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A GST On The Ethics of Democrats Appearing on Alt Right Sympathetic Media

enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
Bernie Sanders was on Joe Rogan's podcast. Joe Rogan is a sympathizer with a variety of alt right positions and endorser of unhinged conspiracy theories like the Clintons had Seth Rich murdered.

Some people view this as outreach to a place that doesn't often hear left wing views.
Others people view it as a way for an asshole to make money off of Sanders and that further legitimizes extreme viewpoints on the right as being worthy of included in the national debate.

Please talk about it here like Jeffe asked us to.

Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
Warren 2020
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Posts

  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    All media sucks and has drawbacks. It matters what interviewees say when in the setting. This of course does not include websites devoted to pedophilia or actual nazis because that is where we are at now with respect for one another that I have to explicitly say this.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
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  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    edited August 8
    I think it's important to point out that Rogan is notable as one of the big name entry points people take from mainstream and mainstream-ish news sources into the alt-right ecosystem.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/59ade5/inside-youtubes-alt-media-ecosystem

    The success of his Sanders episode above and beyond his normal success indicates that he's getting new views from Sanders more than Sanders is getting new views in front of Rogan's audience.

    Putting aside the ethics of endorsing by appearance a show that, by whatever magic, tends to lead people down the alt-right rabit hole, I think there's a pragmatic concern that Sanders Democrats who start watching Rogan might end up moving closer to the Bernie Bro of myth.

    Kamar on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    So, in the other thread, someone brought up the idea of Rogan being a "shock jock" in the vein of Howard Stern. Which I can see, but deserves a point to be made - Stern wasn't all harmless fun. He helped normalize sexism and misogyny in our culture with his antics. If Rogan is following in that model, it's not one to be admired.

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  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    edited August 8
    I mean, as pointed out in the Primary thread Rogan hasn't just let guests run wild with stupid conspiracy theories. He was explicitly pushing the Seth Rich conspiracy theory.

    If we have Rogan pushing similar conspiracy theories to new Sanders-drawn audience members about Sanders' current primary opponents in a few months, or in the leadup to the general after we have a candidate picked, ??????

    Kamar on
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  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    So, in the other thread, someone brought up the idea of Rogan being a "shock jock" in the vein of Howard Stern. Which I can see, but deserves a point to be made - Stern wasn't all harmless fun. He helped normalize sexism and misogyny in our culture with his antics. If Rogan is following in that model, it's not one to be admired.

    I wouldn't be happy if one of our candidates went on Stern, either, so I don't know why describing Rogan as similar to Stern is supposed to make me feel better.

    SleepKamarPreacherMilljmcdonaldBandableMan in the MistsKristmas KthulhuElldren
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    Should no candidates go on shock jock type radio shows? What kind of criteria are we talking here?

    psn: PhasenWeeple
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Sanders also thinks that immigrants depress wages and gun manufacturers should be shielded from lawsuits, also that the 2016 democratic primary was completely rigged, I don't really see great incompatibility here nor think it reflects much on actual democrats. Nor do I think Sanders would care about the larger impact beyond his own presidential ambitions.

    SleepEddyMarathonNo-QuarterBigJoeMBandableGnome-InterruptusDarkewolfeAistanSiska
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    edited August 8
    Copying this from the other thread. This is part of Rogan and Jimmy Dore's conversation with regards to Seth Rich:
    JIMMY DORE: Barack Obama's entire cabinet came from an email from CitiGroup, so people trying to say that somehow corruption started on Jan. 20, 2017 are fooling themselves. And that is what I am fighting against on my show.

    JOE ROGAN: And you're one of the only people who are doing that, one of the only people who are online that you're not obligated to shill for the left, you're not doing it. But everybody else seems to be... There are so few that are calling out people in the Democratic Party for what is really going on. I was infuriated when people that I knew, that I am friends with, try to tell me that Hillary Clinton was a good choice, that she is the sane choice. Look, I don't know if she's murdered people, but I know that I'm worried she's murdered people. That's a real concern. This Seth Rich shit?

    From that same podcast, here's them pushing both-sidesism, Jill Stein, and Wikileaks.
    JOE ROGAN: It was confusing to me that you were saying, 'If you want to vote for a real progressive, what about Jill Stein?'

    JIMMY DORE: Here's a program you actually agree with: The Green New Deal...

    So we all know for a fact because of the WikiLeaks that Hillary Clinton had a thing called the Pied Piper Strategy, which was she told her minions in the press, please prop up Donald Trump. Why did she want Donald Trump to be propped up? She wanted to run against Donald Trump, because she knew she was so repulsive that she needed someone who was more repulsive than her. Turns out that was a bad calculation. It was called the Pied Piper Strategy, and that's why when you turned on [MSNBC's] Chris Hayes, he was showing Donald Trump's empty podium for an hour instead of Bernie Sanders, and then he wags his fingers at people with no money and no power for not voting for a corporatist warmonger like Hillary Clinton.

    So, what I'm getting at here is- why is it such an ask to expect a frontrunner candidate for the Democratic party to either not patronize this person's show, or call them out on their bullshit if they do go on their show?

    https://realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/02/13/jimmy_dore_people_who_think_corruption_started_on_jan_20_2017_are_fooling_themselves.html

    No-Quarter on
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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited August 8
    Phasen wrote: »
    Should no candidates go on shock jock type radio shows? What kind of criteria are we talking here?

    Sure, I don’t think any candidate from the Democratic side should go on a show where they openly promote conspiracy theories (even if it wasn’t on the episode they appeared on), or a show that’s disgustingly misogynistic like how Stern’s was.

    I don’t think that sets the bar unacceptably high by any means. If anything it’s pretty low.

    Marathon on
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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    MarathonAngelHedgieKamarPreacherFencingsaxshrykeiTunesIsEvilForarSyphonBlueMegaMekViskodNo-Quarterdispatch.oMillLoisLanejmcdonaldmarajiBullheadNiryaMrVyngaardLord_AsmodeusMan in the MistsNobeardOrcaKristmas KthulhuElldrenLabelGnome-InterruptusTofystedethAistan
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    edited August 8
    Cross-posting as I do not know the forum's opinion on Ethan and Hila:
    Andrew Yang appeared on H3 Podcast and goes over some candidate topics and policy with Ethan and Hila.

    KoopahTroopah on
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  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Should no candidates go on shock jock type radio shows? What kind of criteria are we talking here?

    Sure, I don’t think any candidate from the Democratic side should go on a show where they openly promote conspiracy theories (even if it wasn’t on the episode they appeared on), or a show that’s disgustingly misogynistic like how Stern’s was.

    I don’t think that sets the bar unacceptably high by any means. If anything it’s pretty low.

    I completely disagree. Was Harris wrong to appear on the Breakfast Club? Was Warren wrong to do so as well?

    psn: PhasenWeeple
  • YamiB.YamiB. Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited August 8
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Should no candidates go on shock jock type radio shows? What kind of criteria are we talking here?

    Sure, I don’t think any candidate from the Democratic side should go on a show where they openly promote conspiracy theories (even if it wasn’t on the episode they appeared on), or a show that’s disgustingly misogynistic like how Stern’s was.

    I don’t think that sets the bar unacceptably high by any means. If anything it’s pretty low.

    I completely disagree. Was Harris wrong to appear on the Breakfast Club? Was Warren wrong to do so as well?

    If they frequently discuss how Hillary Clinton murdered Seth Rich or have women take their clothes off in the studio, then yes it would be wrong for them to appear on the show.

    And this is, of course, completely ignoring that the Breakfast Club has wide appeal in the African American community, you know, a community that actually supports Democrats.

    Marathon on
    QuidSleepAngelHedgiePreacherNo-QuarterFencingsaxshrykeSyphonBlueMillBigJoeMMrVyngaardLord_AsmodeusMan in the MistsNobeardKristmas KthulhuElldrenLabel
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
    KaputaJulius
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Should no candidates go on shock jock type radio shows? What kind of criteria are we talking here?

    Sure, I don’t think any candidate from the Democratic side should go on a show where they openly promote conspiracy theories (even if it wasn’t on the episode they appeared on), or a show that’s disgustingly misogynistic like how Stern’s was.

    I don’t think that sets the bar unacceptably high by any means. If anything it’s pretty low.

    I completely disagree. Was Harris wrong to appear on the Breakfast Club? Was Warren wrong to do so as well?

    If they frequently discuss how Hillary Clinton murdered Seth Rich or have women take their clothes off in the studio, then yes it would be wrong for them to appear on the show.

    And this is, of course, completely ignoring that the Breakfast Club has wide appeal in the African American community, you know, a community that actually supports Democrats.

    So as long as its for the team it's ok to truck with conspiracy theories?

    psn: PhasenWeeple
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    The last decade has demonstrated otherwise.

    American conservatives are a group whose ideals repeatedly revolve around obtaining power at any cost for those with an R by their name and denying anything and everything that contradicts with what they claim to be true.

    The day they decide to grow up and approach society like adults is the day when trying to appeal to them is worthwhile.

    MrVyngaardMan in the MistsNobeardKristmas KthulhuElldrenLabelGnome-InterruptusAistan
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    Fox is not the only place to appear on, there are other outlets that have the same, if not more traffic.

    If someone only watches Fox News and never ABC, CBS, or NBC news, they aren’t going to vote for a Democrat ever.

    QuidSyphonBlueNobeardKristmas KthulhurndmheroElldrenGnome-InterruptusAistan
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud bear with us as we do some "rebranding" Registered User regular
    Joe Rogan is gross with a capital G and R and O and S and also another S. He is gross and his show is anti-intellectual nonsense.
    On the other hand, we need nonconvential ways of engaging younger voters and podcasts is a great one. Joe Rogan is one of the top podcasters and has one of the largest audiences. Do I think it is super gross? Yes. But the 2020 election is going to be very ugly and if we don't at least try to engage more voters then we are doomed. Did Bernie go on and say how much he loved Joe Rogan and how much Shillary did 9/11? I doubt it.

    ElendilMegaMekSmurphDoodmannwanderingDee Kae
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited August 8
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Should no candidates go on shock jock type radio shows? What kind of criteria are we talking here?

    Sure, I don’t think any candidate from the Democratic side should go on a show where they openly promote conspiracy theories (even if it wasn’t on the episode they appeared on), or a show that’s disgustingly misogynistic like how Stern’s was.

    I don’t think that sets the bar unacceptably high by any means. If anything it’s pretty low.

    I completely disagree. Was Harris wrong to appear on the Breakfast Club? Was Warren wrong to do so as well?

    If they frequently discuss how Hillary Clinton murdered Seth Rich or have women take their clothes off in the studio, then yes it would be wrong for them to appear on the show.

    And this is, of course, completely ignoring that the Breakfast Club has wide appeal in the African American community, you know, a community that actually supports Democrats.

    So as long as its for the team it's ok to truck with conspiracy theories?

    What conspiracy theories do they push in the Breakfast Club?

    Alternatively; is it somehow ok to push conspiracy theories that benefit Bernie?

    Marathon on
    QuidAngelHedgieFencingsaxBigJoeMjmcdonaldMan in the MistsElldren
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited August 8
    Quid wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    The last decade has demonstrated otherwise.

    American conservatives are a group whose ideals repeatedly revolve around obtaining power at any cost for those with an R by their name and denying anything and everything that contradicts with what they claim to be true.

    The day they decide to grow up and approach society like adults is the day when trying to appeal to them is worthwhile.

    If you put the barrier of entry to the rest of society as immediately and completely renouncing all they once believed in you will never get anything other than a middle finger as a response.

    Foefaller on
    steam_sig.png
    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudMrMisterSummaryJudgmentNSDFRandKaputaBloodySlothFrankiedarlingSolventjimb213
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    The last decade has demonstrated otherwise.

    American conservatives are a group whose ideals repeatedly revolve around obtaining power at any cost for those with an R by their name and denying anything and everything that contradicts with what they claim to be true.

    The day they decide to grow up and approach society like adults is the day when trying to appeal to them is worthwhile.

    So the best strategy forward for our nation to progress is to not talk to people and hope they see the light of their own accord? I'm sorry I don't see it.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Should no candidates go on shock jock type radio shows? What kind of criteria are we talking here?

    Sure, I don’t think any candidate from the Democratic side should go on a show where they openly promote conspiracy theories (even if it wasn’t on the episode they appeared on), or a show that’s disgustingly misogynistic like how Stern’s was.

    I don’t think that sets the bar unacceptably high by any means. If anything it’s pretty low.

    I completely disagree. Was Harris wrong to appear on the Breakfast Club? Was Warren wrong to do so as well?

    If they frequently discuss how Hillary Clinton murdered Seth Rich or have women take their clothes off in the studio, then yes it would be wrong for them to appear on the show.

    And this is, of course, completely ignoring that the Breakfast Club has wide appeal in the African American community, you know, a community that actually supports Democrats.

    So as long as its for the team it's ok to truck with conspiracy theories?

    What conspiracy theories has the Breakfast Club pushed? I'm being sincere here, because I'm not familiar with it.

    FencingsaxMarathonmarajiMan in the MistsjmcdonaldKristmas KthulhuElldren
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Should no candidates go on shock jock type radio shows? What kind of criteria are we talking here?

    Sure, I don’t think any candidate from the Democratic side should go on a show where they openly promote conspiracy theories (even if it wasn’t on the episode they appeared on), or a show that’s disgustingly misogynistic like how Stern’s was.

    I don’t think that sets the bar unacceptably high by any means. If anything it’s pretty low.

    I completely disagree. Was Harris wrong to appear on the Breakfast Club? Was Warren wrong to do so as well?

    If they frequently discuss how Hillary Clinton murdered Seth Rich or have women take their clothes off in the studio, then yes it would be wrong for them to appear on the show.

    And this is, of course, completely ignoring that the Breakfast Club has wide appeal in the African American community, you know, a community that actually supports Democrats.

    So as long as its for the team it's ok to truck with conspiracy theories?

    What conspiracy theories do they push in the Breakfast Club?

    Alternatively; is it somehow ok to push conspiracy theories that benefit Bernie?

    re alternatively: why would you think that when I have explicitly stated my stance multiple times?

    psn: PhasenWeeple
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    The last decade has demonstrated otherwise.

    American conservatives are a group whose ideals repeatedly revolve around obtaining power at any cost for those with an R by their name and denying anything and everything that contradicts with what they claim to be true.

    The day they decide to grow up and approach society like adults is the day when trying to appeal to them is worthwhile.

    If you put the barrier of entry to the rest of society as renouncing all they once believed in you will never get anything other than a middle finger as a response.

    That's all they've given no matter the approach. Democrats have tried being conciliatory in good faith to the right for decades. The response, without fail, is the right promoting conspiracy theories and stonewalling at every opportunity.

    I can not fathom looking at the entirety of Obama's administration, the right wing response to it, and thinking that the problem was the lack of outreach to the right.

    FencingsaxPreacherMan in the MistsNobeardKristmas KthulhuElldrenGnome-InterruptusTofystedethFANTOMASAistan
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Sanders also thinks that immigrants depress wages and gun manufacturers should be shielded from lawsuits, also that the 2016 democratic primary was completely rigged, I don't really see great incompatibility here nor think it reflects much on actual democrats. Nor do I think Sanders would care about the larger impact beyond his own presidential ambitions.

    This isn’t a thread to have a go at the record of Sanders. Stick to the topic.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud bear with us as we do some "rebranding" Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    The last decade has demonstrated otherwise.

    American conservatives are a group whose ideals repeatedly revolve around obtaining power at any cost for those with an R by their name and denying anything and everything that contradicts with what they claim to be true.

    The day they decide to grow up and approach society like adults is the day when trying to appeal to them is worthwhile.

    If you put the barrier of entry to the rest of society as immediately and completely renouncing all they once believed in you will never get anything other than a middle finger as a response.
    Seriously. Reactionary burn it down politics are a result of this.

    MrMisterFoefallerKaputa
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    The last decade has demonstrated otherwise.

    American conservatives are a group whose ideals repeatedly revolve around obtaining power at any cost for those with an R by their name and denying anything and everything that contradicts with what they claim to be true.

    The day they decide to grow up and approach society like adults is the day when trying to appeal to them is worthwhile.

    If you put the barrier of entry to the rest of society as renouncing all they once believed in you will never get anything other than a middle finger as a response.

    That's all they've given no matter the approach. Democrats have tried being conciliatory in good faith to the right for decades. The response, without fail, is the right promoting conspiracy theories and stonewalling at every opportunity.

    I can not fathom looking at the entirety of Obama's administration, the right wing response to it, and thinking that the problem was the lack of outreach to the right.

    No one has said meeting in the middle and in fact we have said as long as you stick to your ideals then there is no harm in reaching across and talking with people.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
    MrMisterJulius
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    The last decade has demonstrated otherwise.

    American conservatives are a group whose ideals repeatedly revolve around obtaining power at any cost for those with an R by their name and denying anything and everything that contradicts with what they claim to be true.

    The day they decide to grow up and approach society like adults is the day when trying to appeal to them is worthwhile.

    So the best strategy forward for our nation to progress is to not talk to people and hope they see the light of their own accord? I'm sorry I don't see it.

    You can't talk to people who don't want to hear what you're saying. You're free to espouse the strategy of courting racists and sexists in the hopes that that's all they needed to stop supporting sexist and racist politicians. Historically this hasn't worked out especially well.

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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    The last decade has demonstrated otherwise.

    American conservatives are a group whose ideals repeatedly revolve around obtaining power at any cost for those with an R by their name and denying anything and everything that contradicts with what they claim to be true.

    The day they decide to grow up and approach society like adults is the day when trying to appeal to them is worthwhile.

    If you put the barrier of entry to the rest of society as renouncing all they once believed in you will never get anything other than a middle finger as a response.

    That's all they've given no matter the approach. Democrats have tried being conciliatory in good faith to the right for decades. The response, without fail, is the right promoting conspiracy theories and stonewalling at every opportunity.

    I can not fathom looking at the entirety of Obama's administration, the right wing response to it, and thinking that the problem was the lack of outreach to the right.

    No one has said meeting in the middle and in fact we have said as long as you stick to your ideals then there is no harm in reaching across and talking with people.

    There's no harm in opting not to, and arguably a great deal more good to be achieved, by ignoring them and approaching actual uncertain voters and increasing enthusiasm among your own.

    SyphonBlueMan in the MistsGnome-Interruptus
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    YamiB. wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Pretty much every time a Dem goes on a right wing news source, unless they're tearing in to the hosts themselves, I can't help but feel they'd be much better served going just about anywhere else.

    Go shake hands in a battleground district or something.

    So which sources are acceptable to go on? Because pretty much all of the platforms we have going to a wide audience are right-wing and racist.

    There are plenty of options beyond Fox News and Rogan.

    I also didn't say it was unacceptable. Just a waste of time. The people consuming Fox News are the same ones outright denying reality when confronted with it. There's no appealing to them.

    This is almost as bad as accusing the North Korean people of being brain washed. There is always a way in. If you never try you wont find it though.

    The last decade has demonstrated otherwise.

    American conservatives are a group whose ideals repeatedly revolve around obtaining power at any cost for those with an R by their name and denying anything and everything that contradicts with what they claim to be true.

    The day they decide to grow up and approach society like adults is the day when trying to appeal to them is worthwhile.

    If you put the barrier of entry to the rest of society as immediately and completely renouncing all they once believed in you will never get anything other than a middle finger as a response.

    So tell me, how long should minorities accept being second class citizens? Because that's what they're being asked to renounce - their beliefs that women, minorities, LGBTQ folks, etc. should know their place in society. The fact that the response to that is a middle finger explains everything.

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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    the both-sides stoners who listen to joe rogan are the uncertain voters

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    Should no candidates go on shock jock type radio shows? What kind of criteria are we talking here?

    Sure, I don’t think any candidate from the Democratic side should go on a show where they openly promote conspiracy theories (even if it wasn’t on the episode they appeared on), or a show that’s disgustingly misogynistic like how Stern’s was.

    I don’t think that sets the bar unacceptably high by any means. If anything it’s pretty low.

    I completely disagree. Was Harris wrong to appear on the Breakfast Club? Was Warren wrong to do so as well?

    If they frequently discuss how Hillary Clinton murdered Seth Rich or have women take their clothes off in the studio, then yes it would be wrong for them to appear on the show.

    And this is, of course, completely ignoring that the Breakfast Club has wide appeal in the African American community, you know, a community that actually supports Democrats.

    So as long as its for the team it's ok to truck with conspiracy theories?

    What conspiracy theories do they push in the Breakfast Club?

    Alternatively; is it somehow ok to push conspiracy theories that benefit Bernie?

    re alternatively: why would you think that when I have explicitly stated my stance multiple times?

    What conspiracy theories are promoted by the breakfast club?

    QuidAngelHedgieshrykeLoisLaneNiryaMan in the MistsKristmas KthulhuElldrenFANTOMAS
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    the both-sides stoners who listen to joe rogan are the uncertain voters

    I strongly doubt that the conspiracy theory podcast stoners are an especially vital demographic.

    rndmhero
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    .

  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    Joe Rogan is an idiot and his audience consists of idiots. I don't think anyone who already supported Bernie is going to become a Rogan convert to right wing conspiracies, I would be surprised if they even listened to his show again. But if Bernie injected some sanity into the lives of Rogan's regular audience, I think that's a net positive.

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
    Siska
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited August 8
    If you want to reach across, my advice would be to actually talk to those people in a forum where you can control your message without bullshit baggage. Go to those communities, and listen.

    Fencingsax on
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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    the both-sides stoners who listen to joe rogan are the uncertain voters

    I strongly doubt that the conspiracy theory podcast stoners are an especially vital demographic.
    who do you think voted for jill stein

    Sleepjakobagger
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Time and again, shows like Fox News air left wing candidates stating their actual views.

    The show then immediately lies about those views.

    Their viewership accepts these lies and derides those candidates. Nothing changes.

    I am indeed quite content with not lending these shows any more legitimacy than they already hold. That time is easily better spent on a photo op in a battleground state or fundraising or just about anything else, really.

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