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[Heroes of the Storm] New heroes! Mode! Maps! Ruin friendships with Cho'gall!

LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
edited November 2015 in Games and Technology
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Latest Major Patch Notes
Newest Hero: Artanis, Hierarch of the Daelaam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44nAq9ygJCs

Official Definition:
Heroes of the Storm™ is a raucous online team brawler starring your favorite Blizzard characters. Build and customize heroes from across every Blizzard universe to suit your play style. Team up with your friends and engage in fast-paced mayhem across varied battlegrounds that impact strategy and change the way you play the game.

Alternate Definition:
Heroes is a MOBA-lite Team Brawler game in which you play as many characters from different Blizzard universes in 5v5 objective based team combat. The emphasis is on "objective based." There are currently 7 maps with more to come. Each features a unique map objective that is typically the key to victory. The team that manages to win the objectives is usually the team that wins. Heroes shares many gameplay elements in the MOBA genre with popular games like DotA2 and League of Legends, but it also drops a lot of the common trappings of the genre and has simplified down to a core game of action and fun.

Resources:
Official Site - Here you will find lots of basic material regarding the battlegrounds, heroes, news, and official events such as eSports events.
Heroes Nexus - A site dedicated to news, patch notes, and has a talent calculator and tons of images of hero skins and skin tints
Heroes Fire - A site with tons of good hero stats and a very good talent calculator. This is what most of us use when linking talent builds on the forum.
HotsLogs - A replay and ranking site. Uses player-uploaded replays to calculate MMR ratings. Note: Not entirely accurate, but still a decent source of info.

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What was Eternal Conflict?
Eternal Conflict was an ongoing "expansion event" that ran for about 3 months. It was a celebration of the Diablo universe in Heroes of the Storm, and over the course of the event Blizzard released new Diablo Heroes, Maps, Mounts, and Skins. The event is over now, but we all remember it with fondness and miss the extra gold generated by the Treasure Goblins that spawned at the beginning of matches during the event.

Coming Soon:
  • Artanis
  • Artanis Purifier Skin
  • Vulture Mount
  • Void Speeder Mount
  • Nexus Battle Beast (Blizzcon Goodie Bag Promotional item)
  • Bucaneer Falstad Skin
  • Headless Horseman's Charger Mount
  • Betrayer Steed Mount

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXlzocKSJmw

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As you play games in Heroes, you will level up two different things: your Player Level and a Hero Level. Experience you earn from playing game is applied to both accounts. Blizzard added "Stimpacks" to the game store. These Stimpacks are a limited time boost which grant extra Gold and XP while they are active. During holidays and special events Blizzard sometimes gives a bonus XP boost, which does stack with the Stimpacks. Also, there's a cap on experience gained from bot matches: roughly 2.25 Million experience a day.

Player Level is just an account rank. You get various features and goodies unlocked as you play. These are as follows:
  • Level2: 1,000 Gold
  • Level 4: 1,000 Gold
  • Level 6: Unlocks Daily Quests
  • Levels 8: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 10: A Seven-Day Stim Pack (+100% XP and Gold from games); 2,000 Gold
  • Level 12: Unlocks an additional slot in the free hero rotation
  • Level 15: Unlocks an additional slot in the free hero rotation
  • Level 20: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 25: Disables Hero Talent-Gating; 2,000 Gold
  • Level 30: Unlocked Ranked Mode; 2,000 Gold
  • Level 35: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 40: Unlocks Team League; 2,000 Gold

Daily Quests are small tasks the game gives you each day, and upon completion you get 200-800 gold (depending on the quest) for your effort (as an aside, you also get 30 gold for each win, and 20 for each loss). There are currently 4 categories of Daily Quests (Play 2 games with a specific franchise hero, Play 3 games as a specific role, Win 3 games, and Play 8 games in any mode).

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Hero Level is a series of unlocks for specific heroes. Each hero has their own level, and playing games with them will increase their level (alongside your player level). Here are hero unlocks:
  • Level 2: Unlocks your second Heroic Ability
  • Level 3: Unlocks Advanced Talents
  • Level 4: Unlocks Expert Talents
  • Level 5: 500 Gold
  • Level 6: Hero Portrait; Mount Tint #1
  • Level 7: Hero Tint #1
  • Level 8: Hero Tint #2
  • Level 9: Hero Master Portrait; Mount Tint #2; 750 Gold
  • Level 10: Allows purchase of Master Skin (10,000 gold)
  • Level 15: 1,000 Gold
  • Level 20: 2,000 Gold

Tutorial Videos - EXTREMELY Useful for new players

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Posts

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
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    What are some good newbie heroes?

    Assassin: Raynor, Warrior: Muradin, Support: Li Li, and Specialist: Nazeebo. Avoid Abathur, Rexxar, Murky, and the Lost Vikings as they have very atypical designs that are best played when you have more experience with the game.

    What's the best way to get experience?

    Quick Match. Practice has an experience penalty, and cooperative games are (on average) shorter than Quick Match games. This means you spend more time in queues when doing co-op whereas QM you are in the game earning XP (it's time-based for xp earned per game). There's also the 50,000 xp win bonus you get from QM that you can't from co-op. Hero and Team League are probably worse xp because you have to spend time picking heroes. The only reason to play co-op is because you just can't win in QM for a daily.

    What is the fastest way to get gold?

    There is none. First, do the tutorials. They don't net you a ton of gold, but it's a decent amount and worth spending ~30-45 minutes to get. From there, the least slow way is to do your daily quest (the game saves up to three quests so you can miss a day or two) and then play with friends on heroes you have not gotten to level five or nine with yet. Start with heroes you don't own yet, and then switch to owned heroes if you manage to get all seven free rotation heroes to level 5 or 9 within a week. That right there is about 5000 gold a week for the next month or so, not counting gold from account levels and games played. Once you hit 40 and have all heroes to level nine you can then do dailies (about 250 gold a day) and grind heroes to 15 and 20 for more gold, but the latter is a significantly longer process than getting a hero to level five or nine.

    Do not buy stimpacks. They are not worth the money unless you can play around 10+ games a day for a month straight. The seven-day stimpacks are even worse.

    Also, each week a hero is on sale for 50% off real-world money prices, so that's another option if you're willing to lay down hard cash on the game.

    When is the next patch?

    Patches have been on a fairly consistent seven-week cycle since launch. Basically a patch will go up on PTR for a week, then it goes live with a new hero. Three weeks later, the second hero in that patch is released but there are no changes baring minor bugfixes or something. Then three weeks after that the next patch goes up on PTR, and the cycle begins anews.

    How does the new hero pricing model work?

    All new heroes are released at a starting cost of 15k. This price will be in place for 2 weeks. After 2 weeks, the price drops to 10k. Beyond that, there is no set rule or guideline for when a hero will further drop in price. Blizzard has occasionally gone through and updated hero pricing on multiple heroes at once, (i.e. when they made Li Li a 2k hero and Arthas a 7k hero), but there's no hard rule for when older heroes get price drops.

    New Player Laning Tips!
    Here are some general tips for early game.

    --In Heroes, "laning" just means soaking XP. Laning also includes gathering the green Health Orbs for certain specs that take Regen Master or Conjurer's Pursuit. Laning also means trying to get the enemy towers to drain their ammo as fast as possible. Some heroes actually have a talent called "Demolitionist" which actively drains ammo. Other heroes can spawn extra units, which absorb extra shots, and contribute to draining towers faster.

    --The most important thing while "laning" is just to remain close enough to the minion kills to soak XP. You do not need to last hit, and in fact you do not need to do any damage at all. All you need is proximity.

    --During the opening minutes of the game (usually leading up till the first objective) is the laning phase. The laning phase in Heroes is quite short, and depending on the map, sometimes players never go back to full laning after the first objective spawn. This point is very map dependent. I'll cover general map laning guidelines lower in my post.

    --In the early stages of the game, the XP gained through minion kills outweighs the XP gained from player kills. It is a waste of time and effort to "first blood" an enemey just for an XP payout. That's not to say there isn't benefit to killing them. Making them respawn and run back certainly is helpful since it reduces their own XP gains and puts them at a disadvantage for defending gates and towers. But don't over extend, and don't make level 1 hero murder a priority, because it's better to just chill and soak XP from minions.

    --One last comment on laning before I dive into map specific details. Do not blow your entire mana-bar or get super beat up during the early-game laning phase. You will need that health and mana for the first objective on every map. If you show up to an objective with 2/3 health and 1/3 mana, you are hurting your team before the fight even starts. And there will be a fight.


    Ok. Map Specifics.


    Cursed Hollow
    --First Objective spawns in a random range of time between the 2:15 minute mark and 2:45. There's a 30 second spawn window for the first Tribute.
    --Laning phase on this map typically resets for the first 3 tributes. Even if one team doesn't earn all 3 tributes, by the time the 3rd tribute occurs, you want to start breaking out of lanes, capturing mercs, and playing more "globally" than lane-centric.
    --If you're playing with a coordinated team, the best lane distribution is 1-3-1. The reason for this is because the tribute spawns are randomized, and putting 3 in middle lane gives you the best reaction time to wherever the tribute spawns. If you're in a pug, generally people go the 2-1-2, which is actually quite terrible because it puts 2 dudes way out of position on the first tribute spawn.
    --A "good practice" on this map is to try to cap a merc camp right before a tribute spawns. Usually not the first tribute, since players are weak at that point and will get torn up by the mercs. But on the 2nd or 3rd tribute, you can put some pressure on a lane by snagging a camp just before the tribute spawns. That will force a decision by the enemy team. Do they send all 5 to the tribute, or do they hold one back to defend? Either way, it's a win for you. If they send all 5 to the tribute, you get free damage on a wall. If they hold one back, you have an easier team fight.

    Dragon Knight
    --First objective is set, I believe at the 2 minute mark, but it might be 2:30. I can't remember exactly off the top of my head.
    --Lane distribution you want 2-1-2 generally. I've seen some very successful plays where a team will go 3-1-1 when the shrines open, so they can secure one shrine and hopefully get a kill.
    --Don't feel rushed to immediately get the DK. The power of the DK scales with the duration of the game. The longer the game runs, the more powerful the DK gets. If you snag a DK at the 4 minute mark, It will be super weak. Sometimes it's better to intentionally stalemate until the 6-7 mark so that the first DK is more powerful.
    --I've also seen organized teams go 4-1-0 when the shrines activate, or 0-1-4. This allows them to completely consume a shrine and wipe the entire enemy force defending it. Then the 4 move to the opposite side and do the same thing.
    --Generally speaking, you want a ranged character or someone with a ton of staying power in the middle lane. Your goal in middle is simply to soak XP, grab the shrine if your team activates, and prevent an enemy capture if they activate.
    --One other strategy that is effective on this map for coordinated teams is a "middle wipe." Send several people to mid, kill their solo middle laner, and force the enemy team to redistribute, which weakens their position overall.
    --Lastly, a well timed giant camp can help you secure a DK capture. At around the 5-6 minute mark, if a couple people break off and grab their friendly-side giants on bottom, that extra pressure on the lane will force the enemy to react and weaken their position on the shrines.

    Blackheart's Bay
    --Lane setup should be 1-3-1, or 1-2-2. You want your team by the chests. On this map, top lane is the least significant lane for the first 10 minutes of the game. All you need is 1 person up there soaking XP. Everyone else should concern themselves with coins.
    --Due to the nature of the coin placement, and scattered coin camps around the map, this map is the least lane-centric of them all. You will find yourself barely in lane at all. You should be doing three things on this map at all times. 1) Defending captain against enemy turn ins. A great way to get coins is to steal them from the enemy. 2) Capturing coin camps. 3) Capturing mercenaries (which also give coins). The lanes will handle themselves on this map.
    --A common rookie mistake is to focus too much on laning on this map. Despite its relative size, this map is very combat heavy. Lots of action centers around the captain and you need to try to maintain vision on captain. Vision is extremely important on this map. It's always important, in general, but to a greater degree on this map. Heroes such as Tyrande, Tassadar, Zagara, and anyone else with Clairvoyance are of huge benefit on this map. You NEED to know where your enemy is, how many coins they have, and when they are attempting a turn in.


    Haunted Mines
    --For pickup games, 3-2 or 2-3 is preferred. In a team game, you want 4-1 or 1-4. Generally you want to put your 4 or your 3 on the lane in which the golem will spawn.
    --You can look at your base and see which lane your golem will take. He exists as a pile of bones at the base of your core at the start of the match. Top of the core is top lane, bottom of the core is bottom. Simple. Plan accordingly.
    --This map is the most "snowballish" map of them all. Even after the most recent patch, where they nerfed the relative strength of the first golem spawns, and closed the gap between golems of various sizes, the golem is still amazingly potent map objective.
    --Assuming you win the mines and your golem is stronger than your opponent's, you want 3 pushing with golem and 2 defending. Or 4 pushing, 1 defending, depending on the number of skulls collected.
    --Grabbing knights right after a golem spawns is also a good practice. They will put extra pressure on a lane and force your opponent to split defend. I'm fairly certain that the knights will always path to the lane opposite of your golem.


    Garden of Terror
    --Lane like normal til the first night cycle, which happens pretty fast. It's at like 1:30 that the warning is given and 2:00 that the seedlings spawn.
    --Generally 1-3-1 is best player distribution, for the same reason as on Cursed Hollow. This gives you the best mobility. You can move to top seeds or bottom seeds much easier with 3 in the middle. Your outside lanes will just soak XP.
    --Merc camps despawn when the plant terror is activated. However, the mercs don't despawn if they are actively engaged in combat. One of the best practices on this map (and other maps too) is to engage a merc camp or two right as your team is spawning a terror. That way you can split push multiple lanes.
    --Teams should move to support their plant terror for maximum objective pushing. However, it's also a common practice to leave 1 player in another lane to continue to soak and split push. If if you can get a merc camp plus a strong laning character like Zagara in a lane opposite your plant terror, you can do some really great damage to the enemy.


    Sky Temple
    --The first temple activations are ALWAYS the top and middle points. Always.
    --The second temple activation is always the bottom.
    --Additional temple activations after the first two are random
    --Starting lane configuration should be 2-2-1 or 1-3-1
    --After the first activation has run it's full duration, you should grab some camps and then reconfigure your lane distribution.
    --Second phase lane distribution should be 1-1-3 in anticipation of the bottom temple
    --If possible, try to secure a top lane bruiser camp right before the bottom temple activation. This bruiser camp will almost certainly go uncontested while the teams fight over bottom temple.


    Spider Queen
    --Middle lane is most important since it puts your players in range of both turn-in points
    --Top lane is least important at the start of the match since there are no mercenary camps up there (except boss, which won't come into play until later)
    --A good setup is 1-3-1 or 1-2-2.
    --Just like on other maps, grabbing a merc camp right before a turn-in is highly advisable. For the first turn-in, when players are still relatively weak, the bottom giant camp is the best choice. Throw some extra giants in with your webspinners and make a strong push on bottom.
    --The spider minions in each wave drop gems. During laning phase, your goal is to collect gems while denying your opponent their gems. Characters with area denial spells, such as Tassadar, Jaina, and Sgt Hammer are good for this. Also, tanks with strong knockback abilities such as ETC and Diablo are great on this map, as they can really help with denying enemy gem collection.

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    Unlike similar games, Heroes has a variety of maps with different layouts and objectives. Certain things remain the same (each lane has two towns then your core), but don't get complacent.
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    Two Lanes

    Haunted Mines features two layers: the top layer is your typically lanes and bases, and the bottom layer contains the mines. Every so often the mines populate with a boss golem and lesser minions. Killing these award skulls, and once they're all dead both teams summon a golem. The more skulls you get, the bigger your golem will be. The general strategy here puts less emphasis on the golem in the early game, as you instead grab merc camps. Because the golems spawn where they last died, getting skulls becomes more and more of a priority as the game drags on.

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    Three Lanes

    Blackheart Bay is a map that features pirates because it's 2014 and pirates are still a thing. The important thing is the pirate in the center of the map: killing mercs or randomly spawning chests will net you coins that you can pay Mr. Pirate to fire off cannons at the enemy town. The cost rises with each firing, making it a bit easier for the losing team to make a comeback. Carrying coins is risky because a player drops all of their coins when dead, so turn that shit in. Also, the pirates will start firing on your core if there are no other buildings left, so don't ignore the coins. This map is a bit weird since the objective is basically "on", so you have to constantly be watching the enemy. You can keep tabs on how many coins the enemy is carrying by hitting tab. You are typically safe if they need like 5+ coins for a turn-in and there aren't a lot of mercs/chests for them to bum off of.

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    Three Lanes

    Dragonshire has two shrines: a northern and southern one. The game will eventually yell at you to go grab them, at which point they will become active. By standing on one, a bar will fill to your team until you control it. Unsurprisingly, enemy players would rather you not do this, and can cancel you out by standing on the shrine alongside you. The bar, however, will keep filling so long as one side has more team members present, so the best option is to typically bringing two players to each shrine. Once you take over each shrine, a player clicks the dragon statue in the center, and so long as they aren't interrupted they will transform into a Ren-Faire Godzilla that can put the hurt on towns. The dragon has two skills: breath fire that does AoE damage on the ground for a duration, and boot an enemy far away. Use the former to wreck minions and burn down buildings while the latter will get players off your back. Attack towns. Attacks towns. ATTACK TOWNS. Only go for players if your intervention WILL save or kill someone. The dragon dies fairly quickly and at best will automatically die after a minute, so you need to get that damage in.

    You also don't have to kill yourself to get the dragon. If your push is strong and you can hold at least one shrine, then let the enemy keep throwing themselves against you. At some point enough enemy heroes will be dead and you can grab Mr. Dragon unopposed. I've seen too many games where people feel like they have to get the dragon RIGHT FUCKING NOW and their impulsiveness puts the group in really bad teamfights.

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    Three Lanes

    Cursed Hollow features perhaps one of the most important objectives on the map. The upside is that it's one of the most lenient objectives in terms of not condemning you all for one botched teamfight. Basically you have a little bird skull placed in a random spot in the jungle. If you channel without being hit for a few seconds, then you get the skull. Get three and the enemy team will be cursed: their lane minions are reduced to 1 HP and their towers will not fire. As you can see, this is really devastating because even lanes without heroes will naturally push and chip away at your towns. It's very important that your team shows up to contest these skulls, and you should basically be frantically pinging the spot where the skull is incoming. HOWEVER, if you have a really strong push going and the enemy team has 0-1 skulls (and you also have 0-1), then don't be afraid to commit to the push. If they send away someone to grab the skull, then they're going to be outnumbered when defending your push which can allow you to wipe them and win off that.

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    Three Lanes

    Garden of Terror is kinda like Haunted Mines and Dragonshire had a baby. Every so often, night will fall on the garden, reducing everyone's vision radius and spawning a bunch of plant monsters. Damaging (not just killing) these will cause seeds to drop, and once your team has 100 seeds a player can go to base and transform into a giant plant monster. You can't dilly dally, because the monster has about a minute before it wilts and can no longer be used by a player. So if nobody is grabbing that thing, then get inside it ASAP. Besides being really good at trashing buildings, they can shut down towers by spawning a destructible flower pot next to them and turn unwitting enemy players into weaker plant zombies.

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    Three Lanes

    Sky Temple has three temples, and every so often two will become active and the first team to go up to their activation point will turn them on for their side. These basically fire mercilessly at enemy towns, dealing tons of damage until they burn out and go dormant for a bit. The twist is that while you hold the temple, you will have to fend off waves of special creeps until the temple runs out of juice. This can lead you to be vulnerable to the enemy team, so watch out. Honestly the strategy is GET TEMPLES because they are overtuned right now and this map easily has the shortest games.

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    Tomb of the Spider Queen
    Three Lanes

    Instead of normal lane minions, Tomb has these metallic spiders sprinkled in that drop gems upon death for you to collect. There are two areas where you can deposit these gems, and upon depositing 50 gems for your team (doesn't matter into which area you deposit) you spawn a boss spider in each lane that will cast devastating shadow waves and spawn lesser spiders to eat up tower ammo. This map is fairly cramped with lots of vents blocking vision, so heroes that have good vision like Zagara or Tassadar are useful. Also, the spiders spawned by gems will travel down a lane until they encounter enemies units, so the further you push the closer they'll start to forts or keeps.

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    Battlefield of Eternity
    Two Lanes

    This map features two immortals fighting for each team. By beating the enemy immortal, your immortal will push the strongest of your opponent's lanes. Depending on how much HP they had when they won the fight, they will gain a shield that enables them to attack buildings at ranged until the shield is depleted. This map also features variants on standard mercs: replacing bruisers are two hellhounds and a fallen shaman that, while weaker, the hounds can be resurrected by the shaman, and three Khazra that, while having no splash damage and less HP than Siege Giants, deal more damage to buildings and attack faster.

    Cross Promotion!

    Play other Blizzard games? Then you can reap the rewards of bonus goodies! Note: items in italics are limited time offers, and items that are struck out were limited time offers that have expired.

    World of Warcraft

    WoW Character Level 100: Wolf Mounts (HotS)
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    Diablo 3

    Own Diablo 3: Unlock Diablo (HotS; expires Sept. 8th, 2015)
    Seasonal Character 70 (Season 4): Malthael's Phantom Mount (hots)
    HotS Account Level 12: Pennant and Player Border (D3)
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    Starcraft 2

    Preorder Legacy of the Void (any version): Unlock Artanis (HotS)
    Buy Legacy of the Void Collector's Edition: Void Seeker Mount (HotS)

    Hearthstone

    Win 100 Games: Hearthstone Card Mount (hots)
    HotS Account Level 12: HotS Themed Card Back (HS)

    Battletag List

    Type "/join heroes of the wang" in game to join our PA chat channel. Great for finding games!

    And here's a fun flow-chart showing how to play--
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    Sterica on
    Varethius
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Figgy wrote: »
    Supagoat wrote: »
    Drafting question... What do you choose in this case on Cursed Hollow where you're last pick on your team?

    Your team has picked: Tassadar,Valla,Johanna,Thrall
    Enemy has picked: Falstad,Zagara,Raynor,Brightwing

    I deliberated a bunch on it. Was thinking Tyrande for a long time, but ended up picking Jaina and then it occurred to me that Kharazeem might have also been a good pick.

    Enemy then picked Muradin.

    We won pretty handily... Their Raynor turned bot almost immediately and for the whole match, but honestly he played pretty similarly to most human Raynors. Tassadar is actually a kind of interesting pick for teams with squishies. Ours protected me well, and there was a game where I played against Hammer and Tassadar and crap that shield was just what Hammer needed to become nigh-invincible. At least early game.

    But what would YOU pick?

    Probably some heals. Kharazim would have been perfect.

    Honestly, an AI Raynor is no Raynor at all. He might go to objectives and cycle through his abilities while auto-attacking, but there are so many clutch moments a good Raynor pulls off that his absence is huge. The timing and positioning of his battlecruiser, when he decides to knock back, etc.

    Tassadar is a great support but he's no healer. He shines when he can focus on one (perhaps two) allies to get behind, but he can't keep a team alive when the chips are down. If Falstad, Zagara and Raynor were on point, I don't know that your team would have come out on top. At least on paper.


    I prob would have picked either Leoric (because Leo) or maybe even ETC.
    With that many squishies two warriors with good CC should be able to ignore mura and bully the backline pretty well.

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    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • FiggyFiggy Fighter of the night man Champion of the sunRegistered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    Figgy wrote: »
    Supagoat wrote: »
    Drafting question... What do you choose in this case on Cursed Hollow where you're last pick on your team?

    Your team has picked: Tassadar,Valla,Johanna,Thrall
    Enemy has picked: Falstad,Zagara,Raynor,Brightwing

    I deliberated a bunch on it. Was thinking Tyrande for a long time, but ended up picking Jaina and then it occurred to me that Kharazeem might have also been a good pick.

    Enemy then picked Muradin.

    We won pretty handily... Their Raynor turned bot almost immediately and for the whole match, but honestly he played pretty similarly to most human Raynors. Tassadar is actually a kind of interesting pick for teams with squishies. Ours protected me well, and there was a game where I played against Hammer and Tassadar and crap that shield was just what Hammer needed to become nigh-invincible. At least early game.

    But what would YOU pick?

    Probably some heals. Kharazim would have been perfect.

    Honestly, an AI Raynor is no Raynor at all. He might go to objectives and cycle through his abilities while auto-attacking, but there are so many clutch moments a good Raynor pulls off that his absence is huge. The timing and positioning of his battlecruiser, when he decides to knock back, etc.

    Tassadar is a great support but he's no healer. He shines when he can focus on one (perhaps two) allies to get behind, but he can't keep a team alive when the chips are down. If Falstad, Zagara and Raynor were on point, I don't know that your team would have come out on top. At least on paper.


    I prob would have picked either Leoric (because Leo) or maybe even ETC.
    With that many squishies two warriors with good CC should be able to ignore mura and bully the backline pretty well.

    But the enemy still has a pick left. Do you think just forcing a two-tank comp is a bit of waste?

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    They had no warrior before that. Mura was their only warrior. And if you force a two warrior comp, and do so with the best warriors (already had Jo, a Leo pick would pretty much force their warrior after Mura to be sub par) would win the draft.

    I just know recently going against a two warrior comp it felt absolutely hopeless without two yourself.

  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    Ya, Leo with his entomb or Mura with his hammer stun, comboed with Jo's AOE grab and slow would have made their squishies just melt post 10.

    MMMig on
    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    If I knew I was going against a Jo/Leo combo with Muradin, I would be pretty happy with either Arthas or Anub'Arak as my backup warrior. Sonya would also work if we had an Uther or something. Also, against multi warrior comps, assassins with high attack speed and Giant Killer can be devastating. Raynor, Valla, and Illidan all come to mind there. Thall also to a lesser extent, though maybe greater? I'm not that familiar with him.

    XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
    Battle.net: morgancoke#1589

    Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    The problem with a tank melter like Raynor or Valla is that it takes awhile to get to that point. And if they are down levels they NEVER get to that point. I played a raynor last night vs a very tanky comp and they did not let me get near anyone for long enough to get 3 shots off. Two Warriors can dive any ranged like that and kill them (or subdue them with CC) before they get to that point.

  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    Kai_San wrote: »
    The problem with a tank melter like Raynor or Valla is that it takes awhile to get to that point. And if they are down levels they NEVER get to that point. I played a raynor last night vs a very tanky comp and they did not let me get near anyone for long enough to get 3 shots off. Two Warriors can dive any ranged like that and kill them (or subdue them with CC) before they get to that point.

    What was your build for Raynor? My standard (and anti warrior build) is

    level 1: Seasoned Marksman
    level 4: Vampiric Assault
    level 7: Puttin' on a Clinic
    level 10: Hyperion
    level 13: Giant Killer
    level 16: Bullseye (but if you need to melt tanks, Berserk can be better here)
    level 20: A Card to Play (again, vs. tanks, Nexus Frenzy can do wonders, especially if you're getting dived hard, because of the huge range you have at that point - about 50% farther than most assassins, almost double guys like rexxar)

    Raynor can get +90% attack speed by level 20 if you build for it. Raynor can also be built surprisingly tanky if you go Give Me More!, Vampiric Assault, and Fight or Flight 1,4,7. He's just in a really good place right now.

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  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Thats pretty much my go to but I often take the one at 16 that does more to CCed players (exposed or whatever) as its most consistant. But I started looking into berserk as if you are going to Giant Killer people down, you want to do this. I would almost always take nexus frenzy at 20 because it makes it so you are NEVER in range of anything unless they dive for you. If you lasted this long, then they have not been diving for you. However if the map was going on forever and you need help pushing things down, I would take card.

    The issue is before 13 you pretty much are garbage in fights. Especially if barely anyone benefits from the attack speed. Plinking at normal damage from afar doesn't do much unless your team can simply outlast the other.

    The thing is in this game they hit level 10 when we were 7 and it never got better. It was also infernal shrines, so my marksmen stacks were garbage. It was not the best map pick I admit but I really have not figured out shrines yet. I think I did notice Jo is a SUPREME pick there. I got shrine the next game and took her and could just dominate. I think I gave up my life twice to get the punisher and it was well worth it. I started to notice I could have told my team to just push them out of the shrine and I could solo the spawns because KTP with the reduced CD on targets hit means I could hit 30 kills so fast it would make them cry.

  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    On shrines, it's all about the aoe. Picks are (roughly)

    1. Johanna.


    2. Leoric
    3. Mages
    4. Hammer
    5. Raynor (the zone from Hyperion is really useful at shrine fights)
    6. just anyone with good AOE damage

    The big gap between Jo and everyone else is because it's true. Knight Takes Pawn just demolishes an entire 10 count wave instantly. And jo is tough enough to hold out in the center grabbing stuff forever. Also, the map is currently bugged, the shrine minions don't scale in life as the game goes on. Hopefully that gets fixed in the next patch, and they tune down the later game punishers a bit. Especially Arcane.

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  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    double posts make me a sad panda

    morgan_coke on
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  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Yeah its about aoe... but survival as well. That was the mistake that first draft had because we took Kael AND Jaina and along with me on Raynor we just could be pushed off the shrines too easilly. You need beef and aoe. I think Sonya would be an ok pick if you took the better AOE damage on the slam. Christ even Illidan cause he can build fairly tanky later on.

  • cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    Damn, no love for the Gazlowe. He is insane on infernal shrines. Take the trait that lets turrets hit mulitple targets and they will take the objective mobs while you fight.

    Tim is on the InternetKhraulMMMig
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    I just wish Sonya's slam didn't require a target. I think I would like playing her a lot more if that was the case.
    Question from last thread:
    Figgy wrote: »
    Supagoat wrote: »
    Drafting question... What do you choose in this case on Cursed Hollow where you're last pick on your team?

    Your team has picked: Tassadar,Valla,Johanna,Thrall
    Enemy has picked: Falstad,Zagara,Raynor,Brightwing

    I deliberated a bunch on it. Was thinking Tyrande for a long time, but ended up picking Jaina and then it occurred to me that Kharazeem might have also been a good pick.

    Enemy then picked Muradin.

    We won pretty handily... Their Raynor turned bot almost immediately and for the whole match, but honestly he played pretty similarly to most human Raynors. Tassadar is actually a kind of interesting pick for teams with squishies. Ours protected me well, and there was a game where I played against Hammer and Tassadar and crap that shield was just what Hammer needed to become nigh-invincible. At least early game.

    But what would YOU pick?

    Probably some heals. Kharazim would have been perfect.

    Honestly, an AI Raynor is no Raynor at all. He might go to objectives and cycle through his abilities while auto-attacking, but there are so many clutch moments a good Raynor pulls off that his absence is huge. The timing and positioning of his battlecruiser, when he decides to knock back, etc.

    Tassadar is a great support but he's no healer. He shines when he can focus on one (perhaps two) allies to get behind, but he can't keep a team alive when the chips are down. If Falstad, Zagara and Raynor were on point, I don't know that your team would have come out on top. At least on paper.

    I would have went dragon lili (but cups ult). I've had 3 games with tyrande and my lili last night and we tore it up. Also that team is vulnerable to blinds.

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  • SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    Cool, thanks for the insight everyone.

    Haha man Kline, on that first infernal shrines I was KT and there was one shrine battle at top where I got to be OOM and at like 5% life and I hid in the smoke at the top of the shrine and they forgot about me. I watched them finish taking the punisher, then hearthed. It was hilarious.

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  • Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    edited September 2015
    On shrines, it's all about the aoe. Picks are (roughly)

    1. Johanna.


    2. Leoric
    3. Mages
    4. Hammer
    5. Raynor (the zone from Hyperion is really useful at shrine fights)
    6. just anyone with good AOE damage

    The big gap between Jo and everyone else is because it's true. Knight Takes Pawn just demolishes an entire 10 count wave instantly. And jo is tough enough to hold out in the center grabbing stuff forever. Also, the map is currently bugged, the shrine minions don't scale in life as the game goes on. Hopefully that gets fixed in the next patch, and they tune down the later game punishers a bit. Especially Arcane.

    Rexxar with Bird of Prey is amazing on Shrines. That talent one-shots all the Shrine minions. Combine that with Wildfire Bear for even more AoE at 13 (and it does a good deal of damage to heroes when battling in a clump around shrines). I always take those talents on Shrines and Spiders.

    Nazeebo is great on the map, too. His minion clear is decent, but where he really shines is at 10 with Ravenous Spirit. There are so many safe hiding spots around the shrines where you can safely drop that on the enemy team. It blows people up... blows 'em up goooooood.

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I've got a warrior quest in my log right now. I need to put down some more games on Rexxar. I felt like in the first few games I did with him, I actually did really okay. I was just hyper aware that Rexxar is super squishy and extremely vulnerable, and when you play with his survival at the forefront, he's not really a bad warrior. You just gotta position yourself in such a way that you don't get gibbed.

  • SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    Oh man, after fighting against Rexxar on Cursed Hollow..... I think there may just be a legitimate use for him. I think he soloed boss at 4. And then just kept running around doing it whenever they came up. You might think that'd be dangerous but the enemy was able to keep us on our back feet so much that we just couldn't spare the resources to go ambush him.

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I've been looking over Rexxar's talent tree here at work, and he seems like he's got a lot of really good and viable talent options.

    Just curious how people are building him to have the most success. Specifically in solo queue.

  • Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    edited September 2015
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I've been looking over Rexxar's talent tree here at work, and he seems like he's got a lot of really good and viable talent options.

    Just curious how people are building him to have the most success. Specifically in solo queue.

    If I'm going for a solo boss build (he can take them at 4, ideally at 7):

    http://www.heroesnexus.com/talent-calculator/57-rexxar#_TTURULUBUSUPU5AA

    But my go-to build for solo queue/team fights:

    http://www.heroesnexus.com/talent-calculator/57-rexxar#MUGURUJU7TAUCU5AA

    Mix and match as needed - like at 1 you can swap Flare for Hunter-Gatherer if the enemy team has no stealthies or you aren't on a particularly vision dependent map, or Aspect of the Hawk for Primal Intimidation at 16 if the enemy team has AA heroes.

    The only thing I don't like to do (that I see on a lot of players) is build for a tankier Misha. You already have one skill that is solely dedicated to healing her. It's more than enough to keep her alive if you watch your positioning and don't over-extend.

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  • Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    Weekly Sale Items for September 29 – October 6, 2015:

    Murky -- Sale Price: 4.19 EUR / 3.19 GBP
    Grunty Murky Skin -- Sale Price: 4.99 EUR / 3.69 GBP
    Magni Muradin Skin -- Sale Price: 4.99

    GRUNTY MURKY FINALLY MY LIFE IS COMPLETE THANK YOU BASED BLIZZARD!!!

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  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    So no news of the America's championship skins on sale?

    Was that a thing or just the heroes they'd won with?

    Grunty Murky may still be the best sale I've seen yet.... best skin evar

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Khraul wrote: »
    So no news of the America's championship skins on sale?

    Was that a thing or just the heroes they'd won with?

    Grunty Murky may still be the best sale I've seen yet.... best skin evar

    next week I thought?

    Dibby
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Khraul wrote: »
    So no news of the America's championship skins on sale?

    Was that a thing or just the heroes they'd won with?

    Grunty Murky may still be the best sale I've seen yet.... best skin evar

    next week I thought?

    I'm so impatient... I just want everything now.

    Gotta check my gamer privilege

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Weekly Sale Items for September 29 – October 6, 2015:

    Murky -- Sale Price: 4.19 EUR / 3.19 GBP
    Grunty Murky Skin -- Sale Price: 4.99 EUR / 3.69 GBP
    Magni Muradin Skin -- Sale Price: 4.99

    GRUNTY MURKY FINALLY MY LIFE IS COMPLETE THANK YOU BASED BLIZZARD!!!

    Oh hey, the exact two skins I've been asking to go on sale for months.

    Goodbye, money.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    @Lucascraft Suggestion to replace newbie friendly warrior in the FAQ with Muradin now that ETC's numbers are kind of low.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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    So It Goes
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Our Gazlowe running straight in to fight Jaina and Kerrigan on his own decided it must be Jaina hacking some how because "she can't do that much damage."

    God bless.

    MMMigSmrtnikRetabaOdin
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Lucascraft Suggestion to replace newbie friendly warrior in the FAQ with Muradin now that ETC's numbers are kind of low.

    Done.

  • Alucard6986Alucard6986 xbox: Ubeltanzer swtor: UbelRegistered User regular
    edited September 2015
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KePCgX8D9Uk

    Her Q does actually seem to heal pretty fast, and no cooldown/cast time is kinda crazy. Maybe to not make brightwing seem completely useless she can burn through mana really quickly if she just leaves it up all the time?

    just need to see the talents now

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  • SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    Looks pretty awesome. The medivac obviously has tremendous potential to alter gameplay (Wipe the enemy, get the 3rd tribute, and it happened to be one of the ones close to a boss? Take the boss, then medivac to the other boss and take THAT.) Obviously big implications for core rush - wipe the enemy, but are heavily damaged? Everyone hearth then medivac to the enemy core at full health and mana!

    The video illustrates how insane she'll be for melee and autoattack assassins. Haha and her Q on Khara with him having the heal trait is just too funny. Just like in TF2, the mantra will be "Kill the medic first!"

    Sounds like the grenade only detonates if it hits an enemy, though.

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  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    So the grenade is pretty much a combination of Raynor's Q and Tychus' grenade. Its a line shot that knocks back on it and away from the impact point. That is a somewhat unique approach to how to use it, but it really effectively does the same thing as Tychus'. However it is inferior to Tychus' because it can be body blocked where his can be pinpointed.

    After seeing that vid, the Illidan Boner is real. Just think of how godly Illidan can be with a non stop healing beam, a damage reduction, a 75% attack speed buff, and all his other junk. You are then adding in near infinate evasions (with shields!), excessively increased life drain from insane autos, the possibility of first aid and stoneskin... holy fuck. Then just throw in Aba for good measure. I think even Jo would drool at THAT survivability.

  • Tim is on the InternetTim is on the Internet On the Internet Edmonton, ABRegistered User regular
    I'm not able to watch the spotlight for a few hours. How close was yesterday's leak?

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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    No PTR today, although they did originally plan for it.

    YL9WnCY.png
  • SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    I'm not able to watch the spotlight for a few hours. How close was yesterday's leak?

    Spot on.

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    QuidSmrtnik
  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    I'm not able to watch the spotlight for a few hours. How close was yesterday's leak?

    it was completely accurate (it wasn't really a leak, it was an article that went up because the medic info was supposed to go up yesterday, but blizz was slow)

  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    I hope the dropship landing/delivery doesn't have an indicator, or it'll be a prebuilt wombo for an enemy team that's quick to react.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    I'm not able to watch the spotlight for a few hours. How close was yesterday's leak?

    100% accurate.

    I still think it was right to be skeptical, if you were skeptical (I sure was), simply because at the time there was no source or context.

    Now that it's all been officially confirmed, wow. WOW.

    She looks great. Stim Drone is going to be insane. Dang.

    DNiDlnb.png
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  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    It also looked like towers and forts were shooting at it, I wonder if it can be shot down and what happens if it is.

    Full team kill would be hysterical.

    Alucard6986
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Nobody wrote: »
    It also looked like towers and forts were shooting at it, I wonder if it can be shot down and what happens if it is.

    Full team kill would be hysterical.
    They've confirmed that the ship can be destroyed

    YL9WnCY.png
    Nobody
  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    Since they're re-using (basically) Muradin's trait on Morales, I got to thinking about other "traits" that are re-used and thought of Falstad/Brightwing having a "fly" option instead of mounts. Made me think of Tyreal and how he kinda needs a re-work. I mean, Tyreal already "flies" instead of walks anyways, so make that change with him, where he can "fly" to a friendly, add a level 20 "resurrect" talent like Uther has with his ghost, and give him Follow Through at 7 instead of Searing Attacks. That seems like it would make him much more "angelic" in that he's always showing up and saving someone with presence and shields, and would give kind of an "yeah, i'm and angel of justice who just smote you, now my sword hits harder" feel. Would also make his second ult dramatically more useful. Would also give him more of a "role" as the mobility warrior since he currently lacks stuns and high damage, but also lacks survival talents like Imposing Presence, Block, and Spell Shield.

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This discussion has been closed.