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The Traitor and Monster [Baru Cormorant] OPEN SPOILERS, read the books first!

2

Posts

  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    Correct.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    Correct.

    So it's not enough that the characters go back and forth on the names but the narration does too which just confuses the shit out of me of who is who.

    Is Tau Indi actually a hermaphrodite? I thought it was just a cultural thing like gender neutral?

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    Correct.

    So it's not enough that the characters go back and forth on the names but the narration does too which just confuses the shit out of me of who is who.

    Is Tau Indi actually a hermaphrodite? I thought it was just a cultural thing like gender neutral?

    It's not gender neutral. Tau-indi didn't have a defined sex, but the lamen(sp?) are a third separate gender. There is another character at least whose gender doesn't match their biological sex.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    According to the audio book Xate is pronounced Ex-ate

    I too was surprised when I saw the spelling

  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    Correct.

    So it's not enough that the characters go back and forth on the names but the narration does too which just confuses the shit out of me of who is who.

    Is Tau Indi actually a hermaphrodite? I thought it was just a cultural thing like gender neutral?

    It's not gender neutral. Tau-indi didn't have a defined sex, but the lamen(sp?) are a third separate gender. There is another character at least whose gender doesn't match their biological sex.

    A third gender, okay cool. I thought it was a hermaphrodite thing or a man identifying as a woman thing.

    I like these books but I'll need a reread sooner rather than later because I kept mixing up the characters and thinking there were multiple characters when it was multiple names for one person.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    The only characters with multiple names (that I recall) are

    Itinerant: Farrier
    Hesychast: Cosgrad Torrinde
    Apparitor: Stir (I'm not even going to try the full name
    Durance: Xate Yawa
    Agonist: Baru.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    Apparitor is named Svir!

    also there's a Stargazer, isn't there? Which one is that?

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Apparitor is named Svir!

    also there's a Stargazer, isn't there? Which one is that?

    Its unclear. IIRC, in the first book there is a letter to Baru welcoming her to join the throne signed by Hesychast, Renascent, Itenerant, Apparitor, and Stargazer.

    Stargazer is also mentioned twice in Monster, but w/o anyone being tied to it. Xate Yawa is definitely "Durance". Its possible that the author changed code names and forgot to fix it, or that there is a fourth operative on Baru's level of the scheme...

    It could be Tain Shir?

    Edit: phone autocorrected Svir to stir, but my comment was more that I didn't have the energy to look up his full name, which is Svirakir.

    Brody on
    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    wait, there was another cryptarch was was above even Hesychast and Itenerant - that was Renascent?

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Correct.

    Renascent.
    Hesychast + Itenerant
    Agonist + Apparitor + Durance + Stargazer (?)

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    Correct.

    So it's not enough that the characters go back and forth on the names but the narration does too which just confuses the shit out of me of who is who.

    Is Tau Indi actually a hermaphrodite? I thought it was just a cultural thing like gender neutral?

    It's not gender neutral. Tau-indi didn't have a defined sex, but the lamen(sp?) are a third separate gender. There is another character at least whose gender doesn't match their biological sex.

    A third gender, okay cool. I thought it was a hermaphrodite thing or a man identifying as a woman thing.

    I like these books but I'll need a reread sooner rather than later because I kept mixing up the characters and thinking there were multiple characters when it was multiple names for one person.

    I am going to be honest, the use of the singular they confused the heck out of me for a while because the book introduced the concept of the cancrioth at the same time, so for a while I assumed Tau was a gestalt consciousness.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    Correct.

    So it's not enough that the characters go back and forth on the names but the narration does too which just confuses the shit out of me of who is who.

    Is Tau Indi actually a hermaphrodite? I thought it was just a cultural thing like gender neutral?

    It's not gender neutral. Tau-indi didn't have a defined sex, but the lamen(sp?) are a third separate gender. There is another character at least whose gender doesn't match their biological sex.

    A third gender, okay cool. I thought it was a hermaphrodite thing or a man identifying as a woman thing.

    I like these books but I'll need a reread sooner rather than later because I kept mixing up the characters and thinking there were multiple characters when it was multiple names for one person.

    I am going to be honest, the use of the singular they confused the heck out of me for a while because the book introduced the concept of the cancrioth at the same time, so for a while I assumed Tau was a gestalt consciousness.

    Yeah, there were a couple of parts where it was talking about Kinda/Abdu and then he would write "they walked..." or w/e, and it always took me a second to figure out if it was singular Tau-indi or Kinda/Abdu as a pair.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    Correct.

    So it's not enough that the characters go back and forth on the names but the narration does too which just confuses the shit out of me of who is who.

    Is Tau Indi actually a hermaphrodite? I thought it was just a cultural thing like gender neutral?

    It's not gender neutral. Tau-indi didn't have a defined sex, but the lamen(sp?) are a third separate gender. There is another character at least whose gender doesn't match their biological sex.

    A third gender, okay cool. I thought it was a hermaphrodite thing or a man identifying as a woman thing.

    I like these books but I'll need a reread sooner rather than later because I kept mixing up the characters and thinking there were multiple characters when it was multiple names for one person.

    I am going to be honest, the use of the singular they confused the heck out of me for a while because the book introduced the concept of the cancrioth at the same time, so for a while I assumed Tau was a gestalt consciousness.

    Yeah, there were a couple of parts where it was talking about Kinda/Abdu and then he would write "they walked..." or w/e, and it always took me a second to figure out if it was singular Tau-indi or Kinda/Abdu as a pair.

    That and it kept sounding to me like Tau-indi really wanted to bang Kindala.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    The more I think about it, the more these books could have used a glossary.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    Correct.

    So it's not enough that the characters go back and forth on the names but the narration does too which just confuses the shit out of me of who is who.

    Is Tau Indi actually a hermaphrodite? I thought it was just a cultural thing like gender neutral?

    It's not gender neutral. Tau-indi didn't have a defined sex, but the lamen(sp?) are a third separate gender. There is another character at least whose gender doesn't match their biological sex.

    A third gender, okay cool. I thought it was a hermaphrodite thing or a man identifying as a woman thing.

    I like these books but I'll need a reread sooner rather than later because I kept mixing up the characters and thinking there were multiple characters when it was multiple names for one person.

    I am going to be honest, the use of the singular they confused the heck out of me for a while because the book introduced the concept of the cancrioth at the same time, so for a while I assumed Tau was a gestalt consciousness.

    Yeah, there were a couple of parts where it was talking about Kinda/Abdu and then he would write "they walked..." or w/e, and it always took me a second to figure out if it was singular Tau-indi or Kinda/Abdu as a pair.

    Yeah. The weird thing is I read Beckett’s Jyhad Diary shortly after which also used the singular they for a nonbinary character and didn’t have any problems understanding. I think it may be an issue with the author needing to work a bit more on avoiding ambiguity.

  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    Xate Yawa is definitely "Durance". Its possible that the author changed code names and forgot to fix it, or that there is a fourth operative on Baru's level of the scheme...

    Xate was inducted around the same time as Baru. That's why she's not in the letter. I get the impression that, like Renascent, Stargazer is another character who Dickinson has kept kind of in his back pocket--we'll hear more about them in the next couple books.

  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    "Duty is what you do even when you have no reason to do it."

    Fuck.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    Tau Indie was a delight, and I hope they get a good ending. Although that might be a while because this apparently is going to be a 4 book series!

    I could continue reading about Baru for years tbh

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    Correct.

    So it's not enough that the characters go back and forth on the names but the narration does too which just confuses the shit out of me of who is who.

    Is Tau Indi actually a hermaphrodite? I thought it was just a cultural thing like gender neutral?

    It's not gender neutral. Tau-indi didn't have a defined sex, but the lamen(sp?) are a third separate gender. There is another character at least whose gender doesn't match their biological sex.

    A third gender, okay cool. I thought it was a hermaphrodite thing or a man identifying as a woman thing.

    I like these books but I'll need a reread sooner rather than later because I kept mixing up the characters and thinking there were multiple characters when it was multiple names for one person.

    I am going to be honest, the use of the singular they confused the heck out of me for a while because the book introduced the concept of the cancrioth at the same time, so for a while I assumed Tau was a gestalt consciousness.

    Yeah, there were a couple of parts where it was talking about Kinda/Abdu and then he would write "they walked..." or w/e, and it always took me a second to figure out if it was singular Tau-indi or Kinda/Abdu as a pair.

    Yeah. The weird thing is I read Beckett’s Jyhad Diary shortly after which also used the singular they for a nonbinary character and didn’t have any problems understanding. I think it may be an issue with the author needing to work a bit more on avoiding ambiguity.

    I think the fact that it's used naturally and completely without comment is part of the point. In Tau-indi's culture, being non-binary is so widely recognized that it's codified as a third gender. This series has always made a point of being very socially progressive - everyone in the book understands it perfectly, it never requires explanation, it just is what it is.

    Zek on
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Okay hold on, Farrier is Itinerant and Cosgrove is Hesychast, right?

    Correct.

    So it's not enough that the characters go back and forth on the names but the narration does too which just confuses the shit out of me of who is who.

    Is Tau Indi actually a hermaphrodite? I thought it was just a cultural thing like gender neutral?

    It's not gender neutral. Tau-indi didn't have a defined sex, but the lamen(sp?) are a third separate gender. There is another character at least whose gender doesn't match their biological sex.

    A third gender, okay cool. I thought it was a hermaphrodite thing or a man identifying as a woman thing.

    I like these books but I'll need a reread sooner rather than later because I kept mixing up the characters and thinking there were multiple characters when it was multiple names for one person.

    I am going to be honest, the use of the singular they confused the heck out of me for a while because the book introduced the concept of the cancrioth at the same time, so for a while I assumed Tau was a gestalt consciousness.

    Yeah, there were a couple of parts where it was talking about Kinda/Abdu and then he would write "they walked..." or w/e, and it always took me a second to figure out if it was singular Tau-indi or Kinda/Abdu as a pair.

    Yeah. The weird thing is I read Beckett’s Jyhad Diary shortly after which also used the singular they for a nonbinary character and didn’t have any problems understanding. I think it may be an issue with the author needing to work a bit more on avoiding ambiguity.

    I think the fact that it's used naturally and completely without comment is part of the point. In Tau-indi's culture, being non-binary is so widely recognized that it's codified as a third gender. This series has always made a point of being very socially progressive - everyone in the book understands it perfectly, it never requires explanation, it just is what it is.

    I love that it just happens, but it's super confusing to read.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • Zombie GandhiZombie Gandhi Registered User regular
    More wonderful quotes from re-read, this time the terror that is Tain Shir.

    "Her marines hesitate and the surrendered Thronesmen look up in horror as if waiting for the world to amend itself in their favor.

    Shir puts a knife to their leader’s skull. A chamberlain or director. He stinks of piss but his face is brave. He says, you won’t hurt us. I am the personal chamberlain of Agonist, agent of the Throne. Touch me and you know what will be done to your family. Shir looks down at him and considers the membranes that men grow to insulate themselves from the brilliant truth.

    She punches the pommel of the knife and it goes into the man’s temple. The spies scream and call her mad. Tain Shir throws a gas grenade among them and they topple hacking so that they are as easy to slaughter as landed fish.

    They were only distractions."

    And

    "She lifts herself onto the boardwalk and trains the crossbow on his back. One shot will kill him. The world is indifferent to the reputations of men. Beneath the veil of civilization the truth prowls on an older earth."

    Yeah I am starting to think maybe she has some psychological damage, ya'll.

  • pyromaniac221pyromaniac221 this just might be an interestin YTRegistered User regular
    Personally, the use of the singular “they” sometimes made me re-read a sentence to figure out exactly to whom it was referring, but never more than once. I really liked the character and wouldn’t have wanted the author to change how they were written to spare me a few cumulative seconds of inconvenience.

    psn tooaware, friend code SW-4760-0062-3248 it me
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    My interpretation of the Cancrioth wasn't so much cancer magic as they managed to come across a strain of cancer that provides a sort of immortality through cancer cells carrying the memories of previous hosts.

    I wholly expect them to eventually come across horrifically malformed beings.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    My interpretation of the Cancrioth wasn't so much cancer magic as they managed to come across a strain of cancer that provides a sort of immortality through cancer cells carrying the memories of previous hosts.

    I wholly expect them to eventually come across horrifically malformed beings.

    They already had the whale with a giant growth, with a human skull set in it, which had glowing eyes, and I think a fin that had been fitting with a steel edge to make a blade.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    My interpretation of the Cancrioth wasn't so much cancer magic as they managed to come across a strain of cancer that provides a sort of immortality through cancer cells carrying the memories of previous hosts.

    I wholly expect them to eventually come across horrifically malformed beings.

    Cancer cells carrying memory/consciousness is magic!

  • AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    Excerpt from the acknowledgements, spoilered for blockoftext
    Cancer can be transmitted not just clonally between individuals (as in the sad case of Tasmanian devils) but across species—tapeworm to human transmission has been observed. The famous case of Henrietta Lacks, in which a woman’s unethically harvested and quite immortal cervical cancer cells provided the necessary human tissue for polio vaccine research, is a striking example of the durability and longevity of cancer cell lines. More than twenty tons of HeLa cancer cells are now thought to exist, spread around the world in a distributed superorganism which has contaminated other cell lines. The Cancrioth’s immortata is a similar superorganism, though it has been divided into specialized “breeds” targeting specific areas of the body by the selective amplification of tumors with the desired effects. Readers repulsed by the Cancrioth’s practices would be well cautioned to consider that both Oriati Mbo and Falcrest are hardly unbiased observers, and that it is easy to demonize that which offends our own sense of hygiene.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    My interpretation of the Cancrioth wasn't so much cancer magic as they managed to come across a strain of cancer that provides a sort of immortality through cancer cells carrying the memories of previous hosts.

    I wholly expect them to eventually come across horrifically malformed beings.

    Cancer cells carrying memory/consciousness is magic!

    I mean

    So is half of Star Trek

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Also, there is a strong hint during what I think is the last flashback that Farrier + Torrinde witnessed for reals cancer magic.

    Tau-indi recalls a Cancrioth wizard coming up the hills, hands and eyes alight with blue-green uranium power.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    I chalk that up to them literally believing uranium is magic.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    That's what I thought wrt the cancer memory. But we've seen what its started to show us with that. I except its going to go all in on it.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    What the fuck are the Canaat? Cause that sure was a scene in the courtyard of the embassy.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    What the fuck are the Canaat? Cause that sure was a scene in the courtyard of the embassy.

    Canaat are a faction of Kypranananananoke, vying for control of the islands vs the current rulers. They were apparently being funded by the Oriati Mbo, which made is easy for a Cancrioth to step in, infect them with The Kettling, and set them loose on the party.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    What the fuck are the Canaat? Cause that sure was a scene in the courtyard of the embassy.

    Canaat are a faction of Kypranananananoke, vying for control of the islands vs the current rulers. They were apparently being funded by the Oriati Mbo, which made is easy for a Cancrioth to step in, infect them with The Kettling, and set them loose on the party.

    What is the kettling? I thought it was the plague but came more like a zombie apocalypse.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    What the fuck are the Canaat? Cause that sure was a scene in the courtyard of the embassy.

    Canaat are a faction of Kypranananananoke, vying for control of the islands vs the current rulers. They were apparently being funded by the Oriati Mbo, which made is easy for a Cancrioth to step in, infect them with The Kettling, and set them loose on the party.

    What is the kettling? I thought it was the plague but came more like a zombie apocalypse.

    The Kettling doesn't get super well explained, but its implied that it is a hemorrhagic plague that involves leaking blackish/green liquids (I think that part is outright stated), created by the Cancrioth (I think Baru basically asks Tau-Indi towards the end if thats true).

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • RiusRius Globex CEO Nobody ever says ItalyRegistered User regular
    Yeah I'm not reading the thread yet but I'm just ducking in to say that the thread OP caught my attention last week, I picked up the first book, just finished it last night and

    daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

    so yeah I'm on that second book now

    good thread good OP hi5

  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Finished book two and all I can say is Dickinson can fucking write. Switched to another Fantasy series, while it isn't bad, just is on a much lower level of prose.

    This series desperately still needs a glossary and who's who appendix.

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    About 60 % through The Tyrant Baru Cormorant and it's definitely the best book. It obviously corrects for some of the mistakes and weak spots of The Monster and takes everything I loved about the series and turns it to 12. It is so adaptive, smart, eeloquent, mysterious, gripping and intense.

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Absalon wrote: »
    About 60 % through The Tyrant Baru Cormorant and it's definitely the best book. It obviously corrects for some of the mistakes and weak spots of The Monster and takes everything I loved about the series and turns it to 12. It is so adaptive, smart, eeloquent, mysterious, gripping and intense.

    Ooh, is there a book three now? I loved book 1, but found book 2 a slog. Does the third one get us back to a more book 1 sort of pace/setting/feel?

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Absalon wrote: »
    About 60 % through The Tyrant Baru Cormorant and it's definitely the best book. It obviously corrects for some of the mistakes and weak spots of The Monster and takes everything I loved about the series and turns it to 12. It is so adaptive, smart, eeloquent, mysterious, gripping and intense.

    Ooh, is there a book three now? I loved book 1, but found book 2 a slog. Does the third one get us back to a more book 1 sort of pace/setting/feel?

    It doesn't stay in one place, unlike book one, but everything else is a real return to form and the originality and quality of the prose is there to an even greater degree.

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