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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
Finished the season.
The ending to one plotline was laughably bad while the ending to another was pretty awesome.
Knowing nothing about Iron Fist was probably the reason I liked the show in general since the mystery of what he is and why he left Kun Lun is a pretty good hook. Combine that with a bunch of twists and turns from the Meachums, Colleen, and others made for an interesting season overall. Definitely enough for me to binge watch it in a day. I'll probably post more in depth when I'm not on my phone.
I'd put it on par with DD.
Season 2, if it gets one, is now set up to be very interesting, though. Real freaking consequences happen as a result of this season.
General spoiler
Also hardly any consequences at all happened since they NEVER CHOPPED PEOPLES HEADS OFF
I'm three episodes down and I think I can put my finger on what is turning so many people off on this.
Every previous Netflix series has started in media res. It's presented the title hero already operating, shows us their powers, introduces their motivations to us. It's only a few episodes later down the line that we learn more about their origins, what brought them to the here-and-now, what is the darkness that is the driving force underneath their good actions.
Iron Fist is not structured at all like this. It's set up like it's a normal weekly-airing serial, starting us off with a hero we know nothing about that we gradually learn about and raising the stakes as the episodes go on - except that it's also trying to be a Netflix series that doesn't deliver steady progression of plot in episode-length formats. It's trying to be all mysterious about Danny's past but they keep reusing the same damn flashback over and over again - it's not more illuminating the fifth time we see it, it's just ridiculous. Any intention of drama is sucked out of it.
And let's talk motivation. As I said, I'm three episodes in and Danny is still basically a cipher to me. His statements about what he "wants" are obtuse, to the point of frustration. He says what he wants, but we have no understanding of the why he wants it, no grasp of the deeper motivations driving him. We have no strong character traits for him other than "knows martial arts and Eastern philosophy" which isn't very deep characterization. He displays a frustration could be borne from any number of things, but there's nothing concrete enough to give us.
If his background is so gosh-darn important, but they want to withhold the flashback episode on us until later, then they need to give us more of a connection between his past and the present. Flashbacks to monks hovering over young Danny doesn't tie into the now the way that Matt Murdock's remembrance of his father's defiant last fight did, the way that Jessica Jones' memories of Kilgrave did, the way that Luke Cage's constant looking over his shoulder worrying about his time at Seagate did.
Maybe this show is going to come together soon (it certainly started to improve in the third episode) but it really doesn't feel like it's going to be as great a series as the previous Netflix ones. I think the blame should be placed on the shoulders of the showrunner more than the cast - the actors seem to be doing fine with what they're being given, it's just that they aren't being given all that much. Special exception goes out to Ward Meachum, who is a bad 1%er pastiche.
Oh yeah, and the opening credits are just embarrassing. The animation doesn't convey to me anything about the character or tone of the show the way previous Marvel Netflix openings did, and the "theme" feels like it came out of a demo reel.
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
"I'd like to challenge the master. It's protocol, I go to your dojo and I challenge the master."
Danny, that sounds like a threat. You walk up to a woman you met in the park who think's you're homeless, after her students leave, and say "I want to fight you". Like, I wouldn't go up to my sensei in my hometown and he like "I want to challenge you" apropo of nothing.
Also, I think that actress mispronounced yamate or my senseis did, is it "Yah-Mah-Tay" or "Yah-Maht" like she said?
Also WOO! Mighty presumptive to see an Asian woman and immediately try to speak Mandarin at her.
Kadoken on
0
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
Also bare in mind
Danny is an idiot
Well meaning but he has no skills in the world that aren't Kung fu based.
He's a very nice well meaning buffoon who things that any problems can be fixed with sweet flip kicks and baddest phrases
+3
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
This is not an anime where you can call out the old man sensei out of nowhere and not look like a (violent) jackass. There are ways to do that like a normal human being. I assume the more grounded logic would mean the writers would think about that.
Btw I am actually enjoying the show even though it is very stupid and silly. So A+ in the faithfulness to comics spirit.
Some of the fights are good to decent. I think the first few fights might put people off because Danny isn't just wrecking the guys, and you don't really see him apply himself in a fight until a few episodes in. The first couple fights are more like Danny just totally outclassing other people so badly that he doesn't really even have to make a fist until someone gets a gun.
I also think people will get the wrong impression from the Colleen and Danny sparring at the dojo. They aren't really fighting each other? It's more like showing off.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
+5
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
They do explain this later. Although, the explanation creates another plot contrivance.
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Yeah, the way Danny acts makes no sense. Him not fully grasping American culture is fine. But I'm pretty sure that stalking people, breaking into their homes, and invading their space isn't tolerated in most cultures. He doesn't act like an outsider exploring a new culture. He acts like a robot who's just learning what it means to be human.
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
They do explain this later. Although, the explanation creates another plot contrivance.
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Yeah, the way Danny acts makes no sense. Him not fully grasping American culture is fine. But I'm pretty sure that stalking people, breaking into their homes, and invading their space isn't tolerated in most cultures. He doesn't act like an outsider exploring a new culture. He acts like a robot who's just learning what it means to be human.
No, he acts like a guy who's kinda desperate to reconnect with his old life and who is powerful enough physically and in his place in society that he doesn't fear the consequences of what he's doing. When he breaks into Joy's place he hides when she comes home. He clearly understands it's wrong, he just needed to see his old home more. There's nothing robotic about that.
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
They do explain this later. Although, the explanation creates another plot contrivance.
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Yeah, the way Danny acts makes no sense. Him not fully grasping American culture is fine. But I'm pretty sure that stalking people, breaking into their homes, and invading their space isn't tolerated in most cultures. He doesn't act like an outsider exploring a new culture. He acts like a robot who's just learning what it means to be human.
No, he acts like a guy who's kinda desperate to reconnect with his old life and who is powerful enough physically and in his place in society that he doesn't fear the consequences of what he's doing. When he breaks into Joy's place he hides when she comes home. He clearly understands it's wrong, he just needed to see his old home more. There's nothing robotic about that.
Kinda like when
Episode 2
he sneaks back to see Joy at her office and she threatens him with calling security, and he's just sitting there all smug. Like "I just beat up your security twice, and the second time they were shooting at me"
He's well aware that there are potential consequences, but he's so grossly overpowered in a modern environment that what regular people threaten him with seems kind of childish, especially when he has, generally, peaceful intentions.
It's off-putting to other characters, for obvious reasons, but he's also pretty peaceful.
I stopped at the first bit of Ep 6 and started watching again with the wife, and on rewatching some stuff is becoming pretty clear.
Danny has no idea how normal people act. He's been raised from the age of 10 by kung fu Jedi to be the chosen one. All of his cultural assumptions are essentiall tropes from the monks and robes style kung fu genre. His first interaction with Colleen, he immediately starts speaking chinese to her when he hears her name (not when he first meets her, just once he thinks she just identified herself as someone like the people he was raised around. His second interaction with her, he challenges the master of the dojo, then cites protocol. Like this is just the done thing.
The scene of him taking over the dojo clearly illustrates that his experience in Kun-L'un was deeply fucked up. People comparing Colleen's teaching methods to Danny's are missing the fact that he physically abused a student after insulting the whole class. In that moment, he was emulating his teachers, because that's the only way he knows to teach. When he's falling off the building, he says his oath to Kun-L'un like it's a protective prayer of some sort. He's been deeply indoctrinated in this culture, which isn't surprising. He came there as a kid after some crazy emotional trauma, had to assimilate to survive and the culture itself is clearly designed on some level to produce zealots.
Danny's characterization makes perfect sense in that light. He's essentially a 10 year old orphan indoctrinated by religious fanatics who is trying to find some sense of normalcy in his old life.
This is not an anime where you can call out the old man sensei out of nowhere and not look like a (violent) jackass. There are ways to do that like a normal human being. I assume the more grounded logic would mean the writers would think about that.
Btw I am actually enjoying the show even though it is very stupid and silly. So A+ in the faithfulness to comics spirit.
I imagine in the anime as hell place he grew up and learned kung fu in it's perfectly normal. I don't think the magical land of Kun Lun is going to be anything but superficially similar to any real world dojo/gym.
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Episode 9 or 10
Listen, mugging people is part of the totally not evil Hand's lifestyle
I'm around episode 5 and I'm enjoying it. The fights seem pretty cool and you can definitely tell the difference between Danny's fighting style and the other Defenders.
Danny was not trained or raised under conditions we would consider humane. This is very, very important to remember for his character.
Ep3:
I'm still working through this but like Ep3 has flashbacks to his time in Kun-L'un which is just him as like a 10 year old kid being beaten by 3 people, one assumes to toughen him up.
That may have been my favorite series of fights in any MCU Netflix series.
Admittedly I'm a sucker for fights that showcase different styles going toe to toe. (Before people start throwing out martial arts movies "that do it better", there's a good chance I've already seen what you're going to suggest)
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
They do explain this later. Although, the explanation creates another plot contrivance.
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Yeah, the way Danny acts makes no sense. Him not fully grasping American culture is fine. But I'm pretty sure that stalking people, breaking into their homes, and invading their space isn't tolerated in most cultures. He doesn't act like an outsider exploring a new culture. He acts like a robot who's just learning what it means to be human.
No, he acts like a guy who's kinda desperate to reconnect with his old life and who is powerful enough physically and in his place in society that he doesn't fear the consequences of what he's doing. When he breaks into Joy's place he hides when she comes home. He clearly understands it's wrong, he just needed to see his old home more. There's nothing robotic about that.
Which is ridiculous. So he's been able to travel all the way from K'un Lun to New York acting like that and he's never faced any consequences like getting arrested or attacked or simply verbally warned for his completely inappropriate behavior to learn that the shit he's doing is not OK?
The show has to bend backwards and twist itself in knots to accommodate for the sheer idiocy and illegality of Danny's actions. Why the hell isn't he arrested? He assaulted several security guards at Rand. They have video of what happened. He pretty much carjacked Ward and threatened Ward's life. It makes no sense for them not to alert the police and press charges against him.
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
They do explain this later. Although, the explanation creates another plot contrivance.
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Yeah, the way Danny acts makes no sense. Him not fully grasping American culture is fine. But I'm pretty sure that stalking people, breaking into their homes, and invading their space isn't tolerated in most cultures. He doesn't act like an outsider exploring a new culture. He acts like a robot who's just learning what it means to be human.
No, he acts like a guy who's kinda desperate to reconnect with his old life and who is powerful enough physically and in his place in society that he doesn't fear the consequences of what he's doing. When he breaks into Joy's place he hides when she comes home. He clearly understands it's wrong, he just needed to see his old home more. There's nothing robotic about that.
Which is ridiculous. So he's been able to travel all the way from K'un Lun to New York acting like that and he's never faced any consequences like getting arrested or attacked or simply verbally warned for his completely inappropriate behavior to learn that the shit he's doing is not OK?
The show has to bend backwards and twist itself in knots to accommodate for the sheer idiocy and illegality of Danny's actions. Why the hell isn't he arrested? He assaulted several security guards at Rand. They have video of what happened. He pretty much carjacked Ward and threatened Ward's life. It makes no sense for them not to alert the police and press charges against him.
Danny already knows it's not okay, he's not a simpleton or some "primitive people" trope. He knows there's consequences, and the consequences of regular people really don't threaten him. By that point they've pissed him off enough that he's just done with the "usual way".
No one's going to welcome the dead friend back and show him around? Fine, he'll do it himself.
Security wants to kill him on sight in his family's business? Fine, doing things the right way was just a formality at this point. He doesn't need to be escorted to the top floor, he already knows the way up.
They explain why Ward does what he does, and who is pulling his strings. And as for the police, he's got nothing but disdain for them throughout, and he tells Danny that his security will kill him if he shows up again. So, he's kind of leaning on more permanent extralegal methods.
+3
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
They do explain this later. Although, the explanation creates another plot contrivance.
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Yeah, the way Danny acts makes no sense. Him not fully grasping American culture is fine. But I'm pretty sure that stalking people, breaking into their homes, and invading their space isn't tolerated in most cultures. He doesn't act like an outsider exploring a new culture. He acts like a robot who's just learning what it means to be human.
No, he acts like a guy who's kinda desperate to reconnect with his old life and who is powerful enough physically and in his place in society that he doesn't fear the consequences of what he's doing. When he breaks into Joy's place he hides when she comes home. He clearly understands it's wrong, he just needed to see his old home more. There's nothing robotic about that.
Which is ridiculous. So he's been able to travel all the way from K'un Lun to New York acting like that and he's never faced any consequences like getting arrested or attacked or simply verbally warned for his completely inappropriate behavior to learn that the shit he's doing is not OK?
The show has to bend backwards and twist itself in knots to accommodate for the sheer idiocy and illegality of Danny's actions. Why the hell isn't he arrested? He assaulted several security guards at Rand. They have video of what happened. He pretty much carjacked Ward and threatened Ward's life. It makes no sense for them not to alert the police and press charges against him.
Danny already knows it's not okay, he's not a simpleton or some "primitive people" trope. He knows there's consequences, and the consequences of regular people really don't threaten him. By that point they've pissed him off enough that he's just done with the "usual way".
No one's going to welcome the dead friend back and show him around? Fine, he'll do it himself.
Security wants to kill him on sight in his family's business? Fine, doing things the right way was just a formality at this point. He doesn't need to be escorted to the top floor, he already knows the way up.
They explain why Ward does what he does, and who is pulling his strings. And as for the police, he's got nothing but disdain for them throughout, and he tells Danny that his security will kill him if he shows up again. So, he's kind of leaning on more permanent extralegal methods.
Except it's not just about the consequences to Danny. He's scaring and threatening other people. The world isn't centered around Danny and what he wants. He beats the shit out of guards who were doing their job. He invades people's privacy and personal space. He scares the shit out of the Meachums and threatens them. At this point, I don't give a shit if Danny doesn't care about the consequences to himself, I think he's a sociopathic asshole for not caring about what his actions are doing to other people.
0
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Also, how and or why is the enemy of the hand, the fist
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
They do explain this later. Although, the explanation creates another plot contrivance.
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Yeah, the way Danny acts makes no sense. Him not fully grasping American culture is fine. But I'm pretty sure that stalking people, breaking into their homes, and invading their space isn't tolerated in most cultures. He doesn't act like an outsider exploring a new culture. He acts like a robot who's just learning what it means to be human.
No, he acts like a guy who's kinda desperate to reconnect with his old life and who is powerful enough physically and in his place in society that he doesn't fear the consequences of what he's doing. When he breaks into Joy's place he hides when she comes home. He clearly understands it's wrong, he just needed to see his old home more. There's nothing robotic about that.
Which is ridiculous. So he's been able to travel all the way from K'un Lun to New York acting like that and he's never faced any consequences like getting arrested or attacked or simply verbally warned for his completely inappropriate behavior to learn that the shit he's doing is not OK?
The show has to bend backwards and twist itself in knots to accommodate for the sheer idiocy and illegality of Danny's actions. Why the hell isn't he arrested? He assaulted several security guards at Rand. They have video of what happened. He pretty much carjacked Ward and threatened Ward's life. It makes no sense for them not to alert the police and press charges against him.
Danny already knows it's not okay, he's not a simpleton or some "primitive people" trope. He knows there's consequences, and the consequences of regular people really don't threaten him. By that point they've pissed him off enough that he's just done with the "usual way".
No one's going to welcome the dead friend back and show him around? Fine, he'll do it himself.
Security wants to kill him on sight in his family's business? Fine, doing things the right way was just a formality at this point. He doesn't need to be escorted to the top floor, he already knows the way up.
They explain why Ward does what he does, and who is pulling his strings. And as for the police, he's got nothing but disdain for them throughout, and he tells Danny that his security will kill him if he shows up again. So, he's kind of leaning on more permanent extralegal methods.
Like seriously, the very first scene basically covers this pretty well. He shows up and asks nicely to see his family. They throw him out like a vagrant. So he comes back because he's not taking no for an answer here. And then when they try and throw him out more forcefully he calmly and as gently as possible gets them out of his way and goes up. And then after they refuse to deal with him, he leaves peacefully. Now you can say that's breaking and entering and assault or something of the like and that's correct legally but there's also a clear logical escalation going on here that doesn't have anything to do with Danny being a robot or not understanding humans or whatever silliness here.
Everything he does is him trying to reconnect with the people he knew and regain his old life and he just escalates as they push back against that goal.
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
They do explain this later. Although, the explanation creates another plot contrivance.
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Yeah, the way Danny acts makes no sense. Him not fully grasping American culture is fine. But I'm pretty sure that stalking people, breaking into their homes, and invading their space isn't tolerated in most cultures. He doesn't act like an outsider exploring a new culture. He acts like a robot who's just learning what it means to be human.
No, he acts like a guy who's kinda desperate to reconnect with his old life and who is powerful enough physically and in his place in society that he doesn't fear the consequences of what he's doing. When he breaks into Joy's place he hides when she comes home. He clearly understands it's wrong, he just needed to see his old home more. There's nothing robotic about that.
Which is ridiculous. So he's been able to travel all the way from K'un Lun to New York acting like that and he's never faced any consequences like getting arrested or attacked or simply verbally warned for his completely inappropriate behavior to learn that the shit he's doing is not OK?
The show has to bend backwards and twist itself in knots to accommodate for the sheer idiocy and illegality of Danny's actions. Why the hell isn't he arrested? He assaulted several security guards at Rand. They have video of what happened. He pretty much carjacked Ward and threatened Ward's life. It makes no sense for them not to alert the police and press charges against him.
Danny already knows it's not okay, he's not a simpleton or some "primitive people" trope. He knows there's consequences, and the consequences of regular people really don't threaten him. By that point they've pissed him off enough that he's just done with the "usual way".
No one's going to welcome the dead friend back and show him around? Fine, he'll do it himself.
Security wants to kill him on sight in his family's business? Fine, doing things the right way was just a formality at this point. He doesn't need to be escorted to the top floor, he already knows the way up.
They explain why Ward does what he does, and who is pulling his strings. And as for the police, he's got nothing but disdain for them throughout, and he tells Danny that his security will kill him if he shows up again. So, he's kind of leaning on more permanent extralegal methods.
Except it's not just about the consequences to Danny. He's scaring and threatening other people. The world isn't centered around Danny and what he wants. He beats the shit out of guards who were doing their job. He invades people's privacy and personal space. He scares the shit out of the Meachums and threatens them. At this point, I don't give a shit if Danny doesn't care about the consequences to himself, I think he's a sociopathic asshole for not caring about what his actions are doing to other people.
Really? He only gets to that point after his only friends, his only connections to his life, just disavowed him, threatened to kill him, and no matter what he does to try to prove who he is they just constantly up their game of fucking with him for no other reason than they think he's going to threaten their position.
He doesn't beat up the guards in the lobby, in fact he very pointedly doesn't attack them. He just gets out of their way as they're attacking him, and disarms them. He doesn't fight them so much as prove that he totally outclasses them and moves through them.
+5
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Ep 4
Randy Dan's tattoo looks like an awful prison house coverup because it's so weirdly asymmetrical and displeasing in its proportions.
Is Colleen teaching her students how to mug people?! Why?! Why aren't one of them the one who gets jumped if it's a training exercise? We used to do that in my dojo but not in public. Have a 2v1 or 3v1 fight that is supposed to simulate a full fight with no punches pulled (to the limit of serious harm like really bad bruises or going for the eyes or something bad like that).
They do explain this later. Although, the explanation creates another plot contrivance.
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
Yeah, the way Danny acts makes no sense. Him not fully grasping American culture is fine. But I'm pretty sure that stalking people, breaking into their homes, and invading their space isn't tolerated in most cultures. He doesn't act like an outsider exploring a new culture. He acts like a robot who's just learning what it means to be human.
No, he acts like a guy who's kinda desperate to reconnect with his old life and who is powerful enough physically and in his place in society that he doesn't fear the consequences of what he's doing. When he breaks into Joy's place he hides when she comes home. He clearly understands it's wrong, he just needed to see his old home more. There's nothing robotic about that.
Which is ridiculous. So he's been able to travel all the way from K'un Lun to New York acting like that and he's never faced any consequences like getting arrested or attacked or simply verbally warned for his completely inappropriate behavior to learn that the shit he's doing is not OK?
The show has to bend backwards and twist itself in knots to accommodate for the sheer idiocy and illegality of Danny's actions. Why the hell isn't he arrested? He assaulted several security guards at Rand. They have video of what happened. He pretty much carjacked Ward and threatened Ward's life. It makes no sense for them not to alert the police and press charges against him.
Danny already knows it's not okay, he's not a simpleton or some "primitive people" trope. He knows there's consequences, and the consequences of regular people really don't threaten him. By that point they've pissed him off enough that he's just done with the "usual way".
No one's going to welcome the dead friend back and show him around? Fine, he'll do it himself.
Security wants to kill him on sight in his family's business? Fine, doing things the right way was just a formality at this point. He doesn't need to be escorted to the top floor, he already knows the way up.
They explain why Ward does what he does, and who is pulling his strings. And as for the police, he's got nothing but disdain for them throughout, and he tells Danny that his security will kill him if he shows up again. So, he's kind of leaning on more permanent extralegal methods.
Like seriously, the very first scene basically covers this pretty well. He shows up and asks nicely to see his family. They throw him out like a vagrant. So he comes back because he's not taking no for an answer here. And then when they try and throw him out more forcefully he calmly and as gently as possible gets them out of his way and goes up. And then after they refuse to deal with him, he leaves peacefully. Now you can say that's breaking and entering and assault or something of the like and that's correct legally but there's also a clear logical escalation going on here that doesn't have anything to do with Danny being a robot or not understanding humans or whatever silliness here.
Everything he does is him trying to reconnect with the people he knew and regain his old life and he just escalates as they push back against that goal.
Maybe look at things from the point of view of Meachum and the people working at Rand? Crazy hobo walks in claiming to own the building and wants meeting with the people who run the company. He's escorted out. He comes back and assault the security. He sneaks up to the office of the Meachums and disrupts their work. He makes an insane claim that he's their long lost friend, who has been presumed dead for 15 years.
If you were in that position. If a crazy person broke into where you worked. If they beat up several of the security guards and snuck up to your office. If they accosted you and made insane claims about a relationship to you. Would you go, "well, technically what that crazy person did was breaking and entering and assault or something, but whatever. I'm sure that was a simple understanding that won't happen again. I didn't feel threatened at all and I won't be looking behind my back for this crazy hobo martial artist when I go home."
KingofMadCows on
+1
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I watched the first episode and fell asleep. Literally. No snark. I really tried to be optimistic. But the writing is bad and Danny Rand is unlikeable and the plot is blaringly obvious. I already know who is really the bad guy and who is just bad-seeming. By the last 10 minutes I was checking to see how much longer I had to watch and then 5 minutes later I nodded off.
This gets one, maybe two more episodes and if it stays the same I'm out. Danny is seriously unlikeable.
+2
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
I watched the first episode and fell asleep. Literally. No snark. I really tried to be optimistic. But the writing is bad and Danny Rand is unlikeable and the plot is blaringly obvious. I already know who is really the bad guy and who is just bad-seeming. By the last 10 minutes I was checking to see how much longer I had to watch and then 5 minutes later I nodded off.
This gets one, maybe two more episodes and if it stays the same I'm out. Danny is seriously unlikeable.
I'd be curious about your guesses here because, imo, there is literally not enough revealed in the first episode to know that.
Posts
There was a movie that dealt with that.
The ending to one plotline was laughably bad while the ending to another was pretty awesome.
Knowing nothing about Iron Fist was probably the reason I liked the show in general since the mystery of what he is and why he left Kun Lun is a pretty good hook. Combine that with a bunch of twists and turns from the Meachums, Colleen, and others made for an interesting season overall. Definitely enough for me to binge watch it in a day. I'll probably post more in depth when I'm not on my phone.
I'd put it on par with DD.
Season 2, if it gets one, is now set up to be very interesting, though. Real freaking consequences happen as a result of this season.
General spoiler
Every previous Netflix series has started in media res. It's presented the title hero already operating, shows us their powers, introduces their motivations to us. It's only a few episodes later down the line that we learn more about their origins, what brought them to the here-and-now, what is the darkness that is the driving force underneath their good actions.
Iron Fist is not structured at all like this. It's set up like it's a normal weekly-airing serial, starting us off with a hero we know nothing about that we gradually learn about and raising the stakes as the episodes go on - except that it's also trying to be a Netflix series that doesn't deliver steady progression of plot in episode-length formats. It's trying to be all mysterious about Danny's past but they keep reusing the same damn flashback over and over again - it's not more illuminating the fifth time we see it, it's just ridiculous. Any intention of drama is sucked out of it.
And let's talk motivation. As I said, I'm three episodes in and Danny is still basically a cipher to me. His statements about what he "wants" are obtuse, to the point of frustration. He says what he wants, but we have no understanding of the why he wants it, no grasp of the deeper motivations driving him. We have no strong character traits for him other than "knows martial arts and Eastern philosophy" which isn't very deep characterization. He displays a frustration could be borne from any number of things, but there's nothing concrete enough to give us.
If his background is so gosh-darn important, but they want to withhold the flashback episode on us until later, then they need to give us more of a connection between his past and the present. Flashbacks to monks hovering over young Danny doesn't tie into the now the way that Matt Murdock's remembrance of his father's defiant last fight did, the way that Jessica Jones' memories of Kilgrave did, the way that Luke Cage's constant looking over his shoulder worrying about his time at Seagate did.
Maybe this show is going to come together soon (it certainly started to improve in the third episode) but it really doesn't feel like it's going to be as great a series as the previous Netflix ones. I think the blame should be placed on the shoulders of the showrunner more than the cast - the actors seem to be doing fine with what they're being given, it's just that they aren't being given all that much. Special exception goes out to Ward Meachum, who is a bad 1%er pastiche.
Oh yeah, and the opening credits are just embarrassing. The animation doesn't convey to me anything about the character or tone of the show the way previous Marvel Netflix openings did, and the "theme" feels like it came out of a demo reel.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Danny, that sounds like a threat. You walk up to a woman you met in the park who think's you're homeless, after her students leave, and say "I want to fight you". Like, I wouldn't go up to my sensei in my hometown and he like "I want to challenge you" apropo of nothing.
Also, I think that actress mispronounced yamate or my senseis did, is it "Yah-Mah-Tay" or "Yah-Maht" like she said?
Also WOO! Mighty presumptive to see an Asian woman and immediately try to speak Mandarin at her.
They learn to fight and they fight.
Danny is an idiot
Well meaning but he has no skills in the world that aren't Kung fu based.
He's a very nice well meaning buffoon who things that any problems can be fixed with sweet flip kicks and baddest phrases
Yes. Indeed they do. Indeed I did.
This is not an anime where you can call out the old man sensei out of nowhere and not look like a (violent) jackass. There are ways to do that like a normal human being. I assume the more grounded logic would mean the writers would think about that.
Btw I am actually enjoying the show even though it is very stupid and silly. So A+ in the faithfulness to comics spirit.
I also think people will get the wrong impression from the Colleen and Danny sparring at the dojo. They aren't really fighting each other? It's more like showing off.
It's a live-action adaptation of a comic book superhero raised by warrior monks.
I don't care. The point is Iron Fist was acting stupid, moreso than his naivety should cover. That could have come across way better.
Edit: it might be just from distracting me from staying up until 6 writing notes, but I think I really like this show.
They do explain this later. Although, the explanation creates another plot contrivance.
Yeah, the way Danny acts makes no sense. Him not fully grasping American culture is fine. But I'm pretty sure that stalking people, breaking into their homes, and invading their space isn't tolerated in most cultures. He doesn't act like an outsider exploring a new culture. He acts like a robot who's just learning what it means to be human.
No, he acts like a guy who's kinda desperate to reconnect with his old life and who is powerful enough physically and in his place in society that he doesn't fear the consequences of what he's doing. When he breaks into Joy's place he hides when she comes home. He clearly understands it's wrong, he just needed to see his old home more. There's nothing robotic about that.
Kinda like when
Episode 2
It's off-putting to other characters, for obvious reasons, but he's also pretty peaceful.
The scene of him taking over the dojo clearly illustrates that his experience in Kun-L'un was deeply fucked up. People comparing Colleen's teaching methods to Danny's are missing the fact that he physically abused a student after insulting the whole class. In that moment, he was emulating his teachers, because that's the only way he knows to teach. When he's falling off the building, he says his oath to Kun-L'un like it's a protective prayer of some sort. He's been deeply indoctrinated in this culture, which isn't surprising. He came there as a kid after some crazy emotional trauma, had to assimilate to survive and the culture itself is clearly designed on some level to produce zealots.
Danny's characterization makes perfect sense in that light. He's essentially a 10 year old orphan indoctrinated by religious fanatics who is trying to find some sense of normalcy in his old life.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
he never pulls off his own arms while trying to remove the top of a tank
:. not anime this is basic formal logic
I imagine in the anime as hell place he grew up and learned kung fu in it's perfectly normal. I don't think the magical land of Kun Lun is going to be anything but superficially similar to any real world dojo/gym.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Episode 9 or 10
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Ep3:
That guy has been through some fucked up shit.
Episode 3
Also this illegal fight ring seems poorly administered.
How do they track bets?
Admittedly I'm a sucker for fights that showcase different styles going toe to toe. (Before people start throwing out martial arts movies "that do it better", there's a good chance I've already seen what you're going to suggest)
Drunken Boxing vs Kung Fu, and Wu shu vs Kendo.
Which is ridiculous. So he's been able to travel all the way from K'un Lun to New York acting like that and he's never faced any consequences like getting arrested or attacked or simply verbally warned for his completely inappropriate behavior to learn that the shit he's doing is not OK?
The show has to bend backwards and twist itself in knots to accommodate for the sheer idiocy and illegality of Danny's actions. Why the hell isn't he arrested? He assaulted several security guards at Rand. They have video of what happened. He pretty much carjacked Ward and threatened Ward's life. It makes no sense for them not to alert the police and press charges against him.
Danny already knows it's not okay, he's not a simpleton or some "primitive people" trope. He knows there's consequences, and the consequences of regular people really don't threaten him. By that point they've pissed him off enough that he's just done with the "usual way".
No one's going to welcome the dead friend back and show him around? Fine, he'll do it himself.
Security wants to kill him on sight in his family's business? Fine, doing things the right way was just a formality at this point. He doesn't need to be escorted to the top floor, he already knows the way up.
They explain why Ward does what he does, and who is pulling his strings. And as for the police, he's got nothing but disdain for them throughout, and he tells Danny that his security will kill him if he shows up again. So, he's kind of leaning on more permanent extralegal methods.
Randy Dan gonna mess these axe fools up
Except it's not just about the consequences to Danny. He's scaring and threatening other people. The world isn't centered around Danny and what he wants. He beats the shit out of guards who were doing their job. He invades people's privacy and personal space. He scares the shit out of the Meachums and threatens them. At this point, I don't give a shit if Danny doesn't care about the consequences to himself, I think he's a sociopathic asshole for not caring about what his actions are doing to other people.
Isn't the true enemy of the hand the butt
Like seriously, the very first scene basically covers this pretty well. He shows up and asks nicely to see his family. They throw him out like a vagrant. So he comes back because he's not taking no for an answer here. And then when they try and throw him out more forcefully he calmly and as gently as possible gets them out of his way and goes up. And then after they refuse to deal with him, he leaves peacefully. Now you can say that's breaking and entering and assault or something of the like and that's correct legally but there's also a clear logical escalation going on here that doesn't have anything to do with Danny being a robot or not understanding humans or whatever silliness here.
Everything he does is him trying to reconnect with the people he knew and regain his old life and he just escalates as they push back against that goal.
Really? He only gets to that point after his only friends, his only connections to his life, just disavowed him, threatened to kill him, and no matter what he does to try to prove who he is they just constantly up their game of fucking with him for no other reason than they think he's going to threaten their position.
He doesn't beat up the guards in the lobby, in fact he very pointedly doesn't attack them. He just gets out of their way as they're attacking him, and disarms them. He doesn't fight them so much as prove that he totally outclasses them and moves through them.
Maybe look at things from the point of view of Meachum and the people working at Rand? Crazy hobo walks in claiming to own the building and wants meeting with the people who run the company. He's escorted out. He comes back and assault the security. He sneaks up to the office of the Meachums and disrupts their work. He makes an insane claim that he's their long lost friend, who has been presumed dead for 15 years.
If you were in that position. If a crazy person broke into where you worked. If they beat up several of the security guards and snuck up to your office. If they accosted you and made insane claims about a relationship to you. Would you go, "well, technically what that crazy person did was breaking and entering and assault or something, but whatever. I'm sure that was a simple understanding that won't happen again. I didn't feel threatened at all and I won't be looking behind my back for this crazy hobo martial artist when I go home."
This gets one, maybe two more episodes and if it stays the same I'm out. Danny is seriously unlikeable.
I'd be curious about your guesses here because, imo, there is literally not enough revealed in the first episode to know that.