Star Trek: Amok Rhyme

The Wolfman

Do you think Picard really was having dirty, rotten, filthy, stinking thoughts about Lwaxana, or was she just endlessly trolling the poor guy?

Cambiata

I didn't start liking Lwaxana until DS9. They did an excellent job of turning her into an interesting character.

Snicketysnick

The Wolfman wrote: »

Do you think Picard really was having dirty, rotten, filthy, stinking thoughts about Lwaxana, or was she just endlessly trolling the poor guy?

yes

Chanus

Cambiata wrote: »

I didn't start liking Lwaxana until DS9. They did an excellent job of turning her into an interesting character.

her storyline in DS9 was one of the best in the series if you ask me

i am an unabashed lwaxana fanboi tho

Winky

Bogart wrote: »

I completely turned around on my opinion of Lwaxana on my last rewatch. She's usually excellent value and inspires in Picard reactions we see no one else provoke. Seeing Picard peek out of his cabin to make sure she's not lying in wait is delightful.

Lwaxana is a treasure. I hated her at first but I was in love with her by DS9. Her episode with Odo is stellar.

grumblethorn

She was played a bit shrill in TNG, but overall I enjoyed her immensely on TNG as well. The episode over the forced euthanasia planet and even the comedic episodes were great.

WotanAnubis

Cambiata wrote: »

I didn't start liking Lwaxana until DS9. They did an excellent job of turning her into an interesting character.

DS9 did an excellent job of turning everyone into a more interesting character.

Except for Q. Q was a lot better with the Enterprise crew. Although he did get decked by Sisko, which was fun.

shryke

Winky wrote: »

Bogart wrote: »

I completely turned around on my opinion of Lwaxana on my last rewatch. She's usually excellent value and inspires in Picard reactions we see no one else provoke. Seeing Picard peek out of his cabin to make sure she's not lying in wait is delightful.

Lwaxana is a treasure. I hated her at first but I was in love with her by DS9. Her episode with Odo is stellar.

She's actually got 3 episodes on DS9. The middle one is a crap episode all around (although she's solid in it) but the first and last ones have great stuff between her and Odo.

Feral

Hardtarget

fuck i'm dying at this holy shit

wandering

if you don’t like the actor who plays Lwaxana, I have bad news. She appears in literally hundreds of Star Trek episodes

The Wolfman

wandering wrote: »

if you don’t like the actor who plays Lwaxana, I have bad news. She appears in literally hundreds of Star Trek episodes

Nepotism!

But seriously, I often forget she's also the voice of the computer. It's such an understated role, almost completely the opposite of how bombastic she plays Lwaxana.

Commander Zoom

I know there's at least one scene early on where they make a point of having her talk to herself.

Oh, and she was also (the original) Number One, Christine Chapel, and about half the women in TAS (all the ones that weren't Nichelle). Plus a semi-regular in the first season of Earth: Final Conflict and a really good guest star on Babylon 5. Majel was a hard-working actor.

Commander Zoom

Also, one of my favorite bits of VOY is when she gets to break character just a little in one of the Doctor's daydreams:

Warning - warp core breach a lot sooner than you think.

Last chance to be a hero, Doctor! Get going.

Mancingtom

Star Trek is good.

I wouldn't have minded more stories about Lwaxana as a diplomat than gadfly mom. Can you imagine her and Gowron in room together?

exis

Watched Sons of Mogh recently. I thought the episode was great and Kurn especially was super awesome, but man the end was total bullshit.

Wiping his memory just seems wrong in so many ways.

• How could they do this without asking him? What an insane violation of him not just as a klingon with all the requisite noble death baggage, but just as a person.
• Bashir just goes along with it without blinking, seems wildly out of character for him.
• They don't even consult Sisko? So Bashir and Worf are within their rights to unilaterally decide to do this without needing to go up the chain at all.
• It doesn't seem to be given any sort of gravity. I feel like in TNG this could have been the main plot for an entire episode, and Picard would have chewed it up. It raises an interesting question about whether wiping somebody's memory is better than killing them outright (you know, that thing that everybody on the station was totally horrified at the prospect of).

Meh. The more I think about it the more it bums me out. I do hope we see Kurn later in some capacity. The possibility is the only silver lining here.

DanHibiki

exis wrote: »

Watched Sons of Mogh recently. I thought the episode was great and Kurn especially was super awesome, but man the end was total bullshit.

Wiping his memory just seems wrong in so many ways.

• How could they do this without asking him? What an insane violation of him not just as a klingon with all the requisite noble death baggage, but just as a person.
• Bashir just goes along with it without blinking, seems wildly out of character for him.
• They don't even consult Sisko? So Bashir and Worf are within their rights to unilaterally decide to do this without needing to go up the chain at all.
• It doesn't seem to be given any sort of gravity. I feel like in TNG this could have been the main plot for an entire episode, and Picard would have chewed it up. It raises an interesting question about whether wiping somebody's memory is better than killing them outright (you know, that thing that everybody on the station was totally horrified at the prospect of).

Meh. The more I think about it the more it bums me out. I do hope we see Kurn later in some capacity. The possibility is the only silver lining here.

in the federation murder is fine as long as the body doesn't go to waste. Just stuff a new brain or personality in there and you're good to go.

Also this was like an entire episode of B5 covering everything you mentioned. Go watch Babylon 5, in fact everyone should go watch Babylon 5 right now, even if you've seen it. You're just wasting valuable Babylon 5 watching time by not watching Babylon 5.

Coinage

exis wrote: »

Watched Sons of Mogh recently. I thought the episode was great and Kurn especially was super awesome, but man the end was total bullshit.

Wiping his memory just seems wrong in so many ways.

• How could they do this without asking him? What an insane violation of him not just as a klingon with all the requisite noble death baggage, but just as a person.
• Bashir just goes along with it without blinking, seems wildly out of character for him.
• They don't even consult Sisko? So Bashir and Worf are within their rights to unilaterally decide to do this without needing to go up the chain at all.
• It doesn't seem to be given any sort of gravity. I feel like in TNG this could have been the main plot for an entire episode, and Picard would have chewed it up. It raises an interesting question about whether wiping somebody's memory is better than killing them outright (you know, that thing that everybody on the station was totally horrified at the prospect of).

Meh. The more I think about it the more it bums me out. I do hope we see Kurn later in some capacity. The possibility is the only silver lining here.

The really dumb thing is that he just needed to wait a few more years and he could have

joined House of Martok with Worf and Alexander

...

Commander Zoom

STO put it all right, though it was several years later. Seems they didn't like that ep either.

Anzekay

Lwaxana grated on me the first few times I saw her, and then the forced euthanasia planet episode comes and suddenly I love her

and then rewatching her earlier episodes, I suddenly like her a whole bunch again

she's just great

Jacobkosh

My personal guess is that a lot of people just struggle with the fact that many Lwaxana episodes lean heavily on fremdschamen - an emotion that a decent number of people find viscerally unwelcome at any level, and one which mainstream TV barely ever trafficked in back in the 1980s.

I think a lot of people in the audience didn't like feeling that way and just kind of broadly blamed the character and thought there was something bad or wrong with her stories. On the flip side I've seen a lot of reappraisal of Lwaxana in recent years and I wonder if it's at least partly because her stuff is so comparatively tame after a diet of The Office, Curb Your Enthusiasm etc.

Anzekay

I just rewatched Half a Life tonight because of this talk of Lwaxana

god the end scene still makes me a bit choked up

shryke

Jacobkosh wrote: »

My personal guess is that a lot of people just struggle with the fact that many Lwaxana episodes lean heavily on fremdschamen - an emotion that a decent number of people find viscerally unwelcome at any level, and one which mainstream TV barely ever trafficked in back in the 1980s.

I think a lot of people in the audience didn't like feeling that way and just kind of broadly blamed the character and thought there was something bad or wrong with her stories. On the flip side I've seen a lot of reappraisal of Lwaxana in recent years and I wonder if it's at least partly because her stuff is so comparatively tame after a diet of The Office, Curb Your Enthusiasm etc.

I think there's a decent amount of truth to this. I think it's also why her DS9 appearances get more praise generally because they lean less on awkward comedy.

Hardtarget

exis wrote: »

Watched Sons of Mogh recently. I thought the episode was great and Kurn especially was super awesome, but man the end was total bullshit.

Wiping his memory just seems wrong in so many ways.

• How could they do this without asking him? What an insane violation of him not just as a klingon with all the requisite noble death baggage, but just as a person.
• Bashir just goes along with it without blinking, seems wildly out of character for him.
• They don't even consult Sisko? So Bashir and Worf are within their rights to unilaterally decide to do this without needing to go up the chain at all.
• It doesn't seem to be given any sort of gravity. I feel like in TNG this could have been the main plot for an entire episode, and Picard would have chewed it up. It raises an interesting question about whether wiping somebody's memory is better than killing them outright (you know, that thing that everybody on the station was totally horrified at the prospect of).

Meh. The more I think about it the more it bums me out. I do hope we see Kurn later in some capacity. The possibility is the only silver lining here.

it is a great episode with a TERRIBLE ending. The fact that the Doctor is ok with it literally makes no sense and the fact that they don't involve Sisko so he can't say no is super fucked. Greatest Gen podcast just did this episode last week actually, it's a good listen. https://www.maximumfun.org/greatest-generation/greatest-generation-ds9-ep-262-weeaboo-klingons-ds9-s4e14

Heffling

Jacobkosh wrote: »

My personal guess is that a lot of people just struggle with the fact that many Lwaxana episodes lean heavily on fremdschamen - an emotion that a decent number of people find viscerally unwelcome at any level, and one which mainstream TV barely ever trafficked in back in the 1980s.

I think a lot of people in the audience didn't like feeling that way and just kind of broadly blamed the character and thought there was something bad or wrong with her stories. On the flip side I've seen a lot of reappraisal of Lwaxana in recent years and I wonder if it's at least partly because her stuff is so comparatively tame after a diet of The Office, Curb Your Enthusiasm etc.

Although I was completely unaware that there was a word for this, fremdschamen is exactly why I liked Lwaxana Troi when I saw these episodes. She showed up in my pre-teen and early teen years and quite obviously didn't care about conventions, as long as ignoring them didn't cause harm.

Kupi

(I had to look it up. It means "shame felt on behalf of someone else". "Cringe comedy" is a close modern idiom, I think.)

Winky

edit: this isn't chat thread!

Feral

knitdan

Would you describe de color of DeForest as Kelley green

knitdan

Wow they really ended season 2 with a Riker clip episode?

It was the only clip show filmed during the series and was created due to a lack of funds left over from other episodes during the season.

Oh, good.

knitdan

Hmm, they appear to have gotten rid of the dickhead writer who hates Dr. Crusher, and brought her back.

Which is fine, but I was just getting used to Dr. Pulaski.

knitdan

Wesley: uh guys I just created semi-intelligent life as a science project and if we don’t do something it’ll eat the whole ship and kill us all

Picard: hmm well let’s not be too hasty, after all there’s the Prime Directive to consider

Motherfucker
Fuck The Prime Directive

Gim

I spotted Diana Muldaur's voice in a Batman TAS episode yesterday. T'was moderately proud of that catch.

Hardtarget

knitdan wrote: »

Wow they really ended season 2 with a Riker clip episode?

It was the only clip show filmed during the series and was created due to a lack of funds left over from other episodes during the season.

Oh, good.

it also covered for the gigantic writer's strike of '89 if i recall

wandering

Better clip show idea: episode where Riker sits down to watch Star Trek: The Animated Series

RMS Oceanic

A clip show where Riker walks into the ready room and Picard asks if he remembers that time he walked into the ready room and shows the beginning of the same scene again and repeats until end of episode.

Recursion!

knitdan

There’s some madeup future medicine Dr. Crusher uses a lot and it sounds like “tricorder-zine” which always makes me think it’s made of finely-ground tricorders.

Ray Wise!

RMS Oceanic

A magazine about Tricorders. Has recommended the Mark 4000 three years running!

knitdan

Ok this episode where they keep doing crazier and crazier stunts trying to obey the Prime Directive is a joy

Winky

knitdan wrote: »

Wesley: uh guys I just created semi-intelligent life as a science project and if we don’t do something it’ll eat the whole ship and kill us all

Picard: hmm well let’s not be too hasty, after all there’s the Prime Directive to consider

Motherfucker
Fuck The Prime Directive

No way! That’s the reason I love Picard though!

Everyone in sci-fi is always like “we have to kill this thing” and Picard is all “let’s try talking to it!”