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Militia takes over Federal Build in Oregon: America continues to America
It is sad how the media treats Black lives matter vs the Bundy crew. One person spits on a cop at a black lives matter rally "Rally turns violent!" Armed white people take over a building to prevent justice from being carried out? "peaceful protest occupies building". And people wonder why black people don't view America favorably.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Who really cares about a building in the middle of nowhere
Sue them for theft, and when they fail to respond to summons, take their property as payment. Raze it over and build a new federal building.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I doubt the feds will be nearly as lenient this time, even if they still don't pursue a militant solution (esp. in a crucial election year, you don't want to come off as heavy-handed and legitimize this geese), they will make sure that every last one of these people and those who aided and abetted them will get the book thrown at them and do 5-15 in federal prison, and that any firefight started will have been started by them.
Cut cell, cut power, cut water, bring in a big ass wall to put around the facility so that they can't even see outside. Toss in a walkie talkie and tell them that the wall will be removed upon their unconditional surrender.
Who really cares about a building in the middle of nowhere
Sue them for theft, and when they fail to respond to summons, take their property as payment. Raze it over and build a new federal building.
Its the precedence that's the problem. The fed did nothing about Bundy and now we have a new Bundy, this time they occupied a federal building, you can't keep letting these assholes do dangerous things and hope things work themselves out. Also this kind of shit inspires the "isolated incident" white male shooter we get every once in a while as well.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
If you want to whine about how people are conducting themselves here go to any other social media site and check the thread/comments on the topic and get some perspective.
Who really cares about a building in the middle of nowhere
Sue them for theft, and when they fail to respond to summons, take their property as payment. Raze it over and build a new federal building.
Its the precedence that's the problem. The fed did nothing about Bundy and now we have a new Bundy, this time they occupied a federal building, you can't keep letting these assholes do dangerous things and hope things work themselves out. Also this kind of shit inspires the "isolated incident" white male shooter we get every once in a while as well.
The problem here is that this is all backwoods stuff, nobody really cares about it.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Let's presume that the feds do the siege thing and there is a peaceful resolution (in which everyone inside that building is arrested).
What are the odds that anyone involved in the previous incident on the Bundy land faces charges for that, too?
Zero. They haven't done shit to Bundy, why would they bother now? This is one facet I'm annoyed with the Obama admin. And before someone equates this to the Fed ignoring federal marijuana laws in states that voted to legalize fuck you not even the same thing, no state voted to let Cliven Bundy do whatever the fuck he wants.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Who really cares about a building in the middle of nowhere
Sue them for theft, and when they fail to respond to summons, take their property as payment. Raze it over and build a new federal building.
Its the precedence that's the problem. The fed did nothing about Bundy and now we have a new Bundy, this time they occupied a federal building, you can't keep letting these assholes do dangerous things and hope things work themselves out. Also this kind of shit inspires the "isolated incident" white male shooter we get every once in a while as well.
The problem here is that this is all backwoods stuff, nobody really cares about it.
This is my state and our Federal government involved here. People live in that county and work in that building. Don't be a goose, of course this matters and people care. Do you really not get what these guys are trying to do? We can't just ignore them.
I think the military is the most likely organization to have a bunch of Oathkeepers that might break ranks and join up with them. Especially the national guard. Even if that wasn't the case I think its bad optics. I don't know what the best way to resolve this situation is, but I'm skeptical that any kind of violent resolution is going to look like a good idea after the fact.
The police have Oath Keepers too, and if the Oath Keepers have compromised the military that much the American government has bigger problems then these idiots.
What kind of people join the military? A simple answer is people that like guns/war. A lot of those people join the military, and then radically change their opinion of the government after becoming part of it, either because of their experience with it or exposure to new information. Timothy McVeigh for example served in the military before he bombed Oklahoma city.
Which also happens with the police. That's how we get Sheriff Arpaio's and RAMPART.
I can't comment on Arpaio, but Rampart didn't happen because the cops involved were all macho men who loved guns and feared change. Rampart happened because a bunch of cops were put together and told to fight gang crime using any means necessary and were basically corrupted by the power they were given and took everything too far. The general police culture of 'us vs them' was a pretty big factor and it didn't take a specific kind of person to get the ball rolling. Just a slight nudge that greed usually provides.
Yeah as someone who hopes to live out in the country somewhere later in life I would greatly appreciate it not being somewhere people can do whatever they want.
While my initial post was a hot headed overreaction to some of the comments I was reading at the time. I still find it disturbing that some would advocate a solution that has been proven to disastrous for the government in the past. These people need to be prosecuted and made an example of (I'm talking real jail time) if this actually happens will be the question. I will say them being lead out in handcuffs instead of being shot dead will make them look worse in the long run. It's also interesting that the types of shit heads that glorify this type of government stand off are backing away from this as fast as they can. Maybe this will do some damage to these groups as a result?
I understand the Waco and Ruby Ridge comparisons, I really do.
But these guys aren't a suicidal cult.
Ruby Ride was a one-off fuck up. An entire generation of Federal Law Enforcement has studied that mess as a prime example of what not to do.
Those two events should not have paralyzed federal law enforcement for twenty years when dealing with militias and white supremacists.
The people who should handle this aren't some bumfuck cops who want to play soldier, and we know how to cut utilities and put a perimeter around a building.
Wait them out, and laugh at how it only took x days of them shitting in buckets to give up.
Then throw them in jail for 5-10.
Amd do the same thing to the next set of dumbasses and so on until this stupid spoiled ranchers get over themselves and stop acting like traitors because they didn't get the free grazing rights handout from the federal government. Ultimately, these guys are taking up guns because they aren't getting enough welfare. And grazing rights on federal land is already a hell of a gimme.
Who really cares about a building in the middle of nowhere
Sue them for theft, and when they fail to respond to summons, take their property as payment. Raze it over and build a new federal building.
Its the precedence that's the problem. The fed did nothing about Bundy and now we have a new Bundy, this time they occupied a federal building, you can't keep letting these assholes do dangerous things and hope things work themselves out. Also this kind of shit inspires the "isolated incident" white male shooter we get every once in a while as well.
The problem here is that this is all backwoods stuff, nobody really cares about it.
This is my state and our Federal government involved here. People live in that county and work in that building. Don't be a goose, of course this matters and people care. Do you really not get what these guys are trying to do? We can't just ignore them.
Your state, your county, your local concerns. It is a building out in the middle of the woods whose function is inessential to everyday life and not generalizable to the generalpopulation. Unlike Waco, no deaths happened to trigger this. Kill one guy, get one guy killed, and suddenly is interesting.
Federal property has been seized and they're all anxious to kill and die their way into history. Why satisfy them when there's a perfectly good system of litigation that can be used to screw them over if they don't play ball? They value property over their lives, that is what we continue to fail to get. Well we can seize property too.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Who really cares about a building in the middle of nowhere
Sue them for theft, and when they fail to respond to summons, take their property as payment. Raze it over and build a new federal building.
Its the precedence that's the problem. The fed did nothing about Bundy and now we have a new Bundy, this time they occupied a federal building, you can't keep letting these assholes do dangerous things and hope things work themselves out. Also this kind of shit inspires the "isolated incident" white male shooter we get every once in a while as well.
The problem here is that this is all backwoods stuff, nobody really cares about it.
This is my state and our Federal government involved here. People live in that county and work in that building. Don't be a goose, of course this matters and people care. Do you really not get what these guys are trying to do? We can't just ignore them.
Your state, your county, your local concerns. It is a building out in the middle of the woods whose function is inessential to everyday life and not generalizable to the generalpopulation. Unlike Waco, no deaths happened to trigger this. Kill one guy, get one guy killed, and suddenly is interesting.
Federal property has been seized and they're all anxious to kill and die their way into history. Why satisfy them when there's a perfectly good system of litigation that can be used to screw them over if they don't play ball? They value property over their lives, that is what we continue to fail to get. Well we can seize property too.
If you can't enforce the law saying they can't seize federal property how the hell are you planning to enforce the law allowing them to be litigated?
Who really cares about a building in the middle of nowhere
Sue them for theft, and when they fail to respond to summons, take their property as payment. Raze it over and build a new federal building.
Its the precedence that's the problem. The fed did nothing about Bundy and now we have a new Bundy, this time they occupied a federal building, you can't keep letting these assholes do dangerous things and hope things work themselves out. Also this kind of shit inspires the "isolated incident" white male shooter we get every once in a while as well.
The problem here is that this is all backwoods stuff, nobody really cares about it.
This is my state and our Federal government involved here. People live in that county and work in that building. Don't be a goose, of course this matters and people care. Do you really not get what these guys are trying to do? We can't just ignore them.
Your state, your county, your local concerns. It is a building out in the middle of the woods whose function is inessential to everyday life and not generalizable to the generalpopulation. Unlike Waco, no deaths happened to trigger this. Kill one guy, get one guy killed, and suddenly is interesting.
Federal property has been seized and they're all anxious to kill and die their way into history. Why satisfy them when there's a perfectly good system of litigation that can be used to screw them over if they don't play ball? They value property over their lives, that is what we continue to fail to get. Well we can seize property too.
If you can't enforce the law saying they can't seize federal property how the hell are you planning to enforce the law allowing them to be litigated?
They can't be in two places at once is how
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Who really cares about a building in the middle of nowhere
Sue them for theft, and when they fail to respond to summons, take their property as payment. Raze it over and build a new federal building.
Its the precedence that's the problem. The fed did nothing about Bundy and now we have a new Bundy, this time they occupied a federal building, you can't keep letting these assholes do dangerous things and hope things work themselves out. Also this kind of shit inspires the "isolated incident" white male shooter we get every once in a while as well.
The problem here is that this is all backwoods stuff, nobody really cares about it.
This is my state and our Federal government involved here. People live in that county and work in that building. Don't be a goose, of course this matters and people care. Do you really not get what these guys are trying to do? We can't just ignore them.
Your state, your county, your local concerns. It is a building out in the middle of the woods whose function is inessential to everyday life and not generalizable to the generalpopulation. Unlike Waco, no deaths happened to trigger this. Kill one guy, get one guy killed, and suddenly is interesting.
Federal property has been seized and they're all anxious to kill and die their way into history. Why satisfy them when there's a perfectly good system of litigation that can be used to screw them over if they don't play ball? They value property over their lives, that is what we continue to fail to get. Well we can seize property too.
If you can't enforce the law saying they can't seize federal property how the hell are you planning to enforce the law allowing them to be litigated?
They can't be in two places at once is how
I don't even
A militia is more than one person of course they fucking can.
Who really cares about a building in the middle of nowhere
Sue them for theft, and when they fail to respond to summons, take their property as payment. Raze it over and build a new federal building.
Its the precedence that's the problem. The fed did nothing about Bundy and now we have a new Bundy, this time they occupied a federal building, you can't keep letting these assholes do dangerous things and hope things work themselves out. Also this kind of shit inspires the "isolated incident" white male shooter we get every once in a while as well.
The problem here is that this is all backwoods stuff, nobody really cares about it.
This is my state and our Federal government involved here. People live in that county and work in that building. Don't be a goose, of course this matters and people care. Do you really not get what these guys are trying to do? We can't just ignore them.
Your state, your county, your local concerns. It is a building out in the middle of the woods whose function is inessential to everyday life and not generalizable to the generalpopulation. Unlike Waco, no deaths happened to trigger this. Kill one guy, get one guy killed, and suddenly is interesting.
Federal property has been seized and they're all anxious to kill and die their way into history. Why satisfy them when there's a perfectly good system of litigation that can be used to screw them over if they don't play ball? They value property over their lives, that is what we continue to fail to get. Well we can seize property too.
Federal property being seized is everyone's concern. This isn't local. These people are committing sedition against the US Government. A lawsuit while they sit pretty (and actively work towards more sedition and treason) is unacceptable.
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
In not sure the legality of just straight up seizing their assets (taking their homes and vehicles)
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
Complicit how? "Agreeing with idiots" isn't in itself a crime.
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
I'm going to go with as at least as well defended as the office building they had no influence on.
How are you even going to seize the property? If you can't spare people to go surround and eventually retake a government building you sure as hell don't have the people needed to go seize and maintain government control of several more. Your suggestion is nonsensical, completely unworkable logistically, and dismissive of people who actually live in the area.
Edit: Never mind the fact that you're still opting to selectively enforce the law!
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
I don't think they are necessarily complicit, no. They may very well be in most cases but a spouse back home might not have approved of or be aiding them in any way.
Unless you're a "bomb the home of the terrorists families" type.
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
In not sure the legality of just straight up seizing their assets (taking their homes and vehicles)
Civil Asset Forfeiture is actually very lightly regulated. It's also pretty fucked up, but still current law.
If you guys can't pull your shit together re: repeatedly advocating murder in this thread, it'll be shut down and the offending parties will be jailed or banned. It's fucking disgusting, get a grip.
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
I'm going to go with as at least as well defended as the office building they had no influence on.
How are you even going to seize the property? If you can't spare people to go surround and eventually retake a government building you sure as hell don't have the people needed to go seize and maintain government control of several more. Your suggestion is nonsensical, completely unworkable logistically, and dismissive of people who actually live in the area.
Edit: Never mind the fact that you're still opting to selectively enforce the law!
Well if you can't spare people to surround and retake the building, then you can't take that option anyway. Unless you're saying that I'm assuming that, which I'm not. I'm saying that this occupation is a symptom of a larger problem and rolling in there will not deter them. Especially if they can afford to defend all their other properties with equal rigor, which I doubt.
I understand that the sovereignty of the federal government over all its properties is at stake here, but the immediate impact is purely local, and I dismiss it because I'm trying to capture public opinion and reaction. A firefight will be agreed to be poorly handled and, as we already know, will not prevent another seizure. How can we best limit their assets for the long term?
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
In not sure the legality of just straight up seizing their assets (taking their homes and vehicles)
Civil Asset Forfeiture is actually very lightly regulated. It's also pretty fucked up, but still current law.
Yes, do that, do that a lot. Then if people get outraged at this overreach it'll be two birds with one stone.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
In not sure the legality of just straight up seizing their assets (taking their homes and vehicles)
Civil Asset Forfeiture is actually very lightly regulated. It's also pretty fucked up, but still current law.
Most likely their property and major assets are owned by their bank so couldn't be touched directly.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
They can take your car if you're still paying for it, why would your house be any different?
In case of a home, land, or vehicle that is currently still being paid for (via loan, mortgage, etc...) any such collection of assets must be initiated by the bank that provided the funding for the initial purchase. Until the lender/bank files a motion for repossession/foreclosure, the government or a licensed contractor can't legally collect.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
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MeeqeLord of the pants most fancySomeplace amazingRegistered Userregular
Has law enforcement of any variety put out a statement on this? I haven't seen one anywhere, and it is crazy to me that no one in govt has said anything about this yet.
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
Has law enforcement of any variety put out a statement on this? I haven't seen one anywhere, and it is crazy to me that no one in govt has said anything about this yet.
Holiday weekend, pretty much every level of government is running on a skeleton crew right now. Response times will be slow and plodding.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
Has law enforcement of any variety put out a statement on this? I haven't seen one anywhere, and it is crazy to me that no one in govt has said anything about this yet.
It is New Years weekend. Most people in charge are sleeping off the weekend and would rather deal with it on Monday.
Has law enforcement of any variety put out a statement on this? I haven't seen one anywhere, and it is crazy to me that no one in govt has said anything about this yet.
The local sheriff:
"After the peaceful rally was completed today, a group of outside militants drove to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, where they seized and occupied the refuge headquarters. A collective effort from multiple agencies is currently working on a solution. For the time being please stay away from that area. More information will be provided as it becomes available. Please maintain a peaceful and united front and allow us to work through this situation."
And schools are closed all week out of fear of armed nutjobs or something.
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
I'm going to go with as at least as well defended as the office building they had no influence on.
How are you even going to seize the property? If you can't spare people to go surround and eventually retake a government building you sure as hell don't have the people needed to go seize and maintain government control of several more. Your suggestion is nonsensical, completely unworkable logistically, and dismissive of people who actually live in the area.
Edit: Never mind the fact that you're still opting to selectively enforce the law!
Well if you can't spare people to surround and retake the building, then you can't take that option anyway. Unless you're saying that I'm assuming that, which I'm not. I'm saying that this occupation is a symptom of a larger problem and rolling in there will not deter them. Especially if they can afford to defend all their other properties with equal rigor, which I doubt.
I understand that the sovereignty of the federal government over all its properties is at stake here, but the immediate impact is purely local, and I dismiss it because I'm trying to capture public opinion and reaction. A firefight will be agreed to be poorly handled and, as we already know, will not prevent another seizure. How can we best limit their assets for the long term?
That larger problem is people can seize government property and nothing happens. We do not live in local bubbles. The seizure of federal land affects all of us. Police going to investigate and potentially seizing it legally is fine. Ignoring them to keep a building "in the middle of nowhere" does not help.
Usually when it comes to the internet I use the phrase "I wish I could be surprised" but I actually am surprised at the bloodthirst presented in this thread.
I mean, if you're going to advocate a military assault on what appears to be a park visitor's center, I really can't think of a better way to describe it.
And I always considered you guys a bunch of hippies, jesus.
I'm not surprised at the bloodthirst to be honest. Especially not when it involves conservatives or Republicans. Standards seem to go out of the window as soon as it involves the "enemy".
These terrorists could be left wing hippies who believe in everything I do, and my option wouldn't change one iota. This isn't about political ideology, it's about terrorism. And if you think conservatives/right wing wouldn't be baying for blood if this was arabs from the Middle East doing this in the name of ISIS I wouldn't believe you. Two word: Fox News. Another thing in this is that these people are literally traitors, which Fox News are happy to support when it's guys like Cliven Bundy. Not all conservatives or Republicans are bad, hell I'm friends with them even if I don't agree with their beliefs.
So, this is worth reminding people of - back at the start of Obama's term, DHS produced a set of two reports on domestic terrorism - one on ostensibly left wing groups, one on ostensibly right wing ones.
Only the latter was publicly decried and attacked.
How well are their homesteads defended from seizure? This militia came from all parts of the US. The people who occupied the hut are willing to die for their cause. What about the people who stayed behind in their many homes? They're complicit, aren't they? What can we do about them?
I'm going to go with as at least as well defended as the office building they had no influence on.
How are you even going to seize the property? If you can't spare people to go surround and eventually retake a government building you sure as hell don't have the people needed to go seize and maintain government control of several more. Your suggestion is nonsensical, completely unworkable logistically, and dismissive of people who actually live in the area.
Edit: Never mind the fact that you're still opting to selectively enforce the law!
Well if you can't spare people to surround and retake the building, then you can't take that option anyway. Unless you're saying that I'm assuming that, which I'm not. I'm saying that this occupation is a symptom of a larger problem and rolling in there will not deter them. Especially if they can afford to defend all their other properties with equal rigor, which I doubt.
I understand that the sovereignty of the federal government over all its properties is at stake here, but the immediate impact is purely local, and I dismiss it because I'm trying to capture public opinion and reaction. A firefight will be agreed to be poorly handled and, as we already know, will not prevent another seizure. How can we best limit their assets for the long term?
That larger problem is people can seize government property and nothing happens. We do not live in local bubbles. The seizure of federal land affects all of us. Police going to investigate and potentially seizing it legally is fine. Ignoring them to keep a building "in the middle of nowhere" does not help.
I just want them to be smart about it. Locally, station rangers near water and potential hunting areas. Engage the local police force and neighbors to be additional eyes on any known supply routes and less defended properties. Start getting buyers for reclaimed assets. Wage a bloodless economic war they won't understand that benefits everybody but them. Make it so that when they look at the news on their smartphones, the front page is about the threat to the homes left behind rather than publicity about their exploits.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Posts
pleasepaypreacher.net
http://gawker.com/sons-of-noted-racist-vigilante-are-willing-to-kill-in-s-1750764305
pleasepaypreacher.net
Sue them for theft, and when they fail to respond to summons, take their property as payment. Raze it over and build a new federal building.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Cut cell, cut power, cut water, bring in a big ass wall to put around the facility so that they can't even see outside. Toss in a walkie talkie and tell them that the wall will be removed upon their unconditional surrender.
Its the precedence that's the problem. The fed did nothing about Bundy and now we have a new Bundy, this time they occupied a federal building, you can't keep letting these assholes do dangerous things and hope things work themselves out. Also this kind of shit inspires the "isolated incident" white male shooter we get every once in a while as well.
pleasepaypreacher.net
What are the odds that anyone involved in the previous incident on the Bundy land faces charges for that, too?
The problem here is that this is all backwoods stuff, nobody really cares about it.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Zero. They haven't done shit to Bundy, why would they bother now? This is one facet I'm annoyed with the Obama admin. And before someone equates this to the Fed ignoring federal marijuana laws in states that voted to legalize fuck you not even the same thing, no state voted to let Cliven Bundy do whatever the fuck he wants.
pleasepaypreacher.net
This is my state and our Federal government involved here. People live in that county and work in that building. Don't be a goose, of course this matters and people care. Do you really not get what these guys are trying to do? We can't just ignore them.
I can't comment on Arpaio, but Rampart didn't happen because the cops involved were all macho men who loved guns and feared change. Rampart happened because a bunch of cops were put together and told to fight gang crime using any means necessary and were basically corrupted by the power they were given and took everything too far. The general police culture of 'us vs them' was a pretty big factor and it didn't take a specific kind of person to get the ball rolling. Just a slight nudge that greed usually provides.
None of it had any real flavour of this militia stuff.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
But these guys aren't a suicidal cult.
Ruby Ride was a one-off fuck up. An entire generation of Federal Law Enforcement has studied that mess as a prime example of what not to do.
Those two events should not have paralyzed federal law enforcement for twenty years when dealing with militias and white supremacists.
The people who should handle this aren't some bumfuck cops who want to play soldier, and we know how to cut utilities and put a perimeter around a building.
Wait them out, and laugh at how it only took x days of them shitting in buckets to give up.
Then throw them in jail for 5-10.
Amd do the same thing to the next set of dumbasses and so on until this stupid spoiled ranchers get over themselves and stop acting like traitors because they didn't get the free grazing rights handout from the federal government. Ultimately, these guys are taking up guns because they aren't getting enough welfare. And grazing rights on federal land is already a hell of a gimme.
Your state, your county, your local concerns. It is a building out in the middle of the woods whose function is inessential to everyday life and not generalizable to the generalpopulation. Unlike Waco, no deaths happened to trigger this. Kill one guy, get one guy killed, and suddenly is interesting.
Federal property has been seized and they're all anxious to kill and die their way into history. Why satisfy them when there's a perfectly good system of litigation that can be used to screw them over if they don't play ball? They value property over their lives, that is what we continue to fail to get. Well we can seize property too.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
If you can't enforce the law saying they can't seize federal property how the hell are you planning to enforce the law allowing them to be litigated?
They can't be in two places at once is how
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I don't even
A militia is more than one person of course they fucking can.
Federal property being seized is everyone's concern. This isn't local. These people are committing sedition against the US Government. A lawsuit while they sit pretty (and actively work towards more sedition and treason) is unacceptable.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
In not sure the legality of just straight up seizing their assets (taking their homes and vehicles)
Complicit how? "Agreeing with idiots" isn't in itself a crime.
I'm going to go with as at least as well defended as the office building they had no influence on.
How are you even going to seize the property? If you can't spare people to go surround and eventually retake a government building you sure as hell don't have the people needed to go seize and maintain government control of several more. Your suggestion is nonsensical, completely unworkable logistically, and dismissive of people who actually live in the area.
Edit: Never mind the fact that you're still opting to selectively enforce the law!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
And George didnt have drones.
Armed resistance to the authority of the federal government calls into question that Governments authority and legitimizes this form of resistance.
We have laws. We have courts. We have an entire legislative branch to appeal to if you don't like the first two things.
You DO NOT get to pick up a gun and say "I'll do what I want". Full stop.
I don't think they are necessarily complicit, no. They may very well be in most cases but a spouse back home might not have approved of or be aiding them in any way.
Unless you're a "bomb the home of the terrorists families" type.
Civil Asset Forfeiture is actually very lightly regulated. It's also pretty fucked up, but still current law.
Well if you can't spare people to surround and retake the building, then you can't take that option anyway. Unless you're saying that I'm assuming that, which I'm not. I'm saying that this occupation is a symptom of a larger problem and rolling in there will not deter them. Especially if they can afford to defend all their other properties with equal rigor, which I doubt.
I understand that the sovereignty of the federal government over all its properties is at stake here, but the immediate impact is purely local, and I dismiss it because I'm trying to capture public opinion and reaction. A firefight will be agreed to be poorly handled and, as we already know, will not prevent another seizure. How can we best limit their assets for the long term?
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Yes, do that, do that a lot. Then if people get outraged at this overreach it'll be two birds with one stone.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Most likely their property and major assets are owned by their bank so couldn't be touched directly.
In case of a home, land, or vehicle that is currently still being paid for (via loan, mortgage, etc...) any such collection of assets must be initiated by the bank that provided the funding for the initial purchase. Until the lender/bank files a motion for repossession/foreclosure, the government or a licensed contractor can't legally collect.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Holiday weekend, pretty much every level of government is running on a skeleton crew right now. Response times will be slow and plodding.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
It is New Years weekend. Most people in charge are sleeping off the weekend and would rather deal with it on Monday.
The local sheriff:
And schools are closed all week out of fear of armed nutjobs or something.
That larger problem is people can seize government property and nothing happens. We do not live in local bubbles. The seizure of federal land affects all of us. Police going to investigate and potentially seizing it legally is fine. Ignoring them to keep a building "in the middle of nowhere" does not help.
So, this is worth reminding people of - back at the start of Obama's term, DHS produced a set of two reports on domestic terrorism - one on ostensibly left wing groups, one on ostensibly right wing ones.
Only the latter was publicly decried and attacked.
I just want them to be smart about it. Locally, station rangers near water and potential hunting areas. Engage the local police force and neighbors to be additional eyes on any known supply routes and less defended properties. Start getting buyers for reclaimed assets. Wage a bloodless economic war they won't understand that benefits everybody but them. Make it so that when they look at the news on their smartphones, the front page is about the threat to the homes left behind rather than publicity about their exploits.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.