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ahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
One of the babies killed was two.
That's the same age as my daughter.
Who is currently cuddling on my lap because she heard a loud bang outside. It's fireworks season down here right now. So I'm going to be holding my scared baby tonight while my neighbors set off explosions.
And I'm still going to be grateful for where I live.
NBC is also reporting that a local (not part of the church) fired at the guy, possibly wounding him, they are still investigating how he was killed, but it sounds like it was what drove him off.
Expect Fox and NRA to constantly talk about this one point and not the two dozen deaths in 3... 2... 1...
Local shot at him after he left as he was driving off. Did not “drive him off”
Also in order for guns to be an effective deterrent to sudden mass shootings, ie in order to stop the shooter almost immediately or at least before he manages to kill like 10+ people, almost everyone would have to not only own a gun but have a gun on them at all times
Setting aside that having to carry a fucking gun around all the time as a basic safety standard is fucking inconvenient as shit and stupid, that much gun saturation will make every road rage incident, every fight, every loud noise, a potential flashpoint for violent death to fly in every direction. You put a gun in the hands of every American, you'll maybe stop mass shootings, or lower the numbers, but you will 100% send gun hommicide/accident rates in general skyrocketing
It's a collective madness
It’s actually worse than that. Guns, like any weapon, are useless when holstered. The person who draws first wins. And in mass shooting or really any shooting except the rare mutual gunfight. The person who draws first is not the innocent.
In order to prevent mass shootings people would have to go around with their guns drawn, ready to shoot anyone who they thought was going to fire.
This line of argument is also not particularly useful, because it severely mischaracterizes the scenarios put forth by pro-carry advocates. Their angle is that a shooter can be countered, not prevented altogether.
Does that not effectively ruin their argument; some people should die so not all people die? Instead of robust firearm laws, that keep guns out of people's hands, so no one dies? ( I get this a simplistic way of looking at it, but for a given event, it's hard to argue that if no gun, no mass shooting)
If the initial perspective is that all guns must be legal, then their angle of stopping incidents before they progress is the best they've got.
US federal law prohibits possession of firearms by those who have been dishonorably discharged per the Gun Control Act of 1968.
This is why I feel like it's a cultural shift that's needed. The culture of gun ownership and approaches to it mean pretty much any laws like this will basically go ignored. He had posts of his guns on Facebook so it's possible even he didn't know he was restricted from owning them. Unless it was an extremely recent discharge and those photos predate it
The discharge was in 2014, when he faced court martial (unknown what for).
I know this is all speculation at this stage, but if he was a proud gun owner after that point was he willfully ignoring the law or were guns just so much a part of his identity and the culture around him that neither he nor anybody else around him even recognised his ownership as being criminal?
I think that's taking it a little far. Despite what the shooter may have believed, those around him were required by law to do their due diligence. They were the ones that could have stopped a willing criminal, and either by turning a blind eye or through carelessness they may have furnished him with the implements of his crime.
How many people even know about this law though? That's what I'm saying. It's a small town and nobody seemed to recognise that a dishonourably discharged individual cannot own guns. Neither law enforcement or whoever sold him the guns did anything about it. My argument would be that it's not a case of this guy slipping through the cracks, but a systemic and cultural attitude towards guns which allows for that slipperiness
FFLs are required to perform background checks in the State of Texas. It would have definitely been flagged.
If whoever sold him the weapons, or gave them to him, broke the law, I hope they're punished severely for it. But it feels like in my cynical guts it'll be a fine or something
The way I understand it, the law works like this: when you submit a background check request on someone to see if they're prohibited from purchasing a firearm, there's a time limit on that request to be fulfilled. If you don't get the background check back before the time limit, then you give them the gun anyway.
Yes, I realize that's the opposite of how it should work.
Yeah, this is no good. To add, this is also the kind of problem you can attack from both ends: it's the perfect kind of thing to add modern automation to on the database side (Watson, can Dominik Puskás legally buy a gun?), and no reasonable person should be unwilling to wait for a background check to complete if one is required.
It is explicitly illegal for the ATF to use computers for that purpose. Public Law 99-308
Then that's the dumbest thing I've heard in the past three months, and it should be removed immediately.
US federal law prohibits possession of firearms by those who have been dishonorably discharged per the Gun Control Act of 1968.
This is why I feel like it's a cultural shift that's needed. The culture of gun ownership and approaches to it mean pretty much any laws like this will basically go ignored. He had posts of his guns on Facebook so it's possible even he didn't know he was restricted from owning them. Unless it was an extremely recent discharge and those photos predate it
The discharge was in 2014, when he faced court martial (unknown what for).
I know this is all speculation at this stage, but if he was a proud gun owner after that point was he willfully ignoring the law or were guns just so much a part of his identity and the culture around him that neither he nor anybody else around him even recognised his ownership as being criminal?
I think that's taking it a little far. Despite what the shooter may have believed, those around him were required by law to do their due diligence. They were the ones that could have stopped a willing criminal, and either by turning a blind eye or through carelessness they may have furnished him with the implements of his crime.
How many people even know about this law though? That's what I'm saying. It's a small town and nobody seemed to recognise that a dishonourably discharged individual cannot own guns. Neither law enforcement or whoever sold him the guns did anything about it. My argument would be that it's not a case of this guy slipping through the cracks, but a systemic and cultural attitude towards guns which allows for that slipperiness
FFLs are required to perform background checks in the State of Texas. It would have definitely been flagged.
Which is why people use Craigslist.
Also true, but not un-actionable. I think a popular position for some time has been to make the NICS database readily accessible by individuals for private sales, which would make them on-par with what FFL holders use. I can't think of a good reason why that's not technically possible in the modern day.
Technical constraints have never been the problem.
To avoid a misunderstanding, can you expand on this?
So another depressing statistic. Two of the top 5 deadliest mass shootings in modern US history have happened in the last 35 days and each one was carried out by a lone gunman. Of course, the shitheads at the NRA are just going to claim we need more fucking guns to solve the problem, even though what we know about this one is that the shooter shouldn't have had access to a gun period. Oh, and the GOP and conservatives are going to send useless has thoughts and prayers to the victims, instead of telling the NRA to fuck off and reign in our bullshit gun culture.
Honestly, the whole thing disgusts me. How many more people will have to die before it becomes apparent that more fucking guns don't won't prevent mass shootings like this. If anything they'll create more. I'm also going to be disgusted that the fucking NRA, the fucking GOP and the fucking right wing media will focus on how a local resident confronted a the gunman with a rifle. They'll just ignore the fact that that did fuck all for the victims that had already be shot. BTW has any bothered to confirm if that resident's action did a damn bit of good because it sounds like he shot the fucker after he was planning on leavings?
NBC is also reporting that a local (not part of the church) fired at the guy, possibly wounding him, they are still investigating how he was killed, but it sounds like it was what drove him off.
Expect Fox and NRA to constantly talk about this one point and not the two dozen deaths in 3... 2... 1...
Local shot at him after he left as he was driving off. Did not “drive him off”
A local resident confronted the gunman after the shooting began, "grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect," Martin said.
The gunman dropped the rifle and then fled with the resident in pursuit, he said.
To be completely fair, the timeline on events is still pretty dang murky. Even the BBC says that a local resident shot back at the shooter before he drove off...but also, in another article, that the local resident shot back while the shooter was driving away.
EDIT -
So, apparently, this is the latest word (from the BBC):
As the gunman left the church, a local citizen grabbed his own rifle and began shooting at the suspect, who then dropped his weapon and fled in a vehicle.
(...)
Police found the man dead in his car, but it is unclear if he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or from injuries received when fired on by the local citizen. The car contained several weapons.
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
NBC is also reporting that a local (not part of the church) fired at the guy, possibly wounding him, they are still investigating how he was killed, but it sounds like it was what drove him off.
Expect Fox and NRA to constantly talk about this one point and not the two dozen deaths in 3... 2... 1...
Local shot at him after he left as he was driving off. Did not “drive him off”
A local resident confronted the gunman after the shooting began, "grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect," Martin said.
The gunman dropped the rifle and then fled with the resident in pursuit, he said.
To be completely fair, the timeline on events is still pretty dang murky. Even the BBC says that a local resident shot back at the shooter before he drove off...but also, in another article, that the local resident shot back while the shooter was driving away.
EDIT -
So, apparently, this is the latest word (from the BBC):
As the gunman left the church, a local citizen grabbed his own rifle and began shooting at the suspect, who then dropped his weapon and fled in a vehicle.
(...)
Police found the man dead in his car, but it is unclear if he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or from injuries received when fired on by the local citizen. The car contained several weapons.
I have no doubt the story will change as more facts are discovered. My point is that tomorrow, there’s going to be a baker’s dozen of stories on Fox and the NRA talking about the “good guy with a gun” and downplaying or even straight ignoring the amount of casualties or the fifty things that could have gone wrong with armed civilians during an active shooter situation.
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NBC is also reporting that a local (not part of the church) fired at the guy, possibly wounding him, they are still investigating how he was killed, but it sounds like it was what drove him off.
Expect Fox and NRA to constantly talk about this one point and not the two dozen deaths in 3... 2... 1...
Local shot at him after he left as he was driving off. Did not “drive him off”
A local resident confronted the gunman after the shooting began, "grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect," Martin said.
The gunman dropped the rifle and then fled with the resident in pursuit, he said.
To be completely fair, the timeline on events is still pretty dang murky. Even the BBC says that a local resident shot back at the shooter before he drove off...but also, in another article, that the local resident shot back while the shooter was driving away.
EDIT -
So, apparently, this is the latest word (from the BBC):
As the gunman left the church, a local citizen grabbed his own rifle and began shooting at the suspect, who then dropped his weapon and fled in a vehicle.
(...)
Police found the man dead in his car, but it is unclear if he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound or from injuries received when fired on by the local citizen. The car contained several weapons.
I have no doubt the story will change as more facts are discovered. My point is that tomorrow, there’s going to be a baker’s dozen of stories on Fox and the NRA talking about the “good guy with a gun” and downplaying or even straight ignoring the amount of casualties or the fifty things that could have gone wrong with armed civilians during an active shooter situation.
Sorry, I should have specified that I was addressing both your post and Goumindong's (about whether the shooter was done with the shooting and driving off to escape reprisal or if the counter-shots were what prompted the shooter to flee).
At this point, it's pretty much a dishearteningly foregone conclusion that Fox, the NRA, and any other news agency that listens to the latter are going to be spouting the "good guy with a gun" narrative (weren't the chair-warriors saying those things in relation to the Las Vegas shooting, too? And that situation was even worse off for return-fire than what happened in Sutherland Springs). I'm already seeing it in my Facebook feed (a few of my friends have been posting and getting replies from their friends along the lines of "That's why I have a CPL and why I conceal carry all the time...and if I was there, I'd be shooting back as soon as I heard shots!").
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I'm past exhaustion, past outrage, past sadness on this stuff.
It's just. "Yup. And... yup, there's the predictable response. And there's the words everyone says every time. There's the same argument about One Good Man With A Gun. There's the usual hand-wringing about making this a political thing. Mmhm." and then I tune out. The most feeling I have is a vague sense of distress at my own apathy.
So another depressing statistic. Two of the top 5 deadliest mass shootings in modern US history have happened in the last 35 days and each one was carried out by a lone gunman. Of course, the shitheads at the NRA are just going to claim we need more fucking guns to solve the problem, even though what we know about this one is that the shooter shouldn't have had access to a gun period. Oh, and the GOP and conservatives are going to send useless has thoughts and prayers to the victims, instead of telling the NRA to fuck off and reign in our bullshit gun culture.
Honestly, the whole thing disgusts me. How many more people will have to die before it becomes apparent that more fucking guns don't won't prevent mass shootings like this. If anything they'll create more. I'm also going to be disgusted that the fucking NRA, the fucking GOP and the fucking right wing media will focus on how a local resident confronted a the gunman with a rifle. They'll just ignore the fact that that did fuck all for the victims that had already be shot. BTW has any bothered to confirm if that resident's action did a damn bit of good because it sounds like he shot the fucker after he was planning on leavings?
Also it knocks Columbine out of the top 10. At the time it was something that effected every high schooler in America pretty substantially, and not just because of increased security.
And now this won't be one of the top 25 things people remember about 2017
I'll put it bluntly. I do not trust anybody that isn't extensively trained for this type of situation* to handle themselves well. A Good Man With a Gun is just as likely to make the situation worse as to make it better, at best. At least if there is only one shooter, authorities can figure out what is going on. If there are two (or more) shooters then suddenly everything is just way, way more complicated. I grew up in San Antonio, and gun culture is a real thing. I couldn't understand why my mother had a problem with having a gun in the house (which we did for a short time) because guns were awesome and what if somebody attacked us? As I have grown older and seen more and more what firearms can do, I really do understand. We glorify guns and violence in the USA to an absurd degree. I have no idea how we can fix it, but this is something we as a country need to figure out. Until we do, we'll just keep having these tragedies, and it will always be "too soon" since the last tragedy to take any action to fix it because they happen practically every day. In other nations, if something happens where even one person gets shot, it is a big deal. In the USA, incidents don't even make the news unless 10+ people are involved.
*I don't necessarily trust even people extensively trained for this type of situation, but I definitely do not trust people who do other things for a living than deal with high intensity, life or death situations.
I have to admit I have never fucking heard of one single incident where a good guy with a gun has done a single god damn thing about a mass shooting. you gonna pull out your six shooter while a guy is unloading with an AR15? give me a break
also the lt governer felt the need to use this time to whine about christians getting persecuted in the US because that's not politicizing a mass shooting at all
+7
ahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
A friend of mine made a comment about this just proving that religion is still the #1 motivator in violence.
And I'm pretty confused by that. I mean, other than this was done at a church, is there anything about this that seemed religiously motivated? That wet know of at this time?
A friend of mine made a comment about this just proving that religion is still the #1 motivator in violence.
And I'm pretty confused by that. I mean, other than this was done at a church, is there anything about this that seemed religiously motivated? That wet know of at this time?
I'm pretty hostile to religion in general, and christianity in specific, and even i think that's bullshit.
+22
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Ban. All. Guns. Al. Fucking. Ready. I can't do this anymore.
A friend of mine made a comment about this just proving that religion is still the #1 motivator in violence.
And I'm pretty confused by that. I mean, other than this was done at a church, is there anything about this that seemed religiously motivated? That wet know of at this time?
No. This is looking so far like standard "angry man" violence.
Yeah jailed for domestic violence, dishonourable discharge, etc, seem to be the key personality points relevant here
+8
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Who cares? These people can buy guns at shows, on the internet, wherever really.
We need way better mental health treatment but we will never catch every single person. Disarm them. Yes, I know trucks exist to be rented. The thing that can kill an entire church first.
Heard about this on the radio this morning, and they said that Trump said that 'this was a mental health issue, and guns weren't to blame'.
I immediately said "Oh, so the shooter was a white American".
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
+53
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
It's like replaying a dumb bad movie over and over. Same dude. Always the same gun, every, damn, time. Typical "mental health" or domestic violence background. Traditional suicide finish. The quick panic of "Please don't let him be brown". Then the endless bullshit "thoughts and prayers" and "It's too soon" and "We can't change this" and "How could this happen, from the one place it regularly happens"
When's the next replay?
You forgot the gun nuts calling this a false flag and abusing the shit out of victims on social media.
I didn't connect it with his history of domestic violence since that's a common thread with mass shooters anyway, but the Pastor has said his 14 year old daughter was among the victims and now I'm starting to wonder if this bastard was specifically targeting the women and girls.
It's just a horrible thought I had, we still know next to nothing about most of the victims.
I have to admit I have never fucking heard of one single incident where a good guy with a gun has done a single god damn thing about a mass shooting. you gonna pull out your six shooter while a guy is unloading with an AR15? give me a break
also the lt governer felt the need to use this time to whine about christians getting persecuted in the US because that's not politicizing a mass shooting at all
I have heard of one incident. Two people who were at the Bundy compound left/were kicked out because they wanted to actively start the white revolution rather than waiting to become martyrs like most of the rest. They went to a Wal-Mart in Las Vegas to kill some cops, as sovereign citizens do. A 'good guy with a gun' drew his to fight back. He was killed. He was honored as a hero, supposedly saving people in the store even though the two crazies were only interested in killing cops and told everybody else to leave. Everybody else that died from their spree were police that the crazies were targeting. All that 'good guy' did was increase the body count with himself.
It's like replaying a dumb bad movie over and over. Same dude. Always the same gun, every, damn, time. Typical "mental health" or domestic violence background. Traditional suicide finish. The quick panic of "Please don't let him be brown". Then the endless bullshit "thoughts and prayers" and "It's too soon" and "We can't change this" and "How could this happen, from the one place it regularly happens"
When's the next replay?
You forgot the gun nuts calling this a false flag and abusing the shit out of victims on social media.
Breitbart is reporting that the perp was an Athiest who often made fun of Christians on Social Media. Though it's interesting that they seem to be acknowledging that the incident did occur. So which sites are promoting the false flag narrative if Breitbart is not?
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
0
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
edited November 2017
Trump says that this is a mental health problem and he is arguably right for once, just not in the way he wants it to be.
The mental health that is in question is the one of the NRA, GOP, Congress, the entire presidential staff and every other lowlife scum that gives the "There was nothing we could have done" bullshit, while sitting on the power to makes changes.
Just as I saw the headline of mental health being the reason for the shooting and not terrorism, my immediate thought was - that the shooter was american, white and christian(?).
Wasn't one of the first things the Trump administration did scrapping a bunch of laws that prevented people with a history of certain mental illnesses from owning guns?
It's like replaying a dumb bad movie over and over. Same dude. Always the same gun, every, damn, time. Typical "mental health" or domestic violence background. Traditional suicide finish. The quick panic of "Please don't let him be brown". Then the endless bullshit "thoughts and prayers" and "It's too soon" and "We can't change this" and "How could this happen, from the one place it regularly happens"
When's the next replay?
You forgot the gun nuts calling this a false flag and abusing the shit out of victims on social media.
Breitbart is reporting that the perp was an Athiest who often made fun of Christians on Social Media. Though it's interesting that they seem to be acknowledging that the incident did occur. So which sites are promoting the false flag narrative if Breitbart is not?
Isn't the false flag narrative more in the wheelhouse of Infowars and such? I haven't heard Breitbart getting into any of that before. That's a bit deep end even for them.
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Oh, and the GOP and conservatives are going to send useless has thoughts and prayers to the victims, instead of telling the NRA to fuck off and reign in our bullshit gun culture.
So I almost hate to prove how incredibly correct you were, but...
Texas governor Greg Abbott was on CBS This Morning not an hour ago offering the standard thoughts and prayers. Gayle King challenged him on that basically stating that thoughts and prayers don’t stop this from happening again next time and asked what we should actually do about it, or if the American people should just accept this as normal in our country.
His answer was about prayer and to “work with god”.
Basically do nothing and pray it doesn’t happen to you.
It's like replaying a dumb bad movie over and over. Same dude. Always the same gun, every, damn, time. Typical "mental health" or domestic violence background. Traditional suicide finish. The quick panic of "Please don't let him be brown". Then the endless bullshit "thoughts and prayers" and "It's too soon" and "We can't change this" and "How could this happen, from the one place it regularly happens"
When's the next replay?
You forgot the gun nuts calling this a false flag and abusing the shit out of victims on social media.
Breitbart is reporting that the perp was an Athiest who often made fun of Christians on Social Media. Though it's interesting that they seem to be acknowledging that the incident did occur. So which sites are promoting the false flag narrative if Breitbart is not?
Isn't the false flag narrative more in the wheelhouse of Infowars and such? I haven't heard Breitbart getting into any of that before. That's a bit deep end even for them.
Ohhh yeah, you're right. I was conflating the two. (All conservative media looks the same to me I guess?)
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
Found the video. It’s more annoying than I remembered from when I saw it this morning because he suggests that praying and loving the shootings away is how the victims wanted to handle it too.
Honest to goodness I have seen three tweets in a row where the first said Kelley was a bible teacher, the second that he had converted to Islam, grown a beard and joined ISIS and the third that he was an Athiest member of Antifa. The amount of agenda pushing on this one is unreal.
The New York Daily News is reporting that Kelley's in-laws attended the Church, though they weren't there at the time of the shooting. I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere else yet though, and I don't know what sort of a rep the New York Daily News has.
Honest to goodness I have seen three tweets in a row where the first said Kelley was a bible teacher, the second that he had converted to Islam, grown a beard and joined ISIS and the third that he was an Athiest member of Antifa. The amount of agenda pushing on this one is unreal.
The New York Daily News is reporting that Kelley's in-laws attended the Church, though they weren't there at the time of the shooting. I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere else yet though, and I don't know what sort of a rep the New York Daily News has.
It really seems like people are ok with mass murderers as long as they're the right kind of people mass murdering.
"Part of god's plan" as long as the right people have guns, "Satan's pawn" if not the right people.
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}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I’ve already mentally started the countdown to the next shooting. It’s like the world’s shittiest lottery. I have no expectations for anything to change. I live in Texas, so for every Josh there are three Rick Perrys.
Fuck this useless cowboy culture. This isn’t freedom, it’s insanity we are willfully inflicting upon ourselves.
Posts
That's the same age as my daughter.
Who is currently cuddling on my lap because she heard a loud bang outside. It's fireworks season down here right now. So I'm going to be holding my scared baby tonight while my neighbors set off explosions.
And I'm still going to be grateful for where I live.
Good God what do we do now.
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I’m just going by what NBC is reporting:
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No, because this isn't the gun control thread.
Honestly, the whole thing disgusts me. How many more people will have to die before it becomes apparent that more fucking guns don't won't prevent mass shootings like this. If anything they'll create more. I'm also going to be disgusted that the fucking NRA, the fucking GOP and the fucking right wing media will focus on how a local resident confronted a the gunman with a rifle. They'll just ignore the fact that that did fuck all for the victims that had already be shot. BTW has any bothered to confirm if that resident's action did a damn bit of good because it sounds like he shot the fucker after he was planning on leavings?
To be completely fair, the timeline on events is still pretty dang murky. Even the BBC says that a local resident shot back at the shooter before he drove off...but also, in another article, that the local resident shot back while the shooter was driving away.
EDIT -
So, apparently, this is the latest word (from the BBC):
I have no doubt the story will change as more facts are discovered. My point is that tomorrow, there’s going to be a baker’s dozen of stories on Fox and the NRA talking about the “good guy with a gun” and downplaying or even straight ignoring the amount of casualties or the fifty things that could have gone wrong with armed civilians during an active shooter situation.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Sorry, I should have specified that I was addressing both your post and Goumindong's (about whether the shooter was done with the shooting and driving off to escape reprisal or if the counter-shots were what prompted the shooter to flee).
At this point, it's pretty much a dishearteningly foregone conclusion that Fox, the NRA, and any other news agency that listens to the latter are going to be spouting the "good guy with a gun" narrative (weren't the chair-warriors saying those things in relation to the Las Vegas shooting, too? And that situation was even worse off for return-fire than what happened in Sutherland Springs). I'm already seeing it in my Facebook feed (a few of my friends have been posting and getting replies from their friends along the lines of "That's why I have a CPL and why I conceal carry all the time...and if I was there, I'd be shooting back as soon as I heard shots!").
It's just. "Yup. And... yup, there's the predictable response. And there's the words everyone says every time. There's the same argument about One Good Man With A Gun. There's the usual hand-wringing about making this a political thing. Mmhm." and then I tune out. The most feeling I have is a vague sense of distress at my own apathy.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Also it knocks Columbine out of the top 10. At the time it was something that effected every high schooler in America pretty substantially, and not just because of increased security.
And now this won't be one of the top 25 things people remember about 2017
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
What if there are two Good Men With a Gun?
If the first GMWAG doesn't see the first shot fired, how will they know what to do? What about the third GMWAG?
Maybe we should nominate a GMWAG for public settings and make them wear distinctive uniforms and whoops I just invented the concept of security guards
*I don't necessarily trust even people extensively trained for this type of situation, but I definitely do not trust people who do other things for a living than deal with high intensity, life or death situations.
also the lt governer felt the need to use this time to whine about christians getting persecuted in the US because that's not politicizing a mass shooting at all
And I'm pretty confused by that. I mean, other than this was done at a church, is there anything about this that seemed religiously motivated? That wet know of at this time?
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No. This is looking so far like standard "angry man" violence.
We need way better mental health treatment but we will never catch every single person. Disarm them. Yes, I know trucks exist to be rented. The thing that can kill an entire church first.
I immediately said "Oh, so the shooter was a white American".
You forgot the gun nuts calling this a false flag and abusing the shit out of victims on social media.
It's just a horrible thought I had, we still know next to nothing about most of the victims.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I have heard of one incident. Two people who were at the Bundy compound left/were kicked out because they wanted to actively start the white revolution rather than waiting to become martyrs like most of the rest. They went to a Wal-Mart in Las Vegas to kill some cops, as sovereign citizens do. A 'good guy with a gun' drew his to fight back. He was killed. He was honored as a hero, supposedly saving people in the store even though the two crazies were only interested in killing cops and told everybody else to leave. Everybody else that died from their spree were police that the crazies were targeting. All that 'good guy' did was increase the body count with himself.
Breitbart is reporting that the perp was an Athiest who often made fun of Christians on Social Media. Though it's interesting that they seem to be acknowledging that the incident did occur. So which sites are promoting the false flag narrative if Breitbart is not?
The mental health that is in question is the one of the NRA, GOP, Congress, the entire presidential staff and every other lowlife scum that gives the "There was nothing we could have done" bullshit, while sitting on the power to makes changes.
Just as I saw the headline of mental health being the reason for the shooting and not terrorism, my immediate thought was - that the shooter was american, white and christian(?).
So I almost hate to prove how incredibly correct you were, but...
Texas governor Greg Abbott was on CBS This Morning not an hour ago offering the standard thoughts and prayers. Gayle King challenged him on that basically stating that thoughts and prayers don’t stop this from happening again next time and asked what we should actually do about it, or if the American people should just accept this as normal in our country.
His answer was about prayer and to “work with god”.
Basically do nothing and pray it doesn’t happen to you.
Ohhh yeah, you're right. I was conflating the two. (All conservative media looks the same to me I guess?)
Last 45 seconds of the video behind the link:
https://www.cbsnews.com/videos/texas-governor-says-church-gunman-had-been-denied-gun-permit/
I wish they had the balls to push back more on this shit. “Working with god” is such a fucking non-answer.
Dishonorable Discharge == No more guns
Edit: Though it might just be "no new guns." Not sure.
I saw a tweet from the NY Times that said he wasn't Dishonorablely discharged, it was another thing, something called a "bad conduct" discharge
The New York Daily News is reporting that Kelley's in-laws attended the Church, though they weren't there at the time of the shooting. I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere else yet though, and I don't know what sort of a rep the New York Daily News has.
It really seems like people are ok with mass murderers as long as they're the right kind of people mass murdering.
"Part of god's plan" as long as the right people have guns, "Satan's pawn" if not the right people.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Fuck this useless cowboy culture. This isn’t freedom, it’s insanity we are willfully inflicting upon ourselves.