the
    Falcon scene, it was so after the fact. Like, here's Mackie and Rudd, here's a field, we'll incorporate the CGI Avengers building later on, just fight for a minute please. My Spider-Sense tells me Lang was originally going to steal something from Stark at his house garage and cue lol funny scene with the robot dummy hand, but they didn't want to waste RDJ on this movie back when this whole ordeal was just achieving lift off money printing status.

    Also, there was one scene that was trying to have importance and weight to it that just didn't:
    Antony dying, it had no weight whatsoever. And this is from someone who never wants to see animals hurt at all and can't watch I Am Legend or Neverending Story again because of [/i]those scenes[/i], it was just whiff, nothing.

    There was more weight to the Pym/Hope talk about Janet (before it was ruined with trying too hard funny business at the end) even though that seemed like a bog standard movie story device.


    So there we go, it's a fine movie, I've just lost interest continuing this review. I'm not saying it passive aggressively when I say it's a fine movie, it does all the stuff it needed to without a problem and in a few instance really does give these blips of fun that Iron Man or GOTG had (the training montage, the opening of the third act heist). It just didn't have anything else to make me care, there really was no heart to the movie, even though it tried to make it seem like there was. I think if the humor landed more it would have really made it better, but there were about three scenes where I really laughed and had a smile. I think I laughed more in Cap 1 than this movie, which is just...weird.


    edit: plot hole, I think?
    outside of Pym just batman levels of planning and coincidences for Scott Lang to get the suit, if you wanted to remove the =Yellowjacket suit from being made, just blow up the building with the subatomic inverted bomb to begin with, don't even steal the suit?

    TexiKen on
  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    edit: plot hole, I think?
    outside of Pym just batman levels of planning and coincidences for Scott Lang to get the suit, if you wanted to remove the =Yellowjacket suit from being made, just blow up the building with the subatomic inverted bomb to begin with, don't even steal the suit?
    He needed to make sure any backups were taken care of and that all the people were cleared out.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Also, there was one scene that was trying to have importance and weight to it that just didn't:
    Antony dying, it had no weight whatsoever. And this is from someone who never wants to see animals hurt at all and can't watch I Am Legend or Neverending Story again because of [/i]those scenes[/i], it was just whiff, nothing.
    I think that was kind of the point. It's an ant and there are hundreds like it right there. The overly-dramatic pan down of the wing was meta-humor.

    Anyway my feeling was that the film was pretty entertaining but you could definitely see the seams where they stitched in the MCU tie-ins to the Edgar Wright draft.

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Also, there was one scene that was trying to have importance and weight to it that just didn't:
    Antony dying, it had no weight whatsoever. And this is from someone who never wants to see animals hurt at all and can't watch I Am Legend or Neverending Story again because of [/i]those scenes[/i], it was just whiff, nothing.
    I think that was kind of the point. It's an ant and there are hundreds like it right there. The overly-dramatic pan down of the wing was meta-humor.

    Anyway my feeling was that the film was pretty entertaining but you could definitely see the seams where they stitched in the MCU tie-ins to the Edgar Wright draft.
    I was sad when Antony died :(

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Also, there was one scene that was trying to have importance and weight to it that just didn't:
    Antony dying, it had no weight whatsoever. And this is from someone who never wants to see animals hurt at all and can't watch I Am Legend or Neverending Story again because of [/i]those scenes[/i], it was just whiff, nothing.
    I think that was kind of the point. It's an ant and there are hundreds like it right there. The overly-dramatic pan down of the wing was meta-humor.

    Anyway my feeling was that the film was pretty entertaining but you could definitely see the seams where they stitched in the MCU tie-ins to the Edgar Wright draft.
    I was sad when Antony died :(
    That's why you don't give them names!

  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    edit: plot hole, I think?
    outside of Pym just batman levels of planning and coincidences for Scott Lang to get the suit, if you wanted to remove the =Yellowjacket suit from being made, just blow up the building with the subatomic inverted bomb to begin with, don't even steal the suit?
    He needed to make sure any backups were taken care of and that all the people were cleared out.

    That second point actually bugs me
    Other than Luis pulling that one guard out, I don't remember any mass evacuation or any indication to the other people inside, including the many other guards that were punched out, that they should get out.

  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    edit: plot hole, I think?
    outside of Pym just batman levels of planning and coincidences for Scott Lang to get the suit, if you wanted to remove the =Yellowjacket suit from being made, just blow up the building with the subatomic inverted bomb to begin with, don't even steal the suit?
    He needed to make sure any backups were taken care of and that all the people were cleared out.

    That second point actually bugs me
    Other than Luis pulling that one guard out, I don't remember any mass evacuation or any indication to the other people inside, including the many other guards that were punched out, that they should get out.
    Everyone who died was Hydra.

    :hydra:

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Cybertronian Paranormal Eliminator Registered User regular
    gavindel wrote: »
    The HYDRA tie in made sense to me. if you "Evil Industrialist looking to sell stolen super tech" in the paper, why wouldn't they answer?
    They should have brought AIM back, IMO.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    There were a lot of moments during the movie where I couldn't help but think "this would be even better if Edgar Wright had directed it and therefore had more interesting camera/edit work"

  • Toxic ToysToxic Toys Are you really taking my advice? Really?Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    -Loki- wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Also, there was one scene that was trying to have importance and weight to it that just didn't:
    Antony dying, it had no weight whatsoever. And this is from someone who never wants to see animals hurt at all and can't watch I Am Legend or Neverending Story again because of [/i]those scenes[/i], it was just whiff, nothing.
    I think that was kind of the point. It's an ant and there are hundreds like it right there. The overly-dramatic pan down of the wing was meta-humor.

    Anyway my feeling was that the film was pretty entertaining but you could definitely see the seams where they stitched in the MCU tie-ins to the Edgar Wright draft.
    I was sad when Antony died :(
    That's why you don't give them names!

    I said the same thing to my kid when we were talking about it.

    I thought it was a great movie. It didn't feel two hours long.

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler CORegistered User regular
    Is this where we talk about Ant-Man? Because Ant-Man was fucking great.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    The problem so far is surviving villains leads to "What do we do now?" with all its moral quandary or else "I'll get you next time!" saturday morning cartoon stuff.

    Just lock them away. If they can do it with the abomination and loki they can figure a way to hold the others. It's much easier to sell a "broke free or was broken out" to re-use a villain than bringing someone back from the dead.

    So far there's only a handful that are in a questionable state that could potentially come back.

    Speaking of, we need Justin Hammer to go through with his threat on Pepper.

  • Mr.SunshineMr.Sunshine Registered User regular
    The problem so far is surviving villains leads to "What do we do now?" with all its moral quandary or else "I'll get you next time!" saturday morning cartoon stuff.

    Just lock them away. If they can do it with the abomination and loki they can figure a way to hold the others. It's much easier to sell a "broke free or was broken out" to re-use a villain than bringing someone back from the dead.

    So far there's only a handful that are in a questionable state that could potentially come back.

    I'm hoping Red Skull would reappear being super villain bros with Thanos.

  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    And the big tie-in appeal to the other movies. the
    Falcon scene, it was so after the fact. Like, here's Mackie and Rudd, here's a field, we'll incorporate the CGI Avengers building later on, just fight for a minute please. My Spider-Sense tells me Lang was originally going to steal something from Stark at his house garage and cue lol funny scene with the robot dummy hand, but they didn't want to waste RDJ on this movie back when this whole ordeal was just achieving lift off money printing status.

    Gotta keep pumping him in all the movies for when he
    Takes over for captain america.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    There were a lot of moments during the movie where I couldn't help but think "this would be even better if Edgar Wright had directed it and therefore had more interesting camera/edit work"

    God I would hate that.

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    So, I've seen some people complaining here, and elsewhere about the new suit, so I just want to point out:
    The original Wasp suit was 100% fully contained in the flashback. I think it's safe to say that the new suit was legitimately incomplete and will probably be fully contained. Hopefully.

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Mvrck wrote: »
    So, I've seen some people complaining here, and elsewhere about the new suit, so I just want to point out:
    The original Wasp suit was 100% fully contained in the flashback. I think it's safe to say that the new suit was legitimately incomplete and will probably be fully contained. Hopefully.

    It'll could possibly not be contained, and be logic'd with forcefields or transparent material. Because women in comics.

  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Hey there's a pic of it out there!
    latest?cb=20150715141654

    Yeah, looks unfinished. Might be more reassuring if it had one complete arm. Wouldn't be surprised if the final version...
    incorporates Yellowjacket's design. It was a cool complement to the Ant Man suit, the glowing yellow grid stuff. Be nice if Wasp's suit is just that with a new helmet/wings.

    Tit armor ain't doing it for me. :P

    Oh brilliant
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    Whatever happens,
    I think that the Wasp outfit will be at least as form-fitting as the Ant-Man outfit.

    Hopefully, they don't try to take it further.

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Also, it needed more
    Wasp.


    Was it just me or was there a Wasp silhouette while he was going sub-atomic?
    Wasp went subatomic over the ocean somewhere. Since Scott re-emerged still in the bedroom, I'd think physical location still holds when you're that small.

    Biggest pet peeve with the whole subatomic thing: in both cases, someone had to get small enough to go between the titanium molecules, but after that they're still big enough to see and disable circuitry :P
    While the Wasp went subatomic over the ocean, we also had constant reminders that time and space don't matter when that small.


    If it was there, someone else will notice, I'm sure.
    It's pretty much Interstellar space, so just swing by a floating book case tesseract and love your way home or something.

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    gavindel wrote: »
    The HYDRA tie in made sense to me. if you "Evil Industrialist looking to sell stolen super tech" in the paper, why wouldn't they answer?

    Which makes me hope that some future film will have the formation of AIM.

  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    gavindel wrote: »
    The HYDRA tie in made sense to me. if you "Evil Industrialist looking to sell stolen super tech" in the paper, why wouldn't they answer?

    Which makes me hope that some future film will have the formation of AIM.

    I'd love to see them set that up. AoS is a great place to put that as well. Set up some remnants of Hydra butting heads with a newly re-surging AIM, with them possibly scalping off talent from them, etc.

    They don't need to be the main bad guys there, just set up some "new/old player in town" sort of situation.

  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    Thinking of AOS, I really wish that we could start seeing AOS agents appear in the movies. Not as major roles or anything. Just the kind of level of Coulson and his crew in the first Iron Man film. Now that SHIELD is "back," we should start to see SHIELD agents appearing, and why not use people from AOS?

    Mockingbird and Quake in particular should have roles outside of the show, however minor.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    gavindel wrote: »
    The HYDRA tie in made sense to me. if you "Evil Industrialist looking to sell stolen super tech" in the paper, why wouldn't they answer?

    Which makes me hope that some future film will have the formation of AIM.

    Technically, we already have AIM as of IM3, but they were a really poor showing of what Advanced Idea Mechanics is supposed to be.

  • a nu starta nu start Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Thinking of AOS, I really wish that we could start seeing AOS agents appear in the movies. Not as major roles or anything. Just the kind of level of Coulson and his crew in the first Iron Man film. Now that SHIELD is "back," we should start to see SHIELD agents appearing, and why not use people from AOS?

    Mockingbird and Quake in particular should have roles outside of the show, however minor.

    Ant-Man probably could have...
    used a Maria Hill or someone talking to Falcon to make it a little more organic, instead of feeling like a tacked on cameo to try and connect it to the rest of the MCU.

    Number One Tricky
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    gavindel wrote: »
    The HYDRA tie in made sense to me. if you "Evil Industrialist looking to sell stolen super tech" in the paper, why wouldn't they answer?

    Which makes me hope that some future film will have the formation of AIM.

    Technically, we already have AIM as of IM3, but they were a really poor showing of what Advanced Idea Mechanics is supposed to be.

    Centipede was the best not!AIM in the MCU.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    The movie was wonderful. Another success for Marvel, even if it doesn't get a sequel. Which I want
    with Hope as Wasp.

    It had solid story, and was on a smaller scale which is welcome. Everyone played their parts to perfection. Scott Lang isn't who I pictured as Scott Lang, it was Paul Rudd playing Scott Lang and it worked. He was likable, funny and intelligent. The movie knew not to take itself too seriously, which is for the best with its goofy premise. Despite that the serious scenes do have weight to them and the powers on display were imaginative. Weaponizing the bugs was amazing.

    Michael Douglas was brilliant.
    Being a cynical former spy for SHIELD he stole every scene. I liked how he controlled the bugs with technology to do things when he can't have the suit. Marvel needs to expand him through the MCU, in the past and present.

    Evangeline Lilly was fantastic as always. She never disappoints.
    To bad she disappears from the action when Cross becomes Yellowjacket.

    Michael Pena was charming, shows range in this movie.

    The callbacks and cameos were incredible.
    Falcon becoming a re-occurring plot point was enjoyable to watch. I wasn't sure who the actress/reporter was who spoke to him in the epilogue was, she was familiar. Couldn't place her.

    edit: She was Anna Akana.

    A lovely movie.

    Harry Dresden on
  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    There was one thing that kind of annoyed me.
    When Pym is telling Scott about going subatomic and he's just not getting it. This guy is supposed to have a masters in electrical engineering. Wouldn't he have some basic understanding of atoms and such? I know it's kind of exposition for the audience, but man, smarten the guy up a little.

  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    There was one thing that kind of annoyed me.
    When Pym is telling Scott about going subatomic and he's just not getting it. This guy is supposed to have a masters in electrical engineering. Wouldn't he have some basic understanding of atoms and such? I know it's kind of exposition for the audience, but man, smarten the guy up a little.
    I think I excused that as a "my brain is still trying to catch up with the last three crazy things you said" BSOD kind of moment.
    TexiKen wrote: »
    The kid who plays Cassie was great, so much better than Iron Man 3 kid.

    Man, I thought the IM3 kid was a lot better, especially on the second viewing (but then, I feel that way about the whole movie, so). Cassie was... adequate in the sense that with actors that young, you call it a win as long as they don't sound too fake.

  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    I thought the little girl was absolutely adorable, and that's really all she needed to be for the story.
    "it's so ugly! I love him!"

  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    Loved the movie, actually preferred it over Age of Ultron.

    One of the things I appreciated was that it expanded the MCU more culturally. Had a way more diverse cast and the initial San Francisco setting really set it apart.

    I'm hoping that Spider-Man follows in those footsteps as well.

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    One thing I wonder about the Edgar Wright change...
    Is if originally it was supposed to be more of a pure heist movie. It felt like 2/3's of a heist movie, and then halfway through the actual heist Marvel stepped in and replaced the last third with just a straight up fight. Like the initial job sets up a very different set of talents for Scott than anything that actually pays off in the end, and I refuse to believe Edgar Wright would've been that clumsy. Granted it still ended with a kinda silly fight. But it's a pattern we've seen before, like where The Wolverine switches from a modern day Tokyo samurai movie to Logan driving his motorcycle off to a goddamn ninja village.

    Also was it me or was the Falcon fight just noticeably way better shot and thought out than any of the later uses of Ant Man's powers? Especially the final fight they just spend almost the whole time shrunk, but don't even use that for anything except for a couple of visual gags. It really didn't have anywhere near the sense of scale or fun or cleverness.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Is it true that Lilly's role was expanded from Wright's script?

  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    One thing I wonder about the Edgar Wright change...
    Is if originally it was supposed to be more of a pure heist movie. It felt like 2/3's of a heist movie, and then halfway through the actual heist Marvel stepped in and replaced the last third with just a straight up fight. Like the initial job sets up a very different set of talents for Scott than anything that actually pays off in the end, and I refuse to believe Edgar Wright would've been that clumsy. Granted it still ended with a kinda silly fight. But it's a pattern we've seen before, like where The Wolverine switches from a modern day Tokyo samurai movie to Logan driving his motorcycle off to a goddamn ninja village.
    It's definitely hard to say. The wiki entry mentions that after Edgar left, Paul Rudd and Adam McKay did a pretty big rewrite on the whole script, but they also said that the story was primarily Edgar's. Edgar and Joe Cornish also got primary 'Story By' and 'Screenplay By' credits, which generally means that the majority of the script's content can be attributed to them. But Hollywood is rife with similar stories where the full extent of who's responsible for what basically never comes to light.

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