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so what y'all are saying is we need to print better aggro cards to fight patron, yes, yesss....
With the printing of Reno, I think Blizzard is putting the breaks on Aggro. Aggro was so dominant on ladder for so long, I think they want to let different strategies have a chance to shine. I expect more powerful control cards with some anti-paladin tech in the next expansion.
and yet they printed tunnel trogg and dark peddler at the same time
You're right - the better statement is that they will try to print cards that are good in different archetypes at the same time. Even then, not all cards are going to be equivalent for their respective archetypes. I feel that control and mid-range decks made out better in that trade.
Though with Tunnel Trog, Shaman NEEDED some kind of help to get a viable deck going and aggro variant with burst is the easiest deck to design for.
Aggro Shaman is a really hard deck to play. I tried Reynad's deck and I lost a lot of games with it. I was consistently unable to make the right choices between face and board.
I haven't played aggro shaman specifically, but for aggro in general, you only care about the board if it's keeping you from going face, if it's especially dangerous to your minions, or if you can get a really good trade (eg a 1/1 into a 3/1). When you cannot keep any minion on the board, only the taunts matter, and only if you're using chargers.
Don't trade with your chargers unless you absolutely must. Also look ahead a turn or two and see if you can set up on your current turn for a finisher on the next.
The most important thing is you want to deal as much damage as possible, and sometimes that means you go face with your spells even though you can't finish the game yet in order to have that mana available for more stuff in the future.
+2
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
trogg could also be a good midrange card what with 3 health. idk if they out and out wanted to make a good aggro card or just a good early game card which will of course influence aggro
so what y'all are saying is we need to print better aggro cards to fight patron, yes, yesss....
With the printing of Reno, I think Blizzard is putting the breaks on Aggro. Aggro was so dominant on ladder for so long, I think they want to let different strategies have a chance to shine. I expect more powerful control cards with some anti-paladin tech in the next expansion.
and yet they printed tunnel trogg and dark peddler at the same time
Dark Peddler isn't an aggro card, it's a combo card! How else are you going to get the third/fourth POs to make your arcane golem + faceless OTK a control warrior?
trogg could also be a good midrange card what with 3 health. idk if they out and out wanted to make a good aggro card or just a good early game card which will of course influence aggro
strictly speaking, a 1 mana card with conditional attack increase (mana wyrm, tunnel trogg) is an aggressive tool, because the midrange/control function of a 1drop is to contest the early drops of the opponent, in which case you don't want anything conditional - this is part of the reason gadgetzan jouster never replaced or supplemented zombie chow
trogg could also be a good midrange card what with 3 health. idk if they out and out wanted to make a good aggro card or just a good early game card which will of course influence aggro
strictly speaking, a 1 mana card with conditional attack increase (mana wyrm, tunnel trogg) is an aggressive tool, because the midrange/control function of a 1drop is to contest the early drops of the opponent, in which case you don't want anything conditional - this is part of the reason gadgetzan jouster never replaced or supplemented zombie chow
don't get me wrong, part of the advantage of 3 health minions like that is that they can take on a slightly more controlly role if you need them to, but that's more an aggressive deck having flexibility in how they can play, rather than a tool that a control deck is going to say "oo yeah let's get that in here"
Just as a heads-up, I've decided to focus mainly on a Silence Druid deck for this season. I'll switch things up to complete quests, but the primary focus is that deck. Here's the list I'll be running:
All Blizzard needs to do is print some better answers if they want to reign in decks like Secret Paladin that just "curve out and win." Even now, there is basically no way to immediately answer strong T2 minions like Shielded Minibot, Mad Scientist, and Haunted Creeper, nevermind something like Piloted Shredder or Mysterious Challenger.
All the Arena streamers have severely underestimated wobbling runts I think. Also, with hunter most people probably make sub optimal plays in the first few turns thinking that you will try and rush them down with a bunch of low cost minions. This deck is obviously not that type of deck.
I hit a bunch of 8,9, and 10 win runs this weekend, but I just could not get to 12. I feel like my overall win rate average is going up, but finding it so much harder to hit 12.
Also, got bitten by the "lost game connection" bug today, during my opponent's turn, when I had guaranteed-he-can't-do-anything-about-it lethal on my next turn.
Warlock opponent had already spent his mana except for a decision he was trying to make about summoning the 3-damage-to-self Imp - the only card in his hand, after using his hero power to draw it. I'd cleared his board the turn before, so he didn't have anything that could attack this turn, and the 3 damage would have no effect on whether or not I could drop lethal. On my board was a Silver Hand Recruit and a 1-charge Truesilver Champion. In my hand was an Everyfin is Awesome, with two Murloc Warleaders and Ol' Murk Eye ready to be regenerated.
All Blizzard needs to do is print some better answers if they want to reign in decks like Secret Paladin that just "curve out and win." Even now, there is basically no way to immediately answer strong T2 minions like Shielded Minibot, Mad Scientist, and Haunted Creeper, nevermind something like Piloted Shredder or Mysterious Challenger.
man when the game launched with killing a minion at five mana the ship of good answers saw the port they were sailing into and said "woah fuck this let's not come here" and sailed off to uh....i don't know, netrunner.
All Blizzard needs to do is print some better answers if they want to reign in decks like Secret Paladin that just "curve out and win." Even now, there is basically no way to immediately answer strong T2 minions like Shielded Minibot, Mad Scientist, and Haunted Creeper, nevermind something like Piloted Shredder or Mysterious Challenger.
man when the game launched with killing a minion at five mana the ship of good answers saw the port they were sailing into and said "woah fuck this let's not come here" and sailed off to uh....i don't know, netrunner.
All Blizzard needs to do is print some better answers if they want to reign in decks like Secret Paladin that just "curve out and win." Even now, there is basically no way to immediately answer strong T2 minions like Shielded Minibot, Mad Scientist, and Haunted Creeper, nevermind something like Piloted Shredder or Mysterious Challenger.
man when the game launched with killing a minion at five mana the ship of good answers saw the port they were sailing into and said "woah fuck this let's not come here" and sailed off to uh....i don't know, netrunner.
I mean, I found it refreshing that "kill anything no matter what" spells weren't just 1 and 2 like MtG. But that was before they made a bunch of powerful deathrattle guys, and at the very least there should be a removal spell by now that does 3 damage or so and silences the minion if its a deathrattle or whatever.
The state of the game is such that no one can even stop a T1 Leper Gnome from dealing at least 2 face damage except for Shaman with Earth Shock, so of course control decks are going to be few and far between. You can really "control" very little if your opponent curves out perfectly.
All the Arena streamers have severely underestimated wobbling runts I think. Also, with hunter most people probably make sub optimal plays in the first few turns thinking that you will try and rush them down with a bunch of low cost minions. This deck is obviously not that type of deck.
I hit a bunch of 8,9, and 10 win runs this weekend, but I just could not get to 12. I feel like my overall win rate average is going up, but finding it so much harder to hit 12.
The problem with Runts is that 2/6 at 6 mana is soooo slow. With Highmane, it's big enough that it's a threat. Most people just ignore the 2/6, as they should, and ironically, it's big butt is actually an impediment to my ability to suicide it to get the 2/2s.
It's one of those cards that waggles between great and shit.
Just as a heads-up, I've decided to focus mainly on a Silence Druid deck for this season. I'll switch things up to complete quests, but the primary focus is that deck. Here's the list I'll be running:
Aggro Shaman is a really hard deck to play. I tried Reynad's deck and I lost a lot of games with it. I was consistently unable to make the right choices between face and board.
Was it the really weird one with Malygos? Reynad tends to play strange decks. Try this one:
It's not always completely straightforward and there is a lot of decision making about when to trade vs. when to face, but it's not on the level of the really hard control decks like priest or freeze mage and you can figure it out just by playing it for awhile.
Thanks, really appreciate the advice. I had played the Reynad deck that was a mech shaman aggro deck. I tried yours with a few modifications because I don't have all the cards. I only have one argent horse rider, one lava burst and one flame juggler. I added two unbound elementals and al-akir and it still feels like a very good deck!
Just as a heads-up, I've decided to focus mainly on a Silence Druid deck for this season. I'll switch things up to complete quests, but the primary focus is that deck. Here's the list I'll be running:
Yeah I don't see Mukla making any sense in this deck.
I'd throw in at least one deathlord if possible.
Oddly enough, Mukla works really well. While the bananas suck, playing them makes you lose curve and usually isn't enough to take Mukla out. Of course, Mage is a huge problem with 1-cost spells.
Just as a heads-up, I've decided to focus mainly on a Silence Druid deck for this season. I'll switch things up to complete quests, but the primary focus is that deck. Here's the list I'll be running:
Yeah I don't see Mukla making any sense in this deck.
I'd throw in at least one deathlord if possible.
Oddly enough, Mukla works really well. While the bananas suck, playing them makes you lose curve and usually isn't enough to take Mukla out. Of course, Mage is a huge problem with 1-cost spells.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
+3
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Yep, that was the one theorized use of that card when it first came out (aside from Watcher shenanigans), but Freeze was never meta-defining enough after that point for it to come in.
+1
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Aggro Shaman is a really hard deck to play. I tried Reynad's deck and I lost a lot of games with it. I was consistently unable to make the right choices between face and board.
Was it the really weird one with Malygos? Reynad tends to play strange decks. Try this one:
It's not always completely straightforward and there is a lot of decision making about when to trade vs. when to face, but it's not on the level of the really hard control decks like priest or freeze mage and you can figure it out just by playing it for awhile.
Thanks, really appreciate the advice. I had played the Reynad deck that was a mech shaman aggro deck. I tried yours with a few modifications because I don't have all the cards. I only have one argent horse rider, one lava burst and one flame juggler. I added two unbound elementals and al-akir and it still feels like a very good deck!
one key to playing this deck is not overload on turn 4
you always want to guarantee to playing doomhammer on turn 5
edit: and save rockbiter for doomhammer
Yeah, you usually need to plan out turns 2, 3, and 4 from turn 1 so that you go into turn 5 with 5 mana. It's also often correct to keep Doomhammer in the mulligan because it's crucial to beating slow decks.
Just had a game as face hunter against a warlock where after a farseer, a healbot, and Reno (from 5 hp), I had him at 3. If I had drawn any of my remaining burn on the last turn, I would have won.
Not sure what to think of that.
Just as a heads-up, I've decided to focus mainly on a Silence Druid deck for this season. I'll switch things up to complete quests, but the primary focus is that deck. Here's the list I'll be running:
Yeah I don't see Mukla making any sense in this deck.
I'd throw in at least one deathlord if possible.
Oddly enough, Mukla works really well. While the bananas suck, playing them makes you lose curve and usually isn't enough to take Mukla out. Of course, Mage is a huge problem with 1-cost spells.
Mukla can be either Loatheb (good) or Druid of the Flame (average). Fel Reaver is actually really good since you don't care about the burn and have lots of ways to silence it. If you just don't have it, umm....another high damage card. Maybe Merc Venture Co? Sounds like a bad sub though.
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0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Tried out all-the-armor control warrior again, first matchup is against Anyfin Pally.
Turns out the secret to beating 32 points of burst from 1 card is to take that on the chin and still have over 40 life.
(though it was hilarious that both brawls and revenge were in my bottom 6 cards, and I drew them in the exact right order to actually clean up the board properly and seal the game.)
Why doesnt Brann work on Druid battlecries? It almost cost me a game against a Facehunter while trying out a Dragon Druid deck and I tried to heal myself with Ancient of Lore.
Just as a heads-up, I've decided to focus mainly on a Silence Druid deck for this season. I'll switch things up to complete quests, but the primary focus is that deck. Here's the list I'll be running:
Yeah I don't see Mukla making any sense in this deck.
I'd throw in at least one deathlord if possible.
Oddly enough, Mukla works really well. While the bananas suck, playing them makes you lose curve and usually isn't enough to take Mukla out. Of course, Mage is a huge problem with 1-cost spells.
Mukla can be either Loatheb (good) or Druid of the Flame (average). Fel Reaver is actually really good since you don't care about the burn and have lots of ways to silence it. If you just don't have it, umm....another high damage card. Maybe Merc Venture Co? Sounds like a bad sub though.
I've always been a fan of venture merc. He has really good stats (the six HP is the seller) for the same cost as fell reaver, except the opponent can't punish you as bad for it.
Plus, if he gets peace keepered or alderan (w/e that card is), your silence still holds legit.
Gonna try this deck with some tweaks (maybe one swipe less, etc.).
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Why doesnt Brann work on Druid battlecries? It almost cost me a game against a Facehunter while trying out a Dragon Druid deck and I tried to heal myself with Ancient of Lore.
Because they're not Battlecries. They're Choose One. Different mechanic.
If it said Battlecry: Choose One like it says Battlecry: Discover, then it would work with Brann, but it's not so it doesn't.
Why doesnt Brann work on Druid battlecries? It almost cost me a game against a Facehunter while trying out a Dragon Druid deck and I tried to heal myself with Ancient of Lore.
ancient of lore does not say battlecry anywhere on its text
Just as a heads-up, I've decided to focus mainly on a Silence Druid deck for this season. I'll switch things up to complete quests, but the primary focus is that deck. Here's the list I'll be running:
Yeah I don't see Mukla making any sense in this deck.
I'd throw in at least one deathlord if possible.
Oddly enough, Mukla works really well. While the bananas suck, playing them makes you lose curve and usually isn't enough to take Mukla out. Of course, Mage is a huge problem with 1-cost spells.
Mukla can be either Loatheb (good) or Druid of the Flame (average). Fel Reaver is actually really good since you don't care about the burn and have lots of ways to silence it. If you just don't have it, umm....another high damage card. Maybe Merc Venture Co? Sounds like a bad sub though.
I've always been a fan of venture merc. He has really good stats (the six HP is the seller) for the same cost as fell reaver, except the opponent can't punish you as bad for it.
Plus, if he gets peace keepered or alderan (w/e that card is), your silence still holds legit.
Gonna try this deck with some tweaks (maybe one swipe less, etc.).
Go for it. I'd highly recommend watching the stream though on how to pilot it properly. Cutting a Swipe seems awful dangerous though.
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basically, if it said "gain +whatever" like ancient of war did, it got the boost
if it said "become a 4/6 taunt" like druid of the whatchacallit it was a 1/1
They actually have the same wording: Choose one - X or Y. It's a pretty strange inconsistency, but it's been consistently so since launch. (I.e. you can silence the Ancient but not the Bear.)
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You're right - the better statement is that they will try to print cards that are good in different archetypes at the same time. Even then, not all cards are going to be equivalent for their respective archetypes. I feel that control and mid-range decks made out better in that trade.
Though with Tunnel Trog, Shaman NEEDED some kind of help to get a viable deck going and aggro variant with burst is the easiest deck to design for.
Don't trade with your chargers unless you absolutely must. Also look ahead a turn or two and see if you can set up on your current turn for a finisher on the next.
The most important thing is you want to deal as much damage as possible, and sometimes that means you go face with your spells even though you can't finish the game yet in order to have that mana available for more stuff in the future.
Dark Peddler isn't an aggro card, it's a combo card! How else are you going to get the third/fourth POs to make your arcane golem + faceless OTK a control warrior?
strictly speaking, a 1 mana card with conditional attack increase (mana wyrm, tunnel trogg) is an aggressive tool, because the midrange/control function of a 1drop is to contest the early drops of the opponent, in which case you don't want anything conditional - this is part of the reason gadgetzan jouster never replaced or supplemented zombie chow
Yeah. Like the Arena streamers have been talking about, I have no idea wtf's going on with the Arena meta nowadays.
Edit: HearthArena says its average card quality is 64. I'm pretty sure 12-win decks are supposed to be better than 64.
that makes a lot of sense! thanks
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Tech swaps include: -2 Zombie Chow, -1 Mukla, +2 Living Roots, +1 Loatheb
Let's see if I can hit rank 5!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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I hit a bunch of 8,9, and 10 win runs this weekend, but I just could not get to 12. I feel like my overall win rate average is going up, but finding it so much harder to hit 12.
Warlock opponent had already spent his mana except for a decision he was trying to make about summoning the 3-damage-to-self Imp - the only card in his hand, after using his hero power to draw it. I'd cleared his board the turn before, so he didn't have anything that could attack this turn, and the 3 damage would have no effect on whether or not I could drop lethal. On my board was a Silver Hand Recruit and a 1-charge Truesilver Champion. In my hand was an Everyfin is Awesome, with two Murloc Warleaders and Ol' Murk Eye ready to be regenerated.
I coulda had him, man!
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
man when the game launched with killing a minion at five mana the ship of good answers saw the port they were sailing into and said "woah fuck this let's not come here" and sailed off to uh....i don't know, netrunner.
Golden Wrath, Bear Trap, and Lock and Load. 500 dust, not too shabby. Puts me at 5720 dust for the next expansion.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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assassinate is still pretty dope in arena tho
i think people really underestimate just how many people play hearthstone
I mean, I found it refreshing that "kill anything no matter what" spells weren't just 1 and 2 like MtG. But that was before they made a bunch of powerful deathrattle guys, and at the very least there should be a removal spell by now that does 3 damage or so and silences the minion if its a deathrattle or whatever.
The state of the game is such that no one can even stop a T1 Leper Gnome from dealing at least 2 face damage except for Shaman with Earth Shock, so of course control decks are going to be few and far between. You can really "control" very little if your opponent curves out perfectly.
The problem with Runts is that 2/6 at 6 mana is soooo slow. With Highmane, it's big enough that it's a threat. Most people just ignore the 2/6, as they should, and ironically, it's big butt is actually an impediment to my ability to suicide it to get the 2/2s.
It's one of those cards that waggles between great and shit.
Yeah I don't see Mukla making any sense in this deck.
I'd throw in at least one deathlord if possible.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
... and how hard it is to break out of Rank ~15.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Thanks, really appreciate the advice. I had played the Reynad deck that was a mech shaman aggro deck. I tried yours with a few modifications because I don't have all the cards. I only have one argent horse rider, one lava burst and one flame juggler. I added two unbound elementals and al-akir and it still feels like a very good deck!
Oddly enough, Mukla works really well. While the bananas suck, playing them makes you lose curve and usually isn't enough to take Mukla out. Of course, Mage is a huge problem with 1-cost spells.
Seriously though, check out Crusher's stream to see the Mukla value.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Is Mukla substitutable? and the Fel Reaver?
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Yep, that was the one theorized use of that card when it first came out (aside from Watcher shenanigans), but Freeze was never meta-defining enough after that point for it to come in.
Yeah, you usually need to plan out turns 2, 3, and 4 from turn 1 so that you go into turn 5 with 5 mana. It's also often correct to keep Doomhammer in the mulligan because it's crucial to beating slow decks.
Not sure what to think of that.
Mukla can be either Loatheb (good) or Druid of the Flame (average). Fel Reaver is actually really good since you don't care about the burn and have lots of ways to silence it. If you just don't have it, umm....another high damage card. Maybe Merc Venture Co? Sounds like a bad sub though.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Turns out the secret to beating 32 points of burst from 1 card is to take that on the chin and still have over 40 life.
(though it was hilarious that both brawls and revenge were in my bottom 6 cards, and I drew them in the exact right order to actually clean up the board properly and seal the game.)
I've always been a fan of venture merc. He has really good stats (the six HP is the seller) for the same cost as fell reaver, except the opponent can't punish you as bad for it.
Plus, if he gets peace keepered or alderan (w/e that card is), your silence still holds legit.
Gonna try this deck with some tweaks (maybe one swipe less, etc.).
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Because they're not Battlecries. They're Choose One. Different mechanic.
If it said Battlecry: Choose One like it says Battlecry: Discover, then it would work with Brann, but it's not so it doesn't.
ancient of lore does not say battlecry anywhere on its text
Go for it. I'd highly recommend watching the stream though on how to pilot it properly. Cutting a Swipe seems awful dangerous though.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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I felt better when I played an opponent who was running Feugen and Stalagg, and what's-his-face came out as a 1/1.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
basically, if it said "gain +whatever" like ancient of war did, it got the boost
if it said "become a 4/6 taunt" like druid of the whatchacallit it was a 1/1
They actually have the same wording: Choose one - X or Y. It's a pretty strange inconsistency, but it's been consistently so since launch. (I.e. you can silence the Ancient but not the Bear.)