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Democratic Primary Debate #2: Hawks vs. Doves

StericaSterica YesRegistered User, Moderator mod
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I don't care about this OP, where do I watch it?

You can tune in to CBS on your TB or http://www.cbsnews.com/ on your computer. There's also the CBS News apps for iOS and Android if you want a mobile option.

What time?

9pm EST and running for two hours.

What the topic?

In light of yesterday's attacks in Paris, it looks like terrorism and foreign policy are going to take over the debate's original topic of the economy. It's remains to be seen whether or not they're doing a total topic change or just dedicating a chunk of the debate to it, but Paris is definitely going to be a subject.

Who's going to be there?

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Hillary "Hilldawg" Clinton

Hillary's first debate was considered a major coup for her campaign, proving that the email scandal and scores of Benghazi committees haven't hurt her as much as her opponents might suggest. However, the primaries haven't even started yet, and polls today are not indicative of polls come Super Tuesday, and tonight could be a way for her to convince holdouts to drop Sanders and join the Hillary crew. This is also an opportunity to show that she's learned from her mistakes regarding Iraq and basically terrorism last decade, showing a less hawkish side and that politicians do change.

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Bernie "Feel the Bern" Sanders

Sanders showed that he was definitely not backing down in the first debate. He was full of piss and vinegar that night, something that no doubt got his base fired up. While he didn't do as well as Hillary, he did show staying power and let everyone know that he's the man Hillary has to beat. Sanders is very proud of going against the grain (stored in Egyption pyramids) in regards to the War on Terror, so expect Sanders to beat up Hillary on that angle if she decides to take a more aggressive, militaristic stance against terrorism.

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O'Malley, why are you still here?

The first debate was swift in axing the other candidates, but O'Malley couldn't take a hint so he's showing up I guess.

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    Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    O'Malley didn't do anywhere near as bad as the other two also-rans, though not well enough to be a real contender. i imagine he's hoping for the VP spot on the winners ticket* or at least a cabinet position.

    *Hillary looks likely to give Castro the nod though. not sure if Bernie would also want to go more diverse if he comes out on top.

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    notdroidnotdroid Registered User regular
    Wraith260 wrote: »
    O'Malley didn't do anywhere near as bad as the other two also-rans, though not well enough to be a real contender. i imagine he's hoping for the VP spot on the winners ticket* or at least a cabinet position.

    *Hillary looks likely to give Castro the nod though. not sure if Bernie would also want to go more diverse if he comes out on top.

    O'Malley is also young - staying in the race for a little while can give him more name recognition and media exposure for the next time around.

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    I don't think O'Malley thinks he has a realistic shot at president but pretty much loses nothing at all by running and stands to possibly gain a good bit by staying in.

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    Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    yeah, his closing statement at the last debate gave me the distinct impression that he knows he isn't gonna win but think he can do some good by getting the race/raising his profile.

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    VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    edited November 2015
    I just don't think there are good answer to the questions that are going to be asked tonight. Because all the choices suck.

    The best answer, for me, is wait for details and facts to emerge before deciding anything. But that's lousy TV, and easily attacked as indecisive.

    VishNub on
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    Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    I just don't think there are good answer to the questions that are going to be asked tonight. Because all the choices suck.

    The best answer, for me, is wait for details and facts to emerge before deciding anything. But that's lousy TV, and easily attacked as indecisive.

    i imagine this will be the preface to at least one response, but yeah they're going to have to give more than that because they have to show that they're giving thought to all possible scenarios, even the most remote ones.

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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited November 2015
    I can't imagine Hillary not dominating that topic and I have no idea what Omalley can even pretend to contribute to it

    I thought he did well in the first if only because he had a unique voice (which the former republican dude didn't) that people liked (where as webb stood out in a bad way). He's passionate about a deeply important topic and has experience from the right place to speak on it well.

    edit - just watched the stream for a few seconds and now I'm really disturbed that I posted about this like a strategic point in a debate. They're doing it too but I am really going to just tune out til it starts. I am curious what they say because I think we can learn about what is really likely to happen but angling on it for points is upsetting.

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    I don't think O'Malley thinks he has a realistic shot at president but pretty much loses nothing at all by running and stands to possibly gain a good bit by staying in.

    Especially if he continues to realize that he isn't going to win and so remains civil throughout. Mostly focusing on policy details to push things in a better direction. Or at least have more of a contrast with the yuuuuge grain solo debate on the other channel.

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    Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    i expect Hillary will dominate, but this being a primary and the concern being shoring up the progressive/liberal vote it could also hurt her if she's seen as being to aggressive. even after the events in Paris.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I don't think it'll hurt too much in the larger Democratic electorate if her preference is for something robust. Among the most hardcore activists, maybe.

    Because frankly it feels like we are going to have go in and eliminate those fuckers, it's just what we do 1) when that runs us up to Assad? 2) Afterwards that are the real questions in my mind.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    LadaiLadai Registered User regular
    "What's the best way to make sure no one watches our debate?"
    "Schedule it for a Saturday night!"

    I mean, I get it. The DNC wants to limit Clinton's exposure before the general. However, stuff like this doesn't exactly make them look good.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    We all know the DNC is incompetent.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    I bet they don't even have an extra podium for Biden.

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    RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    Ladai wrote: »
    "What's the best way to make sure no one watches our debate?"
    "Schedule it for a Saturday night!"

    I mean, I get it. The DNC wants to limit Clinton's exposure before the general. However, stuff like this doesn't exactly make them look good.

    This is sarcasm right?

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    LadaiLadai Registered User regular
    n

    no?

    I mean, I'm far from the first person to suggest that the DNC's debate schedule is pretty much designed to shield Clinton as much as possible. Hell, other Democrats have complained about this very thing.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    I bet they don't even have an extra podium for Biden.

    But can the extra podium lectern beat the empty chair?

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    I don't doubt some people somewhere have said that.

    But between the eleven hour witch hunt and the first debate it's pretty clear she doesn't need shielding.

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    fuck you cbs. i can see the mini box of the live stream. it's right there. but if I click on it?
    "page not found"

    why you hate me, american new media.

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    SealSeal Registered User regular
    edited November 2015
    What is the minimum number of hours Hillary needs to stand behind a lectern before it's not thought of as shielding her from public scrutiny?

    Seal on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    I don't doubt some people somewhere have said that.

    But between the eleven hour witch hunt and the first debate it's pretty clear she doesn't need shielding.

    Won't stop DWS from doing stupid things.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    fuck you cbs. i can see the mini box of the live stream. it's right there. but if I click on it?
    "page not found"

    why you hate me, american new media.

    If it's like CNN it literally won't go up til nine.

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    LadaiLadai Registered User regular
    edited November 2015
    I don't think she needs shielding either. But the dust-up about the debate schedule was a pretty big deal last summer. Granted it was mostly about the limited number of debates than about this one being on a Saturday night. Sanders, O'Malley, Pelosi and others have all criticized the schedule. Wasserman Schultz was even heckled about it from other Democrats in September.

    Ladai on
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    Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    i think Ladai means more that they're trying to avoid over saturation rather than to protect Hillary. to avoid adding to the already high amount of media attention she gets so that come the general people aren't completely sick of hearing about her. most likely that ship has sailed, but i could understand them not wanting to contribute to any possible Clinton fatigue that might manifest over the next year.

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    fuck you cbs. i can see the mini box of the live stream. it's right there. but if I click on it?
    "page not found"

    why you hate me, american new media.

    If it's like CNN it literally won't go up til nine.

    Well I guess lucky me then cause it means i can avoid talking heads.

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    LadaiLadai Registered User regular
    edited November 2015
    Wraith260 wrote: »
    i think Ladai means more that they're trying to avoid over saturation rather than to protect Hillary. to avoid adding to the already high amount of media attention she gets so that come the general people aren't completely sick of hearing about her. most likely that ship has sailed, but i could understand them not wanting to contribute to any possible Clinton fatigue that might manifest over the next year.

    Yes, this. Also to limit the number of opportunities to let out any big gaffes too I suppose. "Shield" was a poor choice of word.

    Ladai on
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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Seal wrote: »
    What is the minimum number of hours Hillary needs to stand behind a lectern before it's not thought of as shielding her from public scrutiny?

    Heat death of the universe?

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    HandgimpHandgimp R+L=J Family PhotoRegistered User regular
    edited November 2015
    http://www.cbsnews.com/live/?ftag=CNMe94798 for direct link

    e: watching now

    Handgimp on
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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Wow, I just had my first "I feel old" moment, when people were talking about following twitter on their phone. And I'm not even close to old.

    I ate an engineer
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    never dienever die Registered User regular
    Okay, here we go!

    I'm honestly excited, I feel like real things are going to get discussed.

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    "Has it been a minute yet?"

    "I dunno."

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I legitimately do not need fucking livetweets and hot tweet data about this debate.

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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited November 2015
    Seal wrote: »
    What is the minimum number of hours Hillary needs to stand behind a lectern before it's not thought of as shielding her from public scrutiny?

    Well do we really know her? She's only had effectively 100% national name recognition for 25 years and she's only participated in 28 Presidential debates

    PantsB on
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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    I legitimately do not need fucking livetweets and hot tweet data about this debate.

    Why do you hate America?

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    This seems in mildly bad taste from CBS.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    If Sanders comes at Clinton hard on hawkishness I think it'll be ineffective and if tries to blame ISIS on her that will look horrible for him.

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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    This seems in mildly bad taste from CBS.
    Twitter is sponsoring it, so I imagine they had to.

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    ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    No buzzers? Madness!

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I love these increasingly complex timers that will inevitably get ignored.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Bernie... transitioning from France to your usual stump is not a great look.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Bernie are you pivoting in the opening statement?

    I ate an engineer
This discussion has been closed.