How dare you suggest racism was not the deciding factor for Trump voters?
If you're saying that EVERY Trump voter voted for racism then yes. I dare. Because that makes you just as out of touch as the Clinton campaign and why we're in this mess.
You're talking about racist somehow being the deciding factor here. Point to any result that suggests this. All these racists flipped these battleground states? Are you serious? She was a weak fucking candidate who had a barely hidden disdain for the primary process and her ascension to the Presidency. And now they're hand wringing as if they can't believe what's happened here. Really?
Trump's entire platform was racism and bigotry.
Whatever, I'm done with this fucking argument. Fine. Clinton lost ONLY fucking because racists just got sooper dooper excited about voting against the candidate endorsed by the Black Guy (one wonders why they didn't do this in 2012). Whatever.
It's kinda hard to actually have a conversation here if you won't actually tell us what you think the real reason is. Tell us what you think caused it.
There are a myriad of issues; blame the awful summer that Clinton had. As odious as Trump has been, why people are discounting the disenfranchisement and dejection that young millennial voters experienced after the DNC and Wikileaks and just going to "welp they have the blacks" is just beyond me. Folks are just doing anything they can to just pat themselves on the back and say "Well you can only lead a horse to water. . ." instead of saying "Well hell maybe we shouldn't have ignored a large segment of the population because well they just aren't smart enough to know better." You are seeing it right here in this thread.
So the Democrats should have been more racist or something? That's your diagnose of Clinton's performance?
I mean, it's not like they didn't go out and try to court white voters. They had people all over that shit at all sorts of types (from Biden to Sanders as an example).
Like, fundamentally, what do you think was the thing they should have said or done that would reach out to these people you are talking about? What was Clinton's campaign not giving them?
My take on how this happened: Democrats played identity politics targeting everyone but the majority of white voters which in turn alienated them. Trump then energized those white voters who felt like they were being pushed to the wayside and forgotten. They voted to be represented.
I don't think it was just racist, sexist people that won this election for the Republicans. The thin margin that Clinton will lose by is because the Democratic party didn't convince white voters that the party was willing to fight for their well-being as much as they are clearly fighting for minorities and special interest groups. They need a plan to bring the non-racist, non-sexist, struggling, working class white voters back to the Democratic Party.
I would like to remind you that Clinton will have received more votes
Yeah
Which sadly means nothing in the US election process
Hillary lost PA, MI, and WI most likely due to a surge in the white working class in those states.
Looks like Scott Adams is right, facts don't matter, only persuasion. He said that this election would prove that facts don't matter, and that Donald Trump would win due to superior persuasion.
This has been an exciting election. Looks like the next few years are going to entertaining.
How dare you suggest racism was not the deciding factor for Trump voters?
If you're saying that EVERY Trump voter voted for racism then yes. I dare. Because that makes you just as out of touch as the Clinton campaign and why we're in this mess.
You're talking about racist somehow being the deciding factor here. Point to any result that suggests this. All these racists flipped these battleground states? Are you serious? She was a weak fucking candidate who had a barely hidden disdain for the primary process and her ascension to the Presidency. And now they're hand wringing as if they can't believe what's happened here. Really?
Trump's entire platform was racism and bigotry.
Whatever, I'm done with this fucking argument. Fine. Clinton lost ONLY fucking because racists just got sooper dooper excited about voting against the candidate endorsed by the Black Guy (one wonders why they didn't do this in 2012). Whatever.
It's kinda hard to actually have a conversation here if you won't actually tell us what you think the real reason is. Tell us what you think caused it.
There are a myriad of issues; blame the awful summer that Clinton had. As odious as Trump has been, why people are discounting the disenfranchisement and dejection that young millennial voters experienced after the DNC and Wikileaks and just going to "welp they have the blacks" is just beyond me. Folks are just doing anything they can to just pat themselves on the back and say "Well you can only lead a horse to water. . ." instead of saying "Well hell maybe we shouldn't have ignored a large segment of the population because well they just aren't smart enough to know better." You are seeing it right here in this thread.
So the Democrats should have been more racist or something? That's your diagnose of Clinton's performance?
I mean, it's not like they didn't go out and try to court white voters. They had people all over that shit at all sorts of types (from Biden to Sanders as an example).
Like, fundamentally, what do you think was the thing they should have said or done that would reach out to these people you are talking about? What was Clinton's campaign not giving them?
Yes. That's EXACTLY fucking it. Give me a fucking break.
I've already said why I think they failed. You can parse it any way you like.
My take on how this happened: Democrats played identity politics targeting everyone but the majority of white voters which in turn alienated them. Trump then energized those white voters who felt like they were being pushed to the wayside and forgotten. They voted to be represented.
I don't think it was just racist, sexist people that won this election for the Republicans. The thin margin that Clinton will lose by is because the Democratic party didn't convince white voters that the party was willing to fight for their well-being as much as they are clearly fighting for minorities and special interest groups. They need a plan to bring the non-racist, non-sexist, struggling, working class white voters back to the Democratic Party.
I would like to remind you that Clinton will have received more votes
Yeah
Which sadly means nothing in the US election process
Hillary lost PA, MI, and WI most likely due to a surge in the white working class in those states.
So it is Democrats' fault for not realizing the system is still designed to put white men above minorities and sucked up to them more?
I'm in shock. I trusted the country better than this and I never truly considered this to be a possibility. I just don't even know how I show up to work tomorrow and pretend it's ok.
I cannot believe that Trump won latino's by over 25%. This is insanity.
It is also incredibly saddening to realize that Obama is going to become a 2 term Jimmy Carter, with all of his accomplishments wiped out by a petty and venal opposition successor.
Yeah I'm gonna need some explanation of how she did worse with them than Obama.
I should clarify, i phrased it wrong, Trump won over 25% of Latinos, he didnt win the Latino vote. It just seems strange that the minority group he was most vocal against is also the one that he did best in comparatively.
Also, i'm betting that it wasnt rural or working poor that gave Trump the presidency, it was suburban whites.
That latino number has been circulating all night, but it's likely bogus: Nate Silver, here:
"The national exit poll shows Trump making bigger gains among black and Hispanic voters than among whites. But I’d urge at least a little caution. I know that exit polls aren’t supposed to be used for projecting results, but they did an awfully bad job tonight, initially showing what had looked like a near-landslide margin for Clinton. Furthermore, as compared with pre-election polls, Trump clearly overperformed the most in whiter states. So on second thought, maybe that’s a lot of caution and not just a little."
I guess Bernie would have won after all, how about that.
Not if Clinton supporters had been as stupid and fomented as much stupid shit about him among his weak demographics.
Bernie must really really hate himself. His holdouts and TYT-style "No good choices!"-acolytes are going to follow suit in a year or so. They've destroyed progressivism in the US.
Progressivism has already been destroyed.
This is exactly what we've been saying. You can't burn it all down and expect to build what YOU wanted on the ashes.
Yeah, I gotta say, the only bright side I can see to a Trump win here is we'll finally get to see what happens when you "burn it all down" as some smug silly geese have been calling for during this election and many times before it. The Stein voters and believers and others.
I suspect they will not like how it goes in reality.
Looks like Scott Adams is right, facts don't matter, only persuasion. He said that this election would prove that facts don't matter, and that Donald Trump would win due to superior persuasion.
This has been an exciting election. Looks like the next few years are going to entertaining.
Both matters. Man is animal hardware running a poorly optimized person OS
I am a Conservative, but what the fuck? I wanted this campaign to be a referendum on the lack of voice the average American had in American politics, and for this to be a wakeup call to President Clinton that "do not take this for granted. . ."
Honestly, they have only themselves to blame. I mean they are in a fucking "glass ceiling" hall for fucks sake. How do you have this level of hubris? How the fuck do you lose to DONALD FUCKING TRUMP.
We largely underestimated how powerful the racist white nationalist population was in this country, and how much of an impact directly speaking to them would have.
Its a failing.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy that for a second. People don't chose hating "darkies" over what they see as ethical or moral failings. Or at least not enough people to swing an election. She isn't losing by margins, she is LOSING. Period. Trying to pin this on the racists in this country is ignoring the problem (and how we got here in the first damn place).
Whether you buy it or not is irrelevant. Trump abandoned the "wink wink nudge nudge" racism of the Republican party up until now and embraced full blown racism, openly. And he won.
If that's not an endorsement of racism then what is
You're talking about racist somehow being the deciding factor here. Point to any result that suggests this. All these racists flipped these battleground states? Are you serious? She was a weak fucking candidate who had a barely hidden disdain for the primary process and her ascension to the Presidency. And now they're hand wringing as if they can't believe what's happened here. Really?
Don't blame her for her weak opponents, she knew what to do to get where she needs to be and they don't have an excuse that she was the presumed nominee. She got there through strength, coalitions, partnerships etc to get the job done. She followed the rules, and did it admirably. Sadly, I can't say the same for her competition.
Losing to Trump doesn't make her weak. Her failing is not proof her rivals could do it better.
At least I don't have to explain to four rooms of black children that their country despises them and hopes they can never experience success because I turned that job down.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
My take on how this happened: Democrats played identity politics targeting everyone but the majority of white voters which in turn alienated them. Trump then energized those white voters who felt like they were being pushed to the wayside and forgotten. They voted to be represented.
I don't think it was just racist, sexist people that won this election for the Republicans. The thin margin that Clinton will lose by is because the Democratic party didn't convince white voters that the party was willing to fight for their well-being as much as they are clearly fighting for minorities and special interest groups. They need a plan to bring the non-racist, non-sexist, struggling, working class white voters back to the Democratic Party.
I would like to remind you that Clinton will have received more votes
Yeah
Which sadly means nothing in the US election process
Hillary lost PA, MI, and WI most likely due to a surge in the white working class in those states.
So it is Democrats' fault for not realizing the system is still designed to put white men above minorities and sucked up to them more?
I guess.
Its possible to reach out to the struggling white working class while simultaneously helping minorities and special interest groups.
Just like its possible to help african americans while simultaneously helping hispanic americans
My take on how this happened: Democrats played identity politics targeting everyone but the majority of white voters which in turn alienated them. Trump then energized those white voters who felt like they were being pushed to the wayside and forgotten. They voted to be represented.
I don't think it was just racist, sexist people that won this election for the Republicans. The thin margin that Clinton will lose by is because the Democratic party didn't convince white voters that the party was willing to fight for their well-being as much as they are clearly fighting for minorities and special interest groups. They need a plan to bring the non-racist, non-sexist, struggling, working class white voters back to the Democratic Party.
The non-racists are already Dem-leaning Independents or in the Democratic Party. There's no way to reach out to the racists without accepting racist dogma, so there's an impasse there. The root is that those remaining white folk are literally children: children who see others getting their hand-me-downs and crying "no, they can't have that!!" Children who think about themselves and themselves alone: the only things that change their minds on anything is when it affects them directly, be it their daughter being a lesbian or them having to go back to work a week after giving birth. Children who are happy to see bad things happen to others as long as they're not happening to them. This was their last gasp and they managed to pull the country under just to spite it.
So, what are the chances we'll be able to be openly critical of Trump on a web forum like this in 2018 or 2020 without facing arrest or worst?
Nearly 100%. Come on, people.
It can't happen here, right? That is just something that happens in Other Places and history books.
It can.
I think it just did.
Come on. Yes, it can happen here. It's theoretically possible, America is made of people just like every other country that has gone down that rabbit hole. But the odds of it are remote. All this doom and gloom shit is tired. Yes, we lost an election. Yes, it will have some pretty awful consequences. But the thought police won't be rounding anybody up from the PA forums because they made fun of Trump's little baby mitts. If the insanity after 9/11 didn't get us there, electing the Trump won't either.
Tomorrow we start working on the 2018 election, not worrying whether it will happen. Don't be geese.
Everyone who is soley blaming the Dems fuck up, surely has forgotten about the "
Blue Dogs" AKA Republican Dixiecrats in disguise. Not to mention the special "Snowflakes" in the party who will be immune to Trumps Huntdown of Gays, non white American AND Foreign Citizens attain Citizenship alike, who basically became the image of the Dog in the Cafe in flames and totally;"I'm okay with this."
No shit You special "Snowflake" Dem dipshits, you are part of the "TRUE MERICA" class, so no big deal!
I'm scared for myself. I'm a single physically disabled guy living at home with my mom. I don't know what I'd do if I had to go into a nursing home. It's always been my big fear, that the programs I'm on would end, or that they'd be restricted to the point where I'd either no longer qualify or they would no longer be adequate for my needs.
I just put a sobbing SO to bed with a lot of nyquil.
All that keeps going through my mind is "Holy shit, I'm glad we're upper middle class, white, and in a blue-as-fuck state." And I feel fucking horrible for it. But so many of our friends and loved ones... I feel like we've failed the world as a democracy and any kind of symbol of liberty and tolerance.
The only thing I can hope and pray on is that this unleashes every single scandal that NBC and whoever was too afraid to leak before and he's stuck battling those for his entire term, if not impeached and convicted within months. But with the full weight of the executive behind him...
I think this is the harbinger of a realignment of powers. Speaking realpolitik here. It's not just that the wealth of the US is gonna go down, it's the whole world that will collapse and reorganize itself. Consider the GDP of the US compared to the rest of the world. When that consumption slows or crashes, everybody is going to go down. It's gonna suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
Maybe now liberals will learn that when you demonize people who disagree with you and nominate an unsavory candidate, they're not going to vote for you just because their candidate is a different flavor of unsavory.
Posts
So the Democrats should have been more racist or something? That's your diagnose of Clinton's performance?
I mean, it's not like they didn't go out and try to court white voters. They had people all over that shit at all sorts of types (from Biden to Sanders as an example).
Like, fundamentally, what do you think was the thing they should have said or done that would reach out to these people you are talking about? What was Clinton's campaign not giving them?
2016: Year of the Monkey's Paw
PSN: jrrl_absent
Yeah
Which sadly means nothing in the US election process
Hillary lost PA, MI, and WI most likely due to a surge in the white working class in those states.
This has been an exciting election. Looks like the next few years are going to entertaining.
Yes. That's EXACTLY fucking it. Give me a fucking break.
I've already said why I think they failed. You can parse it any way you like.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
And the RNC data:
i can't even move.
will i even be alive in a year. 2 years? 4 years?
White people, being scared, blaming it on Browns and Gays.
So it is Democrats' fault for not realizing the system is still designed to put white men above minorities and sucked up to them more?
I guess.
Wait seriously? Shit.
I hope she told him "don't fuck this up, ok?"
That may be, but... I'm glad you're still here with us.
Stay, please.
That latino number has been circulating all night, but it's likely bogus: Nate Silver, here:
"The national exit poll shows Trump making bigger gains among black and Hispanic voters than among whites. But I’d urge at least a little caution. I know that exit polls aren’t supposed to be used for projecting results, but they did an awfully bad job tonight, initially showing what had looked like a near-landslide margin for Clinton. Furthermore, as compared with pre-election polls, Trump clearly overperformed the most in whiter states. So on second thought, maybe that’s a lot of caution and not just a little."
Yeah, I gotta say, the only bright side I can see to a Trump win here is we'll finally get to see what happens when you "burn it all down" as some smug silly geese have been calling for during this election and many times before it. The Stein voters and believers and others.
I suspect they will not like how it goes in reality.
Why would anyone ever bother? "Politics" do not matter.
Don't blame her for her weak opponents, she knew what to do to get where she needs to be and they don't have an excuse that she was the presumed nominee. She got there through strength, coalitions, partnerships etc to get the job done. She followed the rules, and did it admirably. Sadly, I can't say the same for her competition.
Losing to Trump doesn't make her weak. Her failing is not proof her rivals could do it better.
Fuck
Its possible to reach out to the struggling white working class while simultaneously helping minorities and special interest groups.
Just like its possible to help african americans while simultaneously helping hispanic americans
The non-racists are already Dem-leaning Independents or in the Democratic Party. There's no way to reach out to the racists without accepting racist dogma, so there's an impasse there. The root is that those remaining white folk are literally children: children who see others getting their hand-me-downs and crying "no, they can't have that!!" Children who think about themselves and themselves alone: the only things that change their minds on anything is when it affects them directly, be it their daughter being a lesbian or them having to go back to work a week after giving birth. Children who are happy to see bad things happen to others as long as they're not happening to them. This was their last gasp and they managed to pull the country under just to spite it.
Come on. Yes, it can happen here. It's theoretically possible, America is made of people just like every other country that has gone down that rabbit hole. But the odds of it are remote. All this doom and gloom shit is tired. Yes, we lost an election. Yes, it will have some pretty awful consequences. But the thought police won't be rounding anybody up from the PA forums because they made fun of Trump's little baby mitts. If the insanity after 9/11 didn't get us there, electing the Trump won't either.
Tomorrow we start working on the 2018 election, not worrying whether it will happen. Don't be geese.
Blue Dogs" AKA Republican Dixiecrats in disguise. Not to mention the special "Snowflakes" in the party who will be immune to Trumps Huntdown of Gays, non white American AND Foreign Citizens attain Citizenship alike, who basically became the image of the Dog in the Cafe in flames and totally;"I'm okay with this."
No shit You special "Snowflake" Dem dipshits, you are part of the "TRUE MERICA" class, so no big deal!
How in the FUCK? How?
I almost puked
We officially fucking suck
All that keeps going through my mind is "Holy shit, I'm glad we're upper middle class, white, and in a blue-as-fuck state." And I feel fucking horrible for it. But so many of our friends and loved ones... I feel like we've failed the world as a democracy and any kind of symbol of liberty and tolerance.
The only thing I can hope and pray on is that this unleashes every single scandal that NBC and whoever was too afraid to leak before and he's stuck battling those for his entire term, if not impeached and convicted within months. But with the full weight of the executive behind him...
Sleep's not going to come easy tonight.
I kind of want to die.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
And then someone else is gonna take the lead.
WoW
Dear Satan.....