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By the Mystic Moons of the MCU, I conjure [Doctor Strange]!

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    I saw this in 2D and loved it. I'm pretty sure that 3D would have broken my brain.
    What I really liked was how tight the script was. It was like a machine, all the bits and pieces working together to build the story. Beats came along as expected and were given enough time to breathe, but not so much that they became stale. Impressively efficient. Like the intro of Strange. Bam, bam, bam, they quickly (but not rushed or anything) establish his job, personality, skill, name, and the fact he's played by Sherlock. Hell, they make this whole superhero tent pole movie thing look easy.

    I bet the Marvel screenwriters rent BvS every weekend and laugh their asses off at the clumsy half-assedness of it.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    I can't agree that things were given time to breathe. I liked the movie but it felt like they were constantly anxiously checking their watches, trying to blow through their bullet point list of plot beats as fast as they possibly could.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    This wrote: »
    I can't agree that things were given time to breathe. I liked the movie but it felt like they were constantly anxiously checking their watches, trying to blow through their bullet point list of plot beats as fast as they possibly could.

    Literally

  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Tamin wrote: »
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    I saw this. It was.... ok.

    It was visually pretty spectacular and I thought they really nailed magical combat in a way that garbage like Harry Potter and even The Two Towers did not. The opening sequence in particular. I also found the scene where Strange meets the main antagonist to be hilarious and loved the running joke it caused, that was great.

    But the plot and so forth was extraordinarily anemic and I found it a shallow climax. It needed more time, more development, more of Strange showing that despite his initial missteps he was an apt pupil. it would have worked much better as a mini series or something of that nature.

    It might be my favourite despite all that.

    going from "ok" to "favorite" lands a bit off-target to me

    I don't recall your opinions on the other mcu films.

    Were they that much below par?
    Or have they all been 'fine', but this one is a solid 7.8 while everything else runs from 7 to 7.79? (insert however many significant digits as you'd like)

    I don't think any of the Marvel movies except Iron Man 1 and Cap 1 were up to snuff, and the former had issues.

    I forgot Guardians of the Galaxy, that is my favourite favourite.

    Apothe0sis on
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Cap 2 and Avengers 1 don't get a mention? Cap 1 was decent but was by no means one of the best Marvel movies, in my opinion...

  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    I think Cap 1 is my favorite of phase 1. Love that pulp and the song, oh my god the song.

    Iron Man 1 feels so far away compared to the other Marvel moves now adays. Not in quality but in specifc tone and style.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Cap 1 is one half of a decent movie and than the second part feels like they remember that they have to cram all that other stuf into the runtime, too.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Iron Man 1's differences makes sense in a way. Iron Man 1 took place in a world that had only ever publicly known one superhero, and he was presumed dead for seventy years. The government hadn't had time to wrap its head around the idea of a private citizen with a doomsday arsenal, and until the end Iron Man hadn't even met serious resistance in any form.

    By Iron Man 2, the world had seen two giant green rage monsters in full rampage mode, they had time to digest the collateral damage of Iron Man (in the long run, we always lose sight of hypothetical lives saved in the face of actual lives lost), and the government had plenty of time to watch the entire world try to create Iron Man knockoffs. And even then, the Iron Man 1 tone didn't really die until Whiplash showed up and put the lie to Stark's "Nobody'll even be close for ten years," defense. And within a few months from there, Earth made first contact with three separate alien species, only one of which proved friendly, while another launched a full-on invasion of a major city led by a member of the third.

    And since then, the world's already seen another hostile alien species, the robot apocalypse, the intelligence community going rogue against civilians, the UN terrorist attack, the Avengers consuming themselves with infighting, and now the world just found out that wizards are real and can destroy and rebuild cities in minutes. When the real world sees two paradigm shifts in the same generation, we've said the world has gone insane with change. The MCU has seen about eight of them and Iron Man hasn't even seen his tenth anniversary yet.

    Hevach on
  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    Cap 2 and Avengers 1 don't get a mention? Cap 1 was decent but was by no means one of the best Marvel movies, in my opinion...
    I think both of those were garbage, Avengers in particular.

  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Cap 2 and Avengers 1 don't get a mention? Cap 1 was decent but was by no means one of the best Marvel movies, in my opinion...
    I think both of those were garbage, Avengers in particular.

    You liked Cap 1 but thought Cap 2 was garbage?

    I... all I can do is squint at the screen in confusion

  • WarcryWarcry I'm getting my shit pushed in here! AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Cap 2 is my absolute favorite Marvel movie. It's actually close to being utterly perfect in my eyes.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Cap 2 is a good movie that is also quite dissapointing in how much better it could've been if it wasn't influenced as much by the MCU screenwriting playbook.

  • WarcryWarcry I'm getting my shit pushed in here! AustraliaRegistered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Cap 2 is a good movie that is also quite dissapointing in how much better it could've been if it wasn't influenced as much by the MCU screenwriting playbook.

    In terms of formula, Cap 2 is the most deviant of the Marvel movies. It's also a movie that would be impossible to seriously execute without having the background of a previously established setting. If it had come out by itself, the suspension of disbelief required for the plot would have been immense.

  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    So some speculation on the first ending stinger:
    It seems like Odin may be trapped in a mirror dimension somewhere, as the Mirror dimension is mentioned as a type of prison but they never actually do anything further with the idea.

    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    So some speculation on the first ending stinger:
    It seems like Odin may be trapped in a mirror dimension somewhere, as the Mirror dimension is mentioned as a type of prison but they never actually do anything further with the idea.

    Nah.
    Loki still has Odin stashed under the castle in Odinsleep somewhere. Strange was actually talking to Loki in disguise, not Thor (remember that Thor thinks that Loki is dead; why would he be looking for him on earth?). Loki is following a lead on the Time Gem for Thanos... Strange timebending repeatedly was probably a giant red flag for Thanos, as one of the few beings in the multiverse who might notice temporal loops.

  • jefe414jefe414 "My Other Drill Hole is a Teleporter" Mechagodzilla is Best GodzillaRegistered User regular
    Never even thought about that. Your analysis makes perfect sense.

    Xbox Live: Jefe414
  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    So some speculation on the first ending stinger:
    It seems like Odin may be trapped in a mirror dimension somewhere, as the Mirror dimension is mentioned as a type of prison but they never actually do anything further with the idea.

    Nah.
    Loki still has Odin stashed under the castle in Odinsleep somewhere. Strange was actually talking to Loki in disguise, not Thor (remember that Thor thinks that Loki is dead; why would he be looking for him on earth?). Loki is following a lead on the Time Gem for Thanos... Strange timebending repeatedly was probably a giant red flag for Thanos, as one of the few beings in the multiverse who might notice temporal loops.

    Alternative theory for Thor that involves Age of Ultron / Dark World spoilers:
    Thor discovered Loki's treachery through entering the well of knowledge, which gave him insight into the Mind Stone and helped him create Vision.

    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    So some speculation on the first ending stinger:
    It seems like Odin may be trapped in a mirror dimension somewhere, as the Mirror dimension is mentioned as a type of prison but they never actually do anything further with the idea.

    Nah.
    Loki still has Odin stashed under the castle in Odinsleep somewhere. Strange was actually talking to Loki in disguise, not Thor (remember that Thor thinks that Loki is dead; why would he be looking for him on earth?). Loki is following a lead on the Time Gem for Thanos... Strange timebending repeatedly was probably a giant red flag for Thanos, as one of the few beings in the multiverse who might notice temporal loops.

    Definitely not.
    Thor and Loki are definitely both going to be looking for Odin in Ragnarok. My guess is that what we didn't see between Loki and Odin was either Odin telling him "Fine, if you think you can be king, then see if you can take my place without anyone telling the difference." and then Odin fucks off to Earth while Loki tries to pass this test OR Loki banishes Odin to Earth, which I would find less interesting.

    Viskod on
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    I really liked this movie a lot! The ending, as others mentioned, was one I did not see coming but it was so fitting for the character that was built.

    The fight scenes did very little for me, though. Maybe they were too close in, or maybe it was the weird clear weapons, but a lot of it was very hard to follow.

  • MuddypawsMuddypaws Lactodorum, UKRegistered User regular
    The fight scenes were exactly as I imagined a cinema version of Mass Effect biotic combat would look.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    I enjoyed the film while watching it, and yes, the visuals are inventive - but I agree with Apothe0sis' assessment of the movie. I realised at the end that I'm not really looking forward to seeing any of these characters again. Mordo, perhaps, but that's mainly because of the actor. The only character I found myself caring about was the Ancient One; Stephen Strange himself, in comparison, felt like a Tony Stark knock-off, and where Stark felt like a living, breathing character from the first, Strange was serviceable but remained pretty flat, as did the side characters. He has potential, especially once you put him together with more established characters, but as it is I found Doctor Strange visually appealing and undoubtedly entertaining but also pretty forgettable.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User, Transition Team regular
    That's the one criticism I suppose I could level at it. I want to see 6 more Iron Man movies, but I'm not like YASS DR STRANGE FOREVAR

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Thirith wrote: »
    I enjoyed the film while watching it, and yes, the visuals are inventive - but I agree with Apothe0sis' assessment of the movie. I realised at the end that I'm not really looking forward to seeing any of these characters again. Mordo, perhaps, but that's mainly because of the actor. The only character I found myself caring about was the Ancient One; Stephen Strange himself, in comparison, felt like a Tony Stark knock-off, and where Stark felt like a living, breathing character from the first, Strange was serviceable but remained pretty flat, as did the side characters. He has potential, especially once you put him together with more established characters, but as it is I found Doctor Strange visually appealing and undoubtedly entertaining but also pretty forgettable.

    I kinda wish that Wong was the main character. A grumpy librarian is a lot more entertaining to me than "surgeon who plays god and gets his comeuppance. but not really."

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    I agree that Strange isn't a terribly interesting type, especially since he's not all that different from a character that already exists in the MCU. (I could imagine some nice story potential resulting from the two interacting.) However, even with that in mind the film could've done more than it did. Wong would make for a different, fun protagonist, but he was one-note and thin too.

    I'm not sure whether Tony Stark in the first Iron Man movie was written more interestingly or whether RDJ was just better able to fill the gaps in the character. Really the only actors in Stephen Strange that exceeded their material were Tilda Swinton and perhaps Chiwetel Ejiofor, who brings an effective understated pathos to so many of his performances.

    Come to think of it, though, I really liked Mads Mikkelsen and what he did with his part. He was underwritten like 95% of all MCU villains, but his performance had this underplayed, matter-of-fact thing going that worked much better for me than the villains in, say, Thor 2 or Guardians of the Galaxy.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    Mikkelsen was definitely the highlight for me

  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    To be fair, Tony Stark is a far more interesting character in the comics too.
    Dr Strange always works well as a supporting character, but kind of boring as a main character (to me anyway)

  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    Strange's similarities to Tony Stark felt like a deliberate attempt to make a character who could replace Stark in the ensemble once RDJ hangs up his rocket boots.

    ACsTqqK.jpg
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    Cumberbatch'll have to do a lot of growing to fill those rocket boots. Seriously, though, I think they'd be silly to replace Stark with ersatz Stark, since that would just highlight that Strange is no Iron Man, although that doesn't mean they wouldn't do it.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    It's possible they'll change his attitude to be a bit more serious/otherwise different from Stark now that he's done all this.

  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    It could also be that IM1 had pretty much no script, so the MCU Iron Man is largely built off RDJ's pure charisma and ability to ad-lib any given scene.
    I don't think Benidict has that ability (in the same way RDJ does) so that would lead to a much more genuine character in Stark than it would in Strange.

    Plus, RDJ has said he never really does whats in the script anyway.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    RDJ also has an intensity that's not at all there with Cumberbatch, and that intensity fills the screen and pretty much every scene he's in, at least in the Marvel films. I like a few of the other characters a lot, but RDJ is very much the MCU MVP, DYT?

    Edit: I guess one thing I didn't get from Strange was an actual motivation, once we get past the "Must heal my hands!" thing. He doesn't seem to have much of a reason to get involved, other than he's the protagonist and someone has to. The Ancient One's
    death
    also doesn't seem to do much to drive him. Strange's very much a character in need of a motivation - even if it's a general one. Tony's constant need to be the best, the smartest, the one who comes up with a solution - Stark's permanent dick-waving has served the character and the stories pretty well.

    Thirith on
    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Saw it last week, loved it.

    My biggest criticism is that the story covers years of Strange's life, yet it doesn't feel at all like years have passed. As a result, his character growth feels rushed and unnatural. He has a long and desperate life-changing journey, but it feels like he just turned his life around in a few days.

    The most striking example of that is when Palmer visits him in his apartment to bring him groceries and they have their final fight. He's still living in his luxurious downtown-London skyscraper apartment, with an expansive piano and all his possessions. Palmer does mention Strange is quickly spending money, but from the shot we're given he clearly has money to spare. Two scenes later, literally minutes for us, he's in Tibet and tells his attackers his watch is "all he has left". My first though hearing that was that he meant "all he has left on his person at this exact moment, because WTF he has a ton of luxurious shit in London worth a fortune." It was only long after the movie that it finally dawned on me that he had bankrupted himself looking for a treatment and that he had literally spent his last time on this long-shot chance. The movie did not make that clear -- even something as simple as having Strange recovering and skyping doctors and fighting with Palmer from increasingly spartan and low-rent apartments would have been a great visual cue to what's really happening.

    sig.gif
  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    There was definitely a montage where you see his apartment getting sparser and sparser. Pretty sure at one point there was nothing but a table and chair.

    Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    There was definitely a montage where you see his apartment getting sparser and sparser. Pretty sure at one point there was nothing but a table and chair.

    Yep. i remember that. Its what drove the idea home he was spending everything

  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    Also; isn't his luxurious apartment in New York?

    Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Saw it last week, loved it.

    My biggest criticism is that the story covers years of Strange's life, yet it doesn't feel at all like years have passed. As a result, his character growth feels rushed and unnatural. He has a long and desperate life-changing journey, but it feels like he just turned his life around in a few days.

    The most striking example of that is when Palmer visits him in his apartment to bring him groceries and they have their final fight. He's still living in his luxurious downtown-London skyscraper apartment, with an expansive piano and all his possessions. Palmer does mention Strange is quickly spending money, but from the shot we're given he clearly has money to spare. Two scenes later, literally minutes for us, he's in Tibet and tells his attackers his watch is "all he has left". My first though hearing that was that he meant "all he has left on his person at this exact moment, because WTF he has a ton of luxurious shit in London worth a fortune." It was only long after the movie that it finally dawned on me that he had bankrupted himself looking for a treatment and that he had literally spent his last time on this long-shot chance. The movie did not make that clear -- even something as simple as having Strange recovering and skyping doctors and fighting with Palmer from increasingly spartan and low-rent apartments would have been a great visual cue to what's really happening.

    Palmer explicitly explains this:
    "You always spent money as fast as it came in, but now you are spending money you dont even have"

    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Saw this the other night finally, I liked the visuals but the city bending shit got old real quick. I felt most of the jokes were forced and fell flat. It was also pretty damn boring. I liked the first half of the film to him up to him being shown whats out there.. after that I think the film was rather dull. I did like the ending.

    How long is the period of time from the accident and when the final battle happens.. the way it is portrayed it doesn't seem long at all as Richy mentioned earlier.

    When does the story take place in the Marvel time line? There is a line that could be taken two ways
    When Strange is looking at who to work on next one of the candidates is Military (rank might have been mentioned) who has a spinal injury due to experimental armor, was that a reference to Brody... Or are we going all the way back to Iron Man 2 and the reference to the North Korean armor that twisted its torso 180. I am thinking it is the latter. I don't think Strange would be so glib about chakras etc if he had saw the news about Thor, Scarlet Witch or Aliens or evil robots, the fact that none of that was mentioned makes me think this was set shortly after Iron Man 2

    I think this was one of the weaker Marvel films, it was the standard template for the marvel origin film and I am getting sick of that, for such a weird comic series they really played it safe and I think the film suffered for it.

    darkmayo on
    Switch SW-6182-1526-0041
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Saw it last week, loved it.

    My biggest criticism is that the story covers years of Strange's life, yet it doesn't feel at all like years have passed. As a result, his character growth feels rushed and unnatural. He has a long and desperate life-changing journey, but it feels like he just turned his life around in a few days.

    The most striking example of that is when Palmer visits him in his apartment to bring him groceries and they have their final fight. He's still living in his luxurious downtown-London skyscraper apartment, with an expansive piano and all his possessions. Palmer does mention Strange is quickly spending money, but from the shot we're given he clearly has money to spare. Two scenes later, literally minutes for us, he's in Tibet and tells his attackers his watch is "all he has left". My first though hearing that was that he meant "all he has left on his person at this exact moment, because WTF he has a ton of luxurious shit in London worth a fortune." It was only long after the movie that it finally dawned on me that he had bankrupted himself looking for a treatment and that he had literally spent his last time on this long-shot chance. The movie did not make that clear -- even something as simple as having Strange recovering and skyping doctors and fighting with Palmer from increasingly spartan and low-rent apartments would have been a great visual cue to what's really happening.

    Palmer explicitly explains this:
    "You always spent money as fast as it came in, but now you are spending money you dont even have"

    Yeah I mentioned that. She does say that line to Strange. While standing in his luxurious skyscraper apartment, next to his grand piano. It kinda deflated the "money you don't have" part of her argument. He looked like a man with plenty of money to me.

    sig.gif
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    darkmayo wrote: »
    Saw this the other night finally, I liked the visuals but the city bending shit got old real quick. I felt most of the jokes were forced and fell flat. It was also pretty damn boring. I liked the first half of the film to him up to him being shown whats out there.. after that I think the film was rather dull. I did like the ending.

    How long is the period of time from the accident and when the final battle happens.. the way it is portrayed it doesn't seem long at all as Richy mentioned earlier.

    When does the story take place in the Marvel time line? There is a line that could be taken two ways
    When Strange is looking at who to work on next one of the candidates is Military (rank might have been mentioned) who has a spinal injury due to experimental armor, was that a reference to Brody... Or are we going all the way back to Iron Man 2 and the reference to the North Korean armor that twisted its torso 180. I am thinking it is the latter. I don't think Strange would be so glib about chakras etc if he had saw the news about Thor, Scarlet Witch or Aliens or evil robots, the fact that none of that was mentioned makes me think this was set shortly after Iron Man 2

    I think this was one of the weaker Marvel films, it was the standard template for the marvel origin film and I am getting sick of that, for such a weird comic series they really played it safe and I think the film suffered for it.

    Apparently in the battle against the bad guys in NYC you can see the Avengers tower. Which means the ending of the movie at least is before Age of Ultron, and therefore spinal injury guy from the beginning cannot possibly be War Machine from Civil War.

    But yeah, the events of Civil War were my first thought when I heard that line, too.

    sig.gif
  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    According to the director that line is not a reference to anything else in the MCU. Just a coincidence.

    ACsTqqK.jpg
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