this Wii Thread had a terrible name so I changed it

Rankenphile

A thread in which there shall be much discussion regarding Nintendo's newest console with its strange control scheme, and in which Defender routinely "discusses" for attention.

Friend Codes
(Red=no NSFW messages because they are pussies)

AAH! - 7859 9926 9984 2416
Arcibi - 5024 6786 2934 2806
Ashcroft - 5842 7180 9898 0409
Bedlam - 2889 4461 4059 6198
Bloods End - 2135 2468 9707 3756
borfase - 0208 9068 2016 1188
BrokenAngel - 1759 1589 2473 4383
Calebros - 5342 1099 9850 9914
Callius - 5877 9168 3232 1373
Comahawk - 4778 3883 2662 9135
commie - 0435 4059 8069 6312
CorpseRT - 2513 4094 0583 2826
Dynagrip - 2218 7254 9211 7431
EffStarStarStar - 4582 7584 7195 8509
-=EIN=- - 3600 4811 9765 6924
Envy - 6480-4623-9120-1708
Evander - 8572 4759 9973 5701
Favlaud - 4162-6937-2533-5130
fightinfilipino - 6560 3520 0419 4293
Fission Mailed - 3155 5231 2274 0780
Fizban - 7289 6908 3616 7295
Fleebenworth - 7439 8952 7122 7310
FortyTwo - 1942 4044 7612 8808
Geebs - 7736 7802 8860 9852
Geek - 6854 3470 4546 9767
Gigglio - 6374 8802 8393 8533
Green - 6640 9814 2518 0343
Herr Caesar - 3426 0756 9555 0460
Javen - 2469 4289 4068 1134
Kadith - 4282 1104 5920 7646
Keith - 5491 6444 1873 1672
Kevin Crist - 2645 0098 8815 9523
Khaziim - 0791 5755 0531 7857
Knob - 8063 7443 3768 6408
Lardalish - 3250 0690 0950 1720
lessmore - 1418 2960 5944 9277
Litejedi - 2293 5121 4704 1914
Lord Butters - 4237 5142 0315 6063
Marathon - 6023 0196 1810 2917
Moriveth - 3611 4806 0897 6429
Mr. Embarkation - 4693 3122 3869 2013
PkErthbnd - 6561 4230 6160 2045
potatoe - 8661 8252 7813 5945
PotU - 0028 5677 5364 1905
Qorzm - 3596 0823 1229 8340
Raijin Dickfoot - 8508 0141 4424 5667
Rankenphile - 0602 5319 8291 7579
redimpulse - 5187 4227 5832 4859
Riggs Blitzkrieg - 5631 6243 8223 8694
Ronjon - 2487-0936-0434-3328
SarsBoy - 1007 8333 1630 6903
Scrumtrulescent - 5682 2746 2952 1386
Shorty - 1493 0604 6777 3415
Silmaril - 1717-3891-2619-2958
Slungsolow - 7797-7336-9273-9409
Smart Hero - 4072 5313 8953 3777
SporkAndrew - 7802-0290-6270-4797
Squashua - 8980 7585 1015 3348
Strange Attractor - 4329 8742 5359 8439
Synthetic Orange - 4408 9382 9336 2242
Talon - 4233-0327-0680-1655
ThatDudeOverThere - 0044 6611 3038 2907
The Cheese - 5728 4498 2296 9842
TheLovelyBastard - 1739 3523 8106 3030
TFS - 1803 1286 5234 5158
Trillian - 0998 2847 6510 5825
twispby - 1609 6078 6145 6796
Veretas- 6352 9093 7878 0869
Voth - 0453 6826 7709 5952
Vulnox - 8747 6408 7222 6436
wombat - 7623 9955 2119 1775

PM me your friend codes and they'll go here

also let me know if you're fine with NSFW stuff or not

Bogey

Thanks, dude. :^:

Defender

Ahhhh, much better than the Borfase version.

PotU

But I like this thread.

No Great Name

what kind of NSFW stuff would be in the wii thread?

Wren

so how about that wii? I heard theres only one game worth owning

Defender

So I think I will get around to trying Dawn of War. I hope it has good (decent) matchmaking like BNet.

Defender

SirToons wrote: »

what kind of NSFW stuff would be in the wii thread?

No, like, sent to the person's Wii. Knob, for example, likes butts.

Rankenphile

Defender wrote: »

SirToons wrote: »

what kind of NSFW stuff would be in the wii thread?

No, like, sent to the person's Wii. Knob, for example, likes butts.

in other words, if you don't want people wii-mailing you boobies, don't add callius.

Carnivore

Defender wrote: »

So I think I will get around to trying Dawn of War. I hope it has good (decent) matchmaking like BNet.

It doesnt. Its gamespy.

Grab Company of Heroes if you can, that has proprietary matchmaking which is brilliant.

Zek

Rank, we have a Wii wiki at pawii.pbwiki.com, you should link it in the OP.

Defender wrote: »

Zek wrote: »

Okay, smart guy, then you tell me. What does MGS4 do that's so hot that it can't be recreated on the Wii? Suppose, graphics-wise, that it was on the level of MGS3. If it were simply a matter of a new campaign on MGS3's engine, theoretically the PS2 could do it. Are you going to tell me that MGS4's AI is so godly it would make the Wii's head spin?

Burden of proof is on you, Zek. You're the one who said that "some cuts in the graphics department" were the only thing needed. I don't have the game, much less the source code, so I can't say for sure how they're spending their CPU cycles.

I can, however, tell you why MGS3 can't be on the PS1, since I've actually had the chance to play those games. And it's not just "graphics are too high-poly" or whatever.

You're the one who said you're sure that MGS4 could run on the Wii without any basis for that statement. Have you ever written a program on a PC? Like, even a little "hello, world" in C or C++? If not, why are you telling me that you are sure that an unreleased PS3 title could easily run on the Wii?

Bullshit, I don't have to prove anything. Why don't you prove to me why my suggestion is so impossible that it's hilarious? I've followed the hype for MGS4 and I don't recall hearing about anything super-fancy other than its visuals. Obviously I'm speculating. You don't get to pull rank on me while still not providing a scrap of actual information to refute my claims. Get off your high horse; no, I don't work in the games industry but I am a Comp Sci major and have plenty of programming experience.

Supposing I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume MGS4 uses all of the PS3's horsepower for lots of little things like physics and AI. My point is that the Wii could still put out a game that's very comparable to MGS4 if it shaved off the fancy next-gen stuff. If they wanted to recreate MGS4's campaign using the MGS3 engine and visuals, I have no doubt that they could do it no sweat. No, it won't be quite as nice. But my point is that the Wii is capable of creating a very similar game experience - there are far more options for this sort of thing than there were 10 years ago.

Munacra

ah fuck. and I was just making that list too.

SA

Wow

alot of you duders have Wiis

I'll get me one some day.

No Great Name

Defender wrote: »

So I think I will get around to trying Dawn of War. I hope it has good (decent) matchmaking like BNet.

Dude, you will like Company of Heroes better.

Because it's the better game.

Although if you want to play with PA people for some reason more of them play DW.

edit: Probably because of the lol warhammer.

Rankenphile

SA wrote: »

Wow

alot of you duders have Wiis

I'll get me one some day.

that list is way out of date, I know there's at least a dozen or two regulars here that I don't have on that list.

It is one from an older thread (Show me your Wii-ness) I made a few months back.

Voth

I just downloaded Dragon's Curse. It's getting better and better the more I play it.

Munacra

flopside pit of 100 trials is a ball breaker.

No Great Name

I refuse to link my debit card to the VC, because I know I'd end up buying like ten games.

I also can't find any wii points cards so it's a keep my money but don't play Gunstar Heroes situation.

Borfase

my thread was way, way better because it had a no defender rule

Munacra

defender is the life of the party.

Carnivore

Borfase wrote: »

my thread was way, way better because it had a no defender rule

This thread compounds this by not having a no Borfase rule aswell.

Borfase

Munacra wrote: »

defender is the life of the party.

must be a really shitty party then

Borfase

Carnivore wrote: »

Borfase wrote: »

my thread was way, way better because it had a no defender rule

This thread compounds this by not having a no Borfase rule aswell.

see now having a no borfase rule would just be silly because i am the best person on this forum

bruin

lostwords

So Spider-man 3 for the Wii. Anyone play it yet? I played it over the weekend. The combat parts get tiresome, but the swinging around NY using the Wiimote is addictive. Controls take some getting used too though. Not good: can't randomly beat pedestrians.

Borfase

the spiderman 3 game looks pretty bad

Defender

Zek wrote: »

Rank, we have a Wii wiki at pawii.pbwiki.com, you should link it in the OP.

Defender wrote: »

Zek wrote: »

Okay, smart guy, then you tell me. What does MGS4 do that's so hot that it can't be recreated on the Wii? Suppose, graphics-wise, that it was on the level of MGS3. If it were simply a matter of a new campaign on MGS3's engine, theoretically the PS2 could do it. Are you going to tell me that MGS4's AI is so godly it would make the Wii's head spin?

Burden of proof is on you, Zek. You're the one who said that "some cuts in the graphics department" were the only thing needed. I don't have the game, much less the source code, so I can't say for sure how they're spending their CPU cycles.

I can, however, tell you why MGS3 can't be on the PS1, since I've actually had the chance to play those games. And it's not just "graphics are too high-poly" or whatever.

You're the one who said you're sure that MGS4 could run on the Wii without any basis for that statement. Have you ever written a program on a PC? Like, even a little "hello, world" in C or C++? If not, why are you telling me that you are sure that an unreleased PS3 title could easily run on the Wii?

Bullshit, I don't have to prove anything. Why don't you prove to me why my suggestion is so impossible that it's hilarious? I've followed the hype for MGS4 and I don't recall hearing about anything super-fancy other than its visuals. Obviously I'm speculating. You don't get to pull rank on me while still not providing a scrap of actual information to refute my claims. Get off your high horse; no, I don't work in the games industry but I am a Comp Sci major and have plenty of programming experience.

OK, so you've implied that you've written C/C++ code before without actually stating it. I'll take that.

Zek wrote: »

Supposing I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume MGS4 uses all of the PS3's horsepower for lots of little things like physics and AI. My point is that the Wii could still put out a game that's very comparable to MGS4 if it shaved off the fancy next-gen stuff. If they wanted to recreate MGS4's campaign using the MGS3 engine and visuals, I have no doubt that they could do it no sweat. No, it won't be quite as nice. But my point is that the Wii is capable of creating a very similar game experience - there are far more options for this sort of thing than there were 10 years ago.

And I'm saying that you need some kind of information to back this claim up, and you don't have any. You have no idea what MGS4 does in terms of AI (although what's been said leads me to believe that it's far more complex), no idea what kinds of visuals are required for the experience to be right, and no idea what they're doing for physics. (You also have no idea how much raw data in the form of FMVs and voice acting they have, but I guess you'd just argue that those could be cut down to lower resolution or something.) You have no idea if a hard drive is needed for any of the features, or what the load times or streaming systems are like. In short, you don't know if the Wii can even handle the core gameplay, and you're merely asserting that it can, and all that would be needed is to change the graphics. That's ridiculous.

No Great Name

bruin wrote: »

Background is blowing my mind, like SPM world 1.

Defender

Borfase wrote: »

Munacra wrote: »

defender is the life of the party.

must be a really shitty party then

I don't see people lining up outside the bathroom to hear your sobs.

Carnivore

Defender wrote: »

Borfase wrote: »

Munacra wrote: »

defender is the life of the party.

must be a really shitty party then

I don't see people lining up outside the bathroom to hear your sobs.

ICEBURN!

Borfase

Defender wrote: »

Borfase wrote: »

Munacra wrote: »

defender is the life of the party.

must be a really shitty party then

I don't see people lining up outside the bathroom to hear your sobs.

that would be because i don't sit in the bathroom sobbing, doy

PotU

The last time I bought a game for the Wii was about 5 month ago, so I'm really looking forward to play Paper Mario. But goddammit, the release date for Europe wasn't even announced.

When's Fire Emblem coming out?

No Great Name

PotU wrote: »

The last time I bought a game for the Wii was about 5 month ago, so I'm really looking forward to play Paper Mario. But goddammit, the release date for Europe wasn't even announced.

When's Fire Emblem coming out?

If you live in Europe I don't know.

Heck I don't even know when it's comming stateside.

It SHOULD of been out awhile ago I have no idea what they are doing.

Bedlam

Borfase wrote: »

Munacra wrote: »

defender is the life of the party.

must be a really shitty party then

Its the kind of party where no one is allowed to have fun. And if you think you are having fun then defender will use Very Long Postsâ„¢ to explain that you are so very wrong.

Pata

RAWR RAWR RAWR

PotU

SirToons wrote: »

PotU wrote: »

The last time I bought a game for the Wii was about 5 month ago, so I'm really looking forward to play Paper Mario. But goddammit, the release date for Europe wasn't even announced.

When's Fire Emblem coming out?

If you live in Europe I don't know.

Heck I don't even know when it's comming stateside.

It SHOULD of been out awhile ago I have no idea what they are doing.

Hmmm... Wikipedia says that it's still TBA everywhere but in Japan. There can't be that much text.

Zek

Defender wrote: »

Zek wrote: »

Supposing I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume MGS4 uses all of the PS3's horsepower for lots of little things like physics and AI. My point is that the Wii could still put out a game that's very comparable to MGS4 if it shaved off the fancy next-gen stuff. If they wanted to recreate MGS4's campaign using the MGS3 engine and visuals, I have no doubt that they could do it no sweat. No, it won't be quite as nice. But my point is that the Wii is capable of creating a very similar game experience - there are far more options for this sort of thing than there were 10 years ago.

And I'm saying that you need some kind of information to back this claim up, and you don't have any. You have no idea what MGS4 does in terms of AI (although what's been said leads me to believe that it's far more complex), no idea what kinds of visuals are required for the experience to be right, and no idea what they're doing for physics. (You also have no idea how much raw data in the form of FMVs and voice acting they have, but I guess you'd just argue that those could be cut down to lower resolution or something.) You have no idea if a hard drive is needed for any of the features, or what the load times or streaming systems are like. In short, you don't know if the Wii can even handle the core gameplay, and you're merely asserting that it can, and all that would be needed is to change the graphics. That's ridiculous.

You have just as little information to back up your claims about what the Wii isn't capable of. As hypocritical as your little spiel about having proof of accusations is, I'll concede that I can't say with certainty how much would need to be cut to run MGS4 on the Wii.

However, my point still stands. Your original argument was that the PS1 was just too weak to run a game anything like MGS3, implying that similarly there are games that the Wii can't even come close to reproducing on the 360/PS3. However, I think that's a flawed argument. I would argue that the increase in console power becomes progressively less and less necessary to run the meat of a game with every passing gen. For example, the SNES couldn't do 3D at all beyond something like Star Fox, and the N64 didn't have the capacity for FMV like Final Fantasy or extensive voice acting like MGS. You could argue that these were games that couldn't be recreated on inferior technology. The PS1's graphics were far enough from realism that the jump in graphics in the following gen was extremely significant. In contrast, I'd say that MGS3's graphics were close enough to realistic that further improvements are incremental rather than groundbreaking. How much better would that game have been with 100% perfect realism, like right out of real life? Not much, I'd say. They can use a lot of system power to calculate physics of individual drops of sweat or whatever, but there's a point at which those details just don't mean much to anybody anymore.

What I'm saying is that, in 99% of cases, the Wii will be fully capable of running any game the 360/PS3 can put out with enough reduction of technical details. It can handle AI and physics well enough to satisfy most players, and graphics better than anything last gen. In other words, someone that doesn't care about the technical details could, theoretically, play equally epic games on the Wii with very little sacrifice to gameplay. I think that much is pretty much indisputable. Can you really imagine a PS3 game that is completely impossible to recreate at all with the Wii's hardware?

Pata

Hey, Pata, about what the market will or won't support:

http://nexgenwars.com/

So right now I see about 3 million PS3s, 6.9 million Wiis, and 10 million 360s.

The 360 had a head start, sure, so that's a little unfair, but here's the deal:

The PS3 and the 360 both represent "big, flashy" systems with, you know, good hardware. So when you want to see what people are buying, don't forget to consider that it's not just Wii versus one of those two, it's Wii versus BOTH, because the 360 and the PS3 are both high-end "flashy" machines.

Also, like I said, 3 million PS3s and 6.9 million Wiis as of when I opened that page. I rounded the PS3s down and the Wiis up, actually.

3,000,000 * $600 = $1,800,000,000
6,900,000 * $250 = $1,725,000,000

And this doesn't count the money that people have spent on the 360. So it looks like the market is supporting the PS3 about as well (actually slightly more) than the Wii, if you just look at how much money has been poured into it. If you want to look at units sold, sure, the Wii's got more out there than the PS3 right now, but if you look at money, the PS3 is up. You're looking at it the way you want it to be, and that's fine. It's just like how you debate me by using terms you don't understand and changing the things I say to be more convenient. You want to pretend that things are one way when in fact they're not

Defender you do realize that the PS3 costs like, 3 times as much as the Wii and is still bleeding money because Sony's selling it at a loss. Same with the 360 twice as pricey and it's likely selling at a minor loss currently if you factor in the fact that retailers need to profit off it.

Revenue means nothing. Profits are all that matter. And right now the PS3 is a money burner and it's not even getting that great hardware sales to attract software developers.

You know, that's a major flaw in your argument that "POWER WILL EQUAL SALES!"

First the sales have to be there.

It's a snowball effect.

Why would the Wii suddenly fail in the middle of a generation? It gets the sales so it gets the games which means more sales...

Meanwhile the 360 will cater to the same niche the Xbox did last generation and the PS3.. well, the less said about that the better.

Pata

Also dang the Skeleton Dome "Don't get hit" mission in Sonic is hard.

Defender

Zek wrote: »

Defender wrote: »

Zek wrote: »

Supposing I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume MGS4 uses all of the PS3's horsepower for lots of little things like physics and AI. My point is that the Wii could still put out a game that's very comparable to MGS4 if it shaved off the fancy next-gen stuff. If they wanted to recreate MGS4's campaign using the MGS3 engine and visuals, I have no doubt that they could do it no sweat. No, it won't be quite as nice. But my point is that the Wii is capable of creating a very similar game experience - there are far more options for this sort of thing than there were 10 years ago.

And I'm saying that you need some kind of information to back this claim up, and you don't have any. You have no idea what MGS4 does in terms of AI (although what's been said leads me to believe that it's far more complex), no idea what kinds of visuals are required for the experience to be right, and no idea what they're doing for physics. (You also have no idea how much raw data in the form of FMVs and voice acting they have, but I guess you'd just argue that those could be cut down to lower resolution or something.) You have no idea if a hard drive is needed for any of the features, or what the load times or streaming systems are like. In short, you don't know if the Wii can even handle the core gameplay, and you're merely asserting that it can, and all that would be needed is to change the graphics. That's ridiculous.

You have just as little information to back up your claims about what the Wii isn't capable of. As hypocritical as your little spiel about having proof of accusations is, I'll concede that I can't say with certainty how much would need to be cut to run MGS4 on the Wii.

How is it hypocritical? You made the statement that it could run on the Wii, and I challenged. The burden of proof does NOT lie with me on this. And besides, we already know from what we've seen that the whole thing is higher-detail with longer lines of sight than MGS3, plus it supposedly has multiple factions, which means vastly more complex AI, all of which costs something to do. I think I've done a reasonable job of casting doubt.

Zek wrote: »

However, my point still stands. Your original argument was that the PS1 was just too weak to run a game anything like MGS3, implying that similarly there are games that the Wii can't even come close to reproducing on the 360/PS3. However, I think that's a flawed argument. I would argue that the increase in console power becomes progressively less and less necessary to run the meat of a game with every passing gen. For example, the SNES couldn't do 3D at all beyond something like Star Fox, and the N64 didn't have the capacity for FMV like Final Fantasy or extensive voice acting like MGS. You could argue that these were games that couldn't be recreated on inferior technology. The PS1's graphics were far enough from realism that the jump in graphics in the following gen was extremely significant. In contrast, I'd say that MGS3's graphics were close enough to realistic that further improvements are incremental rather than groundbreaking. How much better would that game have been with 100% perfect realism, like right out of real life? Not much, I'd say. They can use a lot of system power to calculate physics of individual drops of sweat or whatever, but there's a point at which those details just don't mean much to anybody anymore.

Yeah, but then there's also a point where you realize that even a place like Grozny Grad at high alert that's supposed to be swarming with troops rarely has more than two or three in any given area. That's part gameplay (Snake does need to escape), but also part graphical limitation. Even the layout of Grozny Grad's outdoor areas, with the random concrete walls blocking your vision, reeked (to a graphics programmer) of polygon-saving efforts. The jungle scenes were also fairly claustrophobic, in that the first-person view could rarely see very far; they used ground elevation and lines of trees to block off visibility in a lot of areas. The problem here is that you're looking at the finished game and going "what are they going to do to make this look better" and just coming up with "higher poly counts, maybe some normal maps, stuff like that." The perspective you need to take is a developer's perspective; the way the game looks now is a PRODUCT of its limitations. If you went back in time and gave them a PS3 instead, the jungle might've been bigger or more open, there might've been more troops around, Snake might have been able to move through trees as a practical means of getting around, or there could have been water in more areas of the game. A lot of how a game is made is based on the limits, and going back to make a "high-def" version of an existing game enables much more than just graphical upgrades. For example, Twin Snakes versus MGS1...The higher processing power of the GC enabled a ton of real gameplay features that would've bogged down the PS1 version, not just higher-detail models and cooler animations.

Zek wrote: »

What I'm saying is that, in 99% of cases, the Wii will be fully capable of running any game the 360/PS3 can put out with enough reduction of technical details. It can handle AI and physics well enough to satisfy most players, and graphics better than anything last gen. In other words, someone that doesn't care about the technical details could, theoretically, play equally epic games on the Wii with very little sacrifice to gameplay. I think that much is pretty much indisputable. Can you really imagine a PS3 game that is completely impossible to recreate at all with the Wii's hardware?

What I'm saying is, you don't know that. And since you asked me if I can imagine a PS3 game that can't happen on the Wii, and since you used the word "epic," I'm gonna go ahead and say yes.

And it's called Oblivion.

Monkeybomb

Hey Defender, I'm assuming you beat the Challenge of the Gods.