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Westworld

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Posts

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    Some questions answered tonight, only a couple more posed.
    I know William and Logan's story is technically the main plot, but I am way more fascinated by the Man in Black and the stuff he's getting up to. I'm surprised that with him coming to the park as long as he has, he apparently hasn't run into Armistice or Hector before. Is it because they're technically White Hat end game and he rolls his own brand of Black Hat?

    Also apparent confirmation that he not a sentient host given his quick exchange with the other Black Hats running with the Eschaton Gang since he runs some foundation outside of WW and this is his vacation.

    Ford is either trying to bury Arnold's Legacy or uncover it. Likely uncover since apparently Wyatt's a part of the Maze and Ford just re implemented him. The Maze might also be a path to sentience, given the conversation at the start of the episode.

    Still got me on the hook for a bit yet. Things should heat up more this next episode I expect.

    Totally agree on that last point.
    the park seems to be a game/test for the hosts as much as the guests. Or moreso. The guests just fund the real work, which is to act as an incubator for true sapient AI and test its self awareness with the maze. The initial convo plus the seeded meta info on the maze and how park staff look in their suits are pretty telling and mark deliberate design.

    Jacobkoshel_vicioSnicketysnickBucketmanOlivaw
  • Penguin IncarnatePenguin Incarnate King of Kafiristan Registered User regular
    Did I yell about how this show was about Gnosticism yet?

    BECAUSE THE SHOW IS ABOUT GNOSTICISM!

    JacobkoshEvil MultifariousAbdhyiusAresProphet
  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    It seems Bernard's conversations with Dolores may be further back in the past than we realise (unless security got her out of the park from under William and Logan's noses).

    Synths as a form of easy labour, woo boy, that's got some parallels.

    The "money-men" company is called Telos? Oh boy, that's on the nose.

    The park is so real, Guests can't tell the difference between when a Host is functioning by its programming, or by its own designs, which is very cool.

    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    Synths as a form of easy labour, woo boy, that's got some parallels.

    The "money-men" company is called Telos? Oh boy, that's on the nose.
    1. Insert Whoopi Goldberg speech here.

    2. No, "Delos", which is something from the original movie(s).

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    I'm not worried about mysteries not being answered. Creatively, this is a Jonathan Nolan show, not a Damon Lindelof show, and Person of Interest was a CBS crime procedural that was nonetheless more rigorously- and conscientiously-plotted over its run than most cable prestige dramas and which ended with a level of narrative and thematic satisfaction that's hard or borderline impossible to do if you're just winging it.

    That said, I'm not super unsympathetic to the idea that there are "too many mysteries" even if I have one hundred percent confidence that they have answers and will be paid off (which I do). I think episode 3 in particular had a bit of, as someone in D&D put it, the Game of Thrones vibe of "let's check in on every character for 2 minutes." It's possible that trying to spin too many plates at once could become an issue - but I think a side-effect of having a solid framework of plot is that there's less temptation for the storyteller to tediously spool things out in an effort to buy themselves time to figure out what happens next.

    Basically I think that, like, one or two of the mysteries Pony listed are going to be show-length ones, and a few more may take multiple seasons to play out, but others will be resolved by the end of this first season, and some of those may well be answered in the next few episodes.

    Thing is I think quite a few of these Big Mysteries are really things that have quite straightforward answers, it's just fans looking for the secret key to the show in every random bit of dialogue or backstory. Bernard's grief for his son is one reason why he especially connects to Delores, because she's basically programmed to lose her loved ones every loop. It's not about plot, it's about characterization. And he's letting her do her thing because we've seen how intrigued he is by her reactions - this is his whole field of work, he's interested in finding out what exactly will happen if he lets this play out. The Man in Black is not a secret ascended synth or Arnold or any other secret super special figure behind the history of the park, he's exactly what he says he is - a rich asshole blackhat who's been coming here for 30 years and like many a veteran player is now only interested in finding easter eggs and secrets of the game. He's not a deep dark secret, he's the ultimate symbol of the capricious cruelty that the bots are treated with.

    Kana on
    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    MatevHacksawbsjezzel_vicioTheodore FlooseveltTofystedeth
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    I'm sorry the best moment in the show happened tonight

    "Oh....upgrade!"

    phat lootz

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Shazkar ShadowstormTransporterautono-wally, erotibot300SnicketysnickTofystedeth
  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Kana wrote: »
    Bernard's grief for his son is one reason why he especially connects to Delores, because she's basically programmed to lose her loved ones every loop. It's not about plot, it's about characterization.

    this was made especially clear at the start of episode 4,
    with dolores echoing bernard's own sentiment from the previous episode that the pain of loss becomes all that is left. in an instant we see why he is there: it's almost like he heard what he dreamed and dreaded he'd hear, a response that proves a host's grief is as real as his own

    bsjezz on
    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    This show is great. I hope the mysteries never end.

    Frankly the only one I want them to solve before the series finale is
    the location of the room where Bernard and Dolores have their little chats.

    Uh....
    It doesn't exist? It's literally a dream, I think. Meaning Dolores dreams...

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    it's definitely not just a dream

    sC4Q4nq.jpg
    KanaAl_watel_vicioA Dabble Of TheloniusHacksawKaplarMetzger MeisterTheodore FlooseveltNiryaGizzyDedwrekkaOlivaw
  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    I'm not worried about mysteries not being answered. Creatively, this is a Jonathan Nolan show, not a Damon Lindelof show, and Person of Interest was a CBS crime procedural that was nonetheless more rigorously- and conscientiously-plotted over its run than most cable prestige dramas and which ended with a level of narrative and thematic satisfaction that's hard or borderline impossible to do if you're just winging it.

    That said, I'm not super unsympathetic to the idea that there are "too many mysteries" even if I have one hundred percent confidence that they have answers and will be paid off (which I do). I think episode 3 in particular had a bit of, as someone in D&D put it, the Game of Thrones vibe of "let's check in on every character for 2 minutes." It's possible that trying to spin too many plates at once could become an issue - but I think a side-effect of having a solid framework of plot is that there's less temptation for the storyteller to tediously spool things out in an effort to buy themselves time to figure out what happens next.

    Basically I think that, like, one or two of the mysteries Pony listed are going to be show-length ones, and a few more may take multiple seasons to play out, but others will be resolved by the end of this first season, and some of those may well be answered in the next few episodes.

    Thing is I think quite a few of these Big Mysteries are really things that have quite straightforward answers, it's just fans looking for the secret key to the show in every random bit of dialogue or backstory.

    This. I swear, internet theorists are the *worst*. Shrinkrays. Fucking Shrinkrays, man.

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

    Matev
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    I honestly think people see JJ Abrams has something to do with shows and then just lose their minds, forgetting that he had very very little to do with the show that they're basing their bias off of, LOST.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
    ZonugalJacobkoshHermanoHacksawel_vicioNiryaMortal SkyDedwrekka
  • MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    I honestly think people see JJ Abrams has something to do with shows and then just lose their minds, forgetting that he had very very little to do with the show that they're basing their bias off of, LOST.

    what if we're basing our bias off the movies JJ Abrams has directed, like Super 8 or the bad star treks

    l3icwZV.png
    Medium Dave
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited October 2016
    Machwing wrote: »
    I honestly think people see JJ Abrams has something to do with shows and then just lose their minds, forgetting that he had very very little to do with the show that they're basing their bias off of, LOST.

    what if we're basing our bias off the movies JJ Abrams has directed, like Super 8 or the bad star treks

    Then I'll let you know that you're seeing double cause there was one bad star trek, and then also remind you that as an executive producer Abrams has little control over the plot as well as pointing you to persons of interest, a show with a really well done sci-fi plot over time which was helmed by one of the main forces (writing, directing) behind Westworld, Johnathan Nolan.

    My point wasn't that Abrams is great, it was that he doesn't have much to do with this show, just like lost. So it's strange to expect overly complex bullshit in this show instead of tightly plotted plotlines.

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
    Zonugal
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    what does directing a movie have to do with executive producing a TV show

    rRwz9.gif
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I can almost guarantee you the extent of JJ Abrams' involvement in this show was "convincing HBO to give them a lot of money to make it and high profile actors to be in it"

    6F32U1X.png
    Death of RatsJacobkoshKanaHermanoCommander Zoomel_vicioKwoaruSnicketysnickNiryaBlankZoeMortal SkyDedwrekkaOlivaw
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Abrams was also executive producer on person of interest, the latest star trek, all the latest Mission Impossible movies, and 11.22.63. He has a great track record when it comes to producing. He knows talent when he sees it and also know how to attract them to projects.

    No I don't.
    JacobkoshKanaCommander ZoomA Dabble Of TheloniusNirya
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    bsjezz wrote: »
    it's definitely not just a dream
    a dream would be "not just a dream", anyways as hosts are not supposed to dream.

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Also I'd like to point our that the other HBO show that LOST-alum Damon Lindelof is currently running, The Leftovers, is the best goddamn show on the network right now.

    Devlin_DragonusadejaanMedium DaveNirya
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Latest episode spoiler

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
    A Dabble Of Thelonius101vegeta_666BillyIdleZonugalHacksawSnicketysnick
  • KaplarKaplar On Google MapsRegistered User regular
    Kill. All. Robits.

    Shazkar Shadowstorm
  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    oh boy oh boy

    poo
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular

    Very interested in hearing from more game developers about the show

    6F32U1X.png
    Commander ZoomZonugalautono-wally, erotibot300MatevMortal SkyOlivaw
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I.... wait
    Hold on
    Episode 5
    are there two Lawrences then?

  • AtomicTofuAtomicTofu She's a straight-up supervillain, yo Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    I.... wait
    Hold on
    Episode 5
    are there two Lawrences then?
    Or confirmation of two time periods

    BlankZoeCantideBucketmanSnicketysnick
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    I.... wait
    Hold on
    Episode 5
    are there two Lawrences then?
    1473668044-433.png

    LegacyJacobkoshautono-wally, erotibot300el_vicioBucketmanTofystedethDedwrekka
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    I.... wait
    Hold on
    Episode 5
    are there two Lawrences then?
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if there were multiple instances of Hosts, like a questgiver NPC and a companion NPC.

    rRwz9.gif
    KanaBlankZoe
  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    I.... wait
    Hold on
    Episode 5
    are there two Lawrences then?
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if there were multiple instances of Hosts, like a questgiver NPC and a companion NPC.

    Lawrence
    Well with timeline as shown, the meeting with Lawrence was the day after he got used as a blood bank. So he could have just been cleaned and reset overnight, seeing as the park seems to have near infinite resources to manage npc logistics.

    Steam ID
    PSN: Robo_Wizard1
    Devlin_DragonusJacobkoshEtiowsaZonugalShazkar ShadowstormTheodore FlooseveltNiryaKaplarTransporterMatevBlankZoeBucketmanSnicketysnickJayKaosTofystedethDedwrekka
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    To be fair it'd be pretty easy to get Lawrence back up and running compared to the normal level of damage they dish out to hosts. Just fill him back up with blood, patch up his neck, and send him back out.

    I guess there's basically two possibilities.
    Possibility A: his normal storyline starts out as a dude to rescue from execution, which is then your hook to have him bring you back to his homebase, give you some more quests, etc. The MiB got dibs on early storyline Lawrence, but since he was done with him they just patched Lawrence up and moved him on to where he otherwise would've been in his storyline. That way now if someone else wants a crack at his later-in-the-play-session content it's not just wasted.

    Alternately, there's a starting zone Lawrence off in Sweetwater, and then there's a Faction Boss/ Questgiver Lawrence way off in zone N-17. They're basically the same character, just re-used in different circumstances, and the cheat doesn't matter because the questlines never cross. The Lawrences had different clothes, whereas normally the hosts always keep the same outfit, even Hector in prison still had his silly leather cavalryman getup. And perhaps Dolores' vision of herself in the parade was actually real, and there's another Dolores model in town doing her own little storyline. Maybe they were just behind schedule when they made the town and it's got some shortcuts in character writing :)

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Commander ZoomJacobkoshShazkar ShadowstormBucketmanSnicketysnickDedwrekka
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    Boy this show is really starting to lose me

    I think I might be better off waiting til the season is over so I can sprint through it and ignore the bad parts

    The bad parts are "any time anybody is talking casually oh my god how are you so bad at writing natural dialogue, TV show"

    6F32U1X.png
  • HermanoHermano Registered User regular
    edited November 2016

    @Kana could you put all that in a spoiler please

    Hermano on

    PSN- AHermano
  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    I actually came around a lot on the show this ep

    reading some thoughts here helped me somewhat, and the latest ep helped with my expectations from characters (the MiB in particular)

    reframing some of these actions as simply actions taken by people and not mystery seeds helped me start enjoying this a lot more, though I'm still kind of struggling with actually liking any of the characters or caring about them, which ain't great

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Did I yell about how this show was about Gnosticism yet?

    BECAUSE THE SHOW IS ABOUT GNOSTICISM!

    I had similar thoughts in other thread:
    what is kind of cool about this show is that it is leaning heavily into the recent tendency for gnostic interpretations of the wild west, most notably blood meridian

    while the gnostics did not really exist as a coherent group, there are a few things that are generally taken as core to a gnostic worldview;

    the physical world is a falsity constructed by a possibly cruel but certainly false being, known as a demiurge (sometimes a feminine principle, the archon sophia, but there is no universality here). the experience of humanity is fundamentally alienating; trapped in a world of material, only through personal gnosis (knowledge/understanding, usually of a revelatory nature) can the spark of divinity trapped inside man make its way back to the "true god", or divine principle. sometimes you have the figure of the "redeemed redeemer" (christ, occasionally).

    in westworld you have a cruel and indifferent artificer (ford), constructing a false material world. even the natural element in westworld is artificial; the snakes, the horses, etc. the ground itself is hacked into shape by vast machines. the hosts are trapped in an alienating reality in which they are manipulated; but through temporary bursts of understanding (seeing the drawings, witnessing the actions of the agents of the creator - our masked men in this case being standins for various forms of angel) can begin to understand the truth of the place they are trapped in. the freeing principle here is literally knowledge acquired through bizarre hallucinatory visions. the naked corpses piled up indifferently cannot help but echo the various images of the final judgement and doom paintings

    to go a step further, we have the distant "True" creator; arnold. it is his spark which imbues the hosts with the potential for sentience and, perhaps, true understanding.

    the setup in westworld is also especially fun because the world is constructed in such a way it explains away its own faults. the iconography of the agents of the company is built into the indian religious practice; the outside the park experiences deliberately contextualised as dreams, other hosts programmed to ignore and evade your questions. great fun, and i hope they lean into it harder as they go on

    surrealitycheck on
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    HacksawBear_thescond
  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Neat episode with, again, stuff that bothered me. Mostly Logan. Who is a cartoon and a ham. A cartoony ham!
    I hope that he
    is the inevitable (season finale?) first human brutally murdered by a robit

    Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins are still my faves, probably because you could hand them some shitty lines and they'll still shine.
    I really do wish the writing was less uneven though

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

    Commander ZoomMatevBucketmanOlivaw
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Neat episode with, again, stuff that bothered me. Mostly Logan. Who is a cartoon and a ham. A cartoony ham!
    I hope that he
    is the inevitable (season finale?) first human brutally murdered by a robit

    Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins are still my faves, probably because you could hand them some shitty lines and they'll still shine.
    I really do wish the writing was less uneven though
    My guess is that Billy is the first to get robo-killed. I think they are building him up as sympathetic for that exact purpose.

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited November 2016
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Neat episode with, again, stuff that bothered me. Mostly Logan. Who is a cartoon and a ham. A cartoony ham!
    I hope that he
    is the inevitable (season finale?) first human brutally murdered by a robit

    Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins are still my faves, probably because you could hand them some shitty lines and they'll still shine.
    I really do wish the writing was less uneven though

    Harris and Hopkins are master-level scenery chewers. They don't get their food from the craft services table: they break off small pieces of the sets and snack on them between takes.

    Hacksaw on
    el_vicioDevlin_DragonusCommander ZoomMatevZonugalBlankZoeBucketmanSnicketysnickTofystedethOlivaw
  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Neat episode with, again, stuff that bothered me. Mostly Logan. Who is a cartoon and a ham. A cartoony ham!
    I hope that he
    is the inevitable (season finale?) first human brutally murdered by a robit

    Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins are still my faves, probably because you could hand them some shitty lines and they'll still shine.
    I really do wish the writing was less uneven though
    My guess is that Billy is the first to get robo-killed. I think they are building him up as sympathetic for that exact purpose.

    See I thought about that and
    it would be the dumbest thing to go "yeah it's GoT in the future, cool eh?" so I hope that Logan bites it, and Billy carries on with Dolores for at least another season.
    That's the other thing, they planned what, 5 seasons? Logan does not have enough to him to last more than this season imo. Fuck him.

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    el_vicio wrote: »
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Neat episode with, again, stuff that bothered me. Mostly Logan. Who is a cartoon and a ham. A cartoony ham!
    I hope that he
    is the inevitable (season finale?) first human brutally murdered by a robit

    Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins are still my faves, probably because you could hand them some shitty lines and they'll still shine.
    I really do wish the writing was less uneven though
    My guess is that Billy is the first to get robo-killed. I think they are building him up as sympathetic for that exact purpose.

    See I thought about that and
    it would be the dumbest thing to go "yeah it's GoT in the future, cool eh?" so I hope that Logan bites it, and Billy carries on with Dolores for at least another season.
    That's the other thing, they planned what, 5 seasons? Logan does not have enough to him to last more than this season imo. Fuck him.
    Logan's callous disregard for careful planning and incredible lack of foresight will be his downfall. My guess is he'll bite it in a way that parallels the movie: him and Billy walking down the main street of Tutorial Town and Logan gets popped by whoever the show's equivalent of Yul Brynner's character turns out to be.

    Devlin_DragonusMatevel_vicio
  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    el_vicio wrote: »
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Neat episode with, again, stuff that bothered me. Mostly Logan. Who is a cartoon and a ham. A cartoony ham!
    I hope that he
    is the inevitable (season finale?) first human brutally murdered by a robit

    Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins are still my faves, probably because you could hand them some shitty lines and they'll still shine.
    I really do wish the writing was less uneven though
    My guess is that Billy is the first to get robo-killed. I think they are building him up as sympathetic for that exact purpose.

    See I thought about that and
    it would be the dumbest thing to go "yeah it's GoT in the future, cool eh?" so I hope that Logan bites it, and Billy carries on with Dolores for at least another season.
    That's the other thing, they planned what, 5 seasons? Logan does not have enough to him to last more than this season imo. Fuck him.
    Logan's callous disregard for careful planning and incredible lack of foresight will be his downfall. My guess is he'll bite it in a way that parallels the movie: him and Billy walking down the main street of Tutorial Town and Logan gets popped by whoever the show's equivalent of Yul Brynner's character turns out to be.
    It's Delores. Logan's gonna try and force himself on Delores and she's gonna burn him down. Either that or she's gonna shoot MiB to save Teddy. Like, this season is all about Delores and Maeve's journeys to sentience, taking 2 very different paths for it.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    I really, really liked this episode

    Strongest since the pilot for me
    It helps that I really like Lawrence and was bummed they killed him only to have him pop right back up

    Revealing the the rogue woodsmen was because of, seemingly, corporate espionage and that The MiB is the rich investor responsible for saving the park and that he views himself as the real villain of this world since Ford could never make an appropriately challenging one are just enough answered questions to help aleviate some of the TOO MANY SPINNING PLATES problem and Dolores getting her big first badass moment was great great great

    Also they're starting to really drop a lot of interesting enough teases of what the outside culture is like

    MiB says it is like a Star Trek utopia but judging from Logan and the little exchange between the butcher boys about how Mitch (i think it was Mitch?) would always be a butcher and would never get a promotion ever it points to it being a little more corporate dystopia than that

    BlankZoe on
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    ElderlycrawfishMatevTheodore FlooseveltSnicketysnickDevlin_DragonusShazkar ShadowstormJayKaosTofystedeth
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    There is a theory about Westworld that has been gaining steam lately, especially after the last episode.

    Possible future spoilers if it pans out I guess:
    The theory states that William & Logan are not visiting the park at the same time as the Man in Black. They are actually visiting it decades earlier. Some even go as far to say that William is the Man in Black.

    Apparently there are two versions of the Westworld logo. One is seen everywhere, while the other is only seen in two places: Ford's flashback that shows the young Anthony Hopkins working on prototypes, and the scene when William first arrives at the park and is getting his outfit and such. This could mean that the rarer logo was the original logo used back in the early years, and the new one is the "modern" one that they switched to. There was also apparently a tweet from someone working on the show that said something about the logo design being important.

    Additionally, none of the corporate people that work on the park have been shown interacting with or acknowledging William & Logan (while Ford directly meets with the Man in Black and there have been several instances of personnel commenting on Man in Black--such as that scene where they approve his explosives and such).

    Logan also tells William about the death of the original partner and that it sent the park into a financial freefall (sounding like a semi-recent event), and that they are planning on buying it out while it's cheaper to do so. Meanwhile, the Man in Black says that the partner died 35 years ago and almost took the park with him if it wasn't for the Man in Black saving it somehow (perhaps by buying it out?).

    It would also explain how Lawrence showed up as two different characters in what appeared to be a relatively short time (plus Man in Black's familiarity with Lawrence if you believe William=MiB). The only other explanations are that they repaired and recast him overnight or that there are multiple Lawrence models.

    Delores seems to be the big hang-up, as it implies that she stumbled upon William & Logan after saving herself from the massacre at her ranch (which happened in what is presumed to be the "present" with MiB where Teddy wasn't there because he'd been recast and was off hunting Wyatt). However, this could also be clever editing to make the audience think that was the order of events.

    At some point, Teddy is told that he exists to keep Delores from wandering, so that guests can find her if they want to kill Teddy and take his girl. It's also notable that William and Logan have never shared a scene with Teddy, opening up the possibility that he actually may not even exist yet (or is cast in a different part elsewhere) and that he was later on created/recast to keep Delores in her loop as a result of what happens when she leaves with William (up until Ford decides to recast Teddy).

    Overall, I don't know if I believe the theory. Having an unnamed character like MiB is going to lead people into looking into who he might be, and that can often get out of hand. There are a lot of coincidences if it's not true though. We're halfway through the season, so you'd think that if the writers weren't intentionally doing it, William & Logan would have interacted with a character (or version of a character in the case of the hosts) from MiB's scenes, if not MiB himself. Instead, only Delores creates some uncertainty and we have things like Lawrence that actually might reinforce it.

    On the flipside, it makes it a lot harder to get a hold on Delores' character arc, and it would severely undercut her "No longer a damsel" line if something is going to happen to her to force her back into the damsel role for another few decades.

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