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what is the origin of this?

mtsmts Registered User regular
edited February 7 in Help / Advice Forum
I sort of think it comes from a martial art training, but you know how in fight club where he berates recruits for project mayhem to tell them they can't do it for whatever reason for a period of time, to see who is determined/persistent and sticks around before finally accepting them. that.

where is that from?

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Posts

  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    I'm not sure there's a single source for that as it's the kind of thing that pops up in a lot of different contexts. For example, certain branches of Orthodox Judaism require a rabbi to reject a potential convert three times before they are accepted.

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  • BartholamueBartholamue Registered User regular
    Don't fraternities do that via hazing?

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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    I'm not sure there's a single source for that as it's the kind of thing that pops up in a lot of different contexts. For example, certain branches of Orthodox Judaism require a rabbi to reject a potential convert three times before they are accepted.

    I've definitely heard of it as thing that happens, although I have never actually seen it done in practice outside of Hollywood. I have seen rabbis try to talk people out of it though; it's a lot of work to do in many sects and that's usually enough to do the dissuasion on the spot (or eventually) without anyone having to be turned away outright.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Sounds a lot like the various Shaolin legends I read when a co-worker was getting into kung-fu. He had brought some of the literature in to study during down time and was happy to share it.

    I'm sure it's part of a lot of traditions where a high amount of dedication is required, or a lot of specialized information is in play. The teacher doesn't want to waste their efforts on a student who's not putting in the work. But I doubt there's any way to be sure exactly where the tradition started. Most likely, it arose individually across many different cultures, anywhere a teach had a pupil who slacked off enough to make the teacher question the point of their investment in the process, then hit on the idea that maybe making the prospective apprentice sit out in the elements for a week or two to prove they're willing to put in the work in wasn't such a bad idea after all.

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    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    It's a pretty basic psychological principle - people don't value things that come easily.

    Not sure if you're looking for a specific term or example, but it's leveraged across pretty much any human endeavor that requires teamwork and group identity.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    It's a pretty basic psychological principle - people don't value things that come easily.

    Not sure if you're looking for a specific term or example, but it's leveraged across pretty much any human endeavor that requires teamwork and group identity.

    Moreover, it's a principle generally known as "weeding". The idea is that you put up a relatively high barrier early on to remove the casually interested from the the dedicated. (For example, you may have heard of "weed-out" courses in college.) Needless to say, this is a rather controversial concept, as it's been shown to be plagued with selection and survivorship bias (that is, it selects for people like the ones who are implementing the process, instead of actual interested candidates) and tends to intersect with societal racism, sexism, and other discriminatory impulses...badly.

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