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[BATTLETECH/MechWarrior] Old thread, like the carcass of a cored-out Locust.
LokiDon't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Glitch has been in a Vindicator for quite a while now. She seems to be a beast with its PPC, so much so that I just managed to find a PPC++ for sale, bought it and fitted it.
I read earlier someone saying PPCs are garbage. They're totally not, at least for me. You can't just spam them on a mech, and need to leave it disabled until you're ready to take the heat, but if you've got someone that's a great shot they can really dish out damage.
Glitch has been in a Vindicator for quite a while now. She seems to be a beast with its PPC, so much so that I just managed to find a PPC++ for sale, bought it and fitted it.
I read earlier someone saying PPCs are garbage. They're totally not, at least for me. You can't just spam them on a mech, and need to leave it disabled until you're ready to take the heat, but if you've got someone that's a great shot they can really dish out damage.
PPCs can be fun to use early on when they blow up locations and you can mitigate the heat they generate by the engine's 10 inbuilt heatsinks, but later on when you can fit more weapons on a mech and PPC no longer destroys locations in one hit they just aren't good. I hope they do a weapon balance patch soon, right now LLs and PPCs generate way too much heat.
LokiDon't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Eh, the rate I play by the time I reach a point where they aren't useful there will have been a dozen balance updates.
0
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
edited May 2018
The only thing that the reddit post doesn't really address is limitations of hardpoints. If you have a mech with 2 ballistic slots, and a few energy slots, you're better off with AC5x2+PPC than you are 3-4xML. Yannow?
The only thing that the reddit post doesn't really address is limitations of hardpoints. If you have a mech with 2 ballistic slots, and a few energy slots, you're better off with AC5x2+PPC than you are 3-4xML. Yannow?
Or more like any mech with really limited hardpoints is a mech that gets put into storage and sold. :P
In practice I'd go with AC5s and MLs in such situation though. PPCs just generate too much heat so you can't fire them constantly and given you tend to be against 2:1 odds in any mission that matters you need to be able to keep on firing every turn. I guess if you stand in a polar biome lake then it's not too bad, but a lot of the missions are in desert/martian/lunar landscapes.
0
LokiDon't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Well I mean if you’re at the point where you have your pick of mechs in the campaign, you’ve put enough hours into the game to be able to minmax like that.
Me, I’ve not even gotten past the second story mission. I’m happy to try minmaxing my campaign mechs next year some time.
0
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
The only thing that the reddit post doesn't really address is limitations of hardpoints. If you have a mech with 2 ballistic slots, and a few energy slots, you're better off with AC5x2+PPC than you are 3-4xML. Yannow?
Or more like any mech with really limited hardpoints is a mech that gets put into storage and sold. :P
In practice I'd go with AC5s and MLs in such situation though. PPCs just generate too much heat so you can't fire them constantly and given you tend to be against 2:1 odds in any mission that matters you need to be able to keep on firing every turn. I guess if you stand in a polar biome lake then it's not too bad, but a lot of the missions are in desert/martian/lunar landscapes.
When you have a stable full of every mech in the game and you just bring ML/SRM Battlemasters and such to every fight, that's fine. But as the game seems to tailor the tonnage you face depending on what you bring, bringing all the assaults just leads to really boring slugfests that have no finesse or strategy to them. Plus, if you're in the early to midgame, your options for this sort of build are Centurions, Trebuchets and Shadowhawks with MLs/SRMs, and your heavier mechs are going to have to mount at least one big weapon or they just won't make tonnage, like the Thunderbolt, Catapult or Orion.
Also, you'll get absolutely roflstomped if you tried taking that into skirmish mode vs people. Sure, everyone is going to run 1-2 ML/SRM boats because they DO output so much damage, but you'll get horribly outranged/outmaneuvered if that's all you bring.
I'm honestly enjoying more mid-range engagements where I force the enemy into kill-corridors or make them advance over open ground to pepper them with AC5/PPC/LRM fire and that's really effective.
tl;dr while MLs and SRM4s and LRM15/20 are the most efficient weapons per tonnage, using just those gets REAL BORING and the extra range on PPC/AC5 is actually good. Also AC10 have a place as headhunter weapons, but sure AC20 are better.
The only thing that the reddit post doesn't really address is limitations of hardpoints. If you have a mech with 2 ballistic slots, and a few energy slots, you're better off with AC5x2+PPC than you are 3-4xML. Yannow?
Or more like any mech with really limited hardpoints is a mech that gets put into storage and sold. :P
In practice I'd go with AC5s and MLs in such situation though. PPCs just generate too much heat so you can't fire them constantly and given you tend to be against 2:1 odds in any mission that matters you need to be able to keep on firing every turn. I guess if you stand in a polar biome lake then it's not too bad, but a lot of the missions are in desert/martian/lunar landscapes.
When you have a stable full of every mech in the game and you just bring ML/SRM Battlemasters and such to every fight, that's fine. But as the game seems to tailor the tonnage you face depending on what you bring, bringing all the assaults just leads to really boring slugfests that have no finesse or strategy to them. Plus, if you're in the early to midgame, your options for this sort of build are Centurions, Trebuchets and Shadowhawks with MLs/SRMs, and your heavier mechs are going to have to mount at least one big weapon or they just won't make tonnage, like the Thunderbolt, Catapult or Orion.
Also, you'll get absolutely roflstomped if you tried taking that into skirmish mode vs people. Sure, everyone is going to run 1-2 ML/SRM boats because they DO output so much damage, but you'll get horribly outranged/outmaneuvered if that's all you bring.
I'm honestly enjoying more mid-range engagements where I force the enemy into kill-corridors or make them advance over open ground to pepper them with AC5/PPC/LRM fire and that's really effective.
tl;dr while MLs and SRM4s and LRM15/20 are the most efficient weapons per tonnage, using just those gets REAL BORING and the extra range on PPC/AC5 is actually good. Also AC10 have a place as headhunter weapons, but sure AC20 are better.
People overrate range in this game. Fog of war, small map sizes, terrain, and the mobility of mechs have made it so brawling is going to crap on anything and everything (except lrm spam, which is ridiculously strong).
I experimented with a ton of stuff early on, and then I suddenly noticed that I was using mgs, sls, mls, srms, and (only on much heavier mechs) ac20s on everything.
Lasers and Projectiles seem much easier to focus fire on locations correct?
If you are using precision strike or called shot, missiles hit the chosen location just as well (except LRMs to head, that's a bit of a special case). If you are just randomly firing at an enemy mech, then big weapons have the advantage of giving you a possibility of punching through the armor in one random location. I had a Demolisher tank hit two AC20s on my standing heavy mech's CT - had to remove it from the frontline even though it had pristine armor everywhere else. That's the sort of thing you don't get with missiles.
SRMs and MGs have one added benefit over other weapons - they roll for the chance to hit enemy head for every hit, giving a high chance of headshots. LRMs just check once with the first missile of every salvo, if that hits then the other missiles from that weapon can hit the head as well but it means if you fire 3-4 LRM launchers on enemy chances of getting a random headshot aren't very high.
I think the game’s biggest problem right now is precision strike. It just scales so hard with ++weapons, uber pilots, and high morale. But it seems like they’ve balanced the game around it, so have fun trying to win a 4v8 or 4v12 without that shit.
It kind of reminds me of the mimic beacon in xcom2 where you know you’re crutching on something stupid and broken, but you have no idea how you’d complete some of the ridiculous timed missions that rng craps on you in the latter portions of the game without it.
biscuitbutt81 on
0
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I feel like I've gotten a pretty good feel for ways to build mechs in this game that are fun and useful, if not min-maxed to perfection, but man I do not have the first idea how to kit out a Battlemaster (BLR-1G, not sure if there's another variant in here). The obvious route seems to be MLaser spam, but that seems super dull and kinda bad given how important stability damage is. Thoughts?
@shalmelo I downgraded the thing's PPC to a LL+ and used the new spare tonnage to get an extra heat sink and more armor and it's been a key part of my lance ever since.
edit: when I got some double heat sinks, I slapped a couple in there as well. Now it can alpha two or three times before needing to slow down. It's a coring machine.
I srtipped all the double heatsinks off my Highlander and put them in a triple PPC Awesome, and now it can fire for days.
McGibs on
+6
FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
edited May 2018
So I saw a little discussion on skill picks earlier, and while I agree that Bulwark is fantastic, I just dont see Multishot and the level 8 Gunnery skill as mandatory, or even that important unless they're being used for LRM boats which I think they're great for. The AI isn't exactly that into bracing very much on its own, it will nearly always do something else even when it should brace instead, and they'll only have Bulwark themselves sometimes as a skill. Even after all that, it's only for a single shot on a single weapon, which is obviously made workable with specific builds/multishot, but...
Having at least one person (my main character) with master tactician has been absolutely gamechanging for basically any mech (with any spec) he chooses to pilot, though, especially if it is an assault/heavy. it lets you pull all kinds of black magic shit off, and has a nice stability buff on top of it. The tactics line itself is also just very good on its own. Most of all, unlike Breaching Shot it doesn't rely on me needing a solution to a specific problem, which relies on an enemy to in a certain stance - it's always of stellar benefit. The only bad thing about it is that I had to take sensor lock to get to it. I'm not a minmaxer by any means, I just wanted my main guy to be the tactician/heavy hitter.
Not that breaching shot or multishot are bad, they're both quite good, I just think master tactician is incredible. I'm sure many have figured that out and do use, but like I said, not a number cruncher or minmaxer or anything. I might take multishot as my last skill, because I use a crazy AC20 and medium lasers and I think that would let me get even more creative, even. Bulwark is looking mighty fine, though...
Frei on
Are you the magic man?
0
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
People overrate range in this game. Fog of war, small map sizes, terrain, and the mobility of mechs have made it so brawling is going to crap on anything and everything (except lrm spam, which is ridiculously strong).
I experimented with a ton of stuff early on, and then I suddenly noticed that I was using mgs, sls, mls, srms, and (only on much heavier mechs) ac20s on everything.
Conversely, I think people underrate range and terrain advantage in this game. There have been precious few maps where I've not been able to perch PPC mechs on a ridge and force the enemy to approach along a ramp, exposing them to turn after turn of withering big chunks of damage. That said, I'm pretty sure I could also manipulate the battlefield to force them to turn a corner straight into a mech bristling with medium lasers and SRMs to much the same effect, but I favour mediums and heavies over assaults as a rule, and AC5s/PPCs with LRMs just make more sense on mechs that don't have 6+ energy hardpoints etc.
Different people playing the game in different ways, etc. I -do- agree that Precision Shot, high Morale and Morale boosting equipment is ridiculous, however. I built up my morale early with lavish wages and I don't regret it at all. Heading into a battle at 50 morale is pretty much gamebreaking, even without bugged pilots with endless High Spirits. (I hope that gets patched, I never bring Medusa since he got hit with that bug and it is gamebreaking).
Bulwark is ridiculous. Breaching Shot is good on some builds. Multishot is almost always useful. Piloting Ace is great on mobile strikes (fast mechs with lots of weapons that want to get in on a reserved turn, then alpha strike twice before running off with zero retaliation - reserving is good). Sensor Lock is sometimes useful, less so later in the game when pilots have natively higher gunnery. Master Tactician is so good, Juggernaut makes me sad.
So, started up an assassination mission. Made sure I had priority pick for 3 pieces, of course. This was right after the story mission that gives you an assault 'mech which, without spoiling it for anyone, is stupidly good at knockdown, so it was going to be knocking them on their asses as many times as necessary to knock them down.
At mission, dealing with the reinforcements (some heavy vehicles + a Jagger) when the target fired some LRMs from offscreen. Hmm, I think, what mech might that be? Didn't count the missiles, but it seemed more than just 15. Mouse over the sensor blip, and it says:
MECH, 100TON.
"YEEEEEEESSSS!!!"
and that's how Behemoth got her Atlas.
+17
FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
edited May 2018
Yeah Juggernaut is the only mastery skill I would say is actively not good for a mastery skill, but even I use it on my dedicated puncher/flamethrower just because it's fun to know that I'm disabling whatever mech I hit on this turn, bare minimum. even if I only push their initiative back, I'm breaking a part, overheating them, or shutting them down. (also flamethrowers look cool and that's half the reason I use things). it'd make way more sense if it had its place swapped with Bulwark in the tree.
Frei on
Are you the magic man?
0
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
If I was retooling the skills, I'd make Evasive Pilot add 'and Evasion pips do not degrade with shooting', I'd make Juggernaut also able to let you melee after sprinting, and I'd make Sensor Lock persist for a turn unless the sensor locked mech Braced to scrub its signature or what have you. I think that'd go a long way towards bringing up the 'less good' abilities.
I like PPCs on my battlemaster. I gave him 2, and loaded him with armor and heat sinks. I otherwise run a missile heavy lance. PPCs complement that a bit because I think PPCs affect enemy stability but lasers don't, is that right? Anyways, he's a useful addition to my lance, especially with sensor lock, as he's not going to be arcing shots anyways.
Right now I'm just moving into the Assault mech part of the game. So I have the free Highlander, and two battlemasters. I also field a trebuchet.
This game really starts to shine after you move out of the early game. Money becomes more reliable, you get better at tinkering with your mech builds, and you know the game a little bit better and the tricks you can take to swing fights in your direction.
So I saw a little discussion on skill picks earlier, and while I agree that Bulwark is fantastic, I just dont see Multishot and the level 8 Gunnery skill as mandatory, or even that important unless they're being used for LRM boats which I think they're great for. The AI isn't exactly that into bracing very much on its own, it will nearly always do something else even when it should brace instead, and they'll only have Bulwark themselves sometimes as a skill. Even after all that, it's only for a single shot on a single weapon, which is obviously made workable with specific builds/multishot, but...
Having at least one person (my main character) with master tactician has been absolutely gamechanging for basically any mech (with any spec) he chooses to pilot, though, especially if it is an assault/heavy. it lets you pull all kinds of black magic shit off, and has a nice stability buff on top of it. The tactics line itself is also just very good on its own. Most of all, unlike Breaching Shot it doesn't rely on me needing a solution to a specific problem, which relies on an enemy to in a certain stance - it's always of stellar benefit. The only bad thing about it is that I had to take sensor lock to get to it. I'm not a minmaxer by any means, I just wanted my main guy to be the tactician/heavy hitter.
Not that breaching shot or multishot are bad, they're both quite good, I just think master tactician is incredible. I'm sure many have figured that out and do use, but like I said, not a number cruncher or minmaxer or anything. I might take multishot as my last skill, because I use a crazy AC20 and medium lasers and I think that would let me get even more creative, even. Bulwark is looking mighty fine, though...
Multishot is great because it allows you to not "waste" a turn entirely on a mech that's going to either blow up or get knocked over by a stiff breeze, aiming only a couple of mlas or an LRM rack on them while focusing the rest on your next target. It's also great for dealing with the defensive thing that the AI does all the time; Evasion stacks. Strip them off one 'mech while focusing on another so that a heavier mech can alpha strike them out of existence when their turn comes up.
Breaching Shot is actually quite awesome not only for the occasional Bulwarked 'mech, but also for your scout. The AI, when it has detected you but can't actually see you or can move into range, does a move-brace until it can shoot at you. A fast 'mech with an AC/20 can close the final distance and fire that lovely weapon point-blank and kneecap the asshole. It's also better than Juggernaut, which is the other ability you can choose once you've gone Gunnery/Guts for your skills.
So I saw a little discussion on skill picks earlier, and while I agree that Bulwark is fantastic, I just dont see Multishot and the level 8 Gunnery skill as mandatory, or even that important unless they're being used for LRM boats which I think they're great for. The AI isn't exactly that into bracing very much on its own, it will nearly always do something else even when it should brace instead, and they'll only have Bulwark themselves sometimes as a skill. Even after all that, it's only for a single shot on a single weapon, which is obviously made workable with specific builds/multishot, but...
Having at least one person (my main character) with master tactician has been absolutely gamechanging for basically any mech (with any spec) he chooses to pilot, though, especially if it is an assault/heavy. it lets you pull all kinds of black magic shit off, and has a nice stability buff on top of it. The tactics line itself is also just very good on its own. Most of all, unlike Breaching Shot it doesn't rely on me needing a solution to a specific problem, which relies on an enemy to in a certain stance - it's always of stellar benefit. The only bad thing about it is that I had to take sensor lock to get to it. I'm not a minmaxer by any means, I just wanted my main guy to be the tactician/heavy hitter.
Not that breaching shot or multishot are bad, they're both quite good, I just think master tactician is incredible. I'm sure many have figured that out and do use, but like I said, not a number cruncher or minmaxer or anything. I might take multishot as my last skill, because I use a crazy AC20 and medium lasers and I think that would let me get even more creative, even. Bulwark is looking mighty fine, though...
Multishot is great because it allows you to not "waste" a turn entirely on a mech that's going to either blow up or get knocked over by a stiff breeze, aiming only a couple of mlas or an LRM rack on them while focusing the rest on your next target. It's also great for dealing with the defensive thing that the AI does all the time; Evasion stacks. Strip them off one 'mech while focusing on another so that a heavier mech can alpha strike them out of existence when their turn comes up.
Breaching Shot is actually quite awesome not only for the occasional Bulwarked 'mech, but also for your scout. The AI, when it has detected you but can't actually see you or can move into range, does a move-brace until it can shoot at you. A fast 'mech with an AC/20 can close the final distance and fire that lovely weapon point-blank and kneecap the asshole. It's also better than Juggernaut, which is the other ability you can choose once you've gone Gunnery/Guts for your skills.
Yeah again I agree with you on Multishot, my only angle is it's more situational than a skill I'd rather have, like Master Tactician/Bulwark or even MT/Multishot.
MY LRM mech has multishot/breaching and so I can handle the situation you describe with them very well. But yeah, if I already have Bulwark anyway, I'm definitely taking Breaching over Juggernaut because like I think everybody knows it's pretty bad for a level 8 skill. I took Juggernaut on my punchmech whose only lot in life is to punch/flamethrower things, which does very well, and Juggernaut is definitely helpful but as an 8 even it isn't the best for the thing it's made for. I mainly wanted to throw some praise on for Master Tactician, since I had seen a lot more talking about Breaching Shot.
also, still discovering things, didn't know that weapons mounted on your actual arm rather than, say, your forehead, are more accurate. This seems like it'd be a foregone conclusion but I had no idea. I've only ever seen a head hardpoint for single laser slot, I think, but the idea of having a ballistic slot on your forehead that had room for an AC is hilarious. snapping your own neck with your own shots.
The flip side of 'fixing' evasion the way folks are talking about is that it's going to be very hard for the player to hit any of the Locusts, Spiders, Jenners and Firestarters you face in the first 20-30 hours of the game. In an alternate universe where the game launched with non-degrading evasion pips, for example, I could see people slagging the game for low level pilots not being able to actually shoot anything.
Yeah I’m not sure if light vs assault balance is salvageable because they made light to assault the level up progression for the game.
Evasion pips not degrading would have to be tied to a high end skill to not destroy the balance of the early game.
They could also make it so you can generate more evasion stacks, like a higher max number. It’s easy for mediums to hit max evasion, and at that point why even consider lights?
Inquisitor on
+1
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Glitch has been in a Vindicator for quite a while now. She seems to be a beast with its PPC, so much so that I just managed to find a PPC++ for sale, bought it and fitted it.
I read earlier someone saying PPCs are garbage. They're totally not, at least for me. You can't just spam them on a mech, and need to leave it disabled until you're ready to take the heat, but if you've got someone that's a great shot they can really dish out damage.
PPCs can be fun to use early on when they blow up locations and you can mitigate the heat they generate by the engine's 10 inbuilt heatsinks, but later on when you can fit more weapons on a mech and PPC no longer destroys locations in one hit they just aren't good. I hope they do a weapon balance patch soon, right now LLs and PPCs generate way too much heat.
I agree with his energy and missile assessment but I think his ballistic arguments are very handwave-y. The range bands are an excellent reason to bring different ACs depending on what else that 'Mech is mounting, and the Gauss Rifle has huge stability damage, an enormous optimal range band, negligible heat, and no recoil (he also admits he only used it once so he probably didn't assess it too stringently). Also you can't really just go "for only 2 tons more!" when weight tolerances of 1-3 tons can absolutely make or break a build. Downgrading an AC/20 to an AC/10 to fit 2 more MLs on is 100% a good decision.
I honestly don't think evasion needs fixing. You max it out, with perks and everything, you get what, 6 pips? In a 4 v 4 multiplayer match where the other player has other crap to worry about, I'd consider that guy as protected as I'd want him to be.
The problem is that in an 8 or 12 v 4 single player session, where you've foolishly pushed that guy out in front, and allowed all the forces on the map to mass against you, no amount of evasion pips will save him. At that point you've gotta hope your armor holds and you can focus fire and core them as they come.
I honestly don't think evasion needs fixing. You max it out, with perks and everything, you get what, 6 pips? In a 4 v 4 multiplayer match where the other player has other crap to worry about, I'd consider that guy as protected as I'd want him to be.
The problem is that in an 8 or 12 v 4 single player session, where you've foolishly pushed that guy out in front, and allowed all the forces on the map to mass against you, no amount of evasion pips will save him. At that point you've gotta hope your armor holds and you can focus fire and core them as they come.
Like pretty much every videogame ever this game should have different rules for single player and multiplayer.
One set of rules is always going to leave the balance on one side of the game lackluster.
I honestly don't think evasion needs fixing. You max it out, with perks and everything, you get what, 6 pips? In a 4 v 4 multiplayer match where the other player has other crap to worry about, I'd consider that guy as protected as I'd want him to be.
The problem is that in an 8 or 12 v 4 single player session, where you've foolishly pushed that guy out in front, and allowed all the forces on the map to mass against you, no amount of evasion pips will save him. At that point you've gotta hope your armor holds and you can focus fire and core them as they come.
Like pretty much every videogame ever this game should have different rules for single player and multiplayer.
One set of rules is always going to leave the balance on one side of the game lackluster.
I mean... doesn't it have different rules? In Single Player you can go buck wild, bring 4 100 ton mechs, pilots with maxed out skills in every category, game breaking min maxed custom loadouts.
I haven't dicked around in Multiplayer yet, but I'm under the impression you have certain price limits on your lance? And a limited pilot selection?
Man, I really should give Multiplayer a spin now that I think about it. Going all heavies and assaults in the single player is getting a tad boring for me. I miss the parry and thrust of a solid 4 v 4 with mediums and lights.
I honestly don't think evasion needs fixing. You max it out, with perks and everything, you get what, 6 pips? In a 4 v 4 multiplayer match where the other player has other crap to worry about, I'd consider that guy as protected as I'd want him to be.
The problem is that in an 8 or 12 v 4 single player session, where you've foolishly pushed that guy out in front, and allowed all the forces on the map to mass against you, no amount of evasion pips will save him. At that point you've gotta hope your armor holds and you can focus fire and core them as they come.
Like pretty much every videogame ever this game should have different rules for single player and multiplayer.
One set of rules is always going to leave the balance on one side of the game lackluster.
I mean... doesn't it have different rules? In Single Player you can go buck wild, bring 4 100 ton mechs, pilots with maxed out skills in every category, game breaking min maxed custom loadouts.
I haven't dicked around in Multiplayer yet, but I'm under the impression you have certain price limits on your lance? And a limited pilot selection?
Man, I really should give Multiplayer a spin now that I think about it. Going all heavies and assaults in the single player is getting a tad boring for me. I miss the parry and thrust of a solid 4 v 4 with mediums and lights.
I mean the things like evasion or bulwark can and should function differently in singleplayer and multiplayer.
I honestly don't think evasion needs fixing. You max it out, with perks and everything, you get what, 6 pips? In a 4 v 4 multiplayer match where the other player has other crap to worry about, I'd consider that guy as protected as I'd want him to be.
The problem is that in an 8 or 12 v 4 single player session, where you've foolishly pushed that guy out in front, and allowed all the forces on the map to mass against you, no amount of evasion pips will save him. At that point you've gotta hope your armor holds and you can focus fire and core them as they come.
Like pretty much every videogame ever this game should have different rules for single player and multiplayer.
One set of rules is always going to leave the balance on one side of the game lackluster.
I mean... doesn't it have different rules? In Single Player you can go buck wild, bring 4 100 ton mechs, pilots with maxed out skills in every category, game breaking min maxed custom loadouts.
I haven't dicked around in Multiplayer yet, but I'm under the impression you have certain price limits on your lance? And a limited pilot selection?
Man, I really should give Multiplayer a spin now that I think about it. Going all heavies and assaults in the single player is getting a tad boring for me. I miss the parry and thrust of a solid 4 v 4 with mediums and lights.
I mean the things like evasion or bulwark can and should function differently in singleplayer and multiplayer.
But why? To protect players from their own excesses in single player? For every player that's complaining that certain skills make the game too easy, there are probably a dozen different players thinking they've found a really cool skill that is saving their butts.
I'm actually content to have the skills and weapons be balanced around multi-player, and let the single player fall where it may. At least within certain limits. If you grind and min max and train all 10's pilots, no amount of re balancing between single and multi player can stop that. Except to have the priority missions be honest to got priority missions which you must accept within a certain amount of time, or you lose.
I honestly don't think evasion needs fixing. You max it out, with perks and everything, you get what, 6 pips? In a 4 v 4 multiplayer match where the other player has other crap to worry about, I'd consider that guy as protected as I'd want him to be.
The problem is that in an 8 or 12 v 4 single player session, where you've foolishly pushed that guy out in front, and allowed all the forces on the map to mass against you, no amount of evasion pips will save him. At that point you've gotta hope your armor holds and you can focus fire and core them as they come.
Like pretty much every videogame ever this game should have different rules for single player and multiplayer.
One set of rules is always going to leave the balance on one side of the game lackluster.
I mean... doesn't it have different rules? In Single Player you can go buck wild, bring 4 100 ton mechs, pilots with maxed out skills in every category, game breaking min maxed custom loadouts.
I haven't dicked around in Multiplayer yet, but I'm under the impression you have certain price limits on your lance? And a limited pilot selection?
Man, I really should give Multiplayer a spin now that I think about it. Going all heavies and assaults in the single player is getting a tad boring for me. I miss the parry and thrust of a solid 4 v 4 with mediums and lights.
I mean the things like evasion or bulwark can and should function differently in singleplayer and multiplayer.
But why? To protect players from their own excesses in single player? For every player that's complaining that certain skills make the game too easy, there are probably a dozen different players thinking they've found a really cool skill that is saving their butts.
The complaint with evasion actually is that it should be better. In general when people mention evasion and bulwark, it's because they want those two styles to both be relevant. You should be able to defend yourself somewhat effectively with speed, or with raw toughness, which would immediately increase the later-game utility of both light mechs and medium mechs (since they send to rely on evasion more than their heavier counterparts)
People say bulwark is too good and they might be right but in general people just want the two options to both be viable.
I honestly don't think evasion needs fixing. You max it out, with perks and everything, you get what, 6 pips? In a 4 v 4 multiplayer match where the other player has other crap to worry about, I'd consider that guy as protected as I'd want him to be.
The problem is that in an 8 or 12 v 4 single player session, where you've foolishly pushed that guy out in front, and allowed all the forces on the map to mass against you, no amount of evasion pips will save him. At that point you've gotta hope your armor holds and you can focus fire and core them as they come.
Like pretty much every videogame ever this game should have different rules for single player and multiplayer.
One set of rules is always going to leave the balance on one side of the game lackluster.
I mean... doesn't it have different rules? In Single Player you can go buck wild, bring 4 100 ton mechs, pilots with maxed out skills in every category, game breaking min maxed custom loadouts.
I haven't dicked around in Multiplayer yet, but I'm under the impression you have certain price limits on your lance? And a limited pilot selection?
Man, I really should give Multiplayer a spin now that I think about it. Going all heavies and assaults in the single player is getting a tad boring for me. I miss the parry and thrust of a solid 4 v 4 with mediums and lights.
I mean the things like evasion or bulwark can and should function differently in singleplayer and multiplayer.
But why? To protect players from their own excesses in single player? For every player that's complaining that certain skills make the game too easy, there are probably a dozen different players thinking they've found a really cool skill that is saving their butts.
The complaint with evasion actually is that it should be better. In general when people mention evasion and bulwark, it's because they want those two styles to both be relevant. You should be able to defend yourself somewhat effectively with speed, or with raw toughness, which would immediately increase the later-game utility of both light mechs and medium mechs (since they send to rely on evasion more than their heavier counterparts)
People say bulwark is too good and they might be right but in general people just want the two options to both be viable.
But I've found evasion to be plenty good, unless I'm an idiot?
Like, I still use a Grasshopper. I usually put someone with the Evasive boost in him, and with piloting maxed out to really keep those pips up. I'll Jump Jet around and almost always have 6 evasive pips. And for a while, that made me cocky. I'd have him as my extreme forward scout, spotting for my missile boat and Highlander.
Then he got knocked down and cored out one round, and almost cored out a second around, because I was being too aggressive with him, leaving him way too far forward, with the entire enemy forces having LOS to him, and being their only target.
6 evasive pips is amazing, but it's not, nor should it be, that amazing. I shouldn't be able to dance someone around an entire enemy lance going "Nana nana nanaaaaa, you can't touch me!" Much less 2 enemy lances I've failed to approach and take one at a time.
So are we complaining about evasion, or is evasion the proxy by which we complain that lights and mediums aren't useful in the single player end game?
I honestly don't think evasion needs fixing. You max it out, with perks and everything, you get what, 6 pips? In a 4 v 4 multiplayer match where the other player has other crap to worry about, I'd consider that guy as protected as I'd want him to be.
The problem is that in an 8 or 12 v 4 single player session, where you've foolishly pushed that guy out in front, and allowed all the forces on the map to mass against you, no amount of evasion pips will save him. At that point you've gotta hope your armor holds and you can focus fire and core them as they come.
Like pretty much every videogame ever this game should have different rules for single player and multiplayer.
One set of rules is always going to leave the balance on one side of the game lackluster.
I mean... doesn't it have different rules? In Single Player you can go buck wild, bring 4 100 ton mechs, pilots with maxed out skills in every category, game breaking min maxed custom loadouts.
I haven't dicked around in Multiplayer yet, but I'm under the impression you have certain price limits on your lance? And a limited pilot selection?
Man, I really should give Multiplayer a spin now that I think about it. Going all heavies and assaults in the single player is getting a tad boring for me. I miss the parry and thrust of a solid 4 v 4 with mediums and lights.
I mean the things like evasion or bulwark can and should function differently in singleplayer and multiplayer.
But why? To protect players from their own excesses in single player? For every player that's complaining that certain skills make the game too easy, there are probably a dozen different players thinking they've found a really cool skill that is saving their butts.
The complaint with evasion actually is that it should be better. In general when people mention evasion and bulwark, it's because they want those two styles to both be relevant. You should be able to defend yourself somewhat effectively with speed, or with raw toughness, which would immediately increase the later-game utility of both light mechs and medium mechs (since they send to rely on evasion more than their heavier counterparts)
People say bulwark is too good and they might be right but in general people just want the two options to both be viable.
But I've found evasion to be plenty good, unless I'm an idiot?
Like, I still use a Grasshopper. I usually put someone with the Evasive boost in him, and with piloting maxed out to really keep those pips up. I'll Jump Jet around and almost always have 6 evasive pips. And for a while, that made me cocky. I'd have him as my extreme forward scout, spotting for my missile boat and Highlander.
Then he got knocked down and cored out one round, and almost cored out a second around, because I was being too aggressive with him, leaving him way too far forward, with the entire enemy forces having LOS to him, and being their only target.
6 evasive pips is amazing, but it's not, nor should it be, that amazing. I shouldn't be able to dance someone around an entire enemy lance going "Nana nana nanaaaaa, you can't touch me!" Much less 2 enemy lances I've failed to approach and take one at a time.
So are we complaining about evasion, or is evasion the proxy by which we complain that lights and mediums aren't useful in the single player end game?
That a 70 ton mech can be as evasive as a 25 ton mech is a huge problem in my eyes.
I honestly don't think evasion needs fixing. You max it out, with perks and everything, you get what, 6 pips? In a 4 v 4 multiplayer match where the other player has other crap to worry about, I'd consider that guy as protected as I'd want him to be.
The problem is that in an 8 or 12 v 4 single player session, where you've foolishly pushed that guy out in front, and allowed all the forces on the map to mass against you, no amount of evasion pips will save him. At that point you've gotta hope your armor holds and you can focus fire and core them as they come.
Like pretty much every videogame ever this game should have different rules for single player and multiplayer.
One set of rules is always going to leave the balance on one side of the game lackluster.
I mean... doesn't it have different rules? In Single Player you can go buck wild, bring 4 100 ton mechs, pilots with maxed out skills in every category, game breaking min maxed custom loadouts.
I haven't dicked around in Multiplayer yet, but I'm under the impression you have certain price limits on your lance? And a limited pilot selection?
Man, I really should give Multiplayer a spin now that I think about it. Going all heavies and assaults in the single player is getting a tad boring for me. I miss the parry and thrust of a solid 4 v 4 with mediums and lights.
I mean the things like evasion or bulwark can and should function differently in singleplayer and multiplayer.
But why? To protect players from their own excesses in single player? For every player that's complaining that certain skills make the game too easy, there are probably a dozen different players thinking they've found a really cool skill that is saving their butts.
The complaint with evasion actually is that it should be better. In general when people mention evasion and bulwark, it's because they want those two styles to both be relevant. You should be able to defend yourself somewhat effectively with speed, or with raw toughness, which would immediately increase the later-game utility of both light mechs and medium mechs (since they send to rely on evasion more than their heavier counterparts)
People say bulwark is too good and they might be right but in general people just want the two options to both be viable.
But I've found evasion to be plenty good, unless I'm an idiot?
Like, I still use a Grasshopper. I usually put someone with the Evasive boost in him, and with piloting maxed out to really keep those pips up. I'll Jump Jet around and almost always have 6 evasive pips. And for a while, that made me cocky. I'd have him as my extreme forward scout, spotting for my missile boat and Highlander.
Then he got knocked down and cored out one round, and almost cored out a second around, because I was being too aggressive with him, leaving him way too far forward, with the entire enemy forces having LOS to him, and being their only target.
6 evasive pips is amazing, but it's not, nor should it be, that amazing. I shouldn't be able to dance someone around an entire enemy lance going "Nana nana nanaaaaa, you can't touch me!" Much less 2 enemy lances I've failed to approach and take one at a time.
So are we complaining about evasion, or is evasion the proxy by which we complain that lights and mediums aren't useful in the single player end game?
That a 70 ton mech can be as evasive as a 25 ton mech is a huge problem in my eyes.
Well I mean, with the right pilot and spamming jump jets every round, driving up my heat. A light or medium could pull that off without the heat problems the Grasshopper has.
And so we are arguing over the usefulness of mediums and lights after all.
Is there any way to add armor in +1 increments? It's really annoying when you're trying to up-armor a section and end up 0.01 tons under the limit and get warnings? (in this case, armoring the AC/20 arm of my Dragon - though for whatever reason the Dragon seems to under-perform compared to the hunchback).
Dragon and Hunchback have the same starting level of armor, but Hunchbacks, being a medium 'mech, benefit from a innate +1 difficutly for anything that shoots at them, so they're technically better at trading blows with other 'mechs bulwark style (I also think the AI, all other things being equal, chooses the target they are most likely to hit, regardless of threat, so the Dragon's probably getting targeted in scenarios where the Hunchback would get overlooked for another target.) For the Dragon to be more survivable, you have to make it more of an ambusher. Put a Evasive Manuevers/Tactical Awareness or an Ace Pilot/Multishot mechwarrior in the cockpit with a couple of jump jets and watch it work wonders as an ambusher.
Dragon is pretty bad mech because it is a low-end heavy instead of a high-end medium (needs heavier jump jets, engine weights more, has worse initiative). A custom Shadow Hawk is better in every way.
+2
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Dragon is pretty bad mech because it is a low-end heavy instead of a high-end medium (needs heavier jump jets, engine weights more, has worse initiative). A custom Shadow Hawk is better in every way.
They're both worse than Hunchbacks, Wolverines, Griffins, Trebuchets, or Kintaros in my experience.
Dragon is pretty bad mech because it is a low-end heavy instead of a high-end medium (needs heavier jump jets, engine weights more, has worse initiative). A custom Shadow Hawk is better in every way.
I had the same problem with a Zeus. At 80 tons, those extra 5 tons really aren't making it that much better over a 75 ton Black Knight. Except the Black Knight will be harder to hit due to smaller size, act sooner in the initiative track, and I have mine decked out with just as much armor as the Zeus.
Not sure how I could have decked out my Zeus to fix those problems. But I'm frequently finding 60 ton heavies or 80 ton assaults not worth the trade off of size/initiative. They just seem like strictly inferior versions of something from the upper band of the lighter weight class.
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Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
All y'all in the midgame seen those SRM carriers around? They're scary.
Yeah, the Kintaro is one of those except it can also mount jump jets. Go nuts.
Posts
I read earlier someone saying PPCs are garbage. They're totally not, at least for me. You can't just spam them on a mech, and need to leave it disabled until you're ready to take the heat, but if you've got someone that's a great shot they can really dish out damage.
PPCs can be fun to use early on when they blow up locations and you can mitigate the heat they generate by the engine's 10 inbuilt heatsinks, but later on when you can fit more weapons on a mech and PPC no longer destroys locations in one hit they just aren't good. I hope they do a weapon balance patch soon, right now LLs and PPCs generate way too much heat.
This guy is 100% right on weapon balance. MLs, missiles, AC5 and 20 and support weapons are good, the rest aren't.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Or more like any mech with really limited hardpoints is a mech that gets put into storage and sold. :P
In practice I'd go with AC5s and MLs in such situation though. PPCs just generate too much heat so you can't fire them constantly and given you tend to be against 2:1 odds in any mission that matters you need to be able to keep on firing every turn. I guess if you stand in a polar biome lake then it's not too bad, but a lot of the missions are in desert/martian/lunar landscapes.
Me, I’ve not even gotten past the second story mission. I’m happy to try minmaxing my campaign mechs next year some time.
When you have a stable full of every mech in the game and you just bring ML/SRM Battlemasters and such to every fight, that's fine. But as the game seems to tailor the tonnage you face depending on what you bring, bringing all the assaults just leads to really boring slugfests that have no finesse or strategy to them. Plus, if you're in the early to midgame, your options for this sort of build are Centurions, Trebuchets and Shadowhawks with MLs/SRMs, and your heavier mechs are going to have to mount at least one big weapon or they just won't make tonnage, like the Thunderbolt, Catapult or Orion.
Also, you'll get absolutely roflstomped if you tried taking that into skirmish mode vs people. Sure, everyone is going to run 1-2 ML/SRM boats because they DO output so much damage, but you'll get horribly outranged/outmaneuvered if that's all you bring.
I'm honestly enjoying more mid-range engagements where I force the enemy into kill-corridors or make them advance over open ground to pepper them with AC5/PPC/LRM fire and that's really effective.
tl;dr while MLs and SRM4s and LRM15/20 are the most efficient weapons per tonnage, using just those gets REAL BORING and the extra range on PPC/AC5 is actually good. Also AC10 have a place as headhunter weapons, but sure AC20 are better.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
People overrate range in this game. Fog of war, small map sizes, terrain, and the mobility of mechs have made it so brawling is going to crap on anything and everything (except lrm spam, which is ridiculously strong).
I experimented with a ton of stuff early on, and then I suddenly noticed that I was using mgs, sls, mls, srms, and (only on much heavier mechs) ac20s on everything.
If you are using precision strike or called shot, missiles hit the chosen location just as well (except LRMs to head, that's a bit of a special case). If you are just randomly firing at an enemy mech, then big weapons have the advantage of giving you a possibility of punching through the armor in one random location. I had a Demolisher tank hit two AC20s on my standing heavy mech's CT - had to remove it from the frontline even though it had pristine armor everywhere else. That's the sort of thing you don't get with missiles.
SRMs and MGs have one added benefit over other weapons - they roll for the chance to hit enemy head for every hit, giving a high chance of headshots. LRMs just check once with the first missile of every salvo, if that hits then the other missiles from that weapon can hit the head as well but it means if you fire 3-4 LRM launchers on enemy chances of getting a random headshot aren't very high.
It kind of reminds me of the mimic beacon in xcom2 where you know you’re crutching on something stupid and broken, but you have no idea how you’d complete some of the ridiculous timed missions that rng craps on you in the latter portions of the game without it.
@shalmelo I downgraded the thing's PPC to a LL+ and used the new spare tonnage to get an extra heat sink and more armor and it's been a key part of my lance ever since.
edit: when I got some double heat sinks, I slapped a couple in there as well. Now it can alpha two or three times before needing to slow down. It's a coring machine.
Having at least one person (my main character) with master tactician has been absolutely gamechanging for basically any mech (with any spec) he chooses to pilot, though, especially if it is an assault/heavy. it lets you pull all kinds of black magic shit off, and has a nice stability buff on top of it. The tactics line itself is also just very good on its own. Most of all, unlike Breaching Shot it doesn't rely on me needing a solution to a specific problem, which relies on an enemy to in a certain stance - it's always of stellar benefit. The only bad thing about it is that I had to take sensor lock to get to it. I'm not a minmaxer by any means, I just wanted my main guy to be the tactician/heavy hitter.
Not that breaching shot or multishot are bad, they're both quite good, I just think master tactician is incredible. I'm sure many have figured that out and do use, but like I said, not a number cruncher or minmaxer or anything. I might take multishot as my last skill, because I use a crazy AC20 and medium lasers and I think that would let me get even more creative, even. Bulwark is looking mighty fine, though...
Conversely, I think people underrate range and terrain advantage in this game. There have been precious few maps where I've not been able to perch PPC mechs on a ridge and force the enemy to approach along a ramp, exposing them to turn after turn of withering big chunks of damage. That said, I'm pretty sure I could also manipulate the battlefield to force them to turn a corner straight into a mech bristling with medium lasers and SRMs to much the same effect, but I favour mediums and heavies over assaults as a rule, and AC5s/PPCs with LRMs just make more sense on mechs that don't have 6+ energy hardpoints etc.
Different people playing the game in different ways, etc. I -do- agree that Precision Shot, high Morale and Morale boosting equipment is ridiculous, however. I built up my morale early with lavish wages and I don't regret it at all. Heading into a battle at 50 morale is pretty much gamebreaking, even without bugged pilots with endless High Spirits. (I hope that gets patched, I never bring Medusa since he got hit with that bug and it is gamebreaking).
Bulwark is ridiculous. Breaching Shot is good on some builds. Multishot is almost always useful. Piloting Ace is great on mobile strikes (fast mechs with lots of weapons that want to get in on a reserved turn, then alpha strike twice before running off with zero retaliation - reserving is good). Sensor Lock is sometimes useful, less so later in the game when pilots have natively higher gunnery. Master Tactician is so good, Juggernaut makes me sad.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
At mission, dealing with the reinforcements (some heavy vehicles + a Jagger) when the target fired some LRMs from offscreen. Hmm, I think, what mech might that be? Didn't count the missiles, but it seemed more than just 15. Mouse over the sensor blip, and it says:
MECH, 100TON.
"YEEEEEEESSSS!!!"
and that's how Behemoth got her Atlas.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Right now I'm just moving into the Assault mech part of the game. So I have the free Highlander, and two battlemasters. I also field a trebuchet.
This game really starts to shine after you move out of the early game. Money becomes more reliable, you get better at tinkering with your mech builds, and you know the game a little bit better and the tricks you can take to swing fights in your direction.
Multishot is great because it allows you to not "waste" a turn entirely on a mech that's going to either blow up or get knocked over by a stiff breeze, aiming only a couple of mlas or an LRM rack on them while focusing the rest on your next target. It's also great for dealing with the defensive thing that the AI does all the time; Evasion stacks. Strip them off one 'mech while focusing on another so that a heavier mech can alpha strike them out of existence when their turn comes up.
Breaching Shot is actually quite awesome not only for the occasional Bulwarked 'mech, but also for your scout. The AI, when it has detected you but can't actually see you or can move into range, does a move-brace until it can shoot at you. A fast 'mech with an AC/20 can close the final distance and fire that lovely weapon point-blank and kneecap the asshole. It's also better than Juggernaut, which is the other ability you can choose once you've gone Gunnery/Guts for your skills.
Yeah again I agree with you on Multishot, my only angle is it's more situational than a skill I'd rather have, like Master Tactician/Bulwark or even MT/Multishot.
MY LRM mech has multishot/breaching and so I can handle the situation you describe with them very well. But yeah, if I already have Bulwark anyway, I'm definitely taking Breaching over Juggernaut because like I think everybody knows it's pretty bad for a level 8 skill. I took Juggernaut on my punchmech whose only lot in life is to punch/flamethrower things, which does very well, and Juggernaut is definitely helpful but as an 8 even it isn't the best for the thing it's made for. I mainly wanted to throw some praise on for Master Tactician, since I had seen a lot more talking about Breaching Shot.
also, still discovering things, didn't know that weapons mounted on your actual arm rather than, say, your forehead, are more accurate. This seems like it'd be a foregone conclusion but I had no idea. I've only ever seen a head hardpoint for single laser slot, I think, but the idea of having a ballistic slot on your forehead that had room for an AC is hilarious. snapping your own neck with your own shots.
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Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
Evasion pips not degrading would have to be tied to a high end skill to not destroy the balance of the early game.
They could also make it so you can generate more evasion stacks, like a higher max number. It’s easy for mediums to hit max evasion, and at that point why even consider lights?
I agree with his energy and missile assessment but I think his ballistic arguments are very handwave-y. The range bands are an excellent reason to bring different ACs depending on what else that 'Mech is mounting, and the Gauss Rifle has huge stability damage, an enormous optimal range band, negligible heat, and no recoil (he also admits he only used it once so he probably didn't assess it too stringently). Also you can't really just go "for only 2 tons more!" when weight tolerances of 1-3 tons can absolutely make or break a build. Downgrading an AC/20 to an AC/10 to fit 2 more MLs on is 100% a good decision.
The problem is that in an 8 or 12 v 4 single player session, where you've foolishly pushed that guy out in front, and allowed all the forces on the map to mass against you, no amount of evasion pips will save him. At that point you've gotta hope your armor holds and you can focus fire and core them as they come.
Like pretty much every videogame ever this game should have different rules for single player and multiplayer.
One set of rules is always going to leave the balance on one side of the game lackluster.
I mean... doesn't it have different rules? In Single Player you can go buck wild, bring 4 100 ton mechs, pilots with maxed out skills in every category, game breaking min maxed custom loadouts.
I haven't dicked around in Multiplayer yet, but I'm under the impression you have certain price limits on your lance? And a limited pilot selection?
Man, I really should give Multiplayer a spin now that I think about it. Going all heavies and assaults in the single player is getting a tad boring for me. I miss the parry and thrust of a solid 4 v 4 with mediums and lights.
I mean the things like evasion or bulwark can and should function differently in singleplayer and multiplayer.
But why? To protect players from their own excesses in single player? For every player that's complaining that certain skills make the game too easy, there are probably a dozen different players thinking they've found a really cool skill that is saving their butts.
I'm actually content to have the skills and weapons be balanced around multi-player, and let the single player fall where it may. At least within certain limits. If you grind and min max and train all 10's pilots, no amount of re balancing between single and multi player can stop that. Except to have the priority missions be honest to got priority missions which you must accept within a certain amount of time, or you lose.
The complaint with evasion actually is that it should be better. In general when people mention evasion and bulwark, it's because they want those two styles to both be relevant. You should be able to defend yourself somewhat effectively with speed, or with raw toughness, which would immediately increase the later-game utility of both light mechs and medium mechs (since they send to rely on evasion more than their heavier counterparts)
People say bulwark is too good and they might be right but in general people just want the two options to both be viable.
But I've found evasion to be plenty good, unless I'm an idiot?
Like, I still use a Grasshopper. I usually put someone with the Evasive boost in him, and with piloting maxed out to really keep those pips up. I'll Jump Jet around and almost always have 6 evasive pips. And for a while, that made me cocky. I'd have him as my extreme forward scout, spotting for my missile boat and Highlander.
Then he got knocked down and cored out one round, and almost cored out a second around, because I was being too aggressive with him, leaving him way too far forward, with the entire enemy forces having LOS to him, and being their only target.
6 evasive pips is amazing, but it's not, nor should it be, that amazing. I shouldn't be able to dance someone around an entire enemy lance going "Nana nana nanaaaaa, you can't touch me!" Much less 2 enemy lances I've failed to approach and take one at a time.
So are we complaining about evasion, or is evasion the proxy by which we complain that lights and mediums aren't useful in the single player end game?
That a 70 ton mech can be as evasive as a 25 ton mech is a huge problem in my eyes.
Well I mean, with the right pilot and spamming jump jets every round, driving up my heat. A light or medium could pull that off without the heat problems the Grasshopper has.
And so we are arguing over the usefulness of mediums and lights after all.
Dragon and Hunchback have the same starting level of armor, but Hunchbacks, being a medium 'mech, benefit from a innate +1 difficutly for anything that shoots at them, so they're technically better at trading blows with other 'mechs bulwark style (I also think the AI, all other things being equal, chooses the target they are most likely to hit, regardless of threat, so the Dragon's probably getting targeted in scenarios where the Hunchback would get overlooked for another target.) For the Dragon to be more survivable, you have to make it more of an ambusher. Put a Evasive Manuevers/Tactical Awareness or an Ace Pilot/Multishot mechwarrior in the cockpit with a couple of jump jets and watch it work wonders as an ambusher.
They're both worse than Hunchbacks, Wolverines, Griffins, Trebuchets, or Kintaros in my experience.
I had the same problem with a Zeus. At 80 tons, those extra 5 tons really aren't making it that much better over a 75 ton Black Knight. Except the Black Knight will be harder to hit due to smaller size, act sooner in the initiative track, and I have mine decked out with just as much armor as the Zeus.
Not sure how I could have decked out my Zeus to fix those problems. But I'm frequently finding 60 ton heavies or 80 ton assaults not worth the trade off of size/initiative. They just seem like strictly inferior versions of something from the upper band of the lighter weight class.
Yeah, the Kintaro is one of those except it can also mount jump jets. Go nuts.