As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

the pod comes for us all in the end [jobs]

199100102104105

Posts

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Gamification only works if you have really clear goal conditions and solid ways to measure. If you're doing all the work for that, you may as well just automate it as the things that gamification is good at (speeding up routine work) is also what neural nets are generally good at, so unless there's a real physical or social component, just spend the money on machine learning.

    No, it is bad and harmful

    It's making laborers compete with each other to see which one of them can enhance their boss's profits the most

    It's disgusting

    Competition is a fact of life. It's a fundamental human drive. As long as they aren't abusing it to worsen people's emotional or physical well-being (e.g., people skipping breaks, working extended hours, undercutting their peers to "win", etc.), I'm not sure I agree that it's an inherently unethical practice.

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Gamification only works if you have really clear goal conditions and solid ways to measure. If you're doing all the work for that, you may as well just automate it as the things that gamification is good at (speeding up routine work) is also what neural nets are generally good at, so unless there's a real physical or social component, just spend the money on machine learning.

    No, it is bad and harmful

    It's making laborers compete with each other to see which one of them can enhance their boss's profits the most

    It's disgusting

    Competition is a fact of life. It's a fundamental human drive. As long as they aren't abusing it to worsen people's emotional or physical well-being (e.g., people skipping breaks, working extended hours, undercutting their peers to "win", etc.), I'm not sure I agree that it's an inherently unethical practice.

    I disagree, competition within an organization pretty much always becomes toxic. See: Sears.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    Sometimes I sell my stuff on Ebay
  • expendableexpendable Silly Goose Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Gamification only works if you have really clear goal conditions and solid ways to measure. If you're doing all the work for that, you may as well just automate it as the things that gamification is good at (speeding up routine work) is also what neural nets are generally good at, so unless there's a real physical or social component, just spend the money on machine learning.

    No, it is bad and harmful

    It's making laborers compete with each other to see which one of them can enhance their boss's profits the most

    It's disgusting

    Competition is a fact of life. It's a fundamental human drive. As long as they aren't abusing it to worsen people's emotional or physical well-being (e.g., people skipping breaks, working extended hours, undercutting their peers to "win", etc.), I'm not sure I agree that it's an inherently unethical practice.

    Combine with basing evals on score ranks based on the game and using a system that mandates the bottom X number are fired and it becomes real toxic real fast.

    Or like, the number of companies that demand constant improvement: there comes a point where one person CANT improve more, and it's not that they're bad and should be let go, it's that they've reached the limits of what can be done, but it'll still reflect poorly on them.

    Djiem wrote: »
    Lokiamis wrote: »
    So the servers suddenly decide to cramp up during the last six percent.
    Man, the Director will really go out of his way to be a dick to L4D players.
    Steam
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Competition and gamification can be good when you're competing with yourself. If you must do competition within teams, at least don't tie to some sort of zero-sum reward because you will being out the worst in people.

    steam_sig.png
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    I don't see how making your workers compete with each other for anything at all is good

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    I don't see how making your workers compete with each other for anything at all is good

    That's one thing I really liked learning about OKRs - they weren't conflict based, they were aspirational. You were doing them wrong if you met 100% of them, so you tried to push yourself. Plus it was completely transparent so people knew what everyone else was working on, and could help if necessary.

    Sure, it's an ideal that likely is not lived up to.. but it really seems to eliminate a lot of the silos that things like gamification can create.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW7WlT6OJxE

    internal competitions are actually extremely good because it leads to al pacino berating kevin spacey with slurs for several minutes

  • MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    WHOEVER BRINGS ME THE HEAD OF TERRENCE FROM ACCOUNTING FIRST WILL GET A BONUS THIS YEAR

    IT MUST BE A CLEAN CUT, ONE SLICE. YOU BRING ME TERRY'S HEAD WITH JAGGED CUTS AND YOU'RE FIRED

  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    Moriveth wrote: »
    WHOEVER BRINGS ME THE HEAD OF TERRENCE FROM ACCOUNTING FIRST WILL GET A BONUS THIS YEAR

    IT MUST BE A CLEAN CUT, ONE SLICE. YOU BRING ME TERRY'S HEAD WITH JAGGED CUTS AND YOU'RE FIRED

    i've been maining Baraka in MK11

    finally all my ultra violent video game training is paying off!

  • MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Brolo wrote: »
    Moriveth wrote: »
    WHOEVER BRINGS ME THE HEAD OF TERRENCE FROM ACCOUNTING FIRST WILL GET A BONUS THIS YEAR

    IT MUST BE A CLEAN CUT, ONE SLICE. YOU BRING ME TERRY'S HEAD WITH JAGGED CUTS AND YOU'RE FIRED

    i've been maining Baraka in MK11

    finally all my ultra violent video game training is paying off!

    Hey now, I just want his head, I didn't ask you to rip out his brain and take a bite out of it

    That's a write-up for improperly following company procedure

  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Well I went to work for 3 hours today to do that safety event/schmoozing scheme and it went fucking great because apparently I have the ability to become a game show host whenever necessary.

    I hated every minute of it and wondered why I didn't just quit to go follow my dreams of being an artist out in Alaska or something, making paintings of trout and mooses.

    Pretty much just like a real talk show host!

    Juggernut on
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Imagine running a company the way most people play Fire Emblem

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Gamification only works if you have really clear goal conditions and solid ways to measure. If you're doing all the work for that, you may as well just automate it as the things that gamification is good at (speeding up routine work) is also what neural nets are generally good at, so unless there's a real physical or social component, just spend the money on machine learning.

    No, it is bad and harmful

    It's making laborers compete with each other to see which one of them can enhance their boss's profits the most

    It's disgusting

    I mean, part of gamification is making the thing you're gamifying more enjoyable... If I have to be at work anyway, someone making it something I actually enjoy is not 'harmful' to me. Mind you that should be added with more protections to workers than we currently have in the United States, but stating that gamification is outright harmful seems like a huge oversimplification.

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    Gamification only works if you have really clear goal conditions and solid ways to measure. If you're doing all the work for that, you may as well just automate it as the things that gamification is good at (speeding up routine work) is also what neural nets are generally good at, so unless there's a real physical or social component, just spend the money on machine learning.

    No, it is bad and harmful

    It's making laborers compete with each other to see which one of them can enhance their boss's profits the most

    It's disgusting

    Competition is a fact of life. It's a fundamental human drive. As long as they aren't abusing it to worsen people's emotional or physical well-being (e.g., people skipping breaks, working extended hours, undercutting their peers to "win", etc.), I'm not sure I agree that it's an inherently unethical practice.

    I disagree, competition within an organization pretty much always becomes toxic. See: Sears.

    Sears didn't gamify anything?

  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Sears did make their workers compete for sales and their stores compete for sales to stay open

  • LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    New year student who wasn't answering the phone or making tea has started answering the phone and making rounds of tea.

    She's even clarified how we like the tea. She's a keeper!

  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    Sears did make their workers compete for sales and their stores compete for sales to stay open

    AKA most other businesses with multiple locations or facilities?

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Sears was being intentionally run into the ground by the venture capital firm that purchased it.

    usnTyq4.jpg
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Hi my first job was at a Sears.

    It fuckin blew whale peen.

    The president at the time was a Wizard of Oz ass cryptid who was into Ayn Rand and wanted Shop Your Way to be a blend of Myspace and Amazon. I went to a training thing once and the dude was like "we gotta get new people in cause right now the only people who shop here are your grandparents and they're all 'going to sleep' (read: fucking old as shit and dying)"

    My first day there an ancient man walked up to me, shit himself, and then asked me if he could buy a mower deck for a 10,000 year old lawn mower. I think it was just a dinosaur. It was a flintstones ass dinosaur. I'm not joking.

    Sears is a textbook example of what happens to a business that refuses to adapt and also let a goddamned Randian run things. The only reason they lasted as long as they did was because they were old and had a lot of brick and mortar stores in prime locations they could sell off and list as profits.

    Edit: back when Sears was a reputable, high end store, the commission angle made sense. But towards the end yeah, it sucked.

    Juggernut on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Yeah, I worked at sears for six months in 2006

    It was insane

  • expendableexpendable Silly Goose Registered User regular
    People, the Sears internal competitions were really really a step above "compete against other locations we have."

    It's a major factor in how the CEO destroyed the company. Executives were pitted against each other, and that trickled down to the rank-and-file. People in meetings started using screen protectors on their devices to keep other people they worked for from seeing anything on their screens. Information was hoarded and not shared.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/eddie-lamperts-sears-strategy-disaster-2013-7

    https://www.salon.com/2013/12/10/ayn_rand_loving_ceo_destroys_his_empire_partner/

    https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4385-failing-to-plan-how-ayn-rand-destroyed-sears
    And so if the apparel division wanted to use the services of IT or human resources, they had to sign contracts with them, or alternately to use outside contractors if it would improve the financial performance of the unit—regardless of whether it would improve the performance of the company as a whole. Kimes tells the story of how Sears’s widely trusted appliance brand, Kenmore, was divided between the appliance division and the branding division. The former had to pay fees to the latter for any transaction. But selling non-Sears-branded appliances was more profitable to the appliances division, so they began to offer more prominent in-store placement to rivals of Kenmore products, undermining overall profitability. Its in-house tool brand, Craftsman—so ubiquitous an American trademark that it plays a pivotal role in a Neal Stephenson science fiction bestseller, Seveneves, 5,000 years in the future—refused to pay extra royalties to the in-house battery brand DieHard, so they went with an external provider, again indifferent to what this meant for the company’s bottom line as a whole.

    Djiem wrote: »
    Lokiamis wrote: »
    So the servers suddenly decide to cramp up during the last six percent.
    Man, the Director will really go out of his way to be a dick to L4D players.
    Steam
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Yeah, I worked at sears for six months in 2006

    It was insane

    Lawn and Garden?

    Juggernut on
  • mightyjongyomightyjongyo Sour Crrm East Bay, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    Imagine running a company the way most people play Fire Emblem

    Pairing people up based on their compatibility scores and playing it safe so that you don't lose people permanently?

  • expendableexpendable Silly Goose Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Sears was being intentionally run into the ground by the venture capital firm that purchased it.

    By all accounts, the guy in question sincerely believed that running Sears like an Ayn Rand-style utopia, it would flourish. Once it was quite obvious it was wrong, he started working to profit off it.

    Djiem wrote: »
    Lokiamis wrote: »
    So the servers suddenly decide to cramp up during the last six percent.
    Man, the Director will really go out of his way to be a dick to L4D players.
    Steam
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    Imagine running a company the way most people play Fire Emblem

    Pairing people up based on their compatibility scores and playing it safe so that you don't lose people permanently?

    I was thinking more stat growths, recruiting people from other departments, and surrounding Marketing staff on all sides so they can't run or act while the weak newbie stabs them to death for XP

  • MulysaSemproniusMulysaSempronius but also susie nyRegistered User regular
    Wasn't Sears the company that had different divisions get advertisement space based on how well they had done the previous month/week/whatever? So, around Mother's day, if the menswear section had done well, the main advertisements would be for menswear and not, say, anything for Mother's day.

    If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Yeah, I worked at sears for six months in 2006

    It was insane

    Lawn and Garden?

    Home Improvements
    Lawn and Garden
    Electronics
    Home Appliances

    I outfitted a new home once and made 200 dollars for it

    And then did not meet the sales quota for the week, so i was paid nothing for the rest of the week, I might have got the base pay, but if was averaged with commission, so the base was way below minimum wage

    We had to reach a target to even see the commission

    If you didn't hit the target, you didn't get paid any commissions until you met the weekly goal

    My memory may be spotty, that was a tumultuous time of my life

    I do remember there was some mechanic that if you weren't actively selling appliances, you were hurting yourself


  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    The Sears in my local mall is closing in a few months. It was the first store in the mall. Its one of the oldest Sears locations.

    Its like, yeah it was destroyed first by bad decisions then by venture capitalists, but its like watching one of the Colossi die in Shadows of the Colossus.

  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Yeah, I worked at sears for six months in 2006

    It was insane

    Lawn and Garden?

    Home Improvements
    Lawn and Garden
    Electronics
    Home Appliances

    I outfitted a new home once and made 200 dollars for it

    And then did not meet the sales quota for the week, so i was paid nothing for the rest of the week, I might have got the base pay, but if was averaged with commission, so the base was way below minimum wage

    We had to reach a target to even see the commission

    If you didn't hit the target, you didn't get paid any commissions until you met the weekly goal

    My memory may be spotty, that was a tumultuous time of my life

    I do remember there was some mechanic that if you weren't actively selling appliances, you were hurting yourself


    Ah. It was not that bad when I worked there in... 2013? We'd get the commission regardless but on slow days I might've made like, .85$ in commission.

    I did learn how to rebuild a ratchet which is a skill that has served me in absolutely no capacity whatsoever thus far in my life.

    Juggernut on
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    i remember when Eaton's tried to do one last re-brand and came up with this musical number in late november 2000

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nvS6a7cvys

    and it was pretty good!

    the company went defunct in march 2001

  • MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    This feels like the work of a marketing director who knows the end is nigh and has decided to spend the rest of the budget the way he's always wanted to.

  • DysDys how am I even using this gun Registered User regular
    My local Sears closed a few months ago, which was neat to see cause they sold all their store fixtures and I didn't know that was a thing that happened.

    My girlfriend bought a mannequin for like $15. Specifically one of the below-the-waist dude ones. The eventual prank it was used for was, on the next occasion she visited home, secretly leaving it in her sister's bed.

    It has since been back and forth a few times between homes, and I'll be damned if I don't crack up whenever I get surprised by the thing.

  • DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    expendable wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Sears was being intentionally run into the ground by the venture capital firm that purchased it.

    By all accounts, the guy in question sincerely believed that running Sears like an Ayn Rand-style utopia, it would flourish. Once it was quite obvious it was wrong, he started working to profit off it.

    I dunno about this guy but I've become increasingly convinced in recent years that the 0.1% are nothing but a bunch of lying thieves.

    They come in, make up some bullshit about Ayn Rand philosophy and while everyone (including the 1%!) are busy arguing about philosophy they take all the money and run. Same bs story in government, same bs story in corporations, same bs story in academia.

    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
  • Drake ChambersDrake Chambers Lay out my formal shorts. Registered User regular
    expendable wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Sears was being intentionally run into the ground by the venture capital firm that purchased it.

    By all accounts, the guy in question sincerely believed that running Sears like an Ayn Rand-style utopia, it would flourish. Once it was quite obvious it was wrong, he started working to profit off it.

    I dunno about this guy but I've become increasingly convinced in recent years that the 0.1% are nothing but a bunch of lying thieves.

    They come in, make up some bullshit about Ayn Rand philosophy and while everyone (including the 1%!) are busy arguing about philosophy they take all the money and run. Same bs story in government, same bs story in corporations, same bs story in academia.

    I think of them like people exploiting bugs in MMOs. Profiting off an exploit to make a shitton of money gives them access to the exclusive untested areas of the game where they can then find other exploits and before long their amount of gold glitches out and it's a meaninglessly large random number.

    Except instead of an MMO, they did it in real life.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I can't figure out why sears didn't pivot their magazine department hard to the internet. It is literally how they did business for the first like 80 years.

    I know the CEO thought it was a fad, but, still, it would've costed them hardly anything to beat amazon to market since they had all the infrastructure in place already. They would've been ahead of amazon by 30 some odd years.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Oh man... my plans are coming to fruition. I just had a "show how to use Git and GitLab" session blow up into a training session / advertisement to one of our main ERP areas, talking about how we can help them version control a crappy piece of software called PeopleSoft.

    I'm... I'm shocked. It has been my dream for years to get PeopleSoft version controlled, but.. well. Oracle.
    This may be the beginning of good things.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Liiya wrote: »
    New year student who wasn't answering the phone or making tea has started answering the phone and making rounds of tea.

    She's even clarified how we like the tea. She's a keeper!

    Just had to show her how to fertilize the tomatoes, huh?

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Oh man... my plans are coming to fruition. I just had a "show how to use Git and GitLab" session blow up into a training session / advertisement to one of our main ERP areas, talking about how we can help them version control a crappy piece of software called PeopleSoft.

    I'm... I'm shocked. It has been my dream for years to get PeopleSoft version controlled, but.. well. Oracle.
    This may be the beginning of good things.

    Just kill PeopleSoft with fire. It's so bad.

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    Oh man... my plans are coming to fruition. I just had a "show how to use Git and GitLab" session blow up into a training session / advertisement to one of our main ERP areas, talking about how we can help them version control a crappy piece of software called PeopleSoft.

    I'm... I'm shocked. It has been my dream for years to get PeopleSoft version controlled, but.. well. Oracle.
    This may be the beginning of good things.

    Just kill PeopleSoft with fire. It's so bad.

    I know, but we signed a really big contract about 10 years ago that we're still paying for. So I'm trying to make it... less painful, I guess?

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Liiya wrote: »
    New year student who wasn't answering the phone or making tea has started answering the phone and making rounds of tea.

    She's even clarified how we like the tea. She's a keeper!

    Just had to show her how to fertilize the tomatoes, huh?

    M E TA .

This discussion has been closed.