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Man, this weekend was a harsh reminder that even liberals can have blind spots towards sexual abuse. Had conversations with a couple liberal minded women and was struck by their comments.
The first, when talking about Louis C.K and Weinstein first said that it was Hollywood, and so "should anyone be surprised?". Then handwaived the C.K thing by saying that it was just him reading the room wrong..that at least he didn't assault the women, that he was just doing it for himself, not against them.
Then later that weekend, some mentioned that that "Its just getting too much, too many" when it comes to women coming out. That it was hard to believe it was happening so much, and who knew which were true and which were lies.
She then tried to justify herself by saying that she just likes to play devil advocate and that there's always two sides to a story!
There's a difference between being a devil's advocate and being a fuckwit.
There is no arguable other side to this. What these men have done is fucking abhorrent.
+13
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Really, what that woman was saying was "Something I don't want to hear about is becoming more and more difficult to ignore and I want it to go away."
+25
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
I am worried that at some point the country will get to the point of "oh another sex abuser, well carry-on, business as usual", the way we apparently are with mass shootings now. (Not to imply that victims should stop or feel responsibility for in some way forestalling that; the critical mass of sex abuse was crossed long ago, and it's only because of the victims that we're now starting to be able to move in the right directions)
Hopefully before then we'll be in a spot where scads of media attention isn't a requirement for a particular abuser to be punished. I'm a bit mixed on how likely that is; high-powered Democrats have finally started to hold their own accountable instead of trying to handwave it away, but Republicans are 0 for 2 in resisting the urge to elect exposed sex abusers to high office, much less see them punished.
When we're all sick of this and don't care who the next sex abuser is we will move on to who the next upper class asshole running an underground hobo kumate is. And then we will get sick of that, because let's be honest, there's probably a lot of them.
I am worried that at some point the country will get to the point of "oh another sex abuser, well carry-on, business as usual", the way we apparently are with mass shootings now. (Not to imply that victims should stop or feel responsibility for in some way forestalling that; the critical mass of sex abuse was crossed long ago, and it's only because of the victims that we're now starting to be able to move in the right directions)
Hopefully before then we'll be in a spot where scads of media attention isn't a requirement for a particular abuser to be punished. I'm a bit mixed on how likely that is; high-powered Democrats have finally started to hold their own accountable instead of trying to handwave it away, but Republicans are 0 for 2 in resisting the urge to elect exposed sex abusers to high office, much less see them punished.
Which is why we gotta seize the current zeitgeist and push for change now, while people are still listening. We've seen it to some degree on the small scale, with people pressuring their companies into defining more active and aggressive anti-harassment policies.
The question I often hear asked, I why do evangelicals seem to hate everyone else so much? The reason is that they see other people's actions as taking them away from God.
So to them, the very existence of gays and other hated groups means evangelicals are afraid God will leave them. So to them, the elimination of the hated groups is literally (to them) a matter of life and death.
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
It's people like Evangelicals that give religion a bad name
And I say that as someone who is very non-religious. It sucks that what is mostly just a thing in people's lives that helps them through day to day matters, great and small, is then held up on a stick that also says a bunch of stupid, hateful, bigoted stuff by these sort of fuckwits
He's not hateful. He loves his people. Which is why His People are afraid the Others might take away His love.
If they're all powerful how can their love be taken away by people. If they're not all powerful why worship them.
I mean, the answer to this is deep and complicated and will not be satisfying to you in any way.
The short version is we are complicated creatures who have just enough understanding of our own existence to be terrified by it and that fear manifests in a lot of different ways for a lot of different people and it's really easy for that to get directed into hate.
He's not hateful. He loves his people. Which is why His People are afraid the Others might take away His love.
If they're all powerful how can their love be taken away by people. If they're not all powerful why worship them.
Because, according to my mother, that's how you get money. By worshipping God. He literally rewards you with cash.
That's what Pat Robertson, the creep, tells people that watch his show. I remember hearing a clip once where his co-host read a letter they got from a lady talking about the financial troubles they were in, not able to afford basic needs, let alone their tithing, and y'know what the fuckface answers? Find more to sacrifice so they can keep giving their tithe.
This is why I admire Judaism. Because in that faith, you follow beliefs and traditions up unless it's a matter of life or death. The preservation of life is WAY more important than staying kosher or observing Shabbat, etc.
Like I can appreciate it from an aesthetic point of view, like as a story, but I dunno. I have never felt any sense of religious or spiritual... anything really.
Sort of wish I could at times, like am I missing out? If I was a man of faith, would I struggle with some of the things I struggle with? And then I'm like well maybe not, but then there are other struggles, and you would be a totally different person really so, yeah.
I guess my point here is just that it's difficult for me to understand when people use religion to justify stuff because I presume that to them there must be some sort of... I dunno, inherent spiritualness to some views that comes from a place which I don't really feel. Or maybe there isn't and some people just have entirely shitty opinions which they have unfortunately been raised with and not shaken yet, maybe never will.
Like, I know the answer is that people suck (and to add an additional snarky asshole hot take, god is created by people so that's why they suck too), it's just frustrating. How someone can worship a person who said hey maybe be nice to people and how you treat the least of you is how you treat me and then do garbage like this. Humans are awful.
Like, I know the answer is that people suck (and to add an additional snarky asshole hot take, god is created by people so that's why they suck too), it's just frustrating. How someone can worship a person who said hey maybe be nice to people and how you treat the least of you is how you treat me and then do garbage like this. Humans are awful.
See, those passages were written when Christians were not overwhelming majority and in near total control of everything.
Now they no longer need to worry about outsiders oppressing them, those passages are no longer needed.
+8
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
I think people who use religion to justify covering their heads or eating a certain way or why they can't hang out with you Sunday morning or even want to live with other people of the same religion are fine and each of you letting the other go about their lives is fine. I don't think it says anything particularly negative about you or the other person and if you don't get each other that's okay, humanity isn't a hive mind and everyone works differently and enjoys a different way of living. I think most religions, if not all the people who keep them, are capable of evolving with an increasingly global society just enough to allow us to coexist without murdering or maiming each other once people realize that.
People who use a religion that is meant to teach love to justify doing terrible things to others with no other provocation whatsoever are probably just terrible people who would have found some other excuse. :P
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
I think people who use religion to justify covering their heads or eating a certain way or why they can't hang out with you Sunday morning or even want to live with other people of the same religion are fine and each of you letting the other go about their lives is fine. I don't think it says anything particularly negative about you or the other person and if you don't get each other that's okay, humanity isn't a hive mind and everyone works differently and enjoys a different way of living. I think most religions, if not all the people who keep them, are capable of evolving with an increasingly global society just enough to allow us to coexist without murdering or maiming each other once people realize that.
People who use a religion that is meant to teach love to justify doing terrible things to others with no other provocation whatsoever are probably just terrible people who would have found some other excuse. :P
The people who are devout christians will just use something like "it's good business" to defend being shitty at work, so, you're right there.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I think people who use religion to justify covering their heads or eating a certain way or why they can't hang out with you Sunday morning or even want to live with other people of the same religion are fine and each of you letting the other go about their lives is fine. I don't think it says anything particularly negative about you or the other person and if you don't get each other that's okay, humanity isn't a hive mind and everyone works differently and enjoys a different way of living. I think most religions, if not all the people who keep them, are capable of evolving with an increasingly global society just enough to allow us to coexist without murdering or maiming each other once people realize that.
People who use a religion that is meant to teach love to justify doing terrible things to others with no other provocation whatsoever are probably just terrible people who would have found some other excuse. :P
I personally welcome more excuses not to hang out with people on a Sunday morning. Or afternoon or evening or any other day of the week.
At least until society changes enough that’s it’s not taboo to meet up with someone and then ignore them and play Skyrim on my Switch while they blather on about their human-#% nonsense$&!37/
I am human
Drez on
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
0
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
When it came to selling livestock every farmer in this area knew never to sell to a baptist preacher. "They'll screw you on Saturday, get forgiveness on Sunday."
+8
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
I think people who use religion to justify covering their heads or eating a certain way or why they can't hang out with you Sunday morning or even want to live with other people of the same religion are fine and each of you letting the other go about their lives is fine. I don't think it says anything particularly negative about you or the other person and if you don't get each other that's okay, humanity isn't a hive mind and everyone works differently and enjoys a different way of living. I think most religions, if not all the people who keep them, are capable of evolving with an increasingly global society just enough to allow us to coexist without murdering or maiming each other once people realize that.
People who use a religion that is meant to teach love to justify doing terrible things to others with no other provocation whatsoever are probably just terrible people who would have found some other excuse. :P
I personally welcome more excuses not to hang out with people on a Sunday morning. Or afternoon or evening or any other day of the week.
At least until society changes enough that’s it’s not taboo to meet up with someone and then ignore them and play Skyrim on my Switch while they blather on about their human-#% nonsense$&!37/
I am human
This is about where I'm at. Especially because half the time people can't follow me and then I forget what I was saying. Screw that let's just run dungeons all day.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
I think people who use religion to justify covering their heads or eating a certain way or why they can't hang out with you Sunday morning or even want to live with other people of the same religion are fine and each of you letting the other go about their lives is fine. I don't think it says anything particularly negative about you or the other person and if you don't get each other that's okay, humanity isn't a hive mind and everyone works differently and enjoys a different way of living. I think most religions, if not all the people who keep them, are capable of evolving with an increasingly global society just enough to allow us to coexist without murdering or maiming each other once people realize that.
People who use a religion that is meant to teach love to justify doing terrible things to others with no other provocation whatsoever are probably just terrible people who would have found some other excuse. :P
I don't know that I find it easy to agree with that last point but you're probably right, I mean certainly I get on with religious people, I just don't really "get" it as anything beyond an aesthetic and a sense of community. Which people say it is more than, which is fair.
Even if that's true why would anyone worship someone who is clearly an abusive hateful asshole.
From a theological perspective, God is ALL. God is not the wheel, he's the hand that turns the wheel. Ergo, it is pointless to try to "humanize" the Will of God up to a point. God may be capable of relating to humans, but He is under no obligations, other than the things He has bound himself by, with promises to humanity. God is not "a dude with a beard in the sky".
Ergo, God is capable of infinite compassion and understanding, but that does not translate to "everything will be 100% okay in your life, always."
Because of things such as evil, free will, human nature, etc.
Hence why there is such a major focus in the NT especially on doing things that are just plan idiotic from a "normal" perspective.
NOT going for an eye for an eye (even though that is a form of justice.)
Loving your neighbor as yourself.
Saying a heathen can obey the spirit of the law more than a legalistic pharisee (i.e. the good samaritan).
I can't speak for all "evangelicals", but I can tell you there is a big disconnect between what the Bible says about certain topics, re, prosperity, helping your fellow man, obeying the 10 Commandments, and what people actually do.
Jesus was more ferociously opposed to Pharisees than anyone else in the Bible, and were the only group of people he actively kicked the asses of.
manwiththemachinegun on
+1
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Jesus was at his best when he was whipping the shit out of money lenders.
+36
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
You know what's cool? Samaritans still exist! There's a small community of about 700 in Israel and they still do animal sacrifices and stuff, but at Mount Gerizim instead of Jerusalem. The community is shrinking and they've been on the verge of disappearing altogether for centuries. There used to be 5 families but now there's only four. They've been at the point of disappearing entirely through most of the 19th and 20th centuries and the current 700 is actually higher than what it was in the past.
"Heathen" is probably the wrong word, as their religion is the same as Judaism (with only a few small differences). "Heretic" might be more accurate depending on the time period and who you're asking. But they've currently got a fairly peaceful relationship with both Jews and Muslims in Palestine/Israel. Mainly because they are a very small community and don't want to cause trouble for themselves.
I wish people would just start walking out or cutting to studio when he does shit like that. Like that moron breitbart guy comparing Ringo Starr to Roy Moore because Ringo covered 'You're 16'. Like covering a fictional song about teenage love is the same as molesting a child.
Cut the camera and calmly explain why what that guy just said is complete and utter bullshit. Then stop inviting him back.
Posts
There's a difference between being a devil's advocate and being a fuckwit.
There is no arguable other side to this. What these men have done is fucking abhorrent.
Hopefully before then we'll be in a spot where scads of media attention isn't a requirement for a particular abuser to be punished. I'm a bit mixed on how likely that is; high-powered Democrats have finally started to hold their own accountable instead of trying to handwave it away, but Republicans are 0 for 2 in resisting the urge to elect exposed sex abusers to high office, much less see them punished.
Which is why we gotta seize the current zeitgeist and push for change now, while people are still listening. We've seen it to some degree on the small scale, with people pressuring their companies into defining more active and aggressive anti-harassment policies.
So to them, the very existence of gays and other hated groups means evangelicals are afraid God will leave them. So to them, the elimination of the hated groups is literally (to them) a matter of life and death.
If they're all powerful how can their love be taken away by people. If they're not all powerful why worship them.
And I say that as someone who is very non-religious. It sucks that what is mostly just a thing in people's lives that helps them through day to day matters, great and small, is then held up on a stick that also says a bunch of stupid, hateful, bigoted stuff by these sort of fuckwits
I mean, the answer to this is deep and complicated and will not be satisfying to you in any way.
The short version is we are complicated creatures who have just enough understanding of our own existence to be terrified by it and that fear manifests in a lot of different ways for a lot of different people and it's really easy for that to get directed into hate.
Because, according to my mother, that's how you get money. By worshipping God. He literally rewards you with cash.
This is why I admire Judaism. Because in that faith, you follow beliefs and traditions up unless it's a matter of life or death. The preservation of life is WAY more important than staying kosher or observing Shabbat, etc.
Close.
Like I can appreciate it from an aesthetic point of view, like as a story, but I dunno. I have never felt any sense of religious or spiritual... anything really.
Sort of wish I could at times, like am I missing out? If I was a man of faith, would I struggle with some of the things I struggle with? And then I'm like well maybe not, but then there are other struggles, and you would be a totally different person really so, yeah.
I guess my point here is just that it's difficult for me to understand when people use religion to justify stuff because I presume that to them there must be some sort of... I dunno, inherent spiritualness to some views that comes from a place which I don't really feel. Or maybe there isn't and some people just have entirely shitty opinions which they have unfortunately been raised with and not shaken yet, maybe never will.
Now they no longer need to worry about outsiders oppressing them, those passages are no longer needed.
People who use a religion that is meant to teach love to justify doing terrible things to others with no other provocation whatsoever are probably just terrible people who would have found some other excuse. :P
The people who are devout christians will just use something like "it's good business" to defend being shitty at work, so, you're right there.
I personally welcome more excuses not to hang out with people on a Sunday morning. Or afternoon or evening or any other day of the week.
At least until society changes enough that’s it’s not taboo to meet up with someone and then ignore them and play Skyrim on my Switch while they blather on about their human-#% nonsense$&!37/
I am human
This is about where I'm at. Especially because half the time people can't follow me and then I forget what I was saying. Screw that let's just run dungeons all day.
Ugh fuck off and resign
I don't know that I find it easy to agree with that last point but you're probably right, I mean certainly I get on with religious people, I just don't really "get" it as anything beyond an aesthetic and a sense of community. Which people say it is more than, which is fair.
From a theological perspective, God is ALL. God is not the wheel, he's the hand that turns the wheel. Ergo, it is pointless to try to "humanize" the Will of God up to a point. God may be capable of relating to humans, but He is under no obligations, other than the things He has bound himself by, with promises to humanity. God is not "a dude with a beard in the sky".
Ergo, God is capable of infinite compassion and understanding, but that does not translate to "everything will be 100% okay in your life, always."
Because of things such as evil, free will, human nature, etc.
Hence why there is such a major focus in the NT especially on doing things that are just plan idiotic from a "normal" perspective.
NOT going for an eye for an eye (even though that is a form of justice.)
Loving your neighbor as yourself.
Saying a heathen can obey the spirit of the law more than a legalistic pharisee (i.e. the good samaritan).
I can't speak for all "evangelicals", but I can tell you there is a big disconnect between what the Bible says about certain topics, re, prosperity, helping your fellow man, obeying the 10 Commandments, and what people actually do.
Jesus was more ferociously opposed to Pharisees than anyone else in the Bible, and were the only group of people he actively kicked the asses of.
whatever happened to the spinny emoji? I feel like I need that now.
:rotate:
thank you
"Heathen" is probably the wrong word, as their religion is the same as Judaism (with only a few small differences). "Heretic" might be more accurate depending on the time period and who you're asking. But they've currently got a fairly peaceful relationship with both Jews and Muslims in Palestine/Israel. Mainly because they are a very small community and don't want to cause trouble for themselves.
If this was in a satire I'd say they were overselling it.
Cut the camera and calmly explain why what that guy just said is complete and utter bullshit. Then stop inviting him back.