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Discovering [Star Trek] on Netflix

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  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    The core question of the franchise has finally been answered. It has haunted us for fifty years, but now we finally know with full certainty
    what Klingon boobies look like

    Happiness is within reach!
  • Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    Newest ep
    The moment she opened her communicator and the Klingons just started speaking in English was a moment of profound relief.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    The core question of the franchise has finally been answered. It has haunted us for fifty years, but now we finally know with full certainty
    what Klingon boobies look like
    I dunno, I think Lursa and B'etor gave us a good window into that mystery...

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Haven't even watched this show and all the talk of the Klingon speech clogging up the scenes makes me think of The Hunt for Red October where the whole translation thing is dealt with handily by a simple zoom-in-zoom-out followed by a switchover to English from Russian. The kind of people interested in watching Star Trek are not going to struggle with the idea that Klingon speech is being rendered into English for ease of understanding and servicing the scenes, instead of clumsily bogging things down with sticking to an artificial language.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    They actually finally did ... something like that this weekend (not gonna spoil) and yes, the scene(s) flowed so much smoother, oh my god.

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    A ton of people have to be complaining about that. Could they finally be listening?

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    And yeah, the...other scene, just grabbed me as pandering for a controversy. No one needed/wanted to see anything quite that explicit.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Kashaar wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »

    Oh good news! I thought we'd only get a 9 episode season. But sounds like chapter two is still season 1? What? Confuse me more pls

    ?
    mid-season breaks are very common for TV Shows

    On tv networks, they're not always the formula for streaming and the ones which do do this (like on Netflix and Hulu) are already airing weekly on tv. CBS still needs to figure out streaming isn't shooting tv shows 1 = 1. If they wanted to do this they should have kept it on a tv channel simultaneously.

    Harry Dresden on
  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    I thing the klingon speech is butts because they're doing the subtitled dialogue backwards. Normally you have people speaking naturally in whatever language and get a subtitle that conveys the same meaning and can be read in around the same time as it takes to say. Here they're writing the dialogue for the subtitles, translating that, then having the talking run to how long they think it takes to read. The result is a delivery that feels really off and slow.

    l5sruu1fyatf.jpg

  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    There may be other stuff contributing to that problem like wanting a one to one translation to appease nerds or canon klingon vocabulary being too limited, but I don't know enough about klingon to tell if that's the case.

    l5sruu1fyatf.jpg

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited November 2017
    VoodooV wrote: »
    A ton of people have to be complaining about that. Could they finally be listening?

    I don't think it's at all possible that anything we've seen so far was produced after the show began airing; I can't imagine any of these episodes go out the door with less than a couple months of postproduction work.

    The language thing is one of these weird things that the show has decided, for whatever reason, to dig its feet into the ground and make a stand on principle for reasons that completely elude me. The universal translator, and the idea that aliens are actually speaking their own language and we're just hearing English, has been a core conceit of Star Trek since before the first pilot was even filmed and it's always just kind of passed unremarked-upon. It's never been a big deal.

    But it feels iike the production team was terrified that that tacit understanding between show and audience wouldn't be shared in the year of our satan 2017, like if they just went with it they'd be opening themselves up to a bunch of nonsense internet critiques ("how do aliens know English? FAIL") and five-hour-long rant videos on Youtube by the Angry Shouting Fat Guy Who Pours Canola Oil On Himself While Fucking A Hole in the Drywall (he has 1.8 million subscribers!) so they subjected us to this really tortuous eight-episode process to make 100% sure we know ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT that Klingons are actually speaking Klingon.

    But if that means this is done now and we can move on in a shared spirit of just letting the aliens speak English so the story can move along at a better clip, fine. Fine.

    Jacobkosh on
  • AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    What if
    this was an alternate reality and they now jumped to either of the other original Star trek realities/timelines?

    Alphagaia on
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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    They're in
    the Babylon 5 universe.

    ZhtB2on.png
    KZAlEwg.jpg

  • Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    What if
    this was an alternate reality and they now jumped to either of the other original Star trek realities/timelines?
    The fact that they specifically brought up alternate universes in the episode makes me think something happened as well.

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  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    What if
    this was an alternate reality and they now jumped to either of the other original Star trek realities/timelines?
    The fact that they specifically brought up alternate universes in the episode makes me think something happened as well.

    It also
    Explains stammets changes in personality. We know from the time loop episode he exists outside the normal parameters of existance. I would bet good money that all the stammets everyone swaps realities each jump except stammets, who had a different personality in each reality.

  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    edited November 2017
    They're in
    the Babylon 5 universe.

    ZhtB2on.png
    KZAlEwg.jpg

    They read this thread then for sure.

    Agreed on Mid Season Breaks for stream-only shows being very strange.

    Curious that the (speculative but basically confirmed via imdb)
    Klingon dude altered to be the security dude doesn't know, wonder if that's setting up a Manchurian Candidate situation or if it's just going to be has to make a tortured choice between lives.

    Snicketysnick on
    7qmGNt5.png
  • Baron Of HellBaron Of Hell Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    A ton of people have to be complaining about that. Could they finally be listening?

    This episode was completed way before there was any complaining. If they make any changes to the show due to complaints you won't see them until season 2.

  • minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field ---Registered User, Transition Team regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    A ton of people have to be complaining about that. Could they finally be listening?

    I don't think it's at all possible that anything we've seen so far was produced after the show began airing; I can't imagine any of these episodes go out the door with less than a couple months of postproduction work.

    The language thing is one of these weird things that the show has decided, for whatever reason, to dig its feet into the ground and make a stand on principle for reasons that completely elude me. The universal translator, and the idea that aliens are actually speaking their own language and we're just hearing English, has been a core conceit of Star Trek since before the first pilot was even filmed and it's always just kind of passed unremarked-upon. It's never been a big deal.

    But it feels iike the production team was terrified that that tacit understanding between show and audience wouldn't be shared in the year of our satan 2017, like if they just went with it they'd be opening themselves up to a bunch of nonsense internet critiques ("how do aliens know English? FAIL") and five-hour-long rant videos on Youtube by the Angry Shouting Fat Guy Who Pours Canola Oil On Himself While Fucking A Hole in the Drywall (he has 1.8 million subscribers!) so they subjected us to this really tortuous eight-episode process to make 100% sure we know ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT that Klingons are actually speaking Klingon.

    But if that means this is done now and we can move on in a shared spirit of just letting the aliens speak English so the story can move along at a better clip, fine. Fine.

    Hey now, I'll have you know that Angry Shouting Fat Guy Who Pours Canola Oil On Himself While Fucking A Hole in the Drywall had a really pertinent diatribe about how Supergirl is the product of a misandrist society because it makes Superman into a "cuck".

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
  • ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    Latest ep ending:
    Lorca ABSOLUTELY sabotaged the last jump. He goes into manual control, and the coordinates after the override say "Unknown", right before he says "Let's go home." Maybe home for Lorca is somewhere else? My bet is that he's from the Mirror Universe, or from another Universe that failed to defeat the Klingons, and he's going back with the anti-cloaking data to destroy them.

    Lorca was the only survivor from his previous ship, a very strange thing to happen to a Captain. He's also weirdly possessive of Burnham. There's something more to this, and she's them key to helping him.

    g1xfUKU.png?10zfegkyoor3b.png
    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
  • AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Lorca
    does not want to go home and give up the Discovery. They said 'we will give you a medal', but it meant ' we are relocating you for disobedience because that ship is way to important' to have under control of such a liability.

    Alphagaia on
    Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?

    Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
    P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
    Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
    I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048

    See my profile here!
  • Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    Lorca
    does not want to go home and give up the Discovery. They said 'we will give you a medal', but it meant ' we are relocating you for disobedience because that ship is way to important' to have under control of such a liability.

    Also,
    The admiral survived. The one that was going to rat him out and take away his ship.

    (Switch Friend Code) SW-4910-9735-6014(PSN) timspork (Steam) timspork (XBox) Timspork


  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    They're in
    the Babylon 5 universe.

    ZhtB2on.png
    KZAlEwg.jpg

    They read this thread then for sure.

    Agreed on Mid Season Breaks for stream-only shows being very strange.

    Curious that the (speculative but basically confirmed via imdb)
    Klingon dude altered to be the security dude doesn't know, wonder if that's setting up a Manchurian Candidate situation or if it's just going to be has to make a tortured choice between lives.

    I thought the mid-season break was to allow the show to catch up with production, as in the last episodes were still not done (not sure if not filmed or just still in post-production) when the show premiered.

  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    They're in
    the Babylon 5 universe.

    ZhtB2on.png
    KZAlEwg.jpg

    They read this thread then for sure.

    Agreed on Mid Season Breaks for stream-only shows being very strange.

    Curious that the (speculative but basically confirmed via imdb)
    Klingon dude altered to be the security dude doesn't know, wonder if that's setting up a Manchurian Candidate situation or if it's just going to be has to make a tortured choice between lives.

    I thought the mid-season break was to allow the show to catch up with production, as in the last episodes were still not done (not sure if not filmed or just still in post-production) when the show premiered.

    Sure, but streaming is not beholden to the traditional TV scheduling, so production could have been allowed to finish before release, or this first section could have been released as the first series rather than first half and so on. It's just strange is all to not take advantage of the format.

    7qmGNt5.png
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    They're in
    the Babylon 5 universe.

    ZhtB2on.png
    KZAlEwg.jpg

    They read this thread then for sure.

    Agreed on Mid Season Breaks for stream-only shows being very strange.

    Curious that the (speculative but basically confirmed via imdb)
    Klingon dude altered to be the security dude doesn't know, wonder if that's setting up a Manchurian Candidate situation or if it's just going to be has to make a tortured choice between lives.

    I thought the mid-season break was to allow the show to catch up with production, as in the last episodes were still not done (not sure if not filmed or just still in post-production) when the show premiered.

    Sure, but streaming is not beholden to the traditional TV scheduling, so production could have been allowed to finish before release, or this first section could have been released as the first series rather than first half and so on. It's just strange is all to not take advantage of the format.

    With the ties to CBS's streaming service and desire to air the first episode during the regular season, I wouldn't be shocked if there were other factors at play in when the show premiered.

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Yeah, somebody shared that link in here about how CBS All Access isn't meant to be a real streaming service but a bargaining ploy while they renegotiate satellite and cable broadcast fees so I bet decisions like when shows premiere have way more to do with external business considerations than with how Netflix or Hulu would do it.

  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    A ton of people have to be complaining about that. Could they finally be listening?

    This episode was completed way before there was any complaining. If they make any changes to the show due to complaints you won't see them until season 2.

    Oh man, can you imagine getting all the actors back just to re-shoot those scenes, then dragging in all of the voice actors to do the dubbing in the four extra languages on netflix?

    Plus having to get it all done and edited within 4-6 weeks?

    l5sruu1fyatf.jpg

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    I really liked this episode. And I feel we might get some nice discoverin' done the rest of the season!

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    A ton of people have to be complaining about that. Could they finally be listening?

    I don't think it's at all possible that anything we've seen so far was produced after the show began airing; I can't imagine any of these episodes go out the door with less than a couple months of postproduction work.

    The language thing is one of these weird things that the show has decided, for whatever reason, to dig its feet into the ground and make a stand on principle for reasons that completely elude me. The universal translator, and the idea that aliens are actually speaking their own language and we're just hearing English, has been a core conceit of Star Trek since before the first pilot was even filmed and it's always just kind of passed unremarked-upon. It's never been a big deal.

    But it feels iike the production team was terrified that that tacit understanding between show and audience wouldn't be shared in the year of our satan 2017, like if they just went with it they'd be opening themselves up to a bunch of nonsense internet critiques ("how do aliens know English? FAIL") and five-hour-long rant videos on Youtube by the Angry Shouting Fat Guy Who Pours Canola Oil On Himself While Fucking A Hole in the Drywall (he has 1.8 million subscribers!) so they subjected us to this really tortuous eight-episode process to make 100% sure we know ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT that Klingons are actually speaking Klingon.

    But if that means this is done now and we can move on in a shared spirit of just letting the aliens speak English so the story can move along at a better clip, fine. Fine.

    Or maybe they thought it would be cool to hear the Klingon language, just like it's cool to hear Dothraki or Valerian or what have you in Game of Thrones. I'm pretty sure that's more likely than what you suggest.

    I'm sorry some people in this thread really don't like it, but I like it. I've read the complaints here that it's slow, but I don't think it actually is, I think you can just read faster than people speak.

    Also I wouldn't get your hopes up that this was some turning point in how they portray aliens speaking to each other. The only reason this was done this episode was because Burnham had a universal translator with her.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    I am amazed no one pointed out how the entire central idea of the episode was beyond stupid.
    If you can teleport onto the ship, and your stupidly complicated plan only tracks that one ship to blow it up, why the fuck don't you just blow it up? Send a bomb, not people!

    Happy coincidence the Admiral was there, but they didn't know that. The entire plan died the second they said "shields down". Morons.

    And time to replace your security chief it seems.

  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Because their goal was to
    figure out a way to defeat the Klingon cloak. Blowing up the tomb ship wouldn't help them against all the other Klingon ships that can cloak.

  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I am amazed no one pointed out how the entire central idea of the episode was beyond stupid.
    If you can teleport onto the ship, and your stupidly complicated plan only tracks that one ship to blow it up, why the fuck don't you just blow it up? Send a bomb, not people!

    Happy coincidence the Admiral was there, but they didn't know that. The entire plan died the second they said "shields down". Morons.

    And time to replace your security chief it seems.

    I'm not trying to be a dick, but were you paying attention while you watched this?

    Ep 9 spoilers
    The goal was not to blow up that ship, the goal was to collect radiation readings during the cloaking procedure. This data would help Starfleet detect any cloaked ship in the future. This is why the captain was willing to risk so much on this mission - success could mean winning the war.

    This on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Seems I wasn't close enough. This is good on the one hand, but that plan can't succeed so I plead extenuating facts clouding my judgment.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    But yes there is the broader question of why nobody blows up ships by transporting photon torpedoes onto the bridge or anything. The answer for that is that we wouldn't have a TV show if they did that.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    They could just come up with a reason
    to drop the shields that one time, but nope, they introduced a glaring weakness to be exploited that just won't be!

    Vindication :P (I still should have caught the rest of it...)

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    But yes there is the broader question of why nobody blows up ships by transporting photon torpedoes onto the bridge or anything. The answer for that is that we wouldn't have a TV show if they did that.

    Are there no shields in Discovery? Because shields, as a rule, prevent transporting. Though so do things like various kinds of ionization, strong energy fields, exotic materials, and every now and then a planet just being in a bad mood and not wanting visitors. Not to mention the issues with time travel, alternate universes, and the damn pattern buffers.

    Would you really want to be that ship that tried to transport a photon torpedo onto a Klingon ship but gets the torpedo's dark universe evil duplicate from the future by mistake and it takes over the Klingon empire using its power and foreknowledge, making them a more formidable foe than ever?

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    There are shields, but:
    The whole plan relied on them being down when the cloak drops. Hence you could blow them up. Makes the cloak a little less of a threat since either they're in blow up range or out of being able to blow you up.

    And of course Starfleet can't keep the ability to see the cloaked ships just like the spore drive, so they're cheating!

  • jammujammu 2020 is now. Registered User regular
    There was a transporter based prototype weapon on DS9.
    It was basically a sniper rifle that could shoot through walls by transporting a projectile in front of the victim.

    Ww8FAMg.jpg
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    But yes there is the broader question of why nobody blows up ships by transporting photon torpedoes onto the bridge or anything. The answer for that is that we wouldn't have a TV show if they did that.

    Are there no shields in Discovery? Because shields, as a rule, prevent transporting. Though so do things like various kinds of ionization, strong energy fields, exotic materials, and every now and then a planet just being in a bad mood and not wanting visitors. Not to mention the issues with time travel, alternate universes, and the damn pattern buffers.

    Would you really want to be that ship that tried to transport a photon torpedo onto a Klingon ship but gets the torpedo's dark universe evil duplicate from the future by mistake and it takes over the Klingon empire using its power and foreknowledge, making them a more formidable foe than ever?
    Just to reiterate what @Xeddicus said, clearly they're able to teleport whatever they want onto Klingon ships whenever those ships uncloak. So it's really unclear how cloaking technology helps the Klingons win any fights: if you ever uncloak that should just be a green light for the Federation to teleport a photon torpedo onto the bridge. The reason that's not how the Federation won the war five episodes ago or whatever is that it would shut down the whole show, but I'm just saying it doesn't really make sense if you bother to think about it.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    It's a narrow window, between the cloak dropping and the shields going up, and they have to be prepared for it. Usually the first confirmation a Starfleet ship gets that a cloaked ship is in the area - in any era - is a new sensor contact astern, followed by torpedoes slamming into their aft.

    To use the situation that directly inspired cloak, you might as well ask why destroyers in WW2 didn't instantly start launching depth charges in the direction of any incoming torpedoes - in theory, you have his exact distance and bearing at that instant, right? Except it doesn't quite work like that, because the "sensors" aren't actually that exact (and torpedo ranges are longer than transporter depth-charge range); plus the destroyer crew is suddenly kind of busy, and if the sub captain had any sense, he'd wait for them to not be at full combat readiness, and/or try to avoid contact with the escorts entirely and pick off the freighters they were in convoy with, then run for it. When they knew a destroyer was actively hunting for them, the smart thing was to be somewhere else - which is what they were about to do, until Burnham offered herself as a distraction to keep them from warping out.

    In short, while there are certainly tactical uses for a cloak once the engagement has already started, the main one (as the King notes below) is to be able to set an ambush, make the engagement happen at the moment of your choosing, and do as much damage with the initial strike, then attempt to break contact and reestablish cloak, either to escape or to set up another ambush (which gets a lot harder just because they know you're (probably) out there, where before they had no idea or, at best, only suspected). This should be familiar to anyone who's ever been ganked by a rogue.

    Commander Zoom on
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Cloaks help the Klingons win the war because it lets them lay ambushes.

    The Klingons attack a base with two ships. Starfleet sends two ships. When they arrive, five more Klingon ships decloak. The Starfleet ships can't lower their shields to use the transporters or they'll get blown apart by the two Klingon ships already attacking.

    They also inferior ships with cloaks against the Defiant in DS9. Two Klingon ships would engage the Defiant. One ship would cloak to maneuver while one ship would keep on the attack to prevent the Defiant from targeting the cloaking ship.

    KingofMadCows on
This discussion has been closed.