Twitter is mostly fine, its people that insist on taking a tweet and dumping it into a conversation devoid of any context and hoping everyone else will suss out why it relates / matters.
There is even a mod that does this.
The problem is Twitter doesn't provide that context on it's own the way, say, an actual article would.
At the same time, linking to a tweet doesnt disable the rest of the posting functions like typing why the tweet matters.
If someone cold dropped external links, youtube videos, or meme gifs all the time it wouldnt be tolerated, but for some reason tweets get a pass.
This doesn't change anything about the fact that twitter condenses media into contextless 144 character pieces. It's a world of bad headlines. It's just a terrible medium.
No americans not showing up to vote in the states that matter got him elected. Had nothing to do with Trump Voter feelings
And all the counties where Trump got more raw votes than Romney are, what, irrelevant?
They would have been if again americans in states that mattered showed up to vote/weren't prevented.
Either way this is political media thread not general election, so how long until there isn't a white house press briefing march?
I really don't believe he'll stop WH pressers. He's saying it so he'll get as many outlets as possible to capitulate and get them to treat him like a beloved god-emperor.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
I've talked/argued with way too many Trump voters in the last couple months, and always try to ground the conversation in actual, literal Trump statements to underscore the fact he's a white supremacist, clearly ignorant, incoherent, et cetera. Almost universally, their rebuttal is 'he didn't mean it like that' or, even more forehead-slapping, just 'he didn't mean it.' That standard is not applied to the other side, of course.
Fucking maddening. Also probably a window into why the avalanche of negative campaigning against Trump didn't stop him.
Question. Have you been around them when they thought they were alone?
Twitter is mostly fine, its people that insist on taking a tweet and dumping it into a conversation devoid of any context and hoping everyone else will suss out why it relates / matters.
There is even a mod that does this.
The problem is Twitter doesn't provide that context on it's own the way, say, an actual article would.
At the same time, linking to a tweet doesnt disable the rest of the posting functions like typing why the tweet matters.
If someone cold dropped external links, youtube videos, or meme gifs all the time it wouldnt be tolerated, but for some reason tweets get a pass.
Contextless tweets are against the rules, specifically in election / politics threads I believe.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed. You can not educate away irrational hate. You can not love away purposely misguided anger. You can't explain consequences to someone who already knows everything you say is a lie (especially if it's the truth). You can not prove a point to someone who doesn't care. Most importantly, you can not show the suffering that is being caused and expect it to have an effect, because that is what they want to happen!
I don't know where we as a country go from here and it scares the hell out of me.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed.
Do you believe yourself immune to the quirks of human psychology? If there's one thing I've learned from this election season, it's that if you have internalized a belief - no matter how significant or insignificant - as important to your sense of self, you will almost never be bent from it. In fact, any sense that such a belief is being undermined or criticized will be met with deep hostility. In the case where such beliefs are capable of being addressed, it's because they were approached in a way that is completely different from the kind of discussion we're having here.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed.
Do you believe yourself immune to the quirks of human psychology? If there's one thing I've learned from this election season, it's that if you have internalized a belief - no matter how significant or insignificant - as important to your sense of self, you will almost never be bent from it. In fact, any sense that such a belief is being undermined or criticized will be met with deep hostility. In the case where such beliefs are capable of being addressed, it's because they were approached in a way that is completely different from the kind of discussion we're having here.
Easier said than done, if it can be done at all. Dems learnt the hard way that they didn't get loyal followers from the Rust Belt with Obama's strategy, he simply got us a temporary alliance and any overt tactic that didn't toe the line made them revert to the Republican default.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed.
Do you believe yourself immune to the quirks of human psychology? If there's one thing I've learned from this election season, it's that if you have internalized a belief - no matter how significant or insignificant - as important to your sense of self, you will almost never be bent from it. In fact, any sense that such a belief is being undermined or criticized will be met with deep hostility. In the case where such beliefs are capable of being addressed, it's because they were approached in a way that is completely different from the kind of discussion we're having here.
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here (though from the tenor of your previous posts, I'm guessing you're saying something along the line of that we're the real racists, for calling them racists?).
But regardless, it would be significantly easier (and cheaper) to try to increase turnout from the people who went 3rd party or didn't vote at all, than to try to flip people from "the other side".
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed.
Do you believe yourself immune to the quirks of human psychology? If there's one thing I've learned from this election season, it's that if you have internalized a belief - no matter how significant or insignificant - as important to your sense of self, you will almost never be bent from it. In fact, any sense that such a belief is being undermined or criticized will be met with deep hostility. In the case where such beliefs are capable of being addressed, it's because they were approached in a way that is completely different from the kind of discussion we're having here.
What those feelings are matter.
And not everyone is equally open to changing their minds.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
No one asked you to care about the feelings of Trump voters; nice strawman. The point was that you called the average Trump voter misinformed because they were Trump voters (along with suggesting that Trump lies 80% of the time; what a nice, convenient round number) as if you know the minds of (lets be generous with our bell curve here) 30 million individuals across 50 states. Nothing in your post addresses, any of that.
No one asked you to care about the feelings of Trump voters; nice strawman. The point was that you called the average Trump voter misinformed because they were Trump voters (along with suggesting that Trump lies 80% of the time; what a nice, convenient round number) as if you know the minds of (lets be generous with our bell curve here) 30 million individuals across 50 states. Nothing in your post addresses, any of that.
Have you considered that millions of people in America are poorly educated? It's not like the GOP hasn't done a spectacular job fucking with the educational system for decades.
edit: Anti-intellectualism is a thing that's been pushed and is popular in Republican circles. Not to mention Fox News is one of the most popular news networks in the country.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
No one asked you to care about the feelings of Trump voters; nice strawman. The point was that you called the average Trump voter misinformed because they were Trump voters (along with suggesting that Trump lies 80% of the time; what a nice, convenient round number) as if you know the minds of (lets be generous with our bell curve here) 30 million individuals across 50 states. Nothing in your post addresses, any of that.
Rachel Maddow dissected a PPP poll exclusively pre-released to MSNBC showing the Trump voter as severely detached from reality.
Rachel continued.
40% of Trump voters believe that Donald Trump won the popular vote.
60% of Trump voters believe that millions voted illegally for Clinton.
73% of Trump voters believe that George Soros paid Trump protesters.
29% of Trump voters believe California vote should not be included in the popular vote.
I think it shows that even after the election, what Trump voters believe about the world is distinctively different from what the rest of the country believe. And from what is true. And this is an alternate reality that they are in, — it is weird enough and specific enough that you can’t say it just springs from broader a misunderstandings or from a broader ignorance on issues that afflicts the country. And this is a specific alternate reality that was created by the Trump movement for a political purpose. And it worked for that political purpose. And now as the Trump administration takes shape, they have to know that they are in power thanks to their voter base that has these false beliefs about the country. False beliefs about the country, false beliefs about the economy, false beliefs about the outgoing president, false beliefs about what California is. In terms of what happens next in our country, it seems important to know this incoming president basically created this fantasy life for his supporters.
No americans not showing up to vote in the states that matter got him elected. Had nothing to do with Trump Voter feelings
I know of at least a few Berners in the Rust Belt that voted Trump. It is most certainly both. I don't know why all of a sudden we all gotta be so absolutist about multifaceted problems.
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore." He continued "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
This has come home to roost for America.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed.
Do you believe yourself immune to the quirks of human psychology? If there's one thing I've learned from this election season, it's that if you have internalized a belief - no matter how significant or insignificant - as important to your sense of self, you will almost never be bent from it. In fact, any sense that such a belief is being undermined or criticized will be met with deep hostility. In the case where such beliefs are capable of being addressed, it's because they were approached in a way that is completely different from the kind of discussion we're having here.
Easier said than done, if it can be done at all. Dems learnt the hard way that they didn't get loyal followers from the Rust Belt with Obama's strategy, he simply got us a temporary alliance and any overt tactic that didn't toe the line made them revert to the Republican default.
This isn't really correct though is it? I thought the states that failed us out there had been voting Blue as long as California. This is a new dynamic.
American conservatism is essentially a network of cults, including secular ones. Even to an atheist conservative caught up in this network, liberal ideas and basic facts are like the whispers of demons.
The media is happy to spread the occult fiction just as long as it gets them what they want.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed.
Do you believe yourself immune to the quirks of human psychology? If there's one thing I've learned from this election season, it's that if you have internalized a belief - no matter how significant or insignificant - as important to your sense of self, you will almost never be bent from it. In fact, any sense that such a belief is being undermined or criticized will be met with deep hostility. In the case where such beliefs are capable of being addressed, it's because they were approached in a way that is completely different from the kind of discussion we're having here.
Easier said than done, if it can be done at all. Dems learnt the hard way that they didn't get loyal followers from the Rust Belt with Obama's strategy, he simply got us a temporary alliance and any overt tactic that didn't toe the line made them revert to the Republican default.
This isn't really correct though is it? I thought the states that failed us out there had been voting Blue as long as California. This is a new dynamic.
I thought the Rust Belt only turned blue during Obama's time, was I mistaken?
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed.
Do you believe yourself immune to the quirks of human psychology? If there's one thing I've learned from this election season, it's that if you have internalized a belief - no matter how significant or insignificant - as important to your sense of self, you will almost never be bent from it. In fact, any sense that such a belief is being undermined or criticized will be met with deep hostility. In the case where such beliefs are capable of being addressed, it's because they were approached in a way that is completely different from the kind of discussion we're having here.
Easier said than done, if it can be done at all. Dems learnt the hard way that they didn't get loyal followers from the Rust Belt with Obama's strategy, he simply got us a temporary alliance and any overt tactic that didn't toe the line made them revert to the Republican default.
This isn't really correct though is it? I thought the states that failed us out there had been voting Blue as long as California. This is a new dynamic.
I thought the Rust Belt only turned blue during Obama's time, was I mistaken?
Back in the day, it was a union (like labour, not civil war) stronghold. Of course, Unions have lost a power in the decades since
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed.
Do you believe yourself immune to the quirks of human psychology? If there's one thing I've learned from this election season, it's that if you have internalized a belief - no matter how significant or insignificant - as important to your sense of self, you will almost never be bent from it. In fact, any sense that such a belief is being undermined or criticized will be met with deep hostility. In the case where such beliefs are capable of being addressed, it's because they were approached in a way that is completely different from the kind of discussion we're having here.
Easier said than done, if it can be done at all. Dems learnt the hard way that they didn't get loyal followers from the Rust Belt with Obama's strategy, he simply got us a temporary alliance and any overt tactic that didn't toe the line made them revert to the Republican default.
This isn't really correct though is it? I thought the states that failed us out there had been voting Blue as long as California. This is a new dynamic.
I thought the Rust Belt only turned blue during Obama's time, was I mistaken?
Back in the day, it was a union (like labour, not civil war) stronghold. Of course, Unions have lost a power in the decades since
Though also the Union. The Republicans (back when they were anti-slavery and what not) were founded in Michigan and Wisconsin.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
And actually, in Wisconsin's case they'd been going Democrat longer than California. Michigan, Pennsylvania, and California all helped elect Bush. It was a big fucking upset.
No one asked you to care about the feelings of Trump voters; nice strawman. The point was that you called the average Trump voter misinformed because they were Trump voters (along with suggesting that Trump lies 80% of the time; what a nice, convenient round number) as if you know the minds of (lets be generous with our bell curve here) 30 million individuals across 50 states. Nothing in your post addresses, any of that.
Have you considered that millions of people in America are poorly educated? It's not like the GOP hasn't done a spectacular job fucking with the educational system for decades.
edit: Anti-intellectualism is a thing that's been pushed and is popular in Republican circles. Not to mention Fox News is one of the most popular news networks in the country.
Having been to a couple of religiously oriented events (and I say oriented as that they used words from their religion but not the spirit nor meaning those words embody) and I can safely say that we're well past anti-intellectualism in many corners of this country. We're even pushing the bounds of what I like to call pro-ignorance. I think we're full onto an outbreak of zealotry. Zealotry that's fueled by reactionary, anti-progressive sentiments of people who've never been given the ability to deal with the drastic acceleration of societal change brought on by technological advancement. Zealotry that's been harnessed by opportunistic, megalomaniacal, lunatics with severe personality disorders who are so hungry for power and wealth that they will stop at nothing to achieve ends that will likely be forgotten in a couple of generations.
All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
No one asked you to care about the feelings of Trump voters; nice strawman. The point was that you called the average Trump voter misinformed because they were Trump voters (along with suggesting that Trump lies 80% of the time; what a nice, convenient round number) as if you know the minds of (lets be generous with our bell curve here) 30 million individuals across 50 states. Nothing in your post addresses, any of that.
Are they Trump voters because they're misinformed or are they misinformed because they're Trump voters
there's two things that are not under debate is that Trump voters are misinformed and that Trump told objective falsehoods constantly during his camapign
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
Counterpoint: people ignoring Trump voters' feelings got him elected.
What those feelings were matters.
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed.
Do you believe yourself immune to the quirks of human psychology? If there's one thing I've learned from this election season, it's that if you have internalized a belief - no matter how significant or insignificant - as important to your sense of self, you will almost never be bent from it. In fact, any sense that such a belief is being undermined or criticized will be met with deep hostility. In the case where such beliefs are capable of being addressed, it's because they were approached in a way that is completely different from the kind of discussion we're having here.
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here (though from the tenor of your previous posts, I'm guessing you're saying something along the line of that we're the real racists, for calling them racists?).
But regardless, it would be significantly easier (and cheaper) to try to increase turnout from the people who went 3rd party or didn't vote at all, than to try to flip people from "the other side".
I agreed with him, because I think he's simply saying that liberals are just a susceptible to confirmation bias as conservatives. Which I also find to be true.
Of course, both sides are convinced of their own righteousness, and the repugnant nature of the 'other'. A stance that is, intriguingly, deepened by BOTH winning and losing.
I think you're right, in that neither sides' base is going to 'flip'; but identifying who can/will is the key to victory. Clinton's campaign thought they had the union rust-belt Obama voters in the bag, right up until election night - and they knew as soon as the data starting coming in that they had fucked up and were in deep trouble (I have that from the mouth of a DNC pollster). They spent their money and efforts in the big cities and already pro-Clinton areas, trying to boost turnout. Turns out, that strategy was wrong.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
No one asked you to care about the feelings of Trump voters; nice strawman. The point was that you called the average Trump voter misinformed because they were Trump voters (along with suggesting that Trump lies 80% of the time; what a nice, convenient round number) as if you know the minds of (lets be generous with our bell curve here) 30 million individuals across 50 states. Nothing in your post addresses, any of that.
Rachel Maddow dissected a PPP poll exclusively pre-released to MSNBC showing the Trump voter as severely detached from reality.
Rachel continued.
40% of Trump voters believe that Donald Trump won the popular vote.
60% of Trump voters believe that millions voted illegally for Clinton.
73% of Trump voters believe that George Soros paid Trump protesters.
29% of Trump voters believe California vote should not be included in the popular vote.
I think it shows that even after the election, what Trump voters believe about the world is distinctively different from what the rest of the country believe. And from what is true. And this is an alternate reality that they are in, — it is weird enough and specific enough that you can’t say it just springs from broader a misunderstandings or from a broader ignorance on issues that afflicts the country. And this is a specific alternate reality that was created by the Trump movement for a political purpose. And it worked for that political purpose. And now as the Trump administration takes shape, they have to know that they are in power thanks to their voter base that has these false beliefs about the country. False beliefs about the country, false beliefs about the economy, false beliefs about the outgoing president, false beliefs about what California is. In terms of what happens next in our country, it seems important to know this incoming president basically created this fantasy life for his supporters.
Here's the full poll (that they don't bother to release the methodology for). None of the responses to this quiz are all 0's for the wrong answer across demographic levels (including ideology), and there's a strong case to be made that the questions asked have the benefit of being not neutral: the correct answer happens to align well with where you fall on the political spectrum and begs the question (as is being assumed out of hand here) whether people actually know the correct answer or are just presuming what it is based on their current political mood.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
No one asked you to care about the feelings of Trump voters; nice strawman. The point was that you called the average Trump voter misinformed because they were Trump voters (along with suggesting that Trump lies 80% of the time; what a nice, convenient round number) as if you know the minds of (lets be generous with our bell curve here) 30 million individuals across 50 states. Nothing in your post addresses, any of that.
Are they Trump voters because they're misinformed or are they misinformed because they're Trump voters
there's two things that are not under debate is that Trump voters are misinformed and that Trump told objective falsehoods constantly during his camapign
I have no idea, YOU made the comment. And you've now gone from the average to all. Quite a jump.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
No one asked you to care about the feelings of Trump voters; nice strawman. The point was that you called the average Trump voter misinformed because they were Trump voters (along with suggesting that Trump lies 80% of the time; what a nice, convenient round number) as if you know the minds of (lets be generous with our bell curve here) 30 million individuals across 50 states. Nothing in your post addresses, any of that.
Rachel Maddow dissected a PPP poll exclusively pre-released to MSNBC showing the Trump voter as severely detached from reality.
Rachel continued.
40% of Trump voters believe that Donald Trump won the popular vote.
60% of Trump voters believe that millions voted illegally for Clinton.
73% of Trump voters believe that George Soros paid Trump protesters.
29% of Trump voters believe California vote should not be included in the popular vote.
I think it shows that even after the election, what Trump voters believe about the world is distinctively different from what the rest of the country believe. And from what is true. And this is an alternate reality that they are in, — it is weird enough and specific enough that you can’t say it just springs from broader a misunderstandings or from a broader ignorance on issues that afflicts the country. And this is a specific alternate reality that was created by the Trump movement for a political purpose. And it worked for that political purpose. And now as the Trump administration takes shape, they have to know that they are in power thanks to their voter base that has these false beliefs about the country. False beliefs about the country, false beliefs about the economy, false beliefs about the outgoing president, false beliefs about what California is. In terms of what happens next in our country, it seems important to know this incoming president basically created this fantasy life for his supporters.
Here's the full poll (that they don't bother to release the methodology for). None of the responses to this quiz are all 0's for the wrong answer across demographic levels (including ideology), and there's a strong case to be made that the questions asked have the benefit of being not neutral: the correct answer happens to align well with where you fall on the political spectrum and begs the question (as is being assumed out of hand here) whether people actually know the correct answer or are just presuming what it is based on their current political mood.
The only meaningful difference between whether these people are rubes or morons. Do they believe stupid wrong things because they are idiots or do they believe them because they were told to and they'll believe blatant falsehoods as long as the group tells them too.
Neither of which changes the fact that the core assertion you disagreed with that Trump voters are misinformed/idiots is entirely correct.
Maybe my mistake was assuming the average Trump voter listened to the shit he said
I'm sure they did; but you're assuming the process was "Listened To Trump" to "Accepted The Trump." A process I assume you don't ascribe to non-Trump voters.
I'm not even going to touch the second part of your comment (for no other reason it has nothing to do with the conversation at hand).
I honestly feel the fact that ED! feels the need to jump to the defense of Trump voters to be deeply problematic. I mean, is anyone even suggesting Trump voters be treated remotely close to the way that their own candidate constantly suggested our country should treat minorities? How about we wait until serious rhetoric gets to that point before worrying about the whether we hurt the feelings of people who are objectively bigoted and/or misinformed to the point where their actions are destructive.
Perhaps ED!'s energy would be better spent being concerned about all the LGBT youth on suicide watch as a direct result of the actions of Trump voters.
Furthermore, wouldn't believing that Trump was lying to them about all those things they don't really believe he would do, qualify as being ignorant? Their belief that he was a lying when there is no rational reason for that belief is inherently them being misinformed.
Lastly, I believe that the onus is on ED! to show that Trump voters are informed and educated, and not the other way around. I mean, he wasn't pulling in a lot of the college educated crowd, FFS.
Not to back seat mod but this is not a general election thread, we have one of those, take this tangent there before you get this thread locked. Please
I honestly feel the fact that ED! feels the need to jump to the defense of Trump voters to be deeply problematic. I mean, is anyone even suggesting Trump voters be treated remotely close to the way that their own candidate constantly suggested our country should treat minorities? How about we wait until serious rhetoric gets to that point before worrying about the whether we hurt the feelings of people who are objectively bigoted and/or misinformed to the point where their actions are destructive.
I responded to a single quote from a poster. It has NOTHING to do with anyone's hurt feelings and everything to do with them making a sweeping generalization about Republican voters and how they engage with facts (from Trump, the media, etc.) that would have been shot dead in the water if it were the other way around.
Perhaps ED!'s energy would be better spent being concerned about all the LGBT youth on suicide watch as a direct result of the actions of Trump voters.
You don't know me or the work I do or not do. Don't presume to.
Lastly, I believe that the onus is on ED! to show that Trump voters are informed and educated, and not the other way around. I mean, he wasn't pulling in a lot of the college educated crowd, FFS.
No it's not. If you make a statement and I challenge you to back up that statement, your response shouldn't be "It's your job to prove the reverse is true." That's absurd.
Trump lied way way more the Hilary. Often about really easily disprovable things. And to date I don't think he's every admitted actually saying something false. By the record he still looking for the thousands of Muslims in Jersey cheering 9/11.
I'm sorry I'm trying to be nice. But Trump is a liar and if you believe things he says you believe a lot of lies.
and in case you haven't noticed I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT TRUMP VOTERS FEELINGS. People deciding their feelings are ore important than actual reality is what got him elected.
No one asked you to care about the feelings of Trump voters; nice strawman. The point was that you called the average Trump voter misinformed because they were Trump voters (along with suggesting that Trump lies 80% of the time; what a nice, convenient round number) as if you know the minds of (lets be generous with our bell curve here) 30 million individuals across 50 states. Nothing in your post addresses, any of that.
Rachel Maddow dissected a PPP poll exclusively pre-released to MSNBC showing the Trump voter as severely detached from reality.
Rachel continued.
40% of Trump voters believe that Donald Trump won the popular vote.
60% of Trump voters believe that millions voted illegally for Clinton.
73% of Trump voters believe that George Soros paid Trump protesters.
29% of Trump voters believe California vote should not be included in the popular vote.
I think it shows that even after the election, what Trump voters believe about the world is distinctively different from what the rest of the country believe. And from what is true. And this is an alternate reality that they are in, — it is weird enough and specific enough that you can’t say it just springs from broader a misunderstandings or from a broader ignorance on issues that afflicts the country. And this is a specific alternate reality that was created by the Trump movement for a political purpose. And it worked for that political purpose. And now as the Trump administration takes shape, they have to know that they are in power thanks to their voter base that has these false beliefs about the country. False beliefs about the country, false beliefs about the economy, false beliefs about the outgoing president, false beliefs about what California is. In terms of what happens next in our country, it seems important to know this incoming president basically created this fantasy life for his supporters.
Here's the full poll (that they don't bother to release the methodology for). None of the responses to this quiz are all 0's for the wrong answer across demographic levels (including ideology), and there's a strong case to be made that the questions asked have the benefit of being not neutral: the correct answer happens to align well with where you fall on the political spectrum and begs the question (as is being assumed out of hand here) whether people actually know the correct answer or are just presuming what it is based on their current political mood.
Neither of which changes the fact that the core assertion you disagreed with that Trump voters are misinformed/idiots is entirely correct.
It is by any measure not correct. Any survey designer worth his salt would tear that PPP survey to shreds; but assume for a minute that it's not faulty: are you really judging whether someone is informed or not by at best three policy questions? Really? And we're suggesting that being informed is a binary qualifier and not a scale? Sure.
Posts
And all the counties where Trump got more raw votes than Romney are, what, irrelevant?
They would have been if again americans in states that mattered showed up to vote/weren't prevented.
Either way this is political media thread not general election, so how long until there isn't a white house press briefing march?
pleasepaypreacher.net
This doesn't change anything about the fact that twitter condenses media into contextless 144 character pieces. It's a world of bad headlines. It's just a terrible medium.
Don't worry, they have Santorum to tell them what the "real" news is now
I really don't believe he'll stop WH pressers. He's saying it so he'll get as many outlets as possible to capitulate and get them to treat him like a beloved god-emperor.
What those feelings were matters.
Question. Have you been around them when they thought they were alone?
Contextless tweets are against the rules, specifically in election / politics threads I believe.
Steam: adamjnet
The problem with trump voters 'feelings' is that they can't be changed. You can not educate away irrational hate. You can not love away purposely misguided anger. You can't explain consequences to someone who already knows everything you say is a lie (especially if it's the truth). You can not prove a point to someone who doesn't care. Most importantly, you can not show the suffering that is being caused and expect it to have an effect, because that is what they want to happen!
I don't know where we as a country go from here and it scares the hell out of me.
These people don't believe in democracy.
Do you believe yourself immune to the quirks of human psychology? If there's one thing I've learned from this election season, it's that if you have internalized a belief - no matter how significant or insignificant - as important to your sense of self, you will almost never be bent from it. In fact, any sense that such a belief is being undermined or criticized will be met with deep hostility. In the case where such beliefs are capable of being addressed, it's because they were approached in a way that is completely different from the kind of discussion we're having here.
Easier said than done, if it can be done at all. Dems learnt the hard way that they didn't get loyal followers from the Rust Belt with Obama's strategy, he simply got us a temporary alliance and any overt tactic that didn't toe the line made them revert to the Republican default.
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here (though from the tenor of your previous posts, I'm guessing you're saying something along the line of that we're the real racists, for calling them racists?).
But regardless, it would be significantly easier (and cheaper) to try to increase turnout from the people who went 3rd party or didn't vote at all, than to try to flip people from "the other side".
What those feelings are matter.
And not everyone is equally open to changing their minds.
Yup what?
No one asked you to care about the feelings of Trump voters; nice strawman. The point was that you called the average Trump voter misinformed because they were Trump voters (along with suggesting that Trump lies 80% of the time; what a nice, convenient round number) as if you know the minds of (lets be generous with our bell curve here) 30 million individuals across 50 states. Nothing in your post addresses, any of that.
Have you considered that millions of people in America are poorly educated? It's not like the GOP hasn't done a spectacular job fucking with the educational system for decades.
edit: Anti-intellectualism is a thing that's been pushed and is popular in Republican circles. Not to mention Fox News is one of the most popular news networks in the country.
It's basically a combination civics/foreign policy/history lesson
The average Trump voter is misinformed.
I know of at least a few Berners in the Rust Belt that voted Trump. It is most certainly both. I don't know why all of a sudden we all gotta be so absolutist about multifaceted problems.
If only it were so easy
This has come home to roost for America.
This isn't really correct though is it? I thought the states that failed us out there had been voting Blue as long as California. This is a new dynamic.
The media is happy to spread the occult fiction just as long as it gets them what they want.
I thought the Rust Belt only turned blue during Obama's time, was I mistaken?
Back in the day, it was a union (like labour, not civil war) stronghold. Of course, Unions have lost a power in the decades since
Though also the Union. The Republicans (back when they were anti-slavery and what not) were founded in Michigan and Wisconsin.
Having been to a couple of religiously oriented events (and I say oriented as that they used words from their religion but not the spirit nor meaning those words embody) and I can safely say that we're well past anti-intellectualism in many corners of this country. We're even pushing the bounds of what I like to call pro-ignorance. I think we're full onto an outbreak of zealotry. Zealotry that's fueled by reactionary, anti-progressive sentiments of people who've never been given the ability to deal with the drastic acceleration of societal change brought on by technological advancement. Zealotry that's been harnessed by opportunistic, megalomaniacal, lunatics with severe personality disorders who are so hungry for power and wealth that they will stop at nothing to achieve ends that will likely be forgotten in a couple of generations.
Are they Trump voters because they're misinformed or are they misinformed because they're Trump voters
there's two things that are not under debate is that Trump voters are misinformed and that Trump told objective falsehoods constantly during his camapign
Of course, both sides are convinced of their own righteousness, and the repugnant nature of the 'other'. A stance that is, intriguingly, deepened by BOTH winning and losing.
I think you're right, in that neither sides' base is going to 'flip'; but identifying who can/will is the key to victory. Clinton's campaign thought they had the union rust-belt Obama voters in the bag, right up until election night - and they knew as soon as the data starting coming in that they had fucked up and were in deep trouble (I have that from the mouth of a DNC pollster). They spent their money and efforts in the big cities and already pro-Clinton areas, trying to boost turnout. Turns out, that strategy was wrong.
Here's the full poll (that they don't bother to release the methodology for). None of the responses to this quiz are all 0's for the wrong answer across demographic levels (including ideology), and there's a strong case to be made that the questions asked have the benefit of being not neutral: the correct answer happens to align well with where you fall on the political spectrum and begs the question (as is being assumed out of hand here) whether people actually know the correct answer or are just presuming what it is based on their current political mood.
I have no idea, YOU made the comment. And you've now gone from the average to all. Quite a jump.
If you voted Trump you're a racist, a rube or a plain old asshole to me.
The only meaningful difference between whether these people are rubes or morons. Do they believe stupid wrong things because they are idiots or do they believe them because they were told to and they'll believe blatant falsehoods as long as the group tells them too.
Neither of which changes the fact that the core assertion you disagreed with that Trump voters are misinformed/idiots is entirely correct.
I'm sure they did; but you're assuming the process was "Listened To Trump" to "Accepted The Trump." A process I assume you don't ascribe to non-Trump voters.
I'm not even going to touch the second part of your comment (for no other reason it has nothing to do with the conversation at hand).
Perhaps ED!'s energy would be better spent being concerned about all the LGBT youth on suicide watch as a direct result of the actions of Trump voters.
Furthermore, wouldn't believing that Trump was lying to them about all those things they don't really believe he would do, qualify as being ignorant? Their belief that he was a lying when there is no rational reason for that belief is inherently them being misinformed.
Lastly, I believe that the onus is on ED! to show that Trump voters are informed and educated, and not the other way around. I mean, he wasn't pulling in a lot of the college educated crowd, FFS.
I responded to a single quote from a poster. It has NOTHING to do with anyone's hurt feelings and everything to do with them making a sweeping generalization about Republican voters and how they engage with facts (from Trump, the media, etc.) that would have been shot dead in the water if it were the other way around.
You don't know me or the work I do or not do. Don't presume to.
No it's not. If you make a statement and I challenge you to back up that statement, your response shouldn't be "It's your job to prove the reverse is true." That's absurd.
It is by any measure not correct. Any survey designer worth his salt would tear that PPP survey to shreds; but assume for a minute that it's not faulty: are you really judging whether someone is informed or not by at best three policy questions? Really? And we're suggesting that being informed is a binary qualifier and not a scale? Sure.