also while i would have advocated a kime kill at some point in the game sooner than what happened i don't think it's crazy to presume that the first half of the game the prince is probably guarded or driven or all sorts of things that can cause a lot of problems
Totally not crazy. As the game went on, I expected my death more and more haha
Hey Austin, gg at the end here. It was a good plan top just kill everyone.
cj, is there a reason Gizzy got the kill off even while I roleblocked her?
The anarch kill isn't attached to anyone
I TOLD YOU YOU WERE MAKING SHIT UP
Oh. Huh. That was convenient I guess.
You see how one gets when they're being killed because of rule interpretations they know are wrong, but will give the people doing it the wrong impression? :so_raven:
also also i think future vtm games might need to aggressively mix up the powers, if another "choose your power" set-up gets used
at this point most people have sussed out What's The Kill, What's The Seer
I get what your saying, but how is auspex ever not going to be the seer power. It's literally super senses, right?
And similarly, potency is pretty much always going to be a kill. Protean and Vicissitude have enough other stuff going on they can be mixed up, but I'm not sure how many non-thaumaturgy disciplines could take their place?
auspex allows you to predict the future and guard BOOM DONE
Oh also: Day 2 in particular of the Sabbat Proboard is a treasure. For context, here's the PM thread with the soft-network me and Martoss (Sabbat) had with Austin and Brody, that started after I said "Martoss: Mez Gambit is a go". Sorry for the lack of timestamps, but it should be pretty obvious how it synchs up with the proboard thread.
There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
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WhiteZinfandelYour insidesLet me show you themRegistered Userregular
Potence could sorta be wrangled into a guard. Btw CJ, if I ever get the option I'm taking Chimerstry in a heartbeat. That shit would be amazing.
also while i would have advocated a kime kill at some point in the game sooner than what happened i don't think it's crazy to presume that the first half of the game the prince is probably guarded or driven or all sorts of things that can cause a lot of problems
Totally not crazy. As the game went on, I expected my death more and more haha
Hey Austin, gg at the end here. It was a good plan top just kill everyone.
cj, is there a reason Gizzy got the kill off even while I roleblocked her?
The anarch kill isn't attached to anyone
I TOLD YOU YOU WERE MAKING SHIT UP
Oh. Huh. That was convenient I guess.
You see how one gets when they're being killed because of rule interpretations they know are wrong, but will give the people doing it the wrong impression? :so_raven:
I gave kime the information I thought I had
I took the whole kill not being tied to some one but I said fuck it and sent it anyways
sorry
The Cow King on
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
No one attacked kime until the last night, which blew my mind repeatedly.
Gizzy also did not use her kill as a (admittedly clever) ploy to appear as the Anarch target. Had she done so, I think she would have won.
Also, the aforementioned mistake was my sending Preda an incorrect result of chamberlain's disciplines, for which I deeply apologize.
Wait, so was there really not a guard the entire game?
It sounds like no one took whatever power would count as one?
Fortitude 2 was an "extra life" you could use as a guard. It seemed worth saving since nobody was targeting kime.
I died to the Eye because I guarded Preda due to a misunderstanding about whether I'd still be OK if he wasn't hit, in fact!
I don't know what Fortitude 3 did. I don't think anyone took it.
Someone did: Baidol. It pretty much stopped ANY attack shy of the Prince/Vote. No one targeted him when he invoked it.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Also, FWIW as far as you new guys:
Asking around by PM in a game where we're not just plain-old Villagers is pretty powerful no matter what you have going on. It's how I caught Bedlam, figured out the mafia distribution, and so on.
I was caught up with kime info-wise by the day I died!
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WhiteZinfandelYour insidesLet me show you themRegistered Userregular
To be fair, it's also how you got two innocent Brujah killed.
To be fair, it's also how you got two innocent Brujah killed.
People gotta die so we can learn stuff; that's just mafia.
You, at least, were not really my pick for a guy to kill, but I put it to the vote because kime wouldn't agree on a plan I liked better, as detailed above.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I went out of my way to ensure half of each mafia was not the 'obvious' clan. Anarchs had one Gangrel, one Brujah, two RNG, Sabbat had one Tzimisce, one Lasombra, two RNG.
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WhiteZinfandelYour insidesLet me show you themRegistered Userregular
I went out of my way to ensure half of each mafia was not the 'obvious' clan. Anarchs had one Gangrel, one Brujah, two RNG, Sabbat had one Tzimisce, one Lasombra, two RNG.
This was a good idea. I remember using assumptions of symmetry successfully in at least the Demon game. There was one asymmetrical VTM game that I remember being thrown by. So many Brujah.
Oh also: Day 2 in particular of the Sabbat Proboard is a treasure. For context, here's the PM thread with the soft-network me and Martoss (Sabbat) had with Austin and Brody, that started after I said "Martoss: Mez Gambit is a go". Sorry for the lack of timestamps, but it should be pretty obvious how it synchs up with the proboard thread.
Heh, I love how we scrambled so hard to fix things only for the Anarchs to render all our efforts moot. Could have been the greatest recovery ever if I hadn't died first!
Gizzy also did not use her kill as a (admittedly clever) ploy to appear as the Anarch target. Had she done so, I think she would have won.
I could have, but would have felt really shitty b/c I would have had to kill AustinP.
If I killed Kime we'd have:
38thDoe - Prince
GG
Gizzy
AustinP - "neutral" (but technically not really)
We would have voted out GG, 38th Doe would have Prince killed me.
If I targeted Doe .. he gazed me and would have bus driven the kill onto either Kime, GG, or AustinP.
If to Kime repeat scenario A.
If to GG - Kime would have voted one of me and Doe, killed the other.
If to AustinP - I would have had a chance if I could get GG voted off, and Doe Prince killed.
So I went the nicer route thinking Austin could win with me.
NEVER AGAIN!
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
fwiw
i was all about letting discrider live a day or two.
but kime wantde the kill.
Hysteria was not the easiest derangement to play.
a Mage gameme would be hellish.
a Werewolf game on the other hand....
If I killed Kime we'd have:
38thDoe - Prince
GG
Gizzy
AustinP - "neutral" (but technically not really)
We would have voted out GG, 38th Doe would have Prince killed me.
I guess maybe there's a chance Doe would have refrained from using his Prince Kill.
In that case I'd mafia kill Doe.
And it'd me be and old Austin here claiming for village and stealing my soul.
I'm not sure why in the end the roleblock that was busdriven off of me onto AustinP didn't stop him from soul stealing me. Thus giving us an extra day for him to decide who to declare with.
Gizzy on
Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
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i was all about letting discrider live a day or two.
but kime wantde the kill.
Hysteria was not the easiest derangement to play.
a Mage gameme would be hellish.
a Werewolf game on the other hand....
hmmm
thanks for running cj.
Eh.
My powers sort of sucked so I probably would have spent the days randomly redirecting people's votes and/or doing nothing.
I picked full dominate btw.
But you guys already knew that and would've known that as soon as the purple landed on me.
Didn't appreciate kime forcing the matter however.
Good job continuing the trend of Giovanni excellence and overall superiority. Now that the clods are out of the way, let us get on with the real work. -gestures to his limo powered by the souls of fallen Princes from the last game-
Sadly I picked fairly poorly power-wise, but I finally got the nerve to contact kime and suggest that I bus-drive someone that night only to die the same day! Curses!
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
But cripes, every single time I just keep my head down and vote I end up eating a vote... I keep saying it, quiet=/= mafia! :biggrin:
Quiet doesn't equal mafia, but there are no tells from someone who doesn't interact with the thread at all so you might be mafia and have tive killed. Games with a ton of quiet people are usually mafia victories because there are too many villagers who need to be killed.
Good job continuing the trend of Giovanni excellence and overall superiority. Now that the clods are out of the way, let us get on with the real work. -gestures to his limo powered by the souls of fallen Princes from the last game-
I was Giovanni in one of the Columbus games. We also got out of that one winning.
Shame I didn't live last past one day (thought disc did apologize for killing me, though he played it correctly and no apology is needed).
At least I felt like I did something to help by nailing 1 anarch from beyond the grave.
So, the problem I have when I run these games is that most information is public, so everyone knows who can be potentially seers or vigs. I've considered changing things around, but really it would go from killing all Tremere and Toreador to killing all whoever got the new seer power (Presence or Dominate would be my next choices for seers).
I mean, if I hid all information, that may work, but that would only help the mafias since they'd figure it out quickly.
It's a tough problem.
Edit, also I figured @Gizzy was Anarch because she was SOOOOOOOOO quiet this game. Village Gizzy isn't nearly as quiet. From day 4 on I kept hoping Kime would kill her.
Shame I didn't live last past one day (thought disc did apologize for killing me, though he played it correctly and no apology is needed).
At least I felt like I did something to help by nailing 1 anarch from beyond the grave.
So, the problem I have when I run these games is that most information is public, so everyone knows who can be potentially seers or vigs. I've considered changing things around, but really it would go from killing all Tremere and Toreador to killing all whoever got the new seer power (Presence or Dominate would be my next choices for seers).
I mean, if I hid all information, that may work, but that would only help the mafias since they'd figure it out quickly.
It's a tough problem.
Edit, also I figured @Gizzy was Anarch because she was SOOOOOOOOO quiet this game. Village Gizzy isn't nearly as quiet. From day 4 on I kept hoping Kime would kill her.
Maybe next time you won't nail the correct number of mafia right off the bat :P
Shame I didn't live last past one day (thought disc did apologize for killing me, though he played it correctly and no apology is needed).
At least I felt like I did something to help by nailing 1 anarch from beyond the grave.
So, the problem I have when I run these games is that most information is public, so everyone knows who can be potentially seers or vigs. I've considered changing things around, but really it would go from killing all Tremere and Toreador to killing all whoever got the new seer power (Presence or Dominate would be my next choices for seers).
I mean, if I hid all information, that may work, but that would only help the mafias since they'd figure it out quickly.
It's a tough problem.
Edit, also I figured Gizzy was Anarch because she was SOOOOOOOOO quiet this game. Village Gizzy isn't nearly as quiet. From day 4 on I kept hoping Kime would kill her.
I mean, that's the exact reason I cited for why we might ought to kill her! Unfortunately the other Brujah weren't doing a ton (because they couldn't, apparently) to prove they were good guys.
I figured that when Gizzy started going after me, like hardcore going after me, that she was anarch. She wasn't a seer, no one had been talking to her, at least none of the people connected to kime had spoken about her, yet here she was going at me with fury. And I hadn't done anything to her. But I hadn't been talking to people enough nor had any powers that would have let me get anything I could use against her, so it was basically my feelings against a group of people who just love to see GG written in red. I'm very popular!
So I went the nicer route thinking Austin could win with me.
NEVER AGAIN!
I appreciate it! Fwiw, Kime had you selected as his prince kill the minute the last day started, so I'd guess even if you did kill me, he was going to off you.
Good job continuing the trend of Giovanni excellence and overall superiority. Now that the clods are out of the way, let us get on with the real work. -gestures to his limo powered by the souls of fallen Princes from the last game-
The thing here is that Necromancy specifically makes it so easy to become a non-threatening neutral. I could immediately prove I was who I claimed to be in a very clear way (both to the village at the end, as well as to kime when I revealed to him early on). If I picked the right targets, I could appear to be on the side of the village (by choosing people who had strong opinions to come back and share), and because I was neutral, the Anarchs really didn't have much of a need to kill me as long as I didn't go out of my way to stop them.
I had actually started the game by revealing to Brody, and when we both found we were neutrals, we said we should go find the Anarchs or Sabbat to help instead of just playing along with the village. I probably could have done some real damage to the village by role blocking someone every other night, and using the alternating nights to bring back whatever mafia was dead to ensure a villager kept getting voted out.
Only problem with that plan is that it requires finding the mafia. That's literally the reason I revealed to kime, because I honestly thought there was a good chance he was mafia, and I was hoping he'd start leading me to off villagers and reveal that he was Anarch.
Edit, also I figured @Gizzy was Anarch because she was SOOOOOOOOO quiet this game. Village Gizzy isn't nearly as quiet. From day 4 on I kept hoping Kime would kill her.
I do try to mix it up and be quiet sometimes when I'm village. Usually in vanilla games though - I can't resist heavy participation in these kinds of games full of information and powers.
Still working on finding a medium ground bt quiet and full charge - after 3 years still haven't gotten there.
Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
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WhiteZinfandelYour insidesLet me show you themRegistered Userregular
I figured that when Gizzy started going after me, like hardcore going after me, that she was anarch. She wasn't a seer, no one had been talking to her, at least none of the people connected to kime had spoken about her, yet here she was going at me with fury. And I hadn't done anything to her. But I hadn't been talking to people enough nor had any powers that would have let me get anything I could use against her, so it was basically my feelings against a group of people who just love to see GG written in red. I'm very popular!
Aside from having some background information, that's the precise reasoning I had for suspecting you.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Also, I'm pretty sure if I had used my roleblock on whoever it was that killed me, I would have survived, but IRL had been hectic the whole game, and so I forgot to send in any action that night. Oh well.
Also, the vote manip on day 2? was me.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I figured that when Gizzy started going after me, like hardcore going after me, that she was anarch. She wasn't a seer, no one had been talking to her, at least none of the people connected to kime had spoken about her, yet here she was going at me with fury. And I hadn't done anything to her. But I hadn't been talking to people enough nor had any powers that would have let me get anything I could use against her, so it was basically my feelings against a group of people who just love to see GG written in red. I'm very popular!
Aside from having some background information, that's the precise reasoning I had for suspecting you.
Also, Leopold/Bedlam's kill didn't take affect until the Sabbat died(or the Anarchs). Hopefully that didn't make it too hard on him, but he did dang well, all things considered. He was the SK.
Yeah I was wondering about this. I was always the Sk but I didn't have any offensive ability at the beginning of the game. So I didn't actually take an action until the eye of gehenna kicked in and I finally got to kill people. If I had been thinking better about trying to blend in I would have gone auspex and tried to infiltrate the network, but day 0 was my birthday so I didn't want to spend too much time agonizing over it and just guessed.
Can you elaborate? Because I know I never told anybody I was neutral and up until I received the eye of gehenna kill everything I said about myself was true. I was a toredor with presence 3.
Im not mad that I lost because winning as SK is hard as hell, but I think the way I got taken out was complete bullshit.
Bedlam on
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Can you elaborate? Because I know I never told anybody I was neutral and up until I received the eye of gehenna kill everything I said about myself was true. I was a toredor with presence 3.
Im not mad that I lost because winning as SK is hard as hell, but I think the way I got taken out was complete bullshit.
You were the last Toreador and there'd been one bad guy per clan. All the dead Toreador were Camarilla.
It's also why kime was pretty sure Chamberlain was a bad dude, I believe.
In retrospect we should've cleaned you two up and then worried about the Brujah.
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You see how one gets when they're being killed because of rule interpretations they know are wrong, but will give the people doing it the wrong impression? :so_raven:
auspex allows you to predict the future and guard BOOM DONE
I gave kime the information I thought I had
I took the whole kill not being tied to some one but I said fuck it and sent it anyways
sorry
No joke. Moral of the story: if you have a clan specific discipline, go all in.
Someone did: Baidol. It pretty much stopped ANY attack shy of the Prince/Vote. No one targeted him when he invoked it.
Asking around by PM in a game where we're not just plain-old Villagers is pretty powerful no matter what you have going on. It's how I caught Bedlam, figured out the mafia distribution, and so on.
I was caught up with kime info-wise by the day I died!
People gotta die so we can learn stuff; that's just mafia.
You, at least, were not really my pick for a guy to kill, but I put it to the vote because kime wouldn't agree on a plan I liked better, as detailed above.
This was a good idea. I remember using assumptions of symmetry successfully in at least the Demon game. There was one asymmetrical VTM game that I remember being thrown by. So many Brujah.
For the record, I didn't lie to anyone about anything.
Heh, I love how we scrambled so hard to fix things only for the Anarchs to render all our efforts moot. Could have been the greatest recovery ever if I hadn't died first!
I could have, but would have felt really shitty b/c I would have had to kill AustinP.
If I killed Kime we'd have:
38thDoe - Prince
GG
Gizzy
AustinP - "neutral" (but technically not really)
We would have voted out GG, 38th Doe would have Prince killed me.
If I targeted Doe .. he gazed me and would have bus driven the kill onto either Kime, GG, or AustinP.
If to Kime repeat scenario A.
If to GG - Kime would have voted one of me and Doe, killed the other.
If to AustinP - I would have had a chance if I could get GG voted off, and Doe Prince killed.
So I went the nicer route thinking Austin could win with me.
NEVER AGAIN!
Island Name: Felinefine
i was all about letting discrider live a day or two.
but kime wantde the kill.
Hysteria was not the easiest derangement to play.
a Mage gameme would be hellish.
a Werewolf game on the other hand....
hmmm
thanks for running cj.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
I guess maybe there's a chance Doe would have refrained from using his Prince Kill.
In that case I'd mafia kill Doe.
And it'd me be and old Austin here claiming for village and stealing my soul.
I'm not sure why in the end the roleblock that was busdriven off of me onto AustinP didn't stop him from soul stealing me. Thus giving us an extra day for him to decide who to declare with.
Island Name: Felinefine
Eh.
My powers sort of sucked so I probably would have spent the days randomly redirecting people's votes and/or doing nothing.
I picked full dominate btw.
But you guys already knew that and would've known that as soon as the purple landed on me.
Didn't appreciate kime forcing the matter however.
Good job continuing the trend of Giovanni excellence and overall superiority. Now that the clods are out of the way, let us get on with the real work. -gestures to his limo powered by the souls of fallen Princes from the last game-
But cripes, every single time I just keep my head down and vote I end up eating a vote... I keep saying it, quiet=/= mafia! :biggrin:
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Sadly I picked fairly poorly power-wise, but I finally got the nerve to contact kime and suggest that I bus-drive someone that night only to die the same day! Curses!
Quiet doesn't equal mafia, but there are no tells from someone who doesn't interact with the thread at all so you might be mafia and have tive killed. Games with a ton of quiet people are usually mafia victories because there are too many villagers who need to be killed.
I was Giovanni in one of the Columbus games. We also got out of that one winning.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Shame I didn't live last past one day (thought disc did apologize for killing me, though he played it correctly and no apology is needed).
At least I felt like I did something to help by nailing 1 anarch from beyond the grave.
So, the problem I have when I run these games is that most information is public, so everyone knows who can be potentially seers or vigs. I've considered changing things around, but really it would go from killing all Tremere and Toreador to killing all whoever got the new seer power (Presence or Dominate would be my next choices for seers).
I mean, if I hid all information, that may work, but that would only help the mafias since they'd figure it out quickly.
It's a tough problem.
Edit, also I figured @Gizzy was Anarch because she was SOOOOOOOOO quiet this game. Village Gizzy isn't nearly as quiet. From day 4 on I kept hoping Kime would kill her.
Maybe next time you won't nail the correct number of mafia right off the bat :P
I mean, that's the exact reason I cited for why we might ought to kill her! Unfortunately the other Brujah weren't doing a ton (because they couldn't, apparently) to prove they were good guys.
I appreciate it! Fwiw, Kime had you selected as his prince kill the minute the last day started, so I'd guess even if you did kill me, he was going to off you.
Brothers! Come to Atlanta. A whole city for us to reap. After all, they must expect it having a Necromatic Prince.
The thing here is that Necromancy specifically makes it so easy to become a non-threatening neutral. I could immediately prove I was who I claimed to be in a very clear way (both to the village at the end, as well as to kime when I revealed to him early on). If I picked the right targets, I could appear to be on the side of the village (by choosing people who had strong opinions to come back and share), and because I was neutral, the Anarchs really didn't have much of a need to kill me as long as I didn't go out of my way to stop them.
I had actually started the game by revealing to Brody, and when we both found we were neutrals, we said we should go find the Anarchs or Sabbat to help instead of just playing along with the village. I probably could have done some real damage to the village by role blocking someone every other night, and using the alternating nights to bring back whatever mafia was dead to ensure a villager kept getting voted out.
Only problem with that plan is that it requires finding the mafia. That's literally the reason I revealed to kime, because I honestly thought there was a good chance he was mafia, and I was hoping he'd start leading me to off villagers and reveal that he was Anarch.
http://nomasters.freeforums.net/
I do try to mix it up and be quiet sometimes when I'm village. Usually in vanilla games though - I can't resist heavy participation in these kinds of games full of information and powers.
Still working on finding a medium ground bt quiet and full charge - after 3 years still haven't gotten there.
Island Name: Felinefine
Aside from having some background information, that's the precise reasoning I had for suspecting you.
Also, I'm pretty sure if I had used my roleblock on whoever it was that killed me, I would have survived, but IRL had been hectic the whole game, and so I forgot to send in any action that night. Oh well.
Also, the vote manip on day 2? was me.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
You should get your mafiadar fixed.
Thanks MagicPrime, ahava, Auralynx, & Austin for doing most of the work in our victory and not letting me sabotage the village!
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Im not mad that I lost because winning as SK is hard as hell, but I think the way I got taken out was complete bullshit.
You were the last Toreador and there'd been one bad guy per clan. All the dead Toreador were Camarilla.
It's also why kime was pretty sure Chamberlain was a bad dude, I believe.
In retrospect we should've cleaned you two up and then worried about the Brujah.