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Personal Loans?

BucketmanBucketman Call meSkraggRegistered User regular
edited July 2018 in Help / Advice Forum
So I have no idea how to go about this, but I need to take out a smallish personal loan to pay off some debt to my employer in order to take a new job. Its a complicated situation, but basically my current employer gave me a tuition reimbursement and before I leave the company I need to repay it. But they want it all at once and within 30 days of me leaving...which is a big ask. I was looking at personal loans but google is taking me to some...questionable sites. I bank with Chase but they don't offer personal loans, so I'm looking at alternatives. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions.

Thanks

Bucketman on
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    WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    How big of a loan, like 1-2k, or 5 digit+? if the former could probably try for a line of credit, much better interest than an actual loan usually. ( just basically an increase in the amount you are able to overdraft your account)

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    The exact amount is a little over $5,300. I didn't even know that was an option

    Edit: It doesn't look like Chase offers that, or any kind of personal loan which is...weird for one of the biggest banks in the country

    Bucketman on
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    WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Bucketman wrote: »
    The exact amount is a little over $5,300. I didn't even know that was an option

    it usually tops out around 5k for most, but could still swing a few K via a line of credit, and if nothing else buys you breathing room on finding the rest somewhat. Have you tried talking to employer themselves about going into an official payment plan? or are they kinda doing this route just to be dickish?

    edit: do you know if your credit rating is pretty good or pretty bad? if it's in the higher end of the ratings, that opens a lot of options

    WiseManTobes on
    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Well the paperwork I filled out does say I would have to pay it back, but going through it theres no information at all about HOW the repayment would work, so I have no idea if this is standard or if their being dicks. Part of me is leaning towards dicks because I'm leaving to go work for one of the companies clients, and their making me jump through a ton of hoops for it

    Edit: My credit is technically considered bad I guess. Its around 575-590 depending on the credit company you ask. I've been digging myself out of a hole for the last few years

    Bucketman on
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    WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Well the paperwork I filled out does say I would have to pay it back, but going through it theres no information at all about HOW the repayment would work, so I have no idea if this is standard or if their being dicks. Part of me is leaning towards dicks because I'm leaving to go work for one of the companies clients, and their making me jump through a ton of hoops for it

    Edit: My credit is technically considered bad I guess. Its around 575-590 depending on the credit company you ask. I've been digging myself out of a hole for the last few years

    ( had to google a bit cause Canadian, we use much smaller numbers ) Seems like have climbed it to around middle, could still probably get some sort of line of credit/overdraft extension for at least a couple grand , it was the route I went while rebuilding back when I needed some breathing room.

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
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    ThundyrkatzThundyrkatz Registered User regular
    The repayment thing is normal. The company invested money in you to make you a better, more productive employee for them, it wasn't charity. Typically there is a time frame where you will have to stay with the company before the money no longer needs to be paid back, usually 2 years.

    For a personal loan, you could look at other banks or even better a credit union. Also, it is always worth while to ask your soon to be former employer what repayment options they have for you.

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Yeah I asked, they said there is no option, just one lump sum. No repayment plans. I don't mind paying it and I understand the reasoning, but I wish options were available

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    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    How long would it take you to reasonably pay it off? Because, there is totally a repayment plan. Its a net 30 bill basically, and you probably will get another 60-90 days before it's delinquent enough for accounting to do anything about it. Then at that point offer to pay say half then and the other half "next month".

    If you can get a reasonable loan and use that instead, that'd be best. But don't fall into a payday loan trap just because they want money from you now. Hell even if they took you to small claims or sold it off to a collection agency, both of those places would accept/offer payment plans.

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
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    ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    A plus to going the loan route is while it'll cost you more in the long run, and with that credit score it'll almost certainly cost you *significantly* more, if you maintain on-time payments that's going to really help your score.

    The benefit, such as it is, of letting it go to the point that they take you to court over it is that tinwhiskers is 100% correct in that the court would not only work out a payment plan but they are generally very good about terms.

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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    I used to bank with Chase. You're right, they don't like to do unsecured personal loans.

    Look into local credit unions, they're going to be your best bet.

    I would press as hard as you can against your former employer to draw up terms of a payment plan before taking out an unsecured personal loan.

    If you absolutely must take out a personal loan, look for an institution that's offering a promotional interest rate. A common offer is 3% interest for the first year, then 12-15% each year after that. Edit: with your credit score it'll probably be more like 18%.

    A credit union will require you to take out a savings account to get a loan, but usually you can put a small amount (like $5) in the savings account and forget about it.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Thanks guys. I'll have more information today hopefully since it seems like our HR/accounting people don't know what's going on. And your right, if I'm saving for our and trying to pay it off and they take me to court or collections it's not like I'm going to jail. I guess I've been in panic mode

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Many years ago I was in a somewhat similar situation, and I basically hardballed them into accepting payments. It worked, and I suffered no consequences for it.

    But they also had very little leverage over me, if your current employer is holding their reference, that's a different matter entirely.

    Do you own a car? How paid off is it? You could try to use it as collateral for a secured loan.

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    They already released me and gave a reference yeah, I'm trying to talk to the financing people at work about this but it's like pulling teeth to get ahold of them.

    My car is paid off and is only 7 years old so yeah I could do that

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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Have you already set up terms with the new company for your position and compensation? Any chance they'd be willing to give you a forward to help you out with this, or a 'relocation package' to help you move away from the old company and into your new position?

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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    I’m going to be honest, this is a case of risk. They may sue you for the money if you don’t pay it back, which means you’ll owe the money, maybe plus the cost of filing, but you’ll have time and courts will allow you a repayment period. They can also ding your credit, but your credit is pretty bad so that’s it.

    I was in a similar situation a while ago and I just said ok you won’t work with me on payment I won’t pay you, my credit was at 400 at that point so I waited 3 years, and they offered me a payment plan at that point.

    Remember they want the money more than you want to pay it to them. They are the ones with a problem. This doesn’t work if you are taking a cleared position.

    I generally don’t advocate not paying a debt, but you have leverage to get a better repayment deal...unless it’s amazon or some other giant.

    zepherin on
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    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    If you can't afford to pay it and they have no way to stop you getting the new job I think you should try to work out a payment plan you can handle with them and if they won't do that just don't pay them until you can. Don't take out unsecured debt with interest to pay unsecured debt without interest.

    sig.gif
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    CauldCauld Registered User regular
    I obviously don't know your situation. But at my work I'm almost 99% sure they would work out a payment plan. I think they might even forgive it in time, though I'm less confident in that. I would push for a payment plan. Depending on your read of the situation, I might even just present it to them by saying "I don't have 5k right now, but I'll give you 500/month for the next 10 months. Sorry for the trouble and thanks again for everything"

    One more thing to consider: They may withhold your entire final paycheck.

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Yeah the finance department finally got a hold of me. It's silly you can't contact them directly, HR has to forward someone to you.

    Anyway it might not wind up being a problem, I spoke to the guy and he's going to contact his boss about maybe setting up a payment plan. Turns out they've have actually never had this happen before. A major company with six locations and hundreds of employees and I'm the first to leave while owing this much. So HR. Not knowing what to say just gave me a load of crap. Here's hoping their willing to work with me

    Bucketman on
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Yeah the finance department finally got a hold of me. It's silly you can't contact them directly, HR has to forward someone to you.

    Anyway it might not wind up being a problem, I spoke to the guy and he's going to contact his boss about maybe setting up a payment plan. Turns out they've have actually had this happen before. A major company with six locations and hundreds of employees and I'm the first to leave while owing this much. So HR. Not knowing what to say just gave me a load of crap. Here's hoping their willing to work with me
    Of course their finance team is willing to work with you. You not paying them hurts them not you.

    Don't offer a too aggressive repayment either. Maybe start with 2 hundo a month with the option of paying extra. Try not to let them bully you into like 800-1000 a month. Repayment terms are a negotiation, and if you are making more money 200 a month should be doable.

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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    Do go through the negotiation with them because that's the best route. You may want to check sites like SoFi or possibly Lending Tree, just to see what kind of rates they'd be willing to offer you. At least that way, you have a sense of what you'd be looking at if you had to go the lump sum loan route.

    I'm guessing they have finance insulated behind HR so that people don't go directly to finance for any issues that may crop up regarding paycheck errors or similar.

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    mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    Worst case, if you have to take a minimum loan out , you don't have to actually spend the extra, you just put it back into repayment

    camo_sig.png
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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Worth saying that with a score below 650ish, you are likely not getting an unsecured personal loan from anyone except the shady internet payday loan people like Opploan. You can't even get an unsecured credit card at that credit rating.

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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    spool32 wrote: »
    Worth saying that with a score below 650ish, you are likely not getting an unsecured personal loan from anyone except the shady internet payday loan people like Opploan. You can't even get an unsecured credit card at that credit rating.
    There is a certain freedom to having a low credit rating. "The homeless already have a better credit rating than me so I have to put 3 months down to get an apartment anyways, so just pile it up while I wait you out." The difference between 500 and 570 is pretty negligible. You aren't getting credit cards, unsecured loans, or reasonable rates on cars or apartments.

    zepherin on
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Credit is weird and fixing it when it’s low is silly hard

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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    You're not wrong, but two easy steps are:
    1) Keep your % utilization low (ie get a card and use it minimally)
    2) Look into a "fresh start" type of program at CUs; where you put in, say, $500 for a CD and they issue you a secured card with a $500 limit that eventually turns into an unsecured card

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Ok so finally heard back from the Fiance Department, they don't do payment plans and except me to pay it all off by the end of August (between the two loans its actually less then I though, $4125.00) and are withholding my entire last paycheck to put towards it because in the past they have had several people just take off and not pay it.

    I told them I'm willing to pay, but taking my entire last check leaving me unable to pay my bills and then turning around and asking for $3000 more is a big ask. We'll see what they say.

    Bucketman on
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    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    isn't that illegal

    sig.gif
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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    isn't that illegal

    In many states, yes!

    Though if you agreed that that outcome specifically as part of agreeing to accepting the tuition it is much more likely to be legal.

    Aioua on
    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Yeah the paperwork I signed said nothing about this. I pulled up the contract, I removed the company names and stuff but otherwise this is copy and paste, it has no statement about wage garnishment:
    D. Reimbursement Payment

    1. The employee must file an expense report requesting reimbursement of tuition within sixty (60) days of the completion date of each course.

    2. The reimbursement request must include an itemized receipt for tuition payments and evidence of the grade achieved in each course. If an itemized receipt is not included, the reimbursement will be denied.


    3. Tuition reimbursement requests must be approved by the manager, then by HR Manager NAME.

    4. Reimbursement will be made to the employee on the paycheck following approval of the expense report.

    5. The employee must remain employed by COMPANY upon completion of reimbursed coursework. If an employee leaves on his/her own or is released by COMPANY , tuition reimbursement payments must be returned to COMPANY based on the following scale:

     100% if the employee leaves less than one year after course completion.  50% if the employee leaves more than one year, but less than two years after course completion.  No repayment is required after 2 years.

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Update: I looked into it, and the Computer Loan that I owe $800 on says they can garnish it out of my wages, but the big 3k one is what i posted above and I never signed any contracts or anything so hopefully they decide to work with me

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    DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    You said in the job thread that your new company is a customer of your current employer? Have you talked to them about this? First step would be confirming their threat to garnish your wages without getting the courts involved. It's possible they're just making that shit up.

    edit: also definitely call your state dept of labor, today, and confirm they can't withhold your paycheck to pay this.

    edit: also also, are you speaking directly to finance? Because they may have no clue what labor laws even are. Do this by email, copy someone higher up in HR (like, director level or higher), and BCC your personal account.

    DivideByZero on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    This is beginning to venture into "get a lawyer" range.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    "Garnish" has particular rules to it than "I'm just going to seize your entire paycheck."

    In most locations (I think this is actually a federal mandate but I can't confirm, but states can further reduce the max to less than 25% if they want) the most they can garnish from paychecks is 25%. And in order to do so it either requires your permission or that of the court.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    I might visit the state department of labor office during lunch and have a chat, or set up an appointment if you can't have a chat.

    Real talk: when dealing with state and federal agencies, you get a much better result if you physically show up, and are dressed professionally. Calling or filling out an online form gets you sent to the bottom of the queue, and it'll be months before they even make a phone call, where if you talk to them in person you have a much greater chance of someone there calling your employer telling them what they are about to do is against the law and fines and penalties associated with their actions.

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    evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    bowen wrote: »
    "Garnish" has particular rules to it than "I'm just going to seize your entire paycheck."

    In most locations (I think this is actually a federal mandate but I can't confirm, but states can further reduce the max to less than 25% if they want) the most they can garnish from paychecks is 25%. And in order to do so it either requires your permission or that of the court.

    https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs30.htm
    Yeah, this looks federal to me. (There's also a calculation based on the minimum wage and 30 hours/week.)

    The real question is if this is a garnishment or not. Those usually include a legal judgement or debt to a federal agency. I suspect that withholding the last paycheck is not a garnishment, but something else.

    EDIT: There are some specific rules about taking money from the final paycheck, but these appear to vary by state. On the plus side, most of those rules are "No".

    evilmrhenry on
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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    I'm assuming @Bucketman meant garnish in the colloquial and not legal sense

    what state are you in? I like digging through state laws trying to find the gems

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Aioua wrote: »
    I'm assuming @Bucketman meant garnish in the colloquial and not legal sense

    what state are you in? I like digging through state laws trying to find the gems

    I'm in Indiana, which typically has awful right to work laws

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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    I'm assuming Bucketman meant garnish in the colloquial and not legal sense

    what state are you in? I like digging through state laws trying to find the gems

    I'm in Indiana, which typically has awful right to work laws

    laws!
    IC 22-2-6-2 Assignment of wages; requisites
    Sec. 2. (a) Any assignment of the wages of an employee is valid only if all of the following conditions are satisfied:

    (1) The assignment is:

    (A) in writing;

    (B) signed by the employee personally;

    (C) by its terms revocable at any time by the employee upon written notice to the employer; and

    (D) agreed to in writing by the employer.

    (2) An executed copy of the assignment is delivered to the employer within ten (10) days after its execution.

    (3) The assignment is made for a purpose described in subsection (b).

    (b) A wage assignment under this section may be made for the purpose of paying any of the following:

    (1) Premium on a policy of insurance obtained for the employee by the employer.

    (2) Pledge or contribution of the employee to a charitable or nonprofit organization.

    (3) Purchase price of bonds or securities, issued or guaranteed by the United States.

    (4) Purchase price of shares of stock, or fractional interests in shares of stock, of the employing company, or of a company owning the majority of the issued and outstanding stock of the employing company, whether purchased from such company, in the open market or otherwise. However, if such shares are to be purchased on installments pursuant to a written purchase agreement, the employee has the right under the purchase agreement at any time before completing purchase of such shares to cancel said agreement and to have repaid promptly the amount of all installment payments which theretofore have been made.

    (5) Dues to become owing by the employee to a labor organization of which the employee is a member.

    (6) Purchase price of merchandise, goods, or food offered by the employer and sold to the employee, for the employee's benefit, use, or consumption, at the written request of the employee.

    (7) Amount of a loan made to the employee by the employer and evidenced by a written instrument executed by the employee subject to the amount limits set forth in section 4(c) of this chapter.

    (8) Contributions, assessments, or dues of the employee to a hospital service or a surgical or medical expense plan or to an employees' association, trust, or plan existing for the purpose of paying pensions or other benefits to said employee or to others designated by the employee.

    (9) Payment to any credit union, nonprofit organizations, or associations of employees of such employer organized under any law of this state or of the United States.

    (10) Payment to any person or organization regulated under the Uniform Consumer Credit Code (IC 24-4.5) for deposit or credit to the employee's account by electronic transfer or as otherwise designated by the employee.

    (11) Premiums on policies of insurance and annuities purchased by the employee on the employee's life.

    (12) The purchase price of shares or fractional interest in shares in one (1) or more mutual funds.

    (13) A judgment owed by the employee if the payment:

    (A) is made in accordance with an agreement between the employee and the creditor; and

    (B) is not a garnishment under IC 34-25-3.

    (14) The purchase of uniforms and equipment necessary to fulfill the duties of employment. The total amount of wages assigned may not exceed the lesser of:

    (A) two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) per year; or

    (B) five percent (5%) of the employee's weekly disposable earnings (as defined in IC 24-4.5-5-105(1)(a)).

    (15) Reimbursement for education or employee skills training. However, a wage assignment may not be made if the education or employee skills training benefits were provided, in whole or in part, through an economic development incentive from any federal, state, or local program.

    (16) An advance for:

    (A) payroll; or

    (B) vacation;

    pay.

    (17) The employee's drug education and addiction treatment services under IC 12-23-23.

    (c) The interest rate charged on amounts loaned or advanced to an employee and repaid under subsection (b) may not exceed the bank prime loan interest rate as reported by the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System or any successor rate, plus four percent (4%).

    notably:
    (a) Any assignment of the wages of an employee is valid only if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
    -(1) The assignment is:
    --(A) in writing;
    --(B) signed by the employee personally;
    --(C) by its terms revocable at any time by the employee upon written notice to the employer; and
    --(D) agreed to in writing by the employer.
    -(2) An executed copy of the assignment is delivered to the employer within ten (10) days after its execution.
    -(3) The assignment is made for a purpose described in subsection (b).
    (b) A wage assignment under this section may be made for the purpose of paying any of the following:
    [snip]
    -(15) Reimbursement for education or employee skills training. However, a wage assignment may not be made if the education or employee skills training benefits were provided, in whole or in part, through an economic development incentive from any federal, state, or local program.

    so, it sounds like they're missing all of a.1 and a.2.

    You don't, sadly, have a nice concise 'employers may only make wage deductions for X reasons' and they could conceivably argue "oh no this isn't an assignment, we're just deducting money owed to us that section doesn't apply". I'm sure this is probably settled case law but I don't have the resources to look that up :(

    You can certainly say 'hey this is an invalid assignment of wages under IC 22-2-2-6, you can't do that' and see if they give

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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