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The Mysterious Case of Juan "Hungrybox" Debiedma [chat]

A Kobold's KoboldA Kobold's Kobold He/HimMississippiRegistered User regular
I messaged shryke and he said it was okay so I'm posting [chat] now.

Okay, so the best player in all of 2001's Super Smash Brothers Melee for the Nintendo Game Cube is [A]rmada. I think that's almost without contention, though events that have occurred tonight might start to overturn that for the moment.

Because tonight was The Big House 7, a part of the legendary Big House* yearly tournament series, which is one of the cornerstones of the Super Smash Brothers tournament scene. And Hungrybox won from losers, which is not surprising. He also played a gauntlet of foxes to get there, which is also not surprising. Hbox plays Jigglypuff, and Jigg's worst matchup is, bar none, Fox.

What's interesting is that Hbox played Plup, who was fresh off of defeating Armada and thus becoming the second godslayer. Plup is nowadays known mostly for his Sheik play, although Plup's a bit of a character generalist, having a Samus**, Luigi, Falco, and Fox under his belt. Sheik has a tough time with Puff because of the fact that Puff's so mobile in the air AND how long some of Puff's aerials are AND how badly Sheik deals with crouching*** characters, which Jiggs can expoit pretty well. So, naturally, Plup chose Fox.

And got destroyed for it, going 3-1'd twice and finishing off grand finals set one with a game where he took zero stocks in a game where you are expected to take four. Plup, despite defeating Armada handily that very same day, was completely outclassed.

So what? Setting aside that Melee is ~a decade-old children's party game~, I think there's people who are going to be going Fox against Hbox and getting bodied until the end of goddamn time — there are dedicated Fox mains, after all. See: Leffen, who was the person to knock Hbox into loser's in the first place.

The established reason for why Hbox can beat all these foxes even when he's at a severe disadvantage is that he just knows the matchup that well. He's played hundreds, if not thousands, of Foxes. Of all stipes, of all playstyles, of all qualities. And he's beaten them all. He might not always win against them all the time — see his sets with Mango — but nobody knows Fox's strengths and weaknesses better than Hbox. And there's no analogue for Hbox within the meta — there's several top Foxes, but there's only one top Puff. Guys like Prince Abu don't compare. There's this profound gap in matchup knowledge; how many Foxes did Hbox face in order to get to you, hypothetical top player? A lot. And how many top Puffs did you have to face in order for you to face him? Probably none.

But I also sense there's this profound… hubris in switching to Fox against Hbox. Especially tonight. Because Hbox eliminated Armada at fourth. And Armada always goes Fox against Hbox. And even though Armada's been playing a lot more Peach lately, it's not an uncontroversial opinion to say that Armada's the best Fox in the world. If Armada couldn't do it, and Leffen couldn't do it — even when he did do it in the very same tournament, then what makes this hypothetical top player think that they could have a better shot at defeating Hbox by switching to the character that he has the most experience with, by far? Why, mortal, do you think you can challenge a god with the same tools that failed to bring him down thousands of times before?

tldr: tier lists are useless and you can play any mid tier and still make bank as long as you know the match-ups well enough
*yes the big house was originally played at the university of michigan why do you ask

**Plup was originally known as a Samus main and is still widely considered to be the best Samus player even though he doesn't play her much any more.

***Or, well, crouch cancelling characters. Characters up until a certain percent in Melee can cancel a certain amount of knockback by just crouching.

Also this entire thread is a massive oversimplification, don't at me

Switch Friend Code: SW-3011-6091-2364
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Posts

  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Yes, yes Registered User regular
    Man, Hbox's post success depression in that interview hit me hard.

    The dude is clearly at least second best in the world and everyone just wants the underdog story. All those mango fans riding the old hbox hate.

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    It may just be a beer commercial, but it got me right in the feels:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfpatqyujM0

    I think it's rather sweet.

  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Think we found the next Fyre Festival
    A firm offering X-rated holidays has brazenly advertised packages featuring orgies with prostitutes on a ' drug friendly' Colombian island.

    Two videos advertising the resort show men arriving for unlimited sex, drugs and alcohol.

    One erotic video promoting the trips - described as a 'sex island experience' - shows a man arriving at a villa, where he is greeted by scantily clad girls.

    Another shows a balding man walking into his room to discover four naked women lying face down on his bed.

    It also shows dozens of bikini-clad models gyrating on a boat, while a caption on the screen boasts: 'Unlimited sex included'.

    On the second day of the four-day sex fest clients will have half an hour with 16 women at once - and organisers say customers will be able to find their 'true self'.

    The holidays are offered by a group named the Good Girls Company, which is advertising a trip between November 24 and 27.

    Other scenes in the video include a man eating a meal off the naked body of a female star, while a woman also features in a fetish version of a French maid's outfit.

    On its website, the firm says clients will be able to 'live life as you always imagined', and describes it as 'a discreet and beautiful environment for men to fulfill their wildest fantasies'.

    Sixty prostitutes will compete for the attention of 30 men on the trip, the company has revealed.

    The Good Girls Company explained on social media: "We will have 60 hot women serving 30 clients; there will be two women for each of them (available) 24 hours a day. The price includes all meals these days."

    The "sex island" is off the coast of Cartagena on the north coast of Colombia.

    An itinerary for the holiday tells prospective tourists that there will be a sex session on the first day in which any customer can participate.

    The following day offers each client half an hour with 16 girls at once, while the third and fourth days feature parties on a luxury yacht for 100 people, complete with DJ.

    Although prostitution is not illegal in Colombia, pimping is a crime, a law services advertised in the video would seem to fall foul of.

    Add-ons advertised on the group's website include erotic massages and threesomes, as well as horse riding and golf for those who don't want to spend all their time in the bedroom.

    bloodyroarxx on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    broodax imperiate remains my favorite PA strip, though it's much much better if you include part 2. but part 1 is still great.

    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    This chat post is for @Element Brian to meditate upon.

    I don't rank with torbs.

  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    I could call magic pros and get them to tell similar stories.

    Scrubs chase the meta. Pros define it.

  • DynagripDynagrip Break me a million hearts HoustonRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Wish i was sleepy, what with having to work tomorrow and everything. Well, sort of work.blast week and all that

  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    Oh I left one part out. The best break it as it's defined.

  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    yes yes yes

    steam_sig.png
  • A Kobold's KoboldA Kobold's Kobold He/Him MississippiRegistered User regular
    Man, Hbox's post success depression in that interview hit me hard.

    The dude is clearly at least second best in the world and everyone just wants the underdog story. All those mango fans riding the old hbox hate.

    I don't think they were Mango fans as much as they were Plup fans, however fairweather they are. Though (I assume) you know more about the scene than I do, do you think that all those people spamming plupW in the Twitch chat are Mango fans?

    Also he just battled through a sea of foxes only to be the Big Bad in the tragic tale of Plup's Big House story. This is totally understandable.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-3011-6091-2364
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    i jumped out of a car again tonight.

    i thought "eh i can roll this it is slower than the ones that hurt"

    steam_sig.png
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    I rank people based on their interpretation of this wisdom

    You aren't doing anything particular task at maximum efficiency, so before you are... how do you know it's the best or suboptimal? How do you KNOW.

    Anyone who isn't critical of themselves or the process won't improve and can be disregarded no matter their talent level.

    Applies to business or games or actually personal relationships too because it is an inflexible and grating personality trait.

  • A Kobold's KoboldA Kobold's Kobold He/Him MississippiRegistered User regular
    Elki wrote: »

    its official

    everything is gay™ now

    Switch Friend Code: SW-3011-6091-2364
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    i jumped out of a car again tonight.

    i thought "eh i can roll this it is slower than the ones that hurt"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5feZp13agd4

    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    Think we found the next Fyre Festival
    A firm offering X-rated holidays has brazenly advertised packages featuring orgies with prostitutes on a ' drug friendly' Colombian island.

    Two videos advertising the resort show men arriving for unlimited sex, drugs and alcohol.

    One erotic video promoting the trips - described as a 'sex island experience' - shows a man arriving at a villa, where he is greeted by scantily clad girls.

    Another shows a balding man walking into his room to discover four naked women lying face down on his bed.

    It also shows dozens of bikini-clad models gyrating on a boat, while a caption on the screen boasts: 'Unlimited sex included'.

    On the second day of the four-day sex fest clients will have half an hour with 16 women at once - and organisers say customers will be able to find their 'true self'.

    The holidays are offered by a group named the Good Girls Company, which is advertising a trip between November 24 and 27.

    Other scenes in the video include a man eating a meal off the naked body of a female star, while a woman also features in a fetish version of a French maid's outfit.

    On its website, the firm says clients will be able to 'live life as you always imagined', and describes it as 'a discreet and beautiful environment for men to fulfill their wildest fantasies'.

    Sixty prostitutes will compete for the attention of 30 men on the trip, the company has revealed.

    The Good Girls Company explained on social media: "We will have 60 hot women serving 30 clients; there will be two women for each of them (available) 24 hours a day. The price includes all meals these days."

    The "sex island" is off the coast of Cartagena on the north coast of Colombia.

    An itinerary for the holiday tells prospective tourists that there will be a sex session on the first day in which any customer can participate.

    The following day offers each client half an hour with 16 girls at once, while the third and fourth days feature parties on a luxury yacht for 100 people, complete with DJ.

    Although prostitution is not illegal in Colombia, pimping is a crime, a law services advertised in the video would seem to fall foul of.

    Add-ons advertised on the group's website include erotic massages and threesomes, as well as horse riding and golf for those who don't want to spend all their time in the bedroom.


    Sounds like someone needs a shitload of kidneys fast.

    nibXTE7.png
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    i jumped out of a car again tonight.

    i thought "eh i can roll this it is slower than the ones that hurt"

    I did it at 40ish miles. It hurt but not too bad.

  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    i jumped out of a car again tonight.

    i thought "eh i can roll this it is slower than the ones that hurt"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5feZp13agd4

    rolling is the key

    steam_sig.png
  • A Kobold's KoboldA Kobold's Kobold He/Him MississippiRegistered User regular
    i don't think my titles changing any time soon

    Switch Friend Code: SW-3011-6091-2364
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    i jumped out of a car again tonight.

    i thought "eh i can roll this it is slower than the ones that hurt"

    I did it at 40ish miles. It hurt but not too bad.

    when you hear the rush of wind

    and just say "eh. . .fuck it"

    steam_sig.png
  • LudiousLudious I just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered User regular
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    I thought you were better, DUE. I'm not watching this again.

  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    i jumped out of a car again tonight.

    i thought "eh i can roll this it is slower than the ones that hurt"

    Why?

    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    DUE why did the car require jumping out of

    nibXTE7.png
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    i jumped out of a car again tonight.

    i thought "eh i can roll this it is slower than the ones that hurt"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5feZp13agd4

    rolling is the key

    Dark souls taught me that

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    castle knows. when you open the door and hear that sound it's like oh shit i can't not jump out so. . .

    then you're hitting asphalt

    steam_sig.png
  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Yes, yes Registered User regular
    Man, Hbox's post success depression in that interview hit me hard.

    The dude is clearly at least second best in the world and everyone just wants the underdog story. All those mango fans riding the old hbox hate.

    I don't think they were Mango fans as much as they were Plup fans, however fairweather they are. Though (I assume) you know more about the scene than I do, do you think that all those people spamming plupW in the Twitch chat are Mango fans?

    Also he just battled through a sea of foxes only to be the Big Bad in the tragic tale of Plup's Big House story. This is totally understandable.

    Plup and Hbox are both from Florida. Plup is his dude. It's hard to bat down Plup's dreams, the residual and perpetual 5th place winner.

    That said, the vast majority of people who go to melee events are mango fans. And mango fans hate hbox. Melee viewers tend to only be interested in how super ballsy players are in their offense. People try to talk about how Plup is the best Sheik in the world because he's very aggressive and utilizes a lot of Sheik's speed. M2K, another player in the Top 4, pretty consistently beats Plup with his Sheik but people regard M2K as being campy or lame, etc.

    They want high octane ballsy melee because they think it pumps up viewership. I don't doubt there are a ton of Plup fans, as Plup is a great guy and has a very wide roster, making it easy to root for him if you enjoy any of his edge character plays (going into majors as Luigi or Samus, etc.)

    but the blind hatred of hbox stems way back to Mango and Hbox having beef in the way way back. Also I don't know if I know more about the scene. I'm just a humble melee fan.

  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    DUE why did the car require jumping out of

    i'm lonely.

    steam_sig.png
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    No, it was a profoundly stupid thing to do and I do everything in a rush or not at all. I've did a lot of stupid daredevil shit when I was younger.

  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Yes, yes Registered User regular
    I wouldn't jump out of an entirely immobile car, let alone one traveling quickly.

  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Due will you please explain

  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    i jumped out of a car again tonight.

    i thought "eh i can roll this it is slower than the ones that hurt"

    I did it at 40ish miles. It hurt but not too bad.

    it's real weird how the worst part is the jump

    steam_sig.png
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited October 2017
    Organichu wrote: »
    Due will you please explain
    i convinced a girl to come see me. also hold up we gottaa buy beer. Then she was like let's talk about how you feel and i jumped out of the car

    DasUberEdward on
    steam_sig.png
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    Go to sleep.

  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Yes, yes Registered User regular
    That would have been real awkward if you were driving

  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    there is not really a satisfactory answer here

    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    None of these girls will text me back and i'm like PLEASE LET ME BOYFRIEND YOU

    steam_sig.png
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    I'm not even judging you gotta live your life just there is almost no 'good' reason to jump out of a car

    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
This discussion has been closed.