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an american politics/democratic primaries thread for the naughty children of d&d

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Posts

  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    So who gets to feel clever as shit on the debate stage when they say “Ok Bloomer”

    That’s definitely Pete right

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  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    one of the things that i'm absolutely furious at the General Democratic Establishment about is that they don't do fucking SHIT for downticket stuff they just let it go to the wolves

    that's why you lost the senate and the house last time you fucking morons!

    i don't understand how "finding a strong candidate to run against mitch mcconnell" isn't like, their #1 priority

    Is Amy McGrath not a strong candidate?

    i'll admit i haven't looked too deeply into her but i remember folks i know from kentucky being pretty frustrated with her as the pick

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Whippy wrote: »
    the guy wants to give you free healthcare and education but i guess thinking "they had nice trains" is a totally reasonable reason to vote for the stop and frisk mayor instead

    I mean, I'm probably voting for Pete in NC if he gets that far, and if Bernie's the winner I'll pull the lever for him in the general with no qualms. But he's not my pick and this is part of why. I think it's a pattern echoed today in his belief that somehow a revolutionary tide of blue votes will carry us all into a new era with him at the helm. It's no more realistic than going to the soviet union and thinking anybody there would say a mean word about the place while you're around.

    I'm currently at
    Pete
    Warren
    Biden
    Bernie
    whoever

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Well, good thing America has never had incredibly dangerous, death filled public works projects that politicians hype up as historical achievements all the time.

    l0b9izjdqe37.jpg
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    Gooooood thing.

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  • WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    *dying of anaphylaxis because i can't afford a 600$ epipen* at leaassst...he didn't like their trainssssssssssssshurkblegh

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  • UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    I have bad news about how many people died building American rail lines

    was it anything like Canada's rail lines, where the majority of the labourers (and casualties) were poorly paid Chinese immigrants?

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Isn't making peace and trying to find common ground and things that we share in common a good idea? Instead of just painting them as an alien enemy that cannot be understood or reasoned with? I mean I just read an article about this and Russians sank folk songs with him in a sauna and he and his other travelers sang "this land is your land" with them and I'd much rather have stories like that than stories about how we almost nuked each other into oblivion.

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    I have bad news about how many people died building American rail lines

    was it anything like Canada's rail lines, where the majority of the labourers (and casualties) were poorly paid Chinese immigrants?
    Oh, 1000000%

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  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    edited February 2020
    I don’t know that many of the people I interact with are exactly confident in a blue wave but rather grasping at our last strands of hope here.

    Gustav on
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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    user wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Whippy wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    no pollyanna Soviet apologists get to be president here.

    hey spool i read your shit all the time and routinely think you're an absolute ghoul of a person but can you tell me what the fuck this means

    Hey Whippy Bernie traveled to the USSR and his opinions of the soviet mass transit system were quite credulous. It was a thing, allowing US folks to travel there and trying to get them to be propaganda vectors, and that's what he did.

    There's an interview from Bernie Sanders (back when he went as Bernard) in 1981 with Phil Donahue and I think one notable thing it contains is that Bernie outright calls the Soviet Union authoritarian, and he tells Phil Donahue that as a socialist he values both the power of dissent and civil liberties.

    I think maybe you're putting your own bias into why he went to the Soviet Union? I mean we all do; I tend to be a bit more charitable because I'm sympathetic about it. I think he went because on the one hand at the time, the propaganda surrounding the USSR was very dehumanizing, and one thing a lot of intellectual leftists would do during the time is go -- just to see for themselves that people were people.

    fair point, that's worth reading.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Whippy wrote: »
    you know the ussr doesn't exist anymore right

    yes, this was quite some time ago.

    You know I'm old enough to remember when they did, right?

    Ok, X’er

    spool32
  • useruser Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    user wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Whippy wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    no pollyanna Soviet apologists get to be president here.

    hey spool i read your shit all the time and routinely think you're an absolute ghoul of a person but can you tell me what the fuck this means

    Hey Whippy Bernie traveled to the USSR and his opinions of the soviet mass transit system were quite credulous. It was a thing, allowing US folks to travel there and trying to get them to be propaganda vectors, and that's what he did.

    There's an interview from Bernie Sanders (back when he went as Bernard) in 1981 with Phil Donahue and I think one notable thing it contains is that Bernie outright calls the Soviet Union authoritarian, and he tells Phil Donahue that as a socialist he values both the power of dissent and civil liberties.

    I think maybe you're putting your own bias into why he went to the Soviet Union? I mean we all do; I tend to be a bit more charitable because I'm sympathetic about it. I think he went because on the one hand at the time, the propaganda surrounding the USSR was very dehumanizing, and one thing a lot of intellectual leftists would do during the time is go -- just to see for themselves that people were people.

    fair point, that's worth reading.

    It's from the Today Show and available on YouTube.

    https://youtu.be/OraxqbUjpHw

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Whippy wrote: »
    the guy wants to give you free healthcare and education but i guess thinking "they had nice trains" is a totally reasonable reason to vote for the stop and frisk mayor instead

    I mean, I'm probably voting for Pete in NC if he gets that far, and if Bernie's the winner I'll pull the lever for him in the general with no qualms. But he's not my pick and this is part of why. I think it's a pattern echoed today in his belief that somehow a revolutionary tide of blue votes will carry us all into a new era with him at the helm. It's no more realistic than going to the soviet union and thinking anybody there would say a mean word about the place while you're around.

    I'm currently at
    Pete
    Warren
    Biden
    Bernie
    whoever

    I've seen more than one person put Warren higher on their list than Bernie, but with Biden somehow in between and I am baffled. I mean I'm also baffled that people think Pete is at all likeable as a candidate or a human being

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  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    you know, this memorial to the people who died constructing Hoover Dam is reminiscent of some socialist monuments I've seen

    1024px-HansenHooverMemorial.jpg

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  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    I think you'll find that the Trans-Continental Railroad and the Hoover Dam were built in History Times and therefore we don't have to be ashamed of them anymore

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Whippy wrote: »
    the guy wants to give you free healthcare and education but i guess thinking "they had nice trains" is a totally reasonable reason to vote for the stop and frisk mayor instead

    I mean, I'm probably voting for Pete in NC if he gets that far, and if Bernie's the winner I'll pull the lever for him in the general with no qualms. But he's not my pick and this is part of why. I think it's a pattern echoed today in his belief that somehow a revolutionary tide of blue votes will carry us all into a new era with him at the helm. It's no more realistic than going to the soviet union and thinking anybody there would say a mean word about the place while you're around.

    I'm currently at
    Pete
    Warren
    Biden
    Bernie
    whoever

    I've seen more than one person put Warren higher on their list than Bernie, but with Biden somehow in between and I am baffled. I mean I'm also baffled that people think Pete is at all likeable as a candidate or a human being

    I could see viewing Sanders as either unelectable or a liability in the election.
    Or maybe on policy grounds if you think that the "Sanders says socialism" thing matters a lot there.

    I don't agree with it but I can see reasons for it.

    spool32
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Honestly, supporting Pete or Biden is just a roundabout way of saying you don't want anything to change from where America was directly before Trump

    (And it was not very good)

    Neither of them have presented any policies that would do anything beyond trying to undo some of what Trump has done and bring back GOOD OLE CIVILITY AND COMPROMISE despite the past 2 decades showing that that shit doesn't work anymore and the only way forward is to aggressively push for change and rally the overwhelming majority of Americans who aren't rich or white or bigots to make a future that will do more than offer a rainbow flag pin on a cop's vest as he gut punches a queer protester for getting pissed that Amazon has taken over their pride parade

    CYpGAPn.png
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    Honestly, supporting Pete or Biden is just a roundabout way of saying you don't want anything to change from where America was directly before Trump

    (And it was not very good)

    Neither of them have presented any policies that would do anything beyond trying to undo some of what Trump has done and bring back GOOD OLE CIVILITY AND COMPROMISE despite the past 2 decades showing that that shit doesn't work anymore and the only way forward is to aggressively push for change and rally the overwhelming majority of Americans who aren't rich or white or bigots to make a future that will do more than offer a rainbow flag pin on a cop's vest as he gut punches a queer protester for getting pissed that Amazon has taken over their pride parade

    It could also just be an electability argument. Which seems to be the biggest things Democratic primary voters are thinking about.

    It's basically always been the main case for Biden after all. And Klobuchar too honestly.

    spool32
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Electability is complete nonsense

    It doesn't exist

    The most electable candidate is the one people like the most

    That's it

    The idea that a fuckin mysterious ethereal quality means only certain people (almost always white men, occasionally women, who don't want to rock the boat even a little) can be considered for office is clown shoes

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  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    My opinion of Bernie went way, way down when I found out he still supports the senate filibuster.

    Like, you're supposed to be the champion of people's democracy or whatever, the big outsider who's not part of the entrenched power system, but also you're totally for hanging onto your special undemocratic veto in what's already the least democratic branch of the government?

    But no the real traitor of the people is the woman who wants to enact single payer healthcare in a two step process instead of a single step.

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  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    Honestly, supporting Pete or Biden is just a roundabout way of saying you don't want anything to change from where America was directly before Trump

    (And it was not very good)

    Neither of them have presented any policies that would do anything beyond trying to undo some of what Trump has done and bring back GOOD OLE CIVILITY AND COMPROMISE despite the past 2 decades showing that that shit doesn't work anymore and the only way forward is to aggressively push for change and rally the overwhelming majority of Americans who aren't rich or white or bigots to make a future that will do more than offer a rainbow flag pin on a cop's vest as he gut punches a queer protester for getting pissed that Amazon has taken over their pride parade

    frankly even if i accept the premise that biden or buttigieg want to undo some of what trump's done, i have no confidence in their ability to follow through on that desire

    if i'm being honest i'm pretty worried that we're just fucked and there's no fixing things. but if there is a way to make things better it's going to require someone who's ready to fight tooth and nail, not someone who wants unity and compromise with fascists, and i just do not believe that pete or joe have that in them

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  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    Electability is complete nonsense

    It doesn't exist

    The most electable candidate is the one people like the most

    That's it

    The idea that a fuckin mysterious ethereal quality means only certain people (almost always white men, occasionally women, who don't want to rock the boat even a little) can be considered for office is clown shoes

    it's like when people think that you spend your political capital on a bill or whatever and now you're out of credits to spend to get people to vote for anything else you do

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    Electability is complete nonsense

    It doesn't exist

    The most electable candidate is the one people like the most

    That's it

    The idea that a fuckin mysterious ethereal quality means only certain people (almost always white men, occasionally women, who don't want to rock the boat even a little) can be considered for office is clown shoes

    I mean, sure. But it's still how a lot of people are making their decision as far as we know.

    They are looking at the candidates and thinking "Who will the people who's votes we need to win in November vote for?".

    shryke on
  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Electability feels like another word for "how mean will the media be to me" and they're already doing their best to shit on Sanders despite winning Iowa and NH so I'm not concerned he will have any problems beating Trump.

    Also the debate questions should definitely just be basic questions about how the government works.

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Aioua wrote: »
    My opinion of Bernie went way, way down when I found out he still supports the senate filibuster.

    Like, you're supposed to be the champion of people's democracy or whatever, the big outsider who's not part of the entrenched power system, but also you're totally for hanging onto your special undemocratic veto in what's already the least democratic branch of the government?

    But no the real traitor of the people is the woman who wants to enact single payer healthcare in a two step process instead of a single step.

    This is why I am more for Warren than Sanders (though Pete is still my #1) - if we are to take Bernie at his words, he will user in a blue wave revolution that will somehow bypass the supermajority issue for cloture votes that have strangled all prior efforts? Like, getting 60-61 solid yes votes is basically impossible now. The only way to affect change outside of reconciliation and executive orders, which are ephemeral and prone to failure when the presidency changes hands, is by murdering the filibuster or forcing it to happen and halting all senate activity until it is resolved.

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Yeah if literally anything is getting undone from Trump it would require A) Dem House and Senate and B) a willingness to fuckin fight for it.

    Not a "oh, we will cross the aisle and work together" mealy mouth promise

    That shit doesn't work

    The other side has been actively destroying every part of the government for over a decade and has no interest in anything other than their own power

    You gotta dig in and pick fights and even then shits gonna get messy. The courts are filled with unqualified, bigoted and corrupt judges right now. That ain't something that's gonna get fixed with well wishes and hope.

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  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    mitch mcconnell is the devil and the democrats think the way to pwn him is to give him nicknames

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I think you have to be willing to push for killing the filibuster and packing the court(s) to be serious about any kind of change. Also DC statehood. PR statehood too but that's a bit messier since it's not clear if they want it.

    RanlinBucketman
  • UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    at this point I consider any Democratic candidate who claims they plan to "find common ground"/"work with their republican colleagues"/"find non-partisan solutions" to be either a dangerous idiot, or a self-serving liar.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    mitch mcconnell is the devil and the democrats think the way to pwn him is to give him nicknames

    Moscow Mitch is one of the few things that seemed to ever actually get under his skin.

  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    mitch mcconnell is the devil and the democrats think the way to pwn him is to give him nicknames

    Moscow Mitch is one of the few things that seemed to ever actually get under his skin.

    ladies and gentlemen i rest my case

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    mitch mcconnell is the devil and the democrats think the way to pwn him is to give him nicknames

    Moscow Mitch is one of the few things that seemed to ever actually get under his skin.
    Who cares, is the thing

    He is still being the evil nightmare he always has been

    Him going OH NO THEY CALLED ME A NAME while okaying the latest atrocity doesn't mean shit

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  • XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    so was Bloomberg asked to steal the nomination from Bernie and Warren

    that's seems like the general idea here

    Xehalus on
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  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    edited February 2020
    mitch mcconnel shouldn't be grumpy about being called a name

    he should be legitimately and actually afraid of leaving his home

    he has a lot of money and power so that's a tall order but until that's where we're at with the guy i'm not impressed by "getting under his skin"

    Speed Racer on
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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Xehalus wrote: »
    so was Bloomberg asked to steal the nomination from Bernie and Warren

    that's seems like the general idea here
    No, he is just a rich oligarch and saw how well Trump was able to run under the narrative of a business genius so he is using a small chunk of his personal fortune to try to buy the presidency

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    mitch mcconnell is the devil and the democrats think the way to pwn him is to give him nicknames

    Moscow Mitch is one of the few things that seemed to ever actually get under his skin.
    Who cares, is the thing

    He is still being the evil nightmare he always has been

    Him going OH NO THEY CALLED ME A NAME while okaying the latest atrocity doesn't mean shit

    "This is somewhat vexing, these spiteful names they've given me, " Mitch McConnell mutters to himself as he fast-tracks another entirely-unqualified-except-for-hating-outgroups nominee to a lifetime appointment as a federal judge, helping to enshrine neo-conservative "values" into our judicial system for decades to come regardless of what happens in the legislature.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Speaking of backing off on M4A! Here's AOC conceding that M4A might not happen! Oops! Looks like somebody understands that insipid platitudes about "rallying the people" and "fighting for it" don't actually pass legislation. I wonder if she'll get excoriated now for trying to tell the truth.

    https://www.axios.com/aoc-medicare-for-all-public-option-bernie-sanders-6f94493e-96d3-4329-8c29-d17891d43fc9.html
    A president can’t wave a magic wand and pass any legislation they want,” Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) told HuffPost this week

    Ocasio-Cortez ― one of the most outspoken advocates for Medicare for All ― said she thought voters understood there was an “inherent check” on the president’s ability to actually change things like our health care system. And she argued that the realities of governing were actually an argument for someone like Sanders, as he’d be able to push Democrats and resulting changes further left.

    But Ocasio-Cortez is also realistic about how far even a President Sanders could actually move Congress.

    “The worst-case scenario? We compromise deeply and we end up getting a public option. Is that a nightmare? I don’t think so,” she said.

    Ocasio-Cortez stressed that just getting a public option for health care wasn’t the left’s ultimate goal. But she also said she wasn’t here to railroad other members with differing viewpoints on health care ― she just thinks it helps to have a president who has a more ambitious platform than Congress so that Democrats could stretch what’s possible.

    Viktor WaltersMonwyn
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    mitch mcconnell is the devil and the democrats think the way to pwn him is to give him nicknames

    Moscow Mitch is one of the few things that seemed to ever actually get under his skin.
    Who cares, is the thing

    He is still being the evil nightmare he always has been

    Him going OH NO THEY CALLED ME A NAME while okaying the latest atrocity doesn't mean shit

    His usual mo would be to say nothing and keep destroying US democracy, so the fact that he even bothered to respond at all suggests it actually bothered him in some way or he thinks it hurts his re-election chances or something like that. Clearly not enough on it's own since they need to actually beat him in the election in November (fingers crossed there), but it's interesting that he seemed to care at all. McConnell's gameplay is always to say bland standard nothing while slow but surely ramming the establishment conservative agenda through without concern for appearances or the future of the entire US system of government or literally anything but political power.

    shryke on
    RanlinMatev
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    mitch mcconnel shouldn't be grumpy about being called a name

    he should be legitimately and actually afraid of leaving his home

    he has a lot of money and power so that's a tall order but until that's where we're at with the guy i'm not impressed by "getting under his skin"
    Its the idea that shit like Nancy Pelosi clapping weird or tearing up the state of the union is a huge GOTCHA moment when

    No Republican actually gives a shit

    Especially when Pelosi is doing stuff like passing military spending increases and attempting to quiet down the liberal wing of her own party

    Gestures are pointless in 2020, do shit that matters

    CYpGAPn.png
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  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    Yeah if literally anything is getting undone from Trump it would require A) Dem House and Senate and B) a willingness to fuckin fight for it.

    Not a "oh, we will cross the aisle and work together" mealy mouth promise

    That shit doesn't work

    The other side has been actively destroying every part of the government for over a decade and has no interest in anything other than their own power

    You gotta dig in and pick fights and even then shits gonna get messy. The courts are filled with unqualified, bigoted and corrupt judges right now. That ain't something that's gonna get fixed with well wishes and hope.

    This is insipid bullshit. What does this mean in context? Is Bernie going to lecture people into doing what he wants? What will he do when that inevitably fails?

This discussion has been closed.