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The 2016 Conditional Post-Election Thread

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Posts

  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    cB557 wrote: »
    I think I might relisten to that The History of Rome podcast.
    It kinda bummed me out listening to it the first time. So many people living out their whole lives in a political system that is structurally fucked on a fundamental level and under leadership with unrestrained power when the leadership was often incompetent or completely selfish or just doesn't give a fuck or some other manner of being a piece of shit. But I guess right now, I could stand to be reminded that people lived under that their whole lives once. Remind me that our structure of government is flawed, but it isn't completely fucked. That it's four years instead of a lifetime, and that we have a say in who comes next.


    I would feel that way if we didn't have nuclear weapons and climate change

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Fear wins elections. That's very depressing.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Decision-2016-NTX-County-Map-V11.jpg

    We tried in Dallas county, we really tried.

    "excuse my French
    But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
    - Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    Can we please stop worshipping "big data" now?
    Houn wrote: »
    Once again:

    GOP control all branches. Expectations:
    - National Voter ID Law. Minorities will be disenfranchised to ensure a permanent R control.
    - Supreme Court Stacking. Roe v Wade, Brown v Board of Education overturned.
    - National laws prohibiting Gay Marriage, forcing bathroom choices.

    They were just handed a national mandate on the backs of racism, sexism, and social wedge issues. There's no way they don't make good on them while they can. Regardless of whether Trump intends to follow through with his campaign promises of authoritarian strong-arming, the platform itself has ensured single-party rule for the foreseeable future.

    The Republic is likely no more.

    Ridiculous.

    We have no checks in any branch of government. Not ridiculous.

    For 8 years republicans in congress demonstrated that they had no interest in governing, only in staunch obstruction in order to limit the achievements of the first black president, while their elected officials were picked off by extremists who installed their own candidates who adhere to radical dogma. They tried and failed to repeal Obamacare dozens of times when they were out of power. Now that they are in control of every branch of government, do you think they won't try even once?

    Roe v Wade is absolutely on the chopping block. Newt Gingrich will work to ensure his permanent republican majority dream endures. States will be freed up to pass any and all restrictive anti-trans and gay laws until the Supreme Court can get around to a case enshrining that right in precedent. These aren't statesmen who have been handed the keys of power. These are ideologues. This is a reality.

    Yes. Ridiculous. No checks? So the conservative revolt that happened this summer is all of a sudden just going to evaporate and they'll roll over for Trump because. . .reasons?

    This is beyond stupid if you think all of a sudden non-whites are going to just be in chains or whatever stupid nightmare scenario you've come up with because "Well that's just what Trump is going to want." This is a man who for the majority of his life had the same politics as the Clintons, and all of a sudden we're stepping back and saying "Well this is the first Republican candidate for President that's actually going to do everything he's said he would." There isn't going to be a wall, the deportation force is going to be cost prohibitive and Roe v. Wade isn't just going to go poof overnight (assuming Trump actually nominates someone who has been salivating at the thought of overturning it).

    It's ok be pissed, but this hyperbolic nonsense is just insane. But hey, as said, Trump may be the FIRST President to actually mean what he says (and have the political capital to get it done).
    Inkstain82 wrote: »

    They said he would win the national vote by 5 points. He lost it by 1.5. Their methodology sucked and was proven wrong.

    Where is he losing the national vote?

    The comparison to Bush seems thin to me at best. Did Bush pledge to build a massive concrete & steel wall across the U.S.-Mexico border? Did Bush pledge to commit war crimes or deport everyone of a given religious identity? I don't recall him doing those things.

    The world wasn't nearly in the same paradigm, either. There was no executive-managed drone program as Bush took power, 9/11 hadn't happened, the Korean peninsula was much more stable, Russia hadn't annexed the Ukraine, there wasn't a massive refugee crisis, the U.S. wasn't in the middle of fighting a war against a Jihadist group...


    Things were so sunshine and rainbows that Wired published its now much maligned 'The Long Boom' magazine.


    Perhaps Trump didn't mean any of the things he said, but he did in fact say them when Bush did not, and in fact Bush several times rejected extremist profiling of Muslims (even though he engaged in a war that ultimately killed many of them). So there is perfectly legitimate cause for alarm.


    Who do you propose will stop Trump if he does want to pursue his election agenda? Anyone who does will almost certainly just be replaced by much more compliant figures in the midterm elections.

    With Love and Courage
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Also, as much as I hate Trump, that victory speech was alright. It was incoherant for the most part, as is his style, but it was at least conciliatory and somewhat presidential, for his standards. I guess I'm hoping he doesn't turn out as awful as he campaigned that he was going to be.

    Stabbity_Style.png
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Gator wrote: »
    Jesus

    Khizr Khan must be devastated

    turns out, no, there is no place for his son in america.

    sorry.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    One of the things that really depresses me is that I don't know how we make progress with the groups we need to win over.

    The racists and the bigots will love him despite whatever else happens because now they get to be publically awful.

    The anti-Hillary Rs will swallow it because Hillary would have been worse.

    The fringe left will continue to believe that Hillary would have been just as bad and next time will be their time for sure.

    All we can do is motivate people we already agree with, and the ever deepening partisan divide continues to grow.
    A few years of the Trump Gustapo demanding papers should move quite a few more Hispanics our way, that's something I guess. And when Trump's protectionism fails to revitalize manufacturing in the rust belt, Michigan could swing back.

    Not nearly enough to be happy with, but something.

  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    We gotta learn something from those. Losing to Trump like this is flat out embarrassing. Tired of seeing all the "he won cuz racists" ok I get it, but meh. Rings hollow. Loser talk. You don't improve or get anywhere by crying foul and blaming other people. Whatever it was we put forward, it wasn't enough to beat freaking Trump, and that's fucking tragic.

    I just tuned out of the Clinton campaign for the last 6 months because I didn't care for her beyond having to vote for her. Now i have a morbid curiosity to go and look with hindsight because this is just... ugh.

    Time to crash with whiskey.

  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Also, Nate Silver looking how I'm feeling.

    CwyimiKUcAERpaC.jpg

    Stabbity_Style.png
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    I went to bed 2 1/2 hours ago. My best friend texted me, sobbing, when Clinton conceded. I don't know how to tell her things will be okay, like I usually do. Worse, her 7-year-old daughter who, in the last two weeks, had come to like Clinton and become potentially interested, is going to be completely devastated. I don't know what her mom should tell her, or what I could.

    Any other election I could say something about the peaceful transfer of power and ideals of democracy and how civic engagement, standing up for what you believe and working to make things better.

    But this? I can't. It would ring hollow. I don't know what to tell my little brother, whose first election was 2008, who proudly voted for Obama and who actively participated in Bernie's campaign because he believed America should do better.

    I don't want to go home for Thanksgiving to my grandparents who certainly voted for this because I don't want to discuss it at all and it will certainly come up.

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Gator wrote: »
    Jesus

    Khizr Khan must be devastated

    I am genuinely worried for the safety of the Khans, and every woman who ever accused Trump of sexual assault.

  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Also, as much as I hate Trump, that victory speech was alright. It was incoherant for the most part, as is his style, but it was at least conciliatory and somewhat presidential, for his standards. I guess I'm hoping he doesn't turn out as awful as he campaigned that he was going to be.

    Yeah it was actually listenable.

    Strangely enough, shame about the face tho.

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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    So.... Kaine '20?

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  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    We gotta learn something from those. Losing to Trump like this is flat out embarrassing. Tired of seeing all the "he won cuz racists" ok I get it, but meh. Rings hollow. Loser talk. You don't improve or get anywhere by crying foul and blaming other people. Whatever it was we put forward, it wasn't enough to beat freaking Trump, and that's fucking tragic.

    I just tuned out of the Clinton campaign for the last 6 months because I didn't care for her beyond having to vote for her. Now i have a morbid curiosity to go and look with hindsight because this is just... ugh.

    Time to crash with whiskey.

    The problem is, what can you DO? Trump's platform was eminently racist. Racism was one of the few things he was entirely consistent on. But you can't add racism to your platform to compete with him. He worked off reality denial, fear, and othering. None of those are things a real political party should be willing to add to their arsenal.

    So what do Dems do?

    Steam ID: Right here.
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »

    We tried in Dallas county, we really tried.

    I was thinking about you a lot during the night. Stay calm in the face of the first flush of insufferable smugness from your family. You'll get to laugh at them as one Trump promise after another crumbles into abject failure. It's petty, but it'll keep you sane.

  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    The idea that Bush and Trump are comparable relies on a complete ignorance of their stated platforms. And demeanor.

  • Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Duffel wrote: »
    One thing this has demonstrated, which I had always suspected and feared but never thought I would see confirmed:

    For all the bullshit we give them, and the horrors of the era, Americans of today are worse than our forebears. For all their faults, when they saw fascism rising here, they rejected it and stood against it.

    The Americans of today embraced it.

    The greatest generation fought fascism. Their children brought it to America.

    Not just America. The UK, the Philippines, Poland, the US... a lot of nations are throwing out the lessons learned from WWI and WWII. We'll see how LePen does in France and Merkel does in Germany next year.
    Australia too. It's chilling how the world has had a massive right wing resurgence, and it continues unimpeded.
    Backlash after that massive liberal leftist wave in the '90s... Oh.

    Oh.

    Just waiting for that goose that pops into these thread once every week, on the clock, to gloat now.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I think the only solution is to organize and pressure as best we can. Become more involved, not less.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    ...So.


    Is Sam Wang going to stream himself eating that bug?

    With Love and Courage
  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    ...So.


    Is Sam Wang going to stream himself eating that bug?

    Funny part: he got the national margin closer than anyone

  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    So when Kanye West said he was going to run in 2020, I laughed at the thought anyone would vote for him.

    Tonight... I wish I could have voted for Kanye.

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Opty wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    The same things people are saying about Trump they said about Bush in 2004. I said it in the last thread: if you believe that Trump is going to be the end of America, and what America stands for then you really had no right voting in the first place because you already have given up.

    And 2005 was so bad a midterm electorate was a Democratic wave and then we elected a fucking black dude President.

    Even a democratic wave wouldn't take back the house unless it was just absolutely gigantic. It's what, +9-10 on the generic ballot?

    Good luck.

    I'm just saying we were right about Bush. He fucked everything up!

    He did!

    And yet we can still make critical comments about him on this web forum, and last I checked very few gays have been rounded up and gassed.

    So mayyyybe we can temper some of the doom and gloom in here?

    And I say this as somebody who had to go play in the desert, which is to say somebody who was directly harmed more than most by Bush. Life goes on. We will likely still have elections in 2018 and 2020, and a free press, and all that other fun stuff when Trump becomes an embarrassing footnote, a national-scale Jesse Ventura.

    No, but minorities sure were put in bad situations whether being rounded up, assaulted or imprisoned - home and abroad. Then there's Katrina. I don't recall his government being especially tolerant of LGBT either.

    Gays were also rounded up for conversion therapy, some of which included rape.

    By the government? In the 21st century?

    Because that seems to be what people are insinuating a fear of.

    And I'm definitely still making critical comments about Bush on this forum right now. And will almost certainly be criticizing Trump in 2024 on the interwebs as well, when he's booted out. Maybe in 2020, if we're lucky!

    I think we definitely have reason to worry about the attitudes within the general populace that this election betrays. On that front, yes LGBT folks do have some reason to worry. But it's my understanding that conversion therapy is generally forced/coerced by family, not something forced by the government. And while it will be horrifying to see that continue in Trump Country, people saying they need to "get out of the US" seem to be ignoring the large portions of the country (where most of the people live) where you are free to live your life just as L, G, B, or T as you please with pretty minimal interference. You don't need to move out of the US, you can probably get by simply by moving out of North Carolina. Seattle's nice, I hear LA can be too.

    I mean sure, maybe our new God King will round up all the undesirables just before launching the nukes. But I suspect that for the bulk of us living in bright blue areas, the economy will just suck a bit and we'll have to see things on the news about upsetting social justice issues in far away lands. Like Kansas. Which is still a big deal! But reading this thread (and the last one) I think a lot of people are blowing this out of proportion.

    Life will go on tomorrow. The 2018 election season is a year away. I got shipped off to Iraq right after casting my vote for Kerry and watching the nation say "nope, sorry, this Bush guy is onto something." I'm still here. Life goes on, for the most part. It's just an election. Worse than most. But still.

    I don't disagree with you, but I don't think it should be underestimated how this will embolden certain demographics in the US. Anti-immigrant sentiment and violence shot up massively following the Brexit vote.

    There's plenty of harm a government can "do" simply by not restraining the bad actors in society.

  • rockrngerrockrnger Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    We gotta learn something from those. Losing to Trump like this is flat out embarrassing. Tired of seeing all the "he won cuz racists" ok I get it, but meh. Rings hollow. Loser talk. You don't improve or get anywhere by crying foul and blaming other people. Whatever it was we put forward, it wasn't enough to beat freaking Trump, and that's fucking tragic.

    I just tuned out of the Clinton campaign for the last 6 months because I didn't care for her beyond having to vote for her. Now i have a morbid curiosity to go and look with hindsight because this is just... ugh.

    Time to crash with whiskey.

    The problem is, what can you DO? Trump's platform was eminently racist. Racism was one of the few things he was entirely consistent on. But you can't add racism to your platform to compete with him. He worked off reality denial, fear, and othering. None of those are things a real political party should be willing to add to their arsenal.

    So what do Dems do?
    I kinda feel like we just had a masterclass in opposition politics.

    Did you know trumps first act as president is going to be to give his wife a million dollars? You do now.

    and maybe all your Facebook friends should know too.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »

    We tried in Dallas county, we really tried.

    I was thinking about you a lot during the night. Stay calm in the face of the first flush of insufferable smugness from your family. You'll get to laugh at them as one Trump promise after another crumbles into abject failure. It's petty, but it'll keep you sane.

    It's not comforting. And they will blind themselves to his atrocities as they pile up. They'll claim it's the liberal press, etc. There's no victory to be won here. Minutes after the election was called for Trump, the sister who's been sending out crazy Clinton stuff sent out another crazy Clinton email. Because her getting defeated was not enough reason for my sister to stop being obsessed with Clinton conspiracy theories, I guess. Maybe I should take it as a good sign, that my sister needed to try to convince herself that she did the right thing by getting Trump elected.

    "excuse my French
    But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
    - Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Going to try to go to sleep again which I know won't come, but I leave the thread with this

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    So.... Kaine '20?
    I don't know if there's a presently active democrat that would be a viable candidate in the current US?

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Can someone enlighten me as to why term limits exist for president? Surely if people keep voting for them, it's ok to keep bringing them back as president regardless of how long they've been one?

  • GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Can we finally admit that a lot of people here had essentially been living in an echo chamber?

    Me and the LA Times were probably the only ones calling this election correctly. And after all the laughing and scoffing and turning your noses up to literally every single time I pointed out how a Trump victory was not only very possible but indeed plausible, who ended up being right in the end? Who was the sole dissenting voice among all of you, daring to see past the talking points and the smokescreens to examine the actual writing on the wall?

    This is democracy, this is what it's all about whether you like it or not. While you were all clinking your teacups and giving each other warm congratulatory pats on the back, I was gauging the winds of change and popular sentiment, the forces that had been set into motion of which you all remained so blissfully unaware.

    And what did I get for my troubles, for my attempts to add some small measure of perspective to the ringing chorus of denial?

    Ridicule. Scorn. Dismissal.

    You had this coming. All of you. You slept and dreamed, and now you're finally starting to wake up, even as you're still struggling to make sense of what's happening.

    Well allow me to fill you in so you can finally get caught up: Reality just hit you like a 747. Now enjoy the next four to possibly eight years.

  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    We gotta learn something from those. Losing to Trump like this is flat out embarrassing. Tired of seeing all the "he won cuz racists" ok I get it, but meh. Rings hollow. Loser talk. You don't improve or get anywhere by crying foul and blaming other people. Whatever it was we put forward, it wasn't enough to beat freaking Trump, and that's fucking tragic.

    I just tuned out of the Clinton campaign for the last 6 months because I didn't care for her beyond having to vote for her. Now i have a morbid curiosity to go and look with hindsight because this is just... ugh.

    Time to crash with whiskey.

    The problem is, what can you DO? Trump's platform was eminently racist. Racism was one of the few things he was entirely consistent on. But you can't add racism to your platform to compete with him. He worked off reality denial, fear, and othering. None of those are things a real political party should be willing to add to their arsenal.

    So what do Dems do?

    Again, we gotta stop looking at the other side. I don't care what Trump did. Whatever it was that he put out there, we were ineffective at countering. It's false to say we have to be like that to beat it.

    I definitely wanted Bernie here and im not going to make a "shoulda been bernie" thing, I know it's not the time. But I'm reminded of all the times when people said they just werent excited by Hiliary, and the response is we SHOULD be, we SHOULD be excited for this and platform. And... I guess? But apparently in the real world people simple WEREN'T, and that's not on anyone but us. We dealt in what people should like and should vote for instead of what they actually DO like and WILL be motivated to vote for.

    This wasn't some inevitable racist apocalypse, WE FUCKED IT UP. Somehow. And unless we can fucking grasp that we'll be back at it in 4 years, shaking our fists at the sky at the cruel inevitability of defeat.

  • DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    Sooo...odds on the Republicans running one of the guys from Duck Dynasty in 2024?

    ...and winning?

  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    Can we please stop worshipping "big data" now?
    Houn wrote: »
    Once again:

    GOP control all branches. Expectations:
    - National Voter ID Law. Minorities will be disenfranchised to ensure a permanent R control.
    - Supreme Court Stacking. Roe v Wade, Brown v Board of Education overturned.
    - National laws prohibiting Gay Marriage, forcing bathroom choices.

    They were just handed a national mandate on the backs of racism, sexism, and social wedge issues. There's no way they don't make good on them while they can. Regardless of whether Trump intends to follow through with his campaign promises of authoritarian strong-arming, the platform itself has ensured single-party rule for the foreseeable future.

    The Republic is likely no more.

    Ridiculous.

    We have no checks in any branch of government. Not ridiculous.

    For 8 years republicans in congress demonstrated that they had no interest in governing, only in staunch obstruction in order to limit the achievements of the first black president, while their elected officials were picked off by extremists who installed their own candidates who adhere to radical dogma. They tried and failed to repeal Obamacare dozens of times when they were out of power. Now that they are in control of every branch of government, do you think they won't try even once?

    Roe v Wade is absolutely on the chopping block. Newt Gingrich will work to ensure his permanent republican majority dream endures. States will be freed up to pass any and all restrictive anti-trans and gay laws until the Supreme Court can get around to a case enshrining that right in precedent. These aren't statesmen who have been handed the keys of power. These are ideologues. This is a reality.

    Yes. Ridiculous. No checks? So the conservative revolt that happened this summer is all of a sudden just going to evaporate and they'll roll over for Trump because. . .reasons?

    This is beyond stupid if you think all of a sudden non-whites are going to just be in chains or whatever stupid nightmare scenario you've come up with because "Well that's just what Trump is going to want." This is a man who for the majority of his life had the same politics as the Clintons, and all of a sudden we're stepping back and saying "Well this is the first Republican candidate for President that's actually going to do everything he's said he would." There isn't going to be a wall, the deportation force is going to be cost prohibitive and Roe v. Wade isn't just going to go poof overnight (assuming Trump actually nominates someone who has been salivating at the thought of overturning it).

    It's ok be pissed, but this hyperbolic nonsense is just insane. But hey, as said, Trump may be the FIRST President to actually mean what he says (and have the political capital to get it done).
    Inkstain82 wrote: »

    They said he would win the national vote by 5 points. He lost it by 1.5. Their methodology sucked and was proven wrong.

    Where is he losing the national vote?

    The conservative revolt was because they didn't think he could win, no other reason.

    Now that he has they're going to send him every bit of fucked up terrible legislation that they've been salivating over for years, and Pence is going to stack the executive branch with a hoard of evangelical approved assholes, and all those neat things we've seen the federal government do the past year and a half (DADT overturned, Justice Department pushing for Title 9 protections for trans students, etc) are going to be slowed down/overturned, and Trump is going to get to sit in the white house and feel like the most important man in the world.

    I really don't see how we're not right and truly fucked.

    7h8wnycre6vs.png
  • AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    Start working for secession. CA and Northeast to start. Make the US ungovernable.

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    We gotta learn something from those. Losing to Trump like this is flat out embarrassing. Tired of seeing all the "he won cuz racists" ok I get it, but meh. Rings hollow. Loser talk. You don't improve or get anywhere by crying foul and blaming other people. Whatever it was we put forward, it wasn't enough to beat freaking Trump, and that's fucking tragic.

    I just tuned out of the Clinton campaign for the last 6 months because I didn't care for her beyond having to vote for her. Now i have a morbid curiosity to go and look with hindsight because this is just... ugh.

    Time to crash with whiskey.

    The problem is, what can you DO? Trump's platform was eminently racist. Racism was one of the few things he was entirely consistent on. But you can't add racism to your platform to compete with him. He worked off reality denial, fear, and othering. None of those are things a real political party should be willing to add to their arsenal.

    So what do Dems do?

    Run a middle aged white dude who believes the right things about what should be done for the country, and has history of helping the black community, while being plenty white and dudely to give him another point or two with white voters. Probably pair him with Warren to bring in women and the far left.

    That gives you a point of popular vote, and is enough to give you the presidency.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Duffel wrote: »
    One thing this has demonstrated, which I had always suspected and feared but never thought I would see confirmed:

    For all the bullshit we give them, and the horrors of the era, Americans of today are worse than our forebears. For all their faults, when they saw fascism rising here, they rejected it and stood against it.

    The Americans of today embraced it.

    The greatest generation fought fascism. Their children brought it to America.

    Not just America. The UK, the Philippines, Poland, the US... a lot of nations are throwing out the lessons learned from WWI and WWII. We'll see how LePen does in France and Merkel does in Germany next year.

    Australia too. It's chilling how the world has had a massive right wing resurgence, and it continues unimpeded.

    Canada didn't. France and Germany have a chance soon to show that they are still sensible

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    The comparison to Bush seems thin to me at best. Did Bush pledge to build a massive concrete & steel wall across the U.S.-Mexico border? Did Bush pledge to commit war crimes or deport everyone of a given religious identity? I don't recall him doing those things.

    The world wasn't nearly in the same paradigm, either. There was no executive-managed drone program as Bush took power, 9/11 hadn't happened, the Korean peninsula was much more stable, Russia hadn't annexed the Ukraine, there wasn't a massive refugee crisis, the U.S. wasn't in the middle of fighting a war against a Jihadist group...

    Bush didn't have to do exactly what Trump is doing to be terrible. He was absolutely terrible in his own ways, and he didn't need drones to do it. He was engaged in a two front war with Iraq and Afghanistan, openly goaded Al Queada to attack, failed to kill bin Laden, his government refused to do the research available to tell Sunnis and Shi`its apart, he had no problems with Fox News creating an atmosphere that was racist, xenophobic and anti-Muslim, allowed his administration to go to strenuous lengths to make torture legal, his VP leaked Valarie Plame etc. You could fill a book with their horrific war crimes and bullshit.

    W. didn't reveal his true colors until 9/11 that is true, and it's debatable his government didn't fuck up to have that happen on their watch. Then his government gleefully exploited 9/11 to disgusting lengths to do what they want.

    W. is not as bad as Trump will certainly be, I'm not denying that. But he was still a huge monster who we'd be remiss to forget how awful he was, and his role in making President Trump a reality.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Can someone enlighten me as to why term limits exist for president? Surely if people keep voting for them, it's ok to keep bringing them back as president regardless of how long they've been one?

    Because FDR kept winning and it pissed off Republicans. Also "tradition."

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • JokermanJokerman Registered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    Can we finally admit that a lot of people here had essentially been living in an echo chamber?

    Me and the LA Times were probably the only ones calling this election correctly. And after all the laughing and scoffing and turning your noses up to literally every single time I pointed out how a Trump victory was not only very possible but indeed plausible, who ended up being right in the end? Who was the sole dissenting voice among all of you, daring to see past the talking points and the smokescreens to examine the actual writing on the wall?

    This is democracy, this is what it's all about whether you like it or not. While you were all clinking your teacups and giving each other warm congratulatory pats on the back, I was gauging the winds of change and popular sentiment, the forces that had been set into motion of which you all remained so blissfully unaware.

    And what did I get for my troubles, for my attempts to add some small measure of perspective to the ringing chorus of denial?

    Ridicule. Scorn. Dismissal.

    You had this coming. All of you. You slept and dreamed, and now you're finally starting to wake up, even as you're still struggling to make sense of what's happening.

    Well allow me to fill you in so you can finally get caught up: Reality just hit you like a 747. Now enjoy the next four to possibly eight years.

    Has there ever been a denial this isn't an echo chamber?

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