So I guess I need to look for a new IT job.

VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
I think I've finally gotten to the breaking point with my job of almost 20 years (State Gov't IT Infrastructure Analyst) We've been undergoing a consolidation where all state gov't it agencies are being put into one organization and it's not going well and I'm of the opinion that management is incompetent. A few years back, I was in the process of getting promoted to senior analyst, but that got cancelled because of this consolidation and I'm pretty sure I'm being retaliated against because, in the past, I've criticized the organization that I've now been consolidated into for bungling oh so many things and generally demonstrating they don't know how to do anything. It seems to me they want loyalty/sycophants over actually getting things done.

I have no idea how to job hunt anymore. I just dug up my resume file and as you can imagine, it needs massive updating. (or is administrating about 500 Windows 95 PCs still relevant on a modern IT resume? ;))

Can anyone point me to good resume advice for an IT job? Do I need to go gussied up in a suit and tie again? One ad I saw talked about how they wore flip flips to work, which hey cool, I don't actually have flip flops, but I suspect I still can't show up for the interview in jeans and a dirty tshirt.

I'd like to get into security field. My main field of expertise is support/administration of Windows desktops and servers. I got my A+ cert a long time ago, it was supposed to be a lifetime cert, but I'm not sure if it's even valid anymore. I'm good with building images, group policy, and configuration management but I'm not an MCSE. I have some old certs from the Novell days, but again, I'm guessing I shouldn't be putting stuff like that on a modern resume.

About 7 years ago, I started doing security work, participating in IRS computer security audits since our agencies hold federal data, so I'm pretty familiar with those requirements and remediating any findings from said audits. I took a CISSP class, but admittedly, I saw how much it cost to get certified and I turned away from that. I also knew that it wouldn't help me in my current job.

I really loved my job, but under this new management, I think they're trying to turn me into an ass kisser instead of an IT analyst and I don't think I can take it anymore.

Thanks in advance.

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Posts

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    If you have the money for it, I highly recommend paying someone to make your resume pretty. I did that a couple of years back and it got me out of a dead-end job with customer support into a systems-admin track job at a better company. And in between getting that job, I would hear praise of my resume from different quarters.

    If you've been doing sysadmin for 20 years you're in a pretty great spot for getting a sysadmin job. Did your gov't IT job get you security clearance? If so that's a huge leg up in the commercial sector.

    I've also found that having a Linkedin profile, and filling out the job section with basically a copy of my resume, gets me a lot of job leads, so look into that. Also fill out the skills section.

    Glassdoor and Linkedin where my two prime sources of job searching when I was still looking. Dice is ok but I never really got anything I liked from them. Monster was a waste of time.

    Unfortunately I can't give you advice on what to wear for an interview because there's a whole different standard for ladies and men.

    Shadowfirejjae2123Heffling
  • twmjrtwmjr Registered User regular
    re: attire -- it should be relatively easy to determine from some searching what the company culture looks like. in general:

    if you're applying at a larger, more traditional company -- go with the stereotypical jacket and tie. your potential colleagues may not care, but you never know who you'll be introduced to/who else will be brought into the interview.

    if it's a smaller, start-up type environment there's a little more flexibility. I personally wouldn't go below business casual unless you're absolutely sure it's as super relaxed environment -- i.e. if they're touting the flip flops in the job posting.

    good luck!

  • RadiationRadiation Registered User regular
    Are you able to switch state agencies at all? Or maybe go federal? Or do you just want to get out into private sector?
    My buddy went from one state agency to another and it was night/day difference.
    Security+ is a bit easier/bit cheaper and might be a good one to pickup instead of the CISSP.

    PSN: jfrofl
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Radiation wrote: »
    Are you able to switch state agencies at all? Or maybe go federal? Or do you just want to get out into private sector?
    My buddy went from one state agency to another and it was night/day difference.
    Security+ is a bit easier/bit cheaper and might be a good one to pickup instead of the CISSP.

    There is a possibility of going to another agency, but it would have to be an agency that doesn't directly report to the Gov since all of those agencies that report directly to the Gov are the ones being consolidated. A former manager that I really liked moved to one of those agencies and he seems pretty happy. I already asked him half-jokingly about a month ago if he had any openings, but he didn't :(

    I never really considered Federal though, so I'll have to look into that. I've never worked IT in private sector so that would be uncharted territory for me. I always assumed that because I'm so used to the constant regulations we have to follow in gov't that working in private sector would be a mind blowing experience, but yeah, it may just be time for that kind of change.

    One of the things I liked about my job was the variety. One day I might be doing front line help desk, another I might be in the trenches, under desks fixing a network cable, and another day I might be helping write policies or dataflow diagrams of our infrastructure to make sure it's secure, or re-vamping our imaging system for Win10 and UEFI partitions, or designing a new application deployment in SCCM. I never knew what I would be doing. This new regime wants me basically to pick one thing and do it all the time. I told them I wanted to work more in security, but they pretty much ignored me and stuck me in Help Desk, which yeah, I still like doing, but doing only that is...unsatisfying. It wouldn't be so bad doing just Help Desk, but there is also a clear pecking order and Help Desk is at the bottom, and after 20 years, I don't feel like I should be at the bottom.

    It might even be a good thing that I didn't get sucked into their security group. My previous supervisor got promoted to Security Officer for the entire state a few years back. The problem he has is that he has no authority. He can propose security projects, but no one is under him so managers are just free to ignore him. The security group I mentioned isn't even under him, just adjacent so based on my conversations with two people that did get put in that group is that it's the same thing. They argue that we should be doing X, Y, and Z to improve security, but it just goes unheeded. Pretty sure that if/when a breach occurs, they'd probably get all the blame though.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    You sound disgruntled about management rather than really wanting to go to the private sector. It sounds like you want a promotion.

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    You're not wrong about the disgruntled part. I'm not opposed at all to working for private sector. I'm just acknowledging that the environment/culture may be completely foreign to me since I've always worked for gov't.

    As for promotion, yeah, I was pissed when my promotion got cancelled because of the consolidation, but no one really works for state gov't because of the lucrative pay. Even if the promotion went through, it would have been a tiny increase in pay and nothing life changing.

    The main thing is that it feels like the fall of rome around here. We used to get things done relatively quickly. People would ask me about working for gov't, joking that it was all bureaucracy and I would defend it and say it was nothing like that. Sure we didn't have a large budget, but I felt like we kept pace and were proactive. Now, I *would* say all the negative memes about gov't having their heads up their behind apply under the new management. Things that I would do on my own in a day or two now get shifted into a bizarro ticketing system where the work gets spread around to multiple departments, taking 3 times longer or more and they still don't quite get it done right. All the while management pats themselves on the back, proclaiming how efficient everything is and I'm having an Inigo Montoya moment about words not meaning what they think they mean.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Since it sounds like there is no pressing threat to your job you can work to get your skills up to speed in your spare time. Can you get your work to pay for certifications for you?

    Smrtnik
  • BasarBasar IstanbulRegistered User regular
    I highly recommend AWS certifications if you are planning on getting any. You can prepare for them with free or very cheap material online and the tests themselves are not as expensive as some tests of the past. Having 4 out of 7 certs helped me land my current job.

    i live in a country with a batshit crazy president and no, english is not my first language

    schussHeir
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2018
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Can anyone point me to good resume advice for an IT job? Do I need to go gussied up in a suit and tie again?

    Yes.

    A good general rule of thumb is to dress one step nicer than the job's dress code. If the dress code is super casual with jeans and flip-flops, wear slacks and a button-down shirt. If the dress code is business casual, show up in a suit.

    If unsure, err on the side of a suit.
    VoodooV wrote: »
    I'd like to get into security field. My main field of expertise is support/administration of Windows desktops and servers. I got my A+ cert a long time ago, it was supposed to be a lifetime cert, but I'm not sure if it's even valid anymore. I'm good with building images, group policy, and configuration management but I'm not an MCSE. I have some old certs from the Novell days, but again, I'm guessing I shouldn't be putting stuff like that on a modern resume.

    Start by building a generic resume. There are lots and lots of resume templates online, and if you're completely lost, hire somebody.

    I do recommend using a resume template with a "skills" or "qualification" section where you can just list a bunch of keywords relevant to your skills (in addition to the typical job history and education sections).

    When you find a job where you want to apply, make a new copy of your resume and tailor it to that company. Don't lie, but emphasize the specific skills and experience relevant to that particular job posting.

    I'd also start working on some certs. If you want to do security, starting with the entry-level CompTIA+ Network+ and Security+ isn't a bad plan.

    There's also some good advice in this recent thread in H/A: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/217896/it-careers-security-or-developer/p1

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Since it sounds like there is no pressing threat to your job you can work to get your skills up to speed in your spare time. Can you get your work to pay for certifications for you?

    It's been a while, but when I did my A+ cert. They reimbursed me for the cost of the test voucher, assuming I passed of course, but nothing for the training materials. Speaking of which, I did check and my A+ is still valid. This has spurred a renewed interest in Network+ Security+ I tried out CompTIA's free trial of their CertMaster and I was pleased that I got most of the answers right on their Security+ sample questions right out of the gate. I'm just not looking forward to the expense and the time investment outside of work. I'm usually very good at testing, I just tend to be fairly anal about such things and over-prepare. I don't try to simply pass them, I try to ace them

    I'll have to take a look though and find out if the state even offers reimbursement anymore, that was long before we had our budget issues. We used to get a week of instructor led training every couple years or so, but that's long gone.

    After much gnashing of teeth and procrastinating, I did get my resume updated, I used a template on ResumeGenius. Is it still the rule that you should keep your resume within one page? There were a few other things I wanted to add in but it would have pushed it to multiple pages. I figured they weren't super important and I could just mention them in any potential interviews. With some help from a friend, I got a cover letter written too. I called up the office of that Security Analyst position I was interested in and asked for the name of the hiring manager so that I didn't have to use "To whom it may concern" so hopefully that's a nice touch. I found this job on indeed.com so I got my resume and cover letter uploaded and applied for the job a few hours ago, so we'll see what happens next week. It looks like the job got reposted. I discovered the position and the site said the posting was a week and a half old. I checked again shortly after it was two weeks old and the posting then said it was only 2 days old, but everything else was the same, so I'm interpreting that to mean that either no one applied, or no one qualified applied.

    Upon the advice of previously mentioned friend, When asked for a desired salary, since I work for the state, I added 10K to what I currently make as an "opening bid" that will get whittled down. At this point, I don't think I'd give a damn if they offered me the same salary I have now.

    Work continues to be a goose-storm. On top of deploying 40 new laptops, building a new server to hold Federal data, and we need to update a major application, just got notified that a 2nd major application will be updated, right during our busy season too where our users are really under the gun to get stuff done and thus, they do not like major changes during this time. And they apparently want me to take lead on rolling this out. This is on top of our average help desk daily "putting out of the fires" work. We used to be a 5 person staff supporting 400+ users. 2 of those people got moved over to other departments because of the consolidation, 1 person retired and we weren't allowed to refill the position. So now it's just me and one other guy. He's a nice guy, but I think he's just waiting for retirement too, so he isn't very proactive on anything and I have to hold his hand on a lot of stuff. Because our new supervisor from this consolidation is in a completely different agency, we never get any support from her and it's just us two handling all support requests. We did get a new guy assigned to us to help us out, but he's only there part time, and I'm still training him on stuff specific to our agency. He's competent, but just the time sink in getting him up to speed on everything...on top of everything else we have to do. It's just getting nuts.

    I was talking with one the guys who got into that Security and Compliance group that I was trying to get into, but got denied. He's one of two people....for the entire state doing security and compliance. They're swamped. He told me he even name-dropped me to his supervisor, trying to get them to bring me in just to ease the workload....denied of course. I think I'm to the point where even if something crazy happened and they offered me a position there, I think I'd still look for employment elsewhere. I think they've demonstrated that they're just not good people to work for and I need to get out.

  • RadiationRadiation Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Upon the advice of previously mentioned friend, When asked for a desired salary, since I work for the state, I added 10K to what I currently make as an "opening bid" that will get whittled down. At this point, I don't think I'd give a damn if they offered me the same salary I have now.

    Sate/Fed employees tend to get paid less for lots of reasons, but a big one is the retirement package. So, I'd add a bit more to be talked down. Or look to see what the position averages on glassdoor in your area. Also don't expect raises in that job so make sure the salary you negotiate now is acceptable for the next 5 years.
    But mostly try not to say the first number if at all possible. If it comes up, say something like you'd need time to consider it (as it'd be an adjustment going from State to not State work).

    PSN: jfrofl
    Heir
  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »

    After much gnashing of teeth and procrastinating, I did get my resume updated, I used a template on ResumeGenius. Is it still the rule that you should keep your resume within one page? There were a few other things I wanted to add in but it would have pushed it to multiple pages. I figured they weren't super important and I could just mention them in any potential interviews. With some help from a friend, I got a cover letter written too. I called up the office of that Security Analyst position I was interested in and asked for the name of the hiring manager so that I didn't have to use "To whom it may concern" so hopefully that's a nice touch. I found this job on indeed.com so I got my resume and cover letter uploaded and applied for the job a few hours ago, so we'll see what happens next week. It looks like the job got reposted. I discovered the position and the site said the posting was a week and a half old. I checked again shortly after it was two weeks old and the posting then said it was only 2 days old, but everything else was the same, so I'm interpreting that to mean that either no one applied, or no one qualified applied.

    On the topic of resume length, it's been my personal opinion that anyone with 10-15+ years experience in the relevant industry can get away with 1.5-2 pages for a resume. However, the only time though it should ever go to a third is for the types that need to cite all of their published articles.

    Feral
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Got my first interview this afternoon! Phone interview so no worries about dress. Wish me luck!

    ElvenshaeKen OmcpGnizmoRadiationBrodyCambiata3lwap0Heir
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    I think it went very well. It was just an introductory interview with just their HR person. The conversation was very smooth and there didn't seem to be any awkwardness. They did ask a number of technical questions to gauge my knowledge and there were only two I didn't know (one was something about how you would describe a "next generation firewall" and the other was about syn flood attack where all I could say was that other than it being related to DOS attacks, I didn't know anything beyond that) But they seem to be a very training-friendly environment so I'm hoping those deficiencies won't kill my chances. I had explained to them earlier that another agency handled all of our core networking so my lack of knowledge in that area matched up with that

    But what really seemed to go well is that they would ask me how I would describe the most productive work environment, and how I would describe a good supervisor/manager. After I gave my descriptions, the HR person would talk about their work culture and it felt like she was basically repeating everything I just described so hopefully that won me some points.

    They did tell me that it would probably be 2-3 weeks before they made a decision. I'm also assuming that if they do like me that there will be a 2nd interview. So I just have to hold on and wait some more.

    Overall it's just a relief to get through the first time jitters.

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    heh, after looking up the wikipedia definition of a next gen firewall, perhaps I should have attempted to bullshit an answer. (probably good that I didn't :) ) I didn't realize that those types of services were considered "next gen" I assumed that those kinds of things were standard for over a decade.

    BouwsT
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Holy cats! Called back already for a 2nd interview in person next week! Time to break out the new button down shirts I bought a few weeks ago and make an appt with the stylist for a touchup.

    Resolving myself to find a new job has definitely pulled me out of my funk a bit. Even if I don't get this particular job, just knowing that I should eventually find something that will allow me to escape my current situation in the near future has brightened my mood considerably. Think I was going through some form of mild depression for a bit there.

    AiouaCelestialBadgermRahmaniRadiationJaysonFourYoutubeBrodykimeJoe Camacho MKIIJansonFryspool32NeadenGrobianCambiataHeirMrGrimoire
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    My interview policy is always go one step up from the daily dress for the company

    They wear business casual put on a sports coat

    people walking around in tshirt? I dress hirt and khakis will do

    schuss
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Trying to figure out interview clothes is the absolute worst. At some point I just decided to say fuck it, and everything is slacks, button down shirt, and a tie. Its always too warm to wear a coat anyways.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Slacks/nice shirt/jacket is pretty safe,as if you feel dressed up it's easy to ditch the jacket by hanging on a chair.

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    I've been checking out the company's facebook page and every time I see a video their staff is almost always in tshirt and shorts/jeans. The only people I've seen in button down shirts have been the higher ups. I occasionally see pictures of them in a company polo, but that's not unexpected. My current work dress is casual button down shirt/polo and jeans w/ tshirts on friday. So yeah, I'm going with slacks and button down shirt. They are in the wash right now since one of the shirts is brand new and hasn't been worn yet.

    Trying to just relax and chill since the interview is tomorrow. but I also want to keep reviewing their job description so I can stay focused on their objectives, and at the same time, remind myself of everything I wrote on my resume (damn thing is still freshly updated after all) and just remind myself of how I can connect the dots from what I can to do their job requirements and just overall remind myself of things I've accomplished at my current job. During the phone interview, one of their questions was about what I thought of when it came to security best practices and recited as many SANS 20 critical controls I could remember off the top of my head (I think I only remembered 5-6 on the spot) and they seemed kinda impressed with that so I was going to review that. They also mentioned that CIS had a security controls document too so I thought it might be worthwhile to take a look at that.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Also, make sure to keenly listen and respond to the questions they ask in the interview. I had many interviews where the person answered a different question than I asked because they expected a different question. Clarify if needed, remember this is as much about "can we work together" as it is a skills assessment.

    VoodooV
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Think it went pretty well. Again I seemed to fit into their culture pretty well. For the most part, things seemed pretty casual and conversational. I definitely had some jitters though so I felt pretty awkward at times. The biggest thing that was weird to me was that the hiring manager asked me like 4 of the same questions that the HR person asked me in the first interview. He said he listened to the recording of the phone interview, but I just went with it and answered the questions again. Made me wonder if it wasn't a test to see if I'd point it out. My lack of experience with firewalls and switches came up again but I think that was the only negative against me and they didn't seem to think it was a big deal either since they seem so big on training. When they were done they asked me if I had any questions and I gave them about 3..but even after that. He asked me if I had anymore and he just had this tone where it seemed like he was expecting more questions from me.

    and yeah @schuss, that sort of thing did come up. They phrased a couple questions in a vague way so I asked for clarification a couple times so that worked out well. And yeah, it definitely felt like more of a personality test than a skills assessment.

    They said they still had about a week of more interviews, so I wouldn't know until after then. Sounded like there could be a 3rd interview where I'd meet more of the team and their higher ups. (My attorney friend has told me many times of interviews he's been on where they've had multiple rounds, but this is the first time I've been involved in a interviewing process with multiple rounds. They also mentioned there were two positions open, but made it sound like there would be more later on...so I'd like to believe my chances are good.

    I have twice the length of experience they were looking for.
    I am experienced with security concepts and controls.
    I seem to fit with their culture.
    I think the only real black mark against me is my lack of experience with switches/firewalls. So I'm hoping my chances are above average.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    They intentionally ask the same questions to see if your answers vary widely.

    I got asked at my last job interview about more questions, and internally just wanted to say "Will I be paid for my work? Good, that's exactly what I'm looking for." I'm not here to learn about the intimate workings of this job, because if you don't want to hire me, I don't want to waste effort learning shit I won't care about in a week.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    It's also because HR generally aren't great at follow up questions, so they can dig a bit on interesting things.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    The simplest reason might be that they forgot they already asked those questions.

    VoodooVCommander ZoomElvenshae
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Well I still haven't heard back from them. I know that anything could still happen, but I'm going to start looking at other jobs here soon. (I know I shouldn't have focused on just this one job, but hey, I really wanted it)

    So here's a fun little wrinkle. My, technically, former supervisor just told me that the agency I work for is posting a project manager position specifically for cyber security matters. I know nothing about being a project manager, but I'm familiar with our agency's security issues and requirements. So...I'm going to apply for it. I mean why not? I think I'm still done with the state, so I'm still going to look for work elsewhere, but hey, If I get it, It will get me back to my agency and out of the central agency that consolidated me because that's turning more and more into a CF, it's a pay increase, and even if I get it and still get the first job I applied for, hey, it's still a feather in my cap.

    And if I don't get it...no skin off my back and I still continue my job search elsewhere.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    I'd just throw out that the average person should probably expect to apply to 50-100 jobs before getting one. Not that that is the exact, precise number so much as it'll definitely happen to some and you might as well view job hunting as a long term project rather than a quick search.

    This also means don't stop applying for jobs just because you have what you think is a solid lead. Just keep on applying.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    Also, not sure if you stuck to institutional (fed, state, municipal), but if you did, it can take a ridonkulous amount of time for a job to process, even if you were a superstar in the interview. I still remember that I effectively had to quit my job and give notice AND wait almost two months before I got hired on where I am now (municipal/state). The HR gears just grind WAY slower on this side (which I'm sure you've seen being a fed). Good luck!

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Had another phone interview today with a civil engineering/design firm for a security specialist position. They've got a good reputation in regards to their work environment. I think it went well. Apparently they're going to send me one of those Harrison assessments. I think I took one of those a long time ago.

    The first job I applied for still hasn't contacted me. The job is *still* posted. So on one hand, wtf? But on the other hand, hey they haven't contacted me to tell me I didn't get it. So there's that. I assume they had something happened that caused them to postpone everything. A few weeks ago I sent them a short email asking for an update (and again thanking them for the interview). They haven't responded.

    Still haven't heard back from anyone regarding the internal project manager position. Not really holding my breath since I don't have any project manager experience. Just figured it is worth a shot.

    VoodooV on
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    My current workplace has doubled down on lean six sigma and are doing morning "huddles" (aka meetings, but hey, let's be stupid and use a different word) every morning. A couple weeks ago I had to go through a half day of "training" to become yellow belt certified. The test was a joke. It seemed very cult-like. One group decided to do their huddle right in our work area...while we're trying to actually do actual work *gasp*

    the sheer lunacy of it all. I can tell the supervisors think it's just as stupid as I do, but no one pushes back.

    Aridhol
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Our organization is doing the LEAN thing as well.
    In principle it works great when you get individuals doing it within their own group/dept but when you try to swoop in everywhere to "find opportunities" it's just a fucking shitshow.

    I am also "Yellow Belt" certified which consisted of 6 hours of web video training and a test. It was not bad but I'm not some magic business wizard now and the company isn't magically open to change so.....


    Edit: Sorry, not just ranting. It's an actual thing that LEAN is being pushed in so many organizations now that you cannot escape it. Get used to it and talk the talk.

    Aridhol on
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    I work for a state revenue agency. We’ve got a lot of minimally trained people doing monotonous tedious data entry and tax processing work. In theory, six sigma could be beneficial there because it is very much like an assembly line. But in IT? Where no two situations are the same and creative thinking is required? Nope.

    What’s worse is that nothing has really changed. Just terminology. It’s not meetings, it’s huddles. It’s not coworkers, its teammates. They keep talking about eliminating waste, but it’s all just show. I discovered that our new ticketing system does a bunch of extra logins behind the scenes. So if you goof up your password, you can get locked out in one failed attempt instead of the usual 3. That’s wasteful. Nothing changes. It gets blamed on our increased security requirements.

    They whine about wasteful spending, but they dump all their money into this, creating a lot of high paid positions facilitating the six sigma way and they’re just cheerleaders trying to tell people who know nothing about their job..how to do their job.

  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    But VoodooV, we've moved the printer and trash cans so that people can move around the office 3% quicker!

    ElvenshaeVoodooV
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Aridhol wrote: »
    But VoodooV, we've moved the printer and trash cans so that people can move around the office 3% quicker!

    dude, that actually did happen recently with one of our printers.

    Which is ironic, because before all of this LSS nonsense happened, with only a few, exceptions, almost all of our printers were moved to fewer, more central locations specifically to reduce the number of printers we owned because someone said it was wasteful to buy so many printers because they are expensive to buy and maintain. Now we seem to be undoing that, buying more printers and putting them closer to groups of users, because "wah walking a few extra steps is hard!" Not to mention the push to be more paperless, which seems to have failed here.

    VoodooV on
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    There's nothing wrong with LSS as long as you're sensible about it. The problem lies in many just implementing the easy stuff with no rigor or understanding why, which just creates more waste.

    tynic
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    It's stupid because it's redundant and it's an attempt to ritualize something that doesn't need to be ritualized. I don't care *how* you arrive to the conclusion that something could be done better, what matters is that you made something better. If you've done something repeatedly, and took two seconds to think about it and realize "hey, I could do it better/faster/etc if I do it differently" Then you've accomplished on your own what organizations spent way too much money on to make themselves falsely feel like they've accomplished something with LSS.

    And even you do think in LSS's terms of eliminating waste and increasing efficiency which most people already do naturally if you care even the tiniest about how well you do your job, guess what, the terms "waste" and "efficiency" are totally subjective in the eyes of the beholder. Then you're just back to pre-existing situation where you've got a worker with an idea (maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, it's irrelevant) and a supervisor/manager who accepts or rejects that idea, again maybe for good reasons, maybe for bad reasons. LSS doesn't magically make it more likely for objectively good ideas to be accepted and objectively bad ideas rejected. As we just described above. The supposed "savings" and self-congratulations of moving a printer closer to people, is outweighed by the fact there was a reason the printer was in it's more centralized location in the first place and the cost savings of not having to buy expensive printers and spend maintenance on said printers and re-evaluating on whether or not you need to print at all far outweighs any extra time wasted walking a few extra steps. In addition, you don't need LSS to decide to move printers, you can make that decision all on your own. It's perceived value, it's not actual value.

    The irony about LSS in it's supposed quest to eliminate waste is that it is, itself, a waste. People and businesses have been making changes and improvements on their own for all of history. Don't need a certification for that.

    Smrtnik
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Those are indicators the org is doing it wrong, as it should be an empowering exercise to let you take a machete to stupid process, not codify the hierarchy as Superior to common sense.
    There's a bunch of practices that can feel excessive, but often those are geared to spots where people in the same group don't even talk.
    At the end of the day, it's just a methodology and it can't fix serious structural, organizational or cultural issues. I'm sorry you have to deal with cargo cult LSS

    tynicElvenshaeSmrtnik
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Got a 2nd interview set for Monday! This time I'm meeting with HR and three other people, presumably from their IT team. Ordered some more dress pants since my current ones are a little short.

    VoodooV on
    RadiationAridholschussStraygatsbydispatch.oGONG-00CiriraElvenshaeSkeithJanson
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Interview went pretty well. This company is just starting to build a security program and the position is brand new and not replacing anyone who left so this could be a good opportunity to get in on the ground floor of their program. If I read their expressions right, I think I may have threw a couple security concepts at them that they hadn't considered so I hope that impressed them.

    When I got done with the interview, I checked my phone and I missed a call, it was my current workplace calling me for an interview for that new internal security project manager position I applied for, which I'm less enthusiastic about since I want to get out of there regardless, but hey, an interview is an interview. We're playing phone tag right now (taking a couple weeks off right now so I'm chilling at home)

    VoodooV on
    davidsdurionsRadiationBouwsTjjae2123
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Sadly, they got a hold of me a couple weeks ago and let me know they went with someone else. Compared to the first job I applied for, who still hasn't gotten back to me and still has the job posted..and still hasn't posted on their FB page that they hired someone, it was actually a relief actually knowing I didn't get it. Didn't get that other job at my workplace I mentioned in my last post either, but I was kinda expecting that. Felt compelled to apply since some of the job duties are basically my old job duties.

    I've applied for another security analyst position a couple weeks ago, but no word there yet. Applied for two more jobs last weekend, but these two are not security positions but I feel I'm at the point where I'm just ready to get out of my current job bad enough that I'm willing to accept jobs of lesser responsibility as long as the pay is comparable. One of them already got ahold of me for a phone interview

    VoodooV on
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