Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[Rogue One] A Spoiler Filled Thread

1262729313234

Posts

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Yeah, the Emperor's throne room is in his personal tower.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited January 2017
    I'd forgotten that shot. Good call.

    Kind of like a wizard's tower. Apt, really.

    Jazz on
    ElvenshaeMr Ray
  • FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    Seems like a very vulnerable place to be, sticking out like that. You don't want some x-wing blasting your throne room.

    PSN: PatParadize
    Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
    BloodySlothGiggles_Funsworth
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Sparvy wrote: »
    Has there been any discussion about the stupid force field/planet gate thing in the final battle? Because it was so bad.
    There are multitude of worlds in the Star Wars setting with planetary shields of different varieties, it's not at all surprising that the Empire would protect a high-value asset with a massive shield. It's just that nothing happened on any important worlds in the OT, and Lucas conveniently "forgot" in the PT (i.e., said screw you to a ton of authors) that Coruscant was shielded (and said shield would've been perfect for blocking anything stupid like a fleet showing up to attack the planet, but that would've required some effort to write around so he ditched the canon for his lazy solution).
    Vader living on Mustafar is badass and I won't hear anything about it
    A base like that is the sort of reason you don't need to have an intro crawl. Oh, we're going to see this guy who has a fucking lava fortress on top of a lava-fall on the lava planet where he got his limbs chopped off and was left to burn to death by his old master?

    Gets the point across waaaaay better than "Vader works for the Empire and is bad".

    Ninja Snarl P on
    spool32Local H JayElvenshaeGiggles_Funsworth
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Planetary shields became the go-to answer in the EU for "why don't they just bomb it from space?".

    When there wasn't a mega-weapon in play, obviously.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Couple more things I didn't like about R1

    The score seemed awesome in the trailers but then felt like a poor emulation of John Williams at best and mostly nonexistent at worst in the actual movie.

    Speaking of the score, the music swells the first time Jimmy Smits shows up, like he's a big deal. You'd think Obi Wan just stepped in the room. Then he doesn't even say anything and nobody even says who the fuck he is. WTF? Really odd scene. It's like making a big dramatic entrance for a background extra.

    Seemed like every time a new location came up there was a subtitle telling you where it was. Except Mustafar, for some reason? I don't know, unless I missed it or something. It was an odd inconsistency.

    AbsoluteZero on
    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Couple more things I didn't like about R1

    The score seemed awesome in the trailers but then felt like a poor emulation of John Williams at best and mostly nonexistent at worst in the actual movie.

    Speaking of the score, the music swells the first time Jimmy Smits shows up, like he's a big deal. You'd think Obi Wan just stepped in the room. Then he doesn't even say anything and nobody even says who the fuck he is. WTF? Really odd scene. It's like making a big dramatic entrance for a background extra.

    Seemed like every time a new location came up there was a subtitle telling you where it was. Except Mustafar, for some reason? I don't know, unless I missed it or something. It was an odd inconsistency.

    he's Jimmy Smits! duh

    ElvenshaeGiggles_FunsworthN1tSt4lker
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Seems like a very vulnerable place to be, sticking out like that. You don't want some x-wing blasting your throne room.

    Pfft, what are the odds of being able to use one tiny ship to blast one little window on a giant object in space?



    Oh. Riiiiiiiight.

    ElvenshaeMild ConfusionGiggles_FunsworthL Ron HowardOatsRMS Oceanic
  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Couple more things I didn't like about R1

    The score seemed awesome in the trailers but then felt like a poor emulation of John Williams at best and mostly nonexistent at worst in the actual movie.

    Speaking of the score, the music swells the first time Jimmy Smits shows up, like he's a big deal. You'd think Obi Wan just stepped in the room. Then he doesn't even say anything and nobody even says who the fuck he is. WTF? Really odd scene. It's like making a big dramatic entrance for a background extra.

    Seemed like every time a new location came up there was a subtitle telling you where it was. Except Mustafar, for some reason? I don't know, unless I missed it or something. It was an odd inconsistency.

    he's Jimmy Smits! duh

    I'm sorry but I think President Santos deserves a little flourish when he walks in the room.
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Seems like a very vulnerable place to be, sticking out like that. You don't want some x-wing blasting your throne room.

    Yeah it seems really weird that they would build a Death Star with a serious structural weakness.

    KetBra on
    ohKiGmg.png
    Steam Bnet:KetBra#1692 Yo Satan
    So It GoesBloodySlothElvenshaeMild ConfusionImperfectGiggles_FunsworthL Ron HowardN1tSt4lker
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Planetary shields became the go-to answer in the EU for "why don't they just bomb it from space?".

    When there wasn't a mega-weapon in play, obviously.

    Well, in all fairness, putting up a big debris-stopping shield around an important planet is a pretty good idea in a setting where power is plentiful and moving large objects in space is pretty easy.

    For a planet like Coruscant, it just plain makes sense to put up shields so that you don't have orbital wrecks plowing down into the planet and killing millions on a regular basis.

    RchanenBloodySlothElvenshaeGiggles_Funsworthoverride367N1tSt4lkerNobeard
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    And like, the Death Star II had one as well. They didn't have the CGI to do it like they did in Rogue One, but it's kind of a key plot point.

    ElvenshaeGiggles_Funsworthoverride367Mr Ray
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    shryke wrote: »
    I love RLM, but I think they are so wrong about RO and the level of scrutiny they level at it, no adventure movie would really live up to, even the original trilogy.

    I haven't bothered to watch any of their other videos because I don't give a shit, but the short like 7 minute Plinkett one is dead on and the OT would easily pass the tests they set there.

    Name a character from ANH only, that is deeper than Cassian. Whiny Luke? Sassy princess? Generic, reluctant hero, from a western, Solo? I thin Jyn could have more screen time to flesh her out, sure, but I also don't want an adventure movie to be 2.5 hours plus. K2 does better humor than 3p0, while being tragic at the same time.

    Plinkett says RO doesn't check the story box, he reduces the story to steal the thing to blow up a thing. How does that not apply to ANH, it's even more simple, just blow up the thing. RO covers what it's like to be an insurgent against the overwhelming authority of the Empire. Cassian even shoots a good guy to prevent him from falling into the enemies hands and giving up information/being subject to torture. RO covers the hesitation, the fear, the chaos that rebel leaders have to face when trying to put together an illegal alliance. It shows one mans struggle when having to work for an evil organization, with his only hope of revenge, a far flung sabotage. Chirrut and Baze's backstories... the rebel traitor. This movie's story really IS the characters, even more than the plot about revenge and espionage.

    Plinkett says RO doesn't check the character box, Name a character from ANH only, that is deeper than Cassian. Whiny Luke? Sassy princess? Generic reluctant hero from a western Solo? I thin Jyn could have more screen time to flesh her out, sure, but I also don't want an adventure movie to be 2.5 hours plus. K2 does better humor than 3p0, while being tragic at the same time. Even Chirrut has more going on as a secondary character than someone like Chewy had.

    Then he hits on emotion. This is extremely subjective, but this is the only Star Wars movie where I felt a lump in my throat by the end.

    They also complain whenever the movies have something new, but bitch and call it fan service when you see something from the previous movies such as Vader, or an AT-ST. You literally can't win. I like RLM but they aren't Star Wars fans (fine) that are stuck having to review stuff they don't like because their video that made them internet famous happened to be about Star Wars.

    Ok, I think the 3 aspects are a decent framework for talking about the film. There's not alot of point really getting bogged down in the nitty-gritty of someone else's opinions anyway. They can justify their own ideas, I'm talking about how the things they mentioned and the framing they chose for how to approach their review of the films are ones I can agree with on a general level.


    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Story: ANH is a really solid script overall. Every scene and beat exists for a reason and moves towards the next and the stakes ramp up till a really great finale. Rogue One is full of pointless scenes and character beats that go nowhere. The entire first arc of the movie has fairly obviously been fucked around with alot in editing and it shows. There's multiple plot threads that go nowhere or fizzle out or struggle to have a reason to exist. The movie also constructs a fairly standard "heroic sacrifice-a-palooza" setup for the end and then fails to find any good reason for almost anyone's sacrifice or generate any solid scenes for it happening. Other then Jyn and Cassian, all the death scenes are perfunctory.

    Emotion: This mostly follows from the above really. The movie fails to elicit much emotional reaction because it fails at establishing characters we feel connected to and then doesn't really do anything interesting with them. Like, it's a movie where the whole main cast is killed and yet basically none of them made me care much. Jyn and Cassian were about the only main characters where this worked and that was only for their very last scene as most of the rest of their climax felt climax-less. I felt more for the random mooks getting slaughtered by Vader then most of the mains. I think the two scenes they compare really illustrate the contrast well. Rogue One is better technically and the action more visually interesting but it fails to have any personality or character to it.

    The movie isn't bad by any means it's just not that good either. It's a very hollow experience imo. The Force Awaken's script was way more of a mess then Rogue One's and had more glaring story issues in some ways but it had memorable characters that made me feel shit. I largely agree with the comparison they do in that video when they mention the two movies. And if you wanna compared it to A New Hope, I'd say that one manages to hit having memorable characters and a pretty good story overall that really manages to

    As a side note of sorts they also comment on how the movie doesn't work as any sort of standalone and is full of scenes (mostly pointless "look, look, it's X from another Star Wars film /nudgenudge") that don't really make much sense outside the context of "I've already seen all the other 7 films". This is more interesting then anything. I'm not sure it should really qualify as a problem with the film. But it's certainly accurate.


    As for RLM in general, they seem to like the original trilogy just fine. And they think the prequels are complete trash which, yeah, they are. The new stuff they seem alot less enamored of then alot of people and as I said, I pretty much agree on that part. I think both of the new Star Wars films have been fun but deeply flawed in various ways. But you don't make something like the Plinkett Star Wars reviews without liking the original films alot. The reviews drip with admiration for them. Even the R1 and TFA reviews do. Maybe they aren't Star Wars fans as in crazy obsessed with the franchise but they are clearly fans of the originals as movies at the least. And there's nothing strange about coming at the films from that perspective and thinking that the new films aren't as good.

    shryke on
    Apothe0sis
  • KetarKetar My autocomplete is a tad agressive today.Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Bullshit. His obvious discomfort with the execution of his contact informs his later decision to not execute Galen Erso as ordered. It further informs his decision to throw in with Jyn in defiance of the Alliance leadership, as well as the decision of all of those nameless rebels who had also done "terrible things" in the name of the Alliance that they wouldn't be able to live with if they didn't see things all the way through.

    PhillishereSo It GoesBloodySlothElvenshaearmageddonboundKanaGiggles_Funsworthoverride367Bloodsheed
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Bullshit. His obvious discomfort with the execution of his contact informs his later decision to not execute Galen Erso as ordered. It further informs his decision to throw in with Jyn in defiance of the Alliance leadership, as well as the decision of all of those nameless rebels who had also done "terrible things" in the name of the Alliance that they wouldn't be able to live with if they didn't see things all the way through.

    Except not. He's pretty ok with killing the guy in the opening. The whole point of this scene is to establish that this is the kind of guy he is. A trait that never comes up because he doesn't do it ever again.

    Apothe0sisFroThulhuImperfectNobeard
  • KetarKetar My autocomplete is a tad agressive today.Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Bullshit. His obvious discomfort with the execution of his contact informs his later decision to not execute Galen Erso as ordered. It further informs his decision to throw in with Jyn in defiance of the Alliance leadership, as well as the decision of all of those nameless rebels who had also done "terrible things" in the name of the Alliance that they wouldn't be able to live with if they didn't see things all the way through.

    Except not. He's pretty ok with killing the guy in the opening. The whole point of this scene is to establish that this is the kind of guy he is. A trait that never comes up because he doesn't do it ever again.

    No, he isn't. There is a long lingering shot of his face as he grimaces. They make it wholly obvious that he didn't like doing what he just did. And that goes on to inform his later decisions as I outlined.

    So It GoesMancingtomPhillishereHappylilElfJazzBloodySlothElvenshaeKanaGiggles_Funsworthoverride367BloodsheedMvrck
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Basically some people liked the characters, enjoyed them for what they were and knew that they would only get one film of character development and not three films, several tv shows, a plethora of books, comics, games, etc to flesh them out, basically demanding something impossible of a single film introducing several new characters and their motivations, while also acknowledging that even the original trilogy wasn't perfect and to be held up like some flawless jewel that can never be reoroduced

    and other people didn't

    XB1/360 - Local H Jay
    PS4 - Local_H_Jay
    Sub me on Youtube
    And Twitch
    BloodySlothElvenshaeFroThulhuarmageddonboundGiggles_Funsworth
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Bullshit. His obvious discomfort with the execution of his contact informs his later decision to not execute Galen Erso as ordered. It further informs his decision to throw in with Jyn in defiance of the Alliance leadership, as well as the decision of all of those nameless rebels who had also done "terrible things" in the name of the Alliance that they wouldn't be able to live with if they didn't see things all the way through.

    Except not. He's pretty ok with killing the guy in the opening. The whole point of this scene is to establish that this is the kind of guy he is. A trait that never comes up because he doesn't do it ever again.

    I immediately saw on his face that he was conflicted about shooting that guy.

    KetardavidsdurionsPhillishereHappylilElfJazzBloodySlothOptimusZedElvenshaeFroThulhuGiggles_Funsworthoverride367BloodsheedN1tSt4lkerMvrck
  • FakefauxFakefaux Cóiste Bodhar Driving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered User regular
    He also, of course, has his whole bitter rant latter on about the horrible things he's done for the rebellion. And then his whole reason for joining in at the end is he (and his fellow black ops rebels) all hate themselves for the things they've done and want to give it some meaning.

    Also, I may have the timing of it wrong, but I'm pretty sure he clearly sees Galen Erso stand between a firing squad and its victims before deciding not to assassinate him.

    PhillishereBloodySlothElvenshaehonovereKanaGiggles_Funsworthoverride367N1tSt4lkerOats
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Bullshit. His obvious discomfort with the execution of his contact informs his later decision to not execute Galen Erso as ordered. It further informs his decision to throw in with Jyn in defiance of the Alliance leadership, as well as the decision of all of those nameless rebels who had also done "terrible things" in the name of the Alliance that they wouldn't be able to live with if they didn't see things all the way through.

    Except not. He's pretty ok with killing the guy in the opening. The whole point of this scene is to establish that this is the kind of guy he is. A trait that never comes up because he doesn't do it ever again.

    No, he isn't. There is a long lingering shot of his face as he grimaces. They make it wholly obvious that he didn't like doing what he just did. And that goes on to inform his later decisions as I outlined.

    He wasn't happy about it but he didn't look conflicted about it either. It was something distasteful but that needed doing. We establish that he's a guy willing to kill even a companion for the cause. This is supposed to I guess raise tension for his relationship with Jyn. He's supposed to kill her father. Would he kill her or anyone else to get the job done? Well, no. He decides not to kill Galen for reasons the film never makes clear and that's that. After that him and Jyn are best buds because reasons.

    Apothe0sisNobeard
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Basically some people liked the characters, enjoyed them for what they were and knew that they would only get one film of character development and not three films, several tv shows, a plethora of books, comics, games, etc to flesh them out, basically demanding something impossible of a single film introducing several new characters and their motivations, while also acknowledging that even the original trilogy wasn't perfect and to be held up like some flawless jewel that can never be reoroduced

    and other people didn't

    Most characters in most films only get 1 film worth of character development. This has never hurt the medium of film before.

    Saying "It's only one film" is really silly.

    Apothe0sisThisEtiowsaKraintNobeard
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Bullshit. His obvious discomfort with the execution of his contact informs his later decision to not execute Galen Erso as ordered. It further informs his decision to throw in with Jyn in defiance of the Alliance leadership, as well as the decision of all of those nameless rebels who had also done "terrible things" in the name of the Alliance that they wouldn't be able to live with if they didn't see things all the way through.

    Except not. He's pretty ok with killing the guy in the opening. The whole point of this scene is to establish that this is the kind of guy he is. A trait that never comes up because he doesn't do it ever again.

    No, he isn't. There is a long lingering shot of his face as he grimaces. They make it wholly obvious that he didn't like doing what he just did. And that goes on to inform his later decisions as I outlined.

    He wasn't happy about it but he didn't look conflicted about it either. It was something distasteful but that needed doing. We establish that he's a guy willing to kill even a companion for the cause. This is supposed to I guess raise tension for his relationship with Jyn. He's supposed to kill her father. Would he kill her or anyone else to get the job done? Well, no. He decides not to kill Galen for reasons the film never makes clear and that's that. After that him and Jyn are best buds because reasons.

    I think you might have to accept other people got different things out of the acting/scenes than you did? I mean it was very clear to me he thought it necessary to shoot the guy so he could get away without info falling into the Empire's hands but that he felt bad about it and I even picked up the sense that this was not the first time he had done something like that. It was also clear to me he was struggling with the mission to shoot Galen - this made sense since after the first scene because I inferred he was a rebel used to doing bad things for ostensibly the right reasons and I understand that most good at heart people can only do that for so long before they say no more.

    Diego Luna did a great job imparting these type of inner emotions to the viewer, I thought. But I guess you didn't read it the same way I did! Which is fine.

    So It Goes on
    KetardavidsdurionsBloodySlothJazzRoad BlockOptimusZedPhillishereElvenshaearmageddonboundBloodsheedN1tSt4lker
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited January 2017
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Planetary shields became the go-to answer in the EU for "why don't they just bomb it from space?".

    When there wasn't a mega-weapon in play, obviously.

    Well, in all fairness, putting up a big debris-stopping shield around an important planet is a pretty good idea in a setting where power is plentiful and moving large objects in space is pretty easy.

    For a planet like Coruscant, it just plain makes sense to put up shields so that you don't have orbital wrecks plowing down into the planet and killing millions on a regular basis.

    On the other hand, Coruscant has such a massive amount of space traffic coming and going at all times that perhaps shielding the whole planet is simply unfeasible because it needs so much access all over its surface at all times. (Can you imagine being an air traffic controller on Coruscant?) And ships in Star Wars seem extremely reliable, basically 100% so unless attacked or the Falcon for plot and/or running gag reasons, and pilots and autopilots never seem to mess up unless under truly extreme duress. See also Coruscant's constant volume of flying car traffic, that seems like a more immediate threat than the possibility of the odd capital ship crashing planetside during a massive but very rare war.

    Jazz on
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Bullshit. His obvious discomfort with the execution of his contact informs his later decision to not execute Galen Erso as ordered. It further informs his decision to throw in with Jyn in defiance of the Alliance leadership, as well as the decision of all of those nameless rebels who had also done "terrible things" in the name of the Alliance that they wouldn't be able to live with if they didn't see things all the way through.

    Except not. He's pretty ok with killing the guy in the opening. The whole point of this scene is to establish that this is the kind of guy he is. A trait that never comes up because he doesn't do it ever again.

    No, he isn't. There is a long lingering shot of his face as he grimaces. They make it wholly obvious that he didn't like doing what he just did. And that goes on to inform his later decisions as I outlined.

    He wasn't happy about it but he didn't look conflicted about it either. It was something distasteful but that needed doing. We establish that he's a guy willing to kill even a companion for the cause. This is supposed to I guess raise tension for his relationship with Jyn. He's supposed to kill her father. Would he kill her or anyone else to get the job done? Well, no. He decides not to kill Galen for reasons the film never makes clear and that's that. After that him and Jyn are best buds because reasons.

    I dunno, I felt it seemed pretty clear that his relationship with Jyn gave him a perspective that made it difficult for him to separate himself from the situation enough so that killing Galen was possible. That catalyzes within the character a bond to Jyn, because she ends up being the reason he sees the good within himself and reminds Cassian why he's fighting this fight to begin with.

    So It GoesElvenshaeFroThulhuHarry Dresdenoverride367Bloodsheed
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I think the death star is just a Y-axis building with magical gravity, like the ships in the universe.

    None of the hangar bays have exits in the ceiling as far as I can remember.

    Centrifugal gravity wouldn't work because it's a sphere, also that would make the surface the bottom floor. Also it is stationary when aiming etc.

    So pretty sure it's just magic single-axis gravity generated by something.

    PSN: Honkalot
    JazzFroThulhushrykeGiggles_FunsworthZombie HeroForarOatsNobeard
  • MimMim There's nothing the matter with my face! I got character.Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The Force Awaken's script was way more of a mess then Rogue One's and had more glaring story issues in some ways but it had memorable characters that made me feel shit. I largely agree with the comparison they do in that video when they mention the two movies. And if you wanna compared it to A New Hope, I'd say that one manages to hit having memorable characters and a pretty good story overall that really manages to

    Whoa wait, what's wrong with Force Awakens?

  • MimMim There's nothing the matter with my face! I got character.Registered User regular
    Basically some people liked the characters, enjoyed them for what they were and knew that they would only get one film of character development and not three films, several tv shows, a plethora of books, comics, games, etc to flesh them out, basically demanding something impossible of a single film introducing several new characters and their motivations, while also acknowledging that even the original trilogy wasn't perfect and to be held up like some flawless jewel that can never be reoroduced

    and other people didn't

    My boss was upset they didn't do the opening music that they did in all the other Star Wars films. He was perturbed that I wasn't thrown off by it. Like her literally stopped me in the middle of my duties and was like "You mean to tell me that the opening music not being there didn't make you feel off?!"

    I was like "No? "

    but then again my boss is a dick who admitted to being a traditionalist. So he'd probably worship the originals and pee on the rest.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    I enjoyed The Force Awakens, but it is derivative as fuck; so many elements are lifted straight from the original trilogy and especially A New Hope. You could pass the baton without copying quite so much, and you could definitely introduce more variation in how you copy things. As it is, too much of The Force Awakens is "Remember this?"

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
    KetarThisHarry DresdenTOGSolidL Ron HowardMr RayKraint
  • MimMim There's nothing the matter with my face! I got character.Registered User regular
    Thirith wrote: »
    I enjoyed The Force Awakens, but it is derivative as fuck; so many elements are lifted straight from the original trilogy and especially A New Hope. You could pass the baton without copying quite so much, and you could definitely introduce more variation in how you copy things. As it is, too much of The Force Awakens is "Remember this?"

    Ah okay, I actually agree with that. However, I still liked it more than A New Hope? It seemed like a perfect blend of new stuff and still giving props to the OT. I really think that the addition of Finn helped it feel not too similar. Also the mystery around Rey made it interesting*, considering in ANH there wasn't even a question about who Luke's parents were. He was just a boy related to Anakin Skywalker.
    tho let's be honest, she's a Skywalker

    How episodes 8 and 9 go down will really determine the trilogy as a whole. But I'm optimistic.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Character: Name a character from ANH deeper then Cassian? Any of the main ones. Cassian is as paper thin as any of the characters in R1. They try to cast the illusion of depth via making him seem dark with his intro scene but this informs nothing he does for the rest of the film. Generally all the characters lack anything from reason to exist to an arc to basic motivation. The movie throws them out there and relies on us thinking "This is how this kind of movie goes" to avoid noticing that they haven't bothered to do any real character work. ANH's characters are all archetypal but they are also imbued with personality and all their motivations are clear and spelled out. The movie spends alot of scenes establishing their characteristics and their relationships.

    Bullshit. His obvious discomfort with the execution of his contact informs his later decision to not execute Galen Erso as ordered. It further informs his decision to throw in with Jyn in defiance of the Alliance leadership, as well as the decision of all of those nameless rebels who had also done "terrible things" in the name of the Alliance that they wouldn't be able to live with if they didn't see things all the way through.

    Except not. He's pretty ok with killing the guy in the opening. The whole point of this scene is to establish that this is the kind of guy he is. A trait that never comes up because he doesn't do it ever again.

    No, he isn't. There is a long lingering shot of his face as he grimaces. They make it wholly obvious that he didn't like doing what he just did. And that goes on to inform his later decisions as I outlined.

    He wasn't happy about it but he didn't look conflicted about it either. It was something distasteful but that needed doing. We establish that he's a guy willing to kill even a companion for the cause. This is supposed to I guess raise tension for his relationship with Jyn. He's supposed to kill her father. Would he kill her or anyone else to get the job done? Well, no. He decides not to kill Galen for reasons the film never makes clear and that's that. After that him and Jyn are best buds because reasons.

    I've only seen Rogue One once, but on that viewing I got the distinct impression that Cassian was once a good man who gave away his soul a small piece at a time. His speech before leaving for Scariff was basically him rallying everyone like himself, people who have done some fucked up shit for the Rebellion, and they all know it, but justified it all not because they're immoral, but because they were acting in service to a just cause, so the end justifies the means. His decision not to kill Jyn's dad, and his later decision to abscond with the ship to Scariff, deciding to honor the spirit of the Rebellion, not the letter of his orders, completes his arc.

    The opening scene informs the rest of the movie for Cassian because 'Hey assassinate this guy once you find him' seems like totally something Cassian would do, based on the opening scene. And then he doesn't because Cassian actually isn't that guy, he just thought he had to be in order to serve.

    BloodySlothDarkPrimusdavidsdurionsElvenshaeFroThulhukimeFencingsaxKetarSo It GoesLocal H JayJazzKanaHarry DresdenGiggles_Funsworthoverride367BloodsheedN1tSt4lkerOats
  • SparvySparvy Registered User regular
    edited January 2017
    Mim wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The Force Awaken's script was way more of a mess then Rogue One's and had more glaring story issues in some ways but it had memorable characters that made me feel shit. I largely agree with the comparison they do in that video when they mention the two movies. And if you wanna compared it to A New Hope, I'd say that one manages to hit having memorable characters and a pretty good story overall that really manages to

    Whoa wait, what's wrong with Force Awakens?

    I just found it kind of lazy, it didn't really care about being a coherent movie as long as it got the characters to locations needed for scenes that a blockbuster starwars movie should have.

    Why is Han Solo there? Who cares
    Why is the superweapon blowing up these planets, conveniently located in the same (and strangely small) solar system as the protaganists so that they can watch it in the sky? Who cares
    Why did Leia show up there? Who cares
    How did rebel pilot guy get there too? Who cares
    etc

    I mean the obvious answer to all of those is "because that is what people wants to see"

    It felt like a sitcom, every act starting "[character] enters stage left, pause for applause" with no other setup.

    Sparvy on
    FakefauxThisHonkKraint
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I mean, it answers all of those questions within the context of the movie, and none of the answers are outrageous or particularly implausible, but if you're just not satisfied with them, I don't really know how to help with that.

    davidsdurionsElvenshaeMimJayrichoLocal H JayAbsoluteZeroJazzGiggles_FunsworthBloodsheed
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2017
    It's reductive but I had similar gripes about TFA. It felt super serendipitous to me. The thing about the planets blowing up directly overhead of the crew was a real bs moment that really spoke to me that the writers did not at all recognize scale. It's bordering on nitpicking, but that really stood out to me.

    And everyone in that film just happens to be at the exact right centimeter of the galaxy at the right time.

    30 years after suffering their biggest blow ever the empire builds the exact same weapon but even after suffering defeat they are able to build it on a 1000 times larger scale.

    There's just too much bs in TFA to me. I thought it quite bad.

    The acting and new characters were really great though.

    It felt identifiably JJ Abrams and not at all like Star Wars to me.

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
    FencingsaxSparvykime
  • MimMim There's nothing the matter with my face! I got character.Registered User regular
    I just watched a 24 minute YT video about Rey's parentage theory and I don't know how to feel anymore.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    I just watched a 24 minute YT video about Rey's parentage theory and I don't know how to feel anymore.

    The same way everyone who watched this video felt after they saw Rogue One.

    wpyz0Y5.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • MimMim There's nothing the matter with my face! I got character.Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Mim wrote: »
    I just watched a 24 minute YT video about Rey's parentage theory and I don't know how to feel anymore.

    The same way everyone who watched this video felt after they saw Rogue One.


    All I kept thinking was "This dude is really into himself" and that the closed captions are way off in some spots when instead of saying "Rogue One" it read "Rwanda".

    My video at least shook my faith a bit:

    GreasyKidsStuffLocal H Jay
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    It's funny seeing Ben Mendelsohn being such a goofball in contrast to his character.

    5gsowHm.png
    ElvenshaeGiggles_FunsworthL Ron HowardDarkPrimusEmissary42
  • GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
    Oh shit, I had never seen that tweet from Star Wars asking about what happened to Obi-Wan's lightsaber... hmmmmm!

    Local H Jay
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Yeah that's a pretty good theory video, most of those are just clickbait but that one does a pretty good job of linking stuff together. Not sure about the Joan of Arc bit but a lot of the other evidence does line up.

    XB1/360 - Local H Jay
    PS4 - Local_H_Jay
    Sub me on Youtube
    And Twitch
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Having not watched the video, unless Darth Vader took Obi-Wan's lightsaber with him in his TIE X1 when he flew out to engage the Rebels, it was destroyed along with everything else on-board the Death Star.

    wpyz0Y5.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
    spool32
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Maybe there's some lucky mouse droid spinning around out in deep space, dreaming magnificent mouse droid dreams about slaying meatbags with its stolen old man lightsaber.

    FroThulhuElvenshaeGiggles_FunsworthRchanen
Sign In or Register to comment.