The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
Please vote in the Forum Structure Poll. Polling will close at 2PM EST on January 21, 2025.
[Canadian Politics] Shouldn't we talk about the weather?
Apparently the NDP in bc is saying they're not interested at all in talking about amalgamation for Victoria and the other municipalities despite the overwhelming majority of voters saying they want to talk about it. I think it was over 90% on esquimalt and like 86% in Saanich.
Whether or not you agree with amalgamation, asking voters at the polls and getting an overwhelming response to discuss it deserves more than "lol, nope!"
I get that local politics is good for many things but 13 Fucking mayors and staff for less than a million people is just stupid.
My folks are over in Colwood on the island and complain all the time about having the separate municipalities.
They do sort of work together when they have to, but it's always super slow and new mayors can derail things easily.
I applaud the desire to combine services and that's probably the best way to begin amalgamation but yeah, having a dozen kings and kingdoms slows down everything in the region.
I feel like Canada has a fair ways to go on race relations, especially with indigenous peoples, but Fuck me if I am not glad as hell we are not led by an out and out bigot.
I feel helpless though because virtually every American I've ever met is someone I would describe as "good people" and it seems like the country is going to shit. It's depressing and I cannot do anything to help.
I wouldn't worry about how much we can do to help Aridhol, we already are, numerous times we are providing a counter-culture to the prevaiding neo-con diatribes to the south. Its at least in part why American tourists I bump into at the front till at work seem to be head over heals in love with Justin, just by being decent people, we're providing a sense that things can be done differently in US politics.
I've seen that same thing repeated in Reddit things that make it to the top of r/all, we're kinda punching above our weight class culturally just by doing things like having pictures of our cops not being dicks or whatever. It starts conversations on politics the US needs to have, like simply not thinking of the word socialism as derogatory. Simple to us, but to them that's counter-culture. We know there are a ton of things Canada could be doing better, we don't even all like Justin up here because he often seems like more words than political action and even back tracks on some important stuff like electoral reform, but in the depths of the US despair, we kinda present a beacon of hope and not just as a place to move to ( those that could afford to do that already have, IMHO ).
I think it just goes to show how we need to remain civil in our political discussion and not devolve into thinking an opposing point of view is automatically condescending to its opponents, finding a way to be decent to each other even when we don't agree fully seems like a path to more decency in society - its part of why I think our election system should reflect that and why its disappointing to me the boondoggle PM Trudeau made of that portfolio.
Ignorant American question: Is there something in the water in Ontario? I've been noticing that a lot of alt-right shitheels in FB comments seem to be from there.
Ignorant American question: Is there something in the water in Ontario? I've been noticing that a lot of alt-right shitheels in FB comments seem to be from there.
It's by far the largest English speaking province, so it's probably just a sampling thing.
Ignorant American question: Is there something in the water in Ontario? I've been noticing that a lot of alt-right shitheels in FB comments seem to be from there.
It's by far the largest English speaking province, so it's probably just a sampling thing.
Gotcha, I was curious as to whether it was just a limited sampling thing or if the place was a bit weird.
Ignorant American question: Is there something in the water in Ontario? I've been noticing that a lot of alt-right shitheels in FB comments seem to be from there.
It's by far the largest English speaking province, so it's probably just a sampling thing.
I believe northern Ontario is also considered a rural (read us southern states) kinda place where men are men etc...
I am not informed enough to speak further but that's my read.
On the west coast we just have tinfoil hat crazy people and general background racism against indigenous folks. Though the anti Asian sentiment in Vancouver is pretty prevalent.
Yay! So nice to have a leader that's not a ball of ignorance/hate/stupidity and that also will denounce Nazi's with no outside prompting.
Trudeau denounced Nazis?
I expect that, in response, the CPC has publicly taken a strong pro-Nazi stance and attacked Trudeau for his stance?
"It is irresponsible for our Prime Minister to single out a group of people and condemn them for their political beliefs. All Canadians have the right to freedom of belief and the freedom to express those beliefs. When will Justin Trudeau stop playing political games with the lives of Canadian citizens, trying to score political points off the backs of honest, hard-working Canadians, so he can look good for his international magazine fans?"
Ignorant American question: Is there something in the water in Ontario? I've been noticing that a lot of alt-right shitheels in FB comments seem to be from there.
It's by far the largest English speaking province, so it's probably just a sampling thing.
Yay! So nice to have a leader that's not a ball of ignorance/hate/stupidity and that also will denounce Nazi's with no outside prompting.
Trudeau denounced Nazis?
I expect that, in response, the CPC has publicly taken a strong pro-Nazi stance and attacked Trudeau for his stance?
"It is irresponsible for our Prime Minister to single out a group of people and condemn them for their political beliefs. All Canadians have the right to freedom of belief and the freedom to express those beliefs. When will Justin Trudeau stop playing political games with the lives of Canadian citizens, trying to score political points off the backs of honest, hard-working Canadians, so he can look good for his international magazine fans?"
Ignorant American question: Is there something in the water in Ontario? I've been noticing that a lot of alt-right shitheels in FB comments seem to be from there.
It's by far the largest English speaking province, so it's probably just a sampling thing.
I believe northern Ontario is also considered a rural (read us southern states) kinda place where men are men etc...
I am not informed enough to speak further but that's my read.
On the west coast we just have tinfoil hat crazy people and general background racism against indigenous folks. Though the anti Asian sentiment in Vancouver is pretty prevalent.
Speaking as someone from the more rural parts of Southwestern Ontario, it's about the same here. It's also pretty white-washed outside of bigger cities, so there's not a lot of exposure to other cultures. Just take a look at the electoral maps for Ontario, and you'll see that predominantly rural ridings lean hard towards the Conservative party. By extension they're more fertile ground for regressive attitudes that folks feel comfortable expressing more publicly.
Ignorant American question: Is there something in the water in Ontario? I've been noticing that a lot of alt-right shitheels in FB comments seem to be from there.
The Canadian online right in general's gotten highly radicalized since 2015. It's ugly.
950 million bucks to host the commonwealth games in Victoria.
Way more than I thought it'd be but meh, I support these kinds of feel good prestige things.
Events that draw in others from surrounding communities and regions are noticable economic drivers, at least in smaller communities like our villages. Not sure how big of an impact that is for Victoria though, that place already has a considerable number of attractions, second only to Vancouver IMHO.
How does it work when Victoria hosts something big like that? Do they hire an extra flotilla of ferries or something? Tell everybody to suck it up and fly into the airport? The ferries seem bad enough on ordinary three-day weekends...
Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
Speaking of foods. The CNE is opening and they're doing that promotion where if you come in at 11am and leave before 2 they'll refund your pass. It's basically a lunch pass.
How does it work when Victoria hosts something big like that? Do they hire an extra flotilla of ferries or something? Tell everybody to suck it up and fly into the airport? The ferries seem bad enough on ordinary three-day weekends...
Transportation actually isn't that bad though everything will be packed.
It's hotels where people will be super fucked.
Ignorant American question: Is there something in the water in Ontario? I've been noticing that a lot of alt-right shitheels in FB comments seem to be from there.
The Canadian online right in general's gotten highly radicalized since 2015. It's ugly.
They've got their own Breitbart now and it's pretty ugly. They are slowly trying to replicate the US right-wing media bubble. I'm not sure if it will be as effective.
Hey what do you guys think of the proposed changes to how people can incorporate themselves and tax-defer earnings/ pay dividends to family members?
The change seems aimed at ending what's essentially a tax loophole for high-earning individuals (mostly doctors), so I'm for it on it's face. The OMA (Ontario medical association) is going pretty hard against it, claiming it'll be bad for all small business and also will result in worse healthcare, although I remain unconvinced. Aren't business expenses deductable anyway? Wouldn't this just affect take-home pay (depending on how large your family is) and future investments (aka bigger nest egg for doctors, but not so much contributing to clinic costs). I had a lengthy argument with a pretty conservative dude about this, but I wasn't sure if I was talking out of my ass.
Ignorant American question: Is there something in the water in Ontario? I've been noticing that a lot of alt-right shitheels in FB comments seem to be from there.
The Canadian online right in general's gotten highly radicalized since 2015. It's ugly.
They've got their own Breitbart now and it's pretty ugly. They are slowly trying to replicate the US right-wing media bubble. I'm not sure if it will be as effective.
Speaking of which, the Rebel has lost its most experienced enabler.
Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
Don't know anything about it. Got a primer for us ?
Certainly! I'm no really an expert, but the gist is that right now physicians commonly self incorporate. This provides them a few benefits, the most pertinent ones that the Liberals want to change are (as I understand them)
1) Income Sprinkling: basically, if you incorporate you can pay family members a salary from your corporation: boom presto that income is taxed at a lower tax bracket. This can be a substantial tax saving, like $30,000 in taxes
And
2) Tax deferrel: you can keep money in the corporation, so you don't pay income tax on it. While it's sitting in the corporation you can use it to invest, and since you're investing more capital you make more money than you would have. When do take it out later and pay taxes on it, you end up with more money.
Income splitting where you pay family members seems a little shady but I like the statement that it has to pass a reasonableness test. If you really do employ your mom as a receptionist then that's fine but it has to be legit work.
I don't get the investment thing. I can skim off income from my job and invest it to avoid immediate taxes, why can't a doctor who's self employed? I am not sure I agree with it as written.
Income splitting where you pay family members seems a little shady but I like the statement that it has to pass a reasonableness test. If you really do employ your mom as a receptionist then that's fine but it has to be legit work.
I don't get the investment thing. I can skim off income from my job and invest it to avoid immediate taxes, why can't a doctor who's self employed? I am not sure I agree with it as written.
Edit: also thanks
So, #1 is basically just abusing tax bracket rules. Instead of a business person bringing home a $100 000 salary, now the four members of the family each bring home $25 000 each. Clearly tax evasion (or at least, a method to evade taxes, if we want to be careful about jargon). The plan, as I understand it, is that the CRA would audit people and ding them if they're doing that illegitimately.
Morneau plans to impose a "reasonableness" test so this does not punish legitimate family businesses. That test will determine just how much work a family member actually does at a business, and if they can really lay claim to profits. Approximately 50,000 Canadian families will be affected by this change, Finance Canada estimates.
#2 is something I also don't understand why it should exist. (It's under the subtitle "Passive investment income" in the above CBC link.) The OMA and some other organizations are complaining that it's unfair, because unlike other companies, their only asset is themselves; they can't sell their company at retirement to fund their retirement like you might a manufacturing company or whatever. (This isn't entirely true, since some doctors do sell their practices, but their point is well taken.) Where I think their argument falls apart is that they argue that their corporations should be allowed to invest its profits into stocks, real estate, etc. - which is capital, but not really capital for the corporation in the way we let business write off the costs of investing in themselves, like if a burger joint buys a new soda machine - and then subsequently sell those assets off after their retirement.
In this manner, for example, a doctor might "make" $200 000 a year, pay $100 000 of it from their own corporation to themselves, then buy $100 000 of stocks for the corporation, writing it off as a business expense, so their personal income is only $100 000 and their corporate profit is $0. (Or whatever.)* Then that money comes back around when they're retired and their salary income is $0, then their capital income is $100 000, so they end up paying a lower tax rate than had they paid themselves the full $200 000 salary,** and then plowed $100 000 of that money into a personal investment for retirement. I'm pretty sure that's what most individuals do, right? Like, you get paid a salary, it's taxed at that income level, and you can spend it or invest it, but either way, none of it is written off. (With the exception of TFSAs and possibly other similar investment vehicles.) Right? If you made $200 000 a year, you pay all the taxes due on that amount at that tax bracket, and then you get to invest the rest. When you say you get to "skim income from [your] job and invest it to avoid immediate taxes," I don't know what you're talking about?
That being said, I believe registered pension plans operate in the former manner: RPP money is taxed when the money comes out, after you've retired so it gets taxed at a lower bracket, and not when the money goes in. I don't totally know why that is, presumably to encourage corporations to establish RPPs for their employees, but obviously that hasn't been working out too well these days. So what doctors are doing with their private corporations isn't too different from that, though I don't know why they can't establish their own RPPs then - I presume it's a lot of paperwork and maybe a certain size of corporation is required or some controls are too onerous for them to meet?
One salient point that's been coming from the OMA is that doctors have been long encouraged to set up their corporations like this, and in fact have received advice from the government to do this. They claim that the government has even highlighted this as part of their bargaining negotiations, so it's unfair to change the conditions under which their bargaining agreements were established after the fact. (Again, I think the OMA is kinda full of shit on this one, because they have no current agreement with the Ontario government, and have in fact pressed the Ontario government into binding arbitration, which is yet to occur, so presumably the arbitrator would take this into account anyways, but whatever.) Regardless, I still don't see why this is a good argument for not enacting these tax code changes; at most, I think it means that maybe doctors should get paid more to compensate for this, not that this important structural change should be put off (nor that we should create a loophole within this loophole closing measure just for some people). I can't think of a particularly good argument to keep this particular structure in, other than maybe that it'd be hard to enforce?
Butttt I might be misunderstanding something here, because I'm kinda dumb with taxes and investments and all that.
* Technically, the investment income earned by the corporation is taxed, but at the lower corporate rate not the personal rate. But this gets too complicated for me to explain clearly, because taxes are actually coming off left and right. See the CIBC link in the post below.
** Actually, the corporate profits would be dispensed as dividends or bonus, instead of salary, but whatever. It'd be personal income when reported to the CRA for tax purposes.
Note that the 45.3% personal tax rate they use is the highest marginal tax rate for non-eligible Canadian dividends in Ontario, for people making >$220 000.
Posts
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/b-c-rules-out-amalgamating-capital-region-ponders-more-sharing-of-services-1.21838804
Whether or not you agree with amalgamation, asking voters at the polls and getting an overwhelming response to discuss it deserves more than "lol, nope!"
I get that local politics is good for many things but 13 Fucking mayors and staff for less than a million people is just stupid.
They do sort of work together when they have to, but it's always super slow and new mayors can derail things easily.
My eyes have had enough with the smoke.
it was really bad last night, looked outside at around midnight and it looked like fog.
Needed the rain we got to float over to BC
Not as bad as 4 years ago (Or whenever that was), but still.
I applaud the desire to combine services and that's probably the best way to begin amalgamation but yeah, having a dozen kings and kingdoms slows down everything in the region.
Ya my eyes are getting constant styes from it and just red all day. Fun to drive an 8 hour shift in.
Yay! So nice to have a leader that's not a ball of ignorance/hate/stupidity and that also will denounce Nazi's with no outside prompting.
I feel helpless though because virtually every American I've ever met is someone I would describe as "good people" and it seems like the country is going to shit. It's depressing and I cannot do anything to help.
I've seen that same thing repeated in Reddit things that make it to the top of r/all, we're kinda punching above our weight class culturally just by doing things like having pictures of our cops not being dicks or whatever. It starts conversations on politics the US needs to have, like simply not thinking of the word socialism as derogatory. Simple to us, but to them that's counter-culture. We know there are a ton of things Canada could be doing better, we don't even all like Justin up here because he often seems like more words than political action and even back tracks on some important stuff like electoral reform, but in the depths of the US despair, we kinda present a beacon of hope and not just as a place to move to ( those that could afford to do that already have, IMHO ).
I think it just goes to show how we need to remain civil in our political discussion and not devolve into thinking an opposing point of view is automatically condescending to its opponents, finding a way to be decent to each other even when we don't agree fully seems like a path to more decency in society - its part of why I think our election system should reflect that and why its disappointing to me the boondoggle PM Trudeau made of that portfolio.
Trudeau denounced Nazis?
I expect that, in response, the CPC has publicly taken a strong pro-Nazi stance and attacked Trudeau for his stance?
Gotcha, I was curious as to whether it was just a limited sampling thing or if the place was a bit weird.
I believe northern Ontario is also considered a rural (read us southern states) kinda place where men are men etc...
I am not informed enough to speak further but that's my read.
On the west coast we just have tinfoil hat crazy people and general background racism against indigenous folks. Though the anti Asian sentiment in Vancouver is pretty prevalent.
"It is irresponsible for our Prime Minister to single out a group of people and condemn them for their political beliefs. All Canadians have the right to freedom of belief and the freedom to express those beliefs. When will Justin Trudeau stop playing political games with the lives of Canadian citizens, trying to score political points off the backs of honest, hard-working Canadians, so he can look good for his international magazine fans?"
It's also nearly 40% of the total population too
I thought this was real it was so good.
Speaking as someone from the more rural parts of Southwestern Ontario, it's about the same here. It's also pretty white-washed outside of bigger cities, so there's not a lot of exposure to other cultures. Just take a look at the electoral maps for Ontario, and you'll see that predominantly rural ridings lean hard towards the Conservative party. By extension they're more fertile ground for regressive attitudes that folks feel comfortable expressing more publicly.
The Canadian online right in general's gotten highly radicalized since 2015. It's ugly.
It's called Alt-TV.
*uncomfortable silence*
Really. Really.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I was so grumpy I just drove away.
I get limits on discounted stuff but 3? Ridiculous.
Could you not have split into two ordering groups of two?
Or was this a drive through?
Drive through.
#firstworldproblems I know but still. 3 is silly.
Way more than I thought it'd be but meh, I support these kinds of feel good prestige things.
http://www.cheknews.ca/holding-2022-commonwealth-games-victoria-cost-955m-committee-357487/
The whole point of the super cheap burgers is to order like 5 per person.
Transportation actually isn't that bad though everything will be packed.
It's hotels where people will be super fucked.
They've got their own Breitbart now and it's pretty ugly. They are slowly trying to replicate the US right-wing media bubble. I'm not sure if it will be as effective.
The change seems aimed at ending what's essentially a tax loophole for high-earning individuals (mostly doctors), so I'm for it on it's face. The OMA (Ontario medical association) is going pretty hard against it, claiming it'll be bad for all small business and also will result in worse healthcare, although I remain unconvinced. Aren't business expenses deductable anyway? Wouldn't this just affect take-home pay (depending on how large your family is) and future investments (aka bigger nest egg for doctors, but not so much contributing to clinic costs). I had a lengthy argument with a pretty conservative dude about this, but I wasn't sure if I was talking out of my ass.
Speaking of which, the Rebel has lost its most experienced enabler.
Certainly! I'm no really an expert, but the gist is that right now physicians commonly self incorporate. This provides them a few benefits, the most pertinent ones that the Liberals want to change are (as I understand them)
1) Income Sprinkling: basically, if you incorporate you can pay family members a salary from your corporation: boom presto that income is taxed at a lower tax bracket. This can be a substantial tax saving, like $30,000 in taxes
And
2) Tax deferrel: you can keep money in the corporation, so you don't pay income tax on it. While it's sitting in the corporation you can use it to invest, and since you're investing more capital you make more money than you would have. When do take it out later and pay taxes on it, you end up with more money.
Again, not an accountant, and a lot of the info out there is biased. Here's a pretty neutral look, as far as I can tell
I don't get the investment thing. I can skim off income from my job and invest it to avoid immediate taxes, why can't a doctor who's self employed? I am not sure I agree with it as written.
Edit: also thanks
So, #1 is basically just abusing tax bracket rules. Instead of a business person bringing home a $100 000 salary, now the four members of the family each bring home $25 000 each. Clearly tax evasion (or at least, a method to evade taxes, if we want to be careful about jargon). The plan, as I understand it, is that the CRA would audit people and ding them if they're doing that illegitimately.
(http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/morneau-tax-changes-wealthy-consultations-tuesday-1.4210201)
#2 is something I also don't understand why it should exist. (It's under the subtitle "Passive investment income" in the above CBC link.) The OMA and some other organizations are complaining that it's unfair, because unlike other companies, their only asset is themselves; they can't sell their company at retirement to fund their retirement like you might a manufacturing company or whatever. (This isn't entirely true, since some doctors do sell their practices, but their point is well taken.) Where I think their argument falls apart is that they argue that their corporations should be allowed to invest its profits into stocks, real estate, etc. - which is capital, but not really capital for the corporation in the way we let business write off the costs of investing in themselves, like if a burger joint buys a new soda machine - and then subsequently sell those assets off after their retirement.
In this manner, for example, a doctor might "make" $200 000 a year, pay $100 000 of it from their own corporation to themselves, then buy $100 000 of stocks for the corporation, writing it off as a business expense, so their personal income is only $100 000 and their corporate profit is $0. (Or whatever.)* Then that money comes back around when they're retired and their salary income is $0, then their capital income is $100 000, so they end up paying a lower tax rate than had they paid themselves the full $200 000 salary,** and then plowed $100 000 of that money into a personal investment for retirement. I'm pretty sure that's what most individuals do, right? Like, you get paid a salary, it's taxed at that income level, and you can spend it or invest it, but either way, none of it is written off. (With the exception of TFSAs and possibly other similar investment vehicles.) Right? If you made $200 000 a year, you pay all the taxes due on that amount at that tax bracket, and then you get to invest the rest. When you say you get to "skim income from [your] job and invest it to avoid immediate taxes," I don't know what you're talking about?
That being said, I believe registered pension plans operate in the former manner: RPP money is taxed when the money comes out, after you've retired so it gets taxed at a lower bracket, and not when the money goes in. I don't totally know why that is, presumably to encourage corporations to establish RPPs for their employees, but obviously that hasn't been working out too well these days. So what doctors are doing with their private corporations isn't too different from that, though I don't know why they can't establish their own RPPs then - I presume it's a lot of paperwork and maybe a certain size of corporation is required or some controls are too onerous for them to meet?
One salient point that's been coming from the OMA is that doctors have been long encouraged to set up their corporations like this, and in fact have received advice from the government to do this. They claim that the government has even highlighted this as part of their bargaining negotiations, so it's unfair to change the conditions under which their bargaining agreements were established after the fact. (Again, I think the OMA is kinda full of shit on this one, because they have no current agreement with the Ontario government, and have in fact pressed the Ontario government into binding arbitration, which is yet to occur, so presumably the arbitrator would take this into account anyways, but whatever.) Regardless, I still don't see why this is a good argument for not enacting these tax code changes; at most, I think it means that maybe doctors should get paid more to compensate for this, not that this important structural change should be put off (nor that we should create a loophole within this loophole closing measure just for some people). I can't think of a particularly good argument to keep this particular structure in, other than maybe that it'd be hard to enforce?
Butttt I might be misunderstanding something here, because I'm kinda dumb with taxes and investments and all that.
* Technically, the investment income earned by the corporation is taxed, but at the lower corporate rate not the personal rate. But this gets too complicated for me to explain clearly, because taxes are actually coming off left and right. See the CIBC link in the post below.
** Actually, the corporate profits would be dispensed as dividends or bonus, instead of salary, but whatever. It'd be personal income when reported to the CRA for tax purposes.
https://www.cibc.com/content/dam/small_business/day_to_day_banking/advice_centre/pdfs/business_reports/in-good-company-en.pdf
Note that the 45.3% personal tax rate they use is the highest marginal tax rate for non-eligible Canadian dividends in Ontario, for people making >$220 000.