The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
WOOD101 - UPDATE: 2/3/2020 - Enc Makes a GM Screen
Enc
A Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
A Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
So one of my dining chairs broke this week, bringing me down to 3 now from the original 6 that went with the table. Rather than replace them, I want to make a pair of simple wooden benches with basic tools/woods.
While DIY project videos and sites are everywhere, I wanted to reach out to folks here on any tips or suggestions to what I should look out for or any resources for a budding furniture carpenter moving forward. I have no tools yet, and will be buying (at least) a sander and drill, but what else should I look for.
The one thing I will not be buying is a saw or joiner, going to have the lumber store cut my planks for me for my first few projects.
What tips, good people?
Updates: 1/23/2020
Getting wood cut at the hardware store is a terrible idea! Also: I am terrified of power saws. I'm going with a Miter Box and handsaw for my cutting needs. Sweat and effort, ho!
Planned Tool list:
Definitely going the miter box route. That should get all my cuts I'll need without needing anything cut at Home Depot. Right now my list is:
Planned Build:
https://krusesworkshop.blogspot.com/2014/04/simple-indooroutdoor-rustic-bench-plan.html
(with some changes to the height and width to match my dining table
Planned Finish:
Going to torch the wood and stain before construction, doing a shou sugi ban effect with a gunstock varnish. After I finish drilling/assembling everything I'll touch up again with the varnish for anywhere that needs it.
While DIY project videos and sites are everywhere, I wanted to reach out to folks here on any tips or suggestions to what I should look out for or any resources for a budding furniture carpenter moving forward. I have no tools yet, and will be buying (at least) a sander and drill, but what else should I look for.
The one thing I will not be buying is a saw or joiner, going to have the lumber store cut my planks for me for my first few projects.
What tips, good people?
Updates: 1/23/2020
Getting wood cut at the hardware store is a terrible idea! Also: I am terrified of power saws. I'm going with a Miter Box and handsaw for my cutting needs. Sweat and effort, ho!
Planned Tool list:
Definitely going the miter box route. That should get all my cuts I'll need without needing anything cut at Home Depot. Right now my list is:
- Sander: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MLSS1SW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
- Paper: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BRR3JD6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2NKEN9O69YXYL&psc=1
- Drill: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X6Q1JRY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A2CWDL8A6IMGKG&psc=1
- Torch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019CQL60/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
- Miter Box & clamps: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R4BVSB4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
- Table for the miter box/other needs: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000077CQ0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
Planned Build:
https://krusesworkshop.blogspot.com/2014/04/simple-indooroutdoor-rustic-bench-plan.html
(with some changes to the height and width to match my dining table
Planned Finish:
Going to torch the wood and stain before construction, doing a shou sugi ban effect with a gunstock varnish. After I finish drilling/assembling everything I'll touch up again with the varnish for anywhere that needs it.
Enc on
+1
Posts
Ryobi One+ is a pretty sweet system and Home Depot always runs sales on it.
Don't skimp on hearing, eye or respiratory protection.
Right now, I'm looking to make something fairly simple. This is my rough idea for the benches (not to scale).
[edit - old bad plan]
The goal is to have two benches that are really, really heavy and sturdy to hold 500+ pounds of weight. On d&d nights we might have 3-4 people sitting on these chairs.
I know someone who has one side of the kitchen table as a bench seat and it's actually pretty great.
UPDATED - SEE BELOW
Plan is to get my wood cut, then burn it for the Shou Sugi Ban look, brush it down, sand it, and stain it with a gunstock coat, then assemble.
Most important part of DIY is making friends with people who have tools you don't!
Just get a corded circular saw and a speed square . Clamping, or even just firmly holding, the speed square against the edge of your lumber will allow you to to use the square as a fence and get a perfectly straight cut when either cross-cutting or doing a 45 degree miter (I'd use a clamp for the miter cuts). You can google/youtube how to use a speed square as a fence. One thing to keep in mind is that your blade isn't a laser and has an actual width, and which side of the mark you'll be cutting on or you could be 1/16" off. Cut on the non-keeper side and you'll be good.
I also recommend getting a drill/driver combo kit rather than just a no-name cheapo drill. Without spending $texas on Milwaukee, I like the Bosch 12v combo, it's usually about $100, and as low as $80 on sale. The impact driver makes driving screws about a million times easier than the drill.
Edit: also just looking at your plans, I'd go with 4 individual legs rather than a full runner base like you've got there. Framing lumber is cheap but often is warped, twisted and bowed. And since it's not kiln-dried, can further warp, twist, or bow even if you buy what you think is a straight piece. If a full runner base like that bows or warps after construction, you're going to have an unstable base that can rock back and forth. Maybe consider some self-leveling feet. This is your first project so, I expect things won't be perfectly square and even. Also avoid screwing into end-grain (the end of a board), this isn't a strong connection, you'll want to screw into edge or face grain for the best hold. You could pickup a Kreg Mini Pocket hole jig for $10 to allow you to make pocket holes which will be much stronger joints.
a miter saw would be your best bet.
most brands are pretty good. I'd maybe avoid General International and Skil though
But important to note you won't be doing a full cross-cut on a 4x4 with a circular saw (most can only cut about 2.5") so you can use two sistered 2x4s there. Though I doubt you'd need that much support. Even just the six 2x4 in place of the 4x4 support should easily handle 500+lbs.
If I take my time with a really fine-tooth handsaw/hand plane I'm wondering if I can get to the same endgoal. Time isn't so much of a factor over safety for me.
It runs a low current through the blade and upon contact with anything conductive drops a metal block and retracts the blade. I've only seen table saws, but they're awesome.
YouTube has a lot of videos of people putting fingers/hotdogs into them.
https://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology/
If you are that concerned with power tools, then you can always go old school and use a miter box and hand saw. They are cheap too, albeit slow and exhausting. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-14-5-in-Deluxe-Clamping-Miter-Box-with-14-in-Saw-20-600D/100034395
Don't even both looking into the SawStop. Those are $2k+ table saws for professional woodworkers with a full shop.
I've got that miter box, and my one complaint about it is that I wish the saw itself were about an inch or two longer, because otherwise it's too easy to pull back too far and slide the saw out of the guides.
Otherwise, I lock it down to my table with a couple DeWalt trigger clamps (like this) and then use the included pins to lock the wood to the box, and it works fantastically.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Going to think about some non-runner designs for the benches as well. Runners are structurally hella sturdy and the style the wife wants, but I'm definitely not wanting to do that much planing by hand.
Revised plan currently:
One other thing to keep in mind, try to get your lumber from an actual lumber yard if you have any near you. Framing lumber from big box home improvement stores is essentially bottom barrel, and it's going to be very hard to find quality (straight) pieces.
Also, look for consignment/thrift stores/pawn shops since Florida. You can sometimes find good tools cheap.
ALso if going cordless stick to a system so your batteries are universal. I like ryobi + as mentioned. I also agree about the drill and driver combo. drill for holes, driver for uh filling holes with screws.
you want clamps.
maybe a circular saw or jig
yea it definitely needs stabilizing to keep it from going cartoon horse walking on ice
https://krusesworkshop.blogspot.com/2014/04/simple-indooroutdoor-rustic-bench-plan.html
It's the wrong dimensions for our table, but that's easily fixable. I don't really want to use a kreig jig for assembly though. Would metal corner brackets hold the same degree of weight?
Do you have friends you can borrow tools from for your first project?
Re: borrowing tools, while I have many friends who are engineers, I have few who have their own tools outside of their work.
Just get the Kreg Jig Mini, it's like $10-15. Either you're going to end up screwing into end-grain and the joint could potentially fail because this is a weak joint, or you use about 40 brackets to avoid end-grain screws so it looks like an MC Escher painting underneath and on the sides, and still have to worry about weight ratings of each of the brackets that will actually fit up in there. Try to think about where you're actually drilling and screwing, and how you'll avoid end-grain, then you might see the problem and why pocket holes are so commonly used (outside of real woodworking joinery like rabbets, dados etc).
Edit: if you were to use the pocket holes.
I'm in the third year of wood working and I've learned four things.
1. The relationship between tool cost and time is inverted. From my experience, the more expensive the tool the more time it saves.
2. Buy cheap buy twice.
3. Having the store cut things is imprecise at the fifth time you have to explain to the kid at the saw what the difference is between a cross and rip cut you will wish for death.
4. "Jig" is just a name for some kind of brace or shape made up for a particular task.
I respect your fear of powered saws and you're not wrong. They're dangerous and to be respected. However, you should get one and exercise some basic safety protocol and you won't have an issue. I say this as a nurse anesthetist where even a minor injury to my left hand or wrist could end my career.
A great sweet spot brand is Ryobi or Kobalt from any big box store. Not nearly as expensive as Milwaukee or DeWalt but still great. Pick a brand and stick with it once you find what you like so th batteries are all interchangeable.
A Kreg Jig is a great way to skip a lot of basic woodworking techniques, but if you wanna go handheld please check out Tom Carpenter who wrote the book on basic joinery.
If you have room for a cheap, small mitre saw (and if you have room to use a blowtorch, you have room for a mitre saw), get that instead of a hand saw. You'll use it for at least a dozen cuts on that bench design. Each cut will be cleaner, more accurate, and only take literally 3 seconds compared to the rougher cuts with a handsaw. The handsaw will also take at least a couple of minutes to get through two-by material per cut and takes a bit of finesse to keep things smooth and straight. I watch people every week use a handsaw for the first time and their first 4 or 5 cuts are usually a disaster. In contrast, everyone's first mitre saw cut is almost always perfect.
I promise you, a mitre saw is nearly impossible to hurt yourself with. It's the only tool in the shop beyond a power drill that I'm comfortable letting first timer students use without constant supervision. We have a Sawstop table saw and I legitimately feel safer when they're using the mitre saw. Setting one up with a stop block for repeatable cuts will save you tons of time on making matching legs.
A kreg jig isn't 100% necessary, as you can just screw into the endgrain with regular butt joints, but it will make everything a little sturdier and it'll keep the finished product looking much cleaner. With careful layout and filling pocket holes you'll never be able to see how it's fastened together if you use a kreg jig. The cheap $20 version is fine if you're not doing tons of furniture builds, and it's great for attaching stretchers on benches/tables in place without much hassle. It will require a special clamp or two, but those are super handy in general, so that's not a big deal.
For the drill, I'm generally pretty gun-shy about these cheap no-name ones on Amazon. We've used a few in our shop and they always die on us. The chucks break, the triggers break, the motor burns out, etc. And when the batteries shit the bed, you can't get them locally. Probably not a huge deal if you're just going to do this once or twice, but if you wanted to make this a hobby, I'd urge you to subscribe to the "buy once, cry once" mindset and consider picking up a big box brand like Ryobi (Home Depot) or Kobalt (Lowe's). Both brands tend to have an entry level 18v drill with a battery in the $50-$70 range. And yeah, then you can buy other tools from the same brand and use the same batteries.
I'd also recommend building and then burning/finishing. With burning especially, pieces may warp enough to fuck up your assembly after the burning. You run less of a risk of fit issues if it's already assembled before you burn. Also you're bound to nick and scratch things as you assemble pieces and that will fuck up your stain/shou sugi ban finish (not to mention if you realize during assembly that you mis-drilled a screw hole and have to drill another one and fill the mistake, etc). The charring and finish will also negatively impact the glue-up (unless you absolutely need to disassemble it, I strongly recommend combining glue with whichever screw construction you use for better long term stability).
In general your process when building furniture should always be: measure, cut, sand, assemble, sand some more, finish.
Good choice for the sander. A 5" random orbit is the best workhorse you could opt for. Don't go crazy with grits, though. 80 is only really necessary if you need to really grind down some wood. I start at 120, then move to 150-160, then 180-200. Maybe go to 240 if you want to get really fancy, but I almost never do unless I'm only finishing a project with a coat of Danish oil or some other fairly light finish. If you're putting a varnish or lacquer on, 180-200 is plenty fine.
WEAR A DUST MASK WHEN YOU SAND. Seriously. It's easy to say "eh, I'm outside, it's fine", but don't. Wear a mask. The cheap paper ones are fine if it's an occasional thing.
As someone else said, even for two-by construction lumber, go to a real lumber yard. It'll be straighter and cheaper than bigbox stores. Make sure you eyeball the length of every board to make sure you get moderately straight ones. A little warping is fine, but watch out for any really nasty ones.
And if you're anywhere near North Jersey, you're more than welcome to borrow tools.
They're definitely not shit, my dude. Virtually every piece of decent furniture in a Crate and Barrel or a West Elm is built with pocket hole screw joinery. They're fantastic for the time and skill required, and generally stronger than dowel joinery. People shit on it because screws=not "real" woodworking, but that's just pointless snobbery. It's not "fine woodworking", but it doesn't mean it's not the ideal type of joinery for lots of applications.
Obviously dowels or dominos or mortise and tenon's look better, but we're talking about the underside of a bench being built by a first time woodworker here. The trade-off is 110% sensible.
I have always wanted to build nice stuff. I have built a bunch of work benches and stuff like that but more practical than pretty.
Though I did make a barn door that is on a slider in our bedroom.
Generally half the cost, break in is done for you, and you can generally test things in the store.
Thinking, my miter/slide chopsaw and circular are both pawn specials that have cut miles of plastic and wood with just a couple new blades and a set of brushes or two.
As long as you don't use it wrong, that is. I've scared the _heck_ out of myself with a miter saw when trying to make cuts in bits of wood that were not clamped down quite properly because they were too short, and I reckoned "ah, I can just hold it in place with my hand, it'll be fine".
I haven't had finger-close-to-the-blade problems, I know better than that, at least, but I have had blade-catches-the-wood-and-flings-it-away problems, which are in some ways more frightening.
(but that said, I've also had my 8/10-year-old kids use the miter saw to help when we were cutting down 2x4s and fence boards, because in those cases the wood was supported and clamped properly and in that case it's fine)
Ceres, this can be closed.