If you don't feel that modern game developers are doing a particular group of people justice regarding representation (and considering how few games that have gay male protagonists have been mentioned in this thread so far you are probably on to something), the good news is that it has never been easier to learn how to make your own game. You won't have some publisher demanding you make changes to appeal to that 95%, you won't have to settle for limiting your LGBT inclusion to lesbians (the "safe gay" choice when it comes to media), you can make a game where a gay man is the protagonist and no one can stop you.
FYI "If gay people want gay characters they should learn to make their own games" is INCREDIBLY offensive.
When he says "the good news is that it has never been easier to learn how to make your own game," I think there's an implied bad news that there's little other productive recourse. I mean, when the options are "get started on learning how to make your own game" and "raise enough objections and apply enough pressure online until someone makes a game for me," the first seems more healthy. By contrast, what else would you have others say? "Yeah, it sucks and it's too bad that we can't really do anything about it?" Or say nothing at all, to avoid giving offense when none was intended?
It's not a stance advocating that other devs shouldn't make more games to represent LGBT, rather it's recognizing an unfortunate situation and saying that if you want to see change, it's easier than ever to enact it, and in doing so to make sure it's done right.
I would hope that if a developer was looking to start making a game with gay protagonists, actual gay people would be consulted at some point anyway, so getting a gay person involved in game creation who might not otherwise have been is an ideal result regardless.
I mean, I refused to look at this thread because it's *clearly huge bullshit* but if I had to pretend to care abut PA's loser opinion this would be the post.
Like, to be super clear and double post on this garbage thread: This whole thing is about some magical queer that is not in any way meaningful.
The Gay, male protagonists are already being made by creators you are dismissing as "playersexual" because it's a visual novel etc. etc. already exists.
You just want some weird, acceptable to straight losers version of being gay.
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Well I'm glad we got our opinions cleared up for us, thanks!
Well I'm glad we got our opinions cleared up for us, thanks!
Dude last time I pretended to care about your opinion you asked for transfolk's opinion on CP2077 stuff and then threw a pissy fit because said trans people disagred with you.
Like if you wanna be fucking harsh with me about overly simplifying shit maybe don't be the dude who fucking demonstrably does not care about queer people the second they aren't weaponizable to your view on Video Games.
Well I'm glad we got our opinions cleared up for us, thanks!
Dude last time I pretended to care about your opinion you asked for transfolk's opinion on CP2077 stuff and then threw a pissy fit because said trans people disagred with you.
Like if you wanna be fucking harsh with me about overly simplifying shit maybe don't be the dude who fucking demonstrably does not care about queer people the second they aren't weaponizable to your view on Video Games.
Well I'm glad we got our opinions cleared up for us, thanks!
Dude last time I pretended to care about your opinion you asked for transfolk's opinion on CP2077 stuff and then threw a pissy fit because said trans people disagred with you.
Like if you wanna be fucking harsh with me about overly simplifying shit maybe don't be the dude who fucking demonstrably does not care about queer people the second they aren't weaponizable to your view on Video Games.
Cool. 👋
No buddy, you fucking showing up to shame angry queer people whenever they come up in topic is not cool.
It's actually supremely goosey.
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Well I'm glad we got our opinions cleared up for us, thanks!
Dude last time I pretended to care about your opinion you asked for transfolk's opinion on CP2077 stuff and then threw a pissy fit because said trans people disagred with you.
Like if you wanna be fucking harsh with me about overly simplifying shit maybe don't be the dude who fucking demonstrably does not care about queer people the second they aren't weaponizable to your view on Video Games.
Cool. 👋
No buddy, you fucking showing up to shame angry queer people whenever they come up in topic is not cool.
It's actually supremely goosey.
Okay.
I must have made an demonstrably relevant post like that somewhere here...
Well I'm glad we got our opinions cleared up for us, thanks!
Dude last time I pretended to care about your opinion you asked for transfolk's opinion on CP2077 stuff and then threw a pissy fit because said trans people disagred with you.
Like if you wanna be fucking harsh with me about overly simplifying shit maybe don't be the dude who fucking demonstrably does not care about queer people the second they aren't weaponizable to your view on Video Games.
Cool. 👋
No buddy, you fucking showing up to shame angry queer people whenever they come up in topic is not cool.
It's actually supremely goosey.
Okay.
I must have made an demonstrably relevant post like that somewhere here...
Dude I am not going through the entire CP2020 thread to drag out the exact moment it was super clear you were here for trans people (but only if they supported your view on the game).
Just fucking don't be trash.
Like am I supposed to dress that up in "don't be a goose?" When months after this clown should've being humiliated for talking on queer issues here they are trying to shame me for a blunt opinion? At what point does continually shiting on queer people get mod attention? I'm asking sincerely.
So anyway, about gay male protagonists in non-romantic roles in games. I agree that it is a gap worth filling. I will keep it in mind for my future projects.
So anyway, about gay male protagonists in non-romantic roles in games.
Yeah, stop looking for approval from an industry that has zero reason to provide said protagnists and instead support your peers and queers that are actually here for you.
Well I'm glad we got our opinions cleared up for us, thanks!
Dude last time I pretended to care about your opinion you asked for transfolk's opinion on CP2077 stuff and then threw a pissy fit because said trans people disagred with you.
Like if you wanna be fucking harsh with me about overly simplifying shit maybe don't be the dude who fucking demonstrably does not care about queer people the second they aren't weaponizable to your view on Video Games.
Cool. 👋
No buddy, you fucking showing up to shame angry queer people whenever they come up in topic is not cool.
It's actually supremely goosey.
Okay.
I must have made an demonstrably relevant post like that somewhere here...
Dude I am not going through the entire CP2020 thread to drag out the exact moment it was super clear you were here for trans people (but only if they supported your view on the game).
Just fucking don't be trash.
Like am I supposed to dress that up in "don't be a goose?" When months after this clown should've being humiliated for talking on queer issues here they are trying to shame me for a blunt opinion? At what point does continually shiting on queer people get mod attention? I'm asking sincerely.
If I was continually shitting on you you wouldn't have to go dig up something I said a year ago.
But you've got your thing and I already know what will result (being a "straight loser") so I'm ending it now and moving on.
jungleroomx on
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
"We're not actually sure if most of these characters are even straight" doing some heavy lifting in the industry
Weirdly it turns out that queers only exist when it's up to player choice and a selling point or if it's not a triple A game and falling under the weird "playersexual" nonense banner the OP put forwards.
Almost like the idea of PC canon sexuality should be actively stomped into the dirt in it's current form.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
lesbians are a bit better off though the only two I can think of are life is strange: before the storm and the last of us left behind
Lesbians are generally the least scary to phob
*traditionally effeminate at least
Dude if I'm gonna get in trouble for yelling atcha you have to know I'm willing to yell atcha for doing the "lesbians are just the straight queers" routine.
lesbians are a bit better off though the only two I can think of are life is strange: before the storm and the last of us left behind
Lesbians are generally the least scary to phob
bisexual people seem to be the best represented, particularly bisexual women. bi women are not too surprising to me as we're well fetishized by straight men, but I am surprised to find I can count more bi dude protagonists than lesbians
+1
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
lesbians are a bit better off though the only two I can think of are life is strange: before the storm and the last of us left behind
Lesbians are generally the least scary to phob
*traditionally effeminate at least
Dude if I'm gonna get in trouble for yelling atcha you have to know I'm willing to yell atcha for doing the "lesbians are just the straight queers" routine.
As a straight guy I'm saying that other straight/phobic people are p okay with lesbians as long as they look a certain way. This isn't a routine, it's why they were the first to be acceptable to be seen on screen, because they're the easiest for Cishet dudes to accept.
It's a condemnation on the reason. You're just looking to be confrontational now.
lesbians are a bit better off though the only two I can think of are life is strange: before the storm and the last of us left behind
Lesbians are generally the least scary to phob
*traditionally effeminate at least
Dude if I'm gonna get in trouble for yelling atcha you have to know I'm willing to yell atcha for doing the "lesbians are just the straight queers" routine.
As a straight guy I'm saying that other straight/phobic people are p okay with lesbians as long as they look a certain way. This isn't a routine, it's why they were the first to be acceptable to be seen on screen, because they're the easiest for Cishet dudes to accept.
It's a condemnation on the reason. You're just looking to be confrontational now.
Yes I'm aware your view and posts are as a straight cis dude.
The triple-A space will be a much harder nut to crack, sure.
So why are you cracking it?
You could spend millions of literal, actual cash moneys on proving you're a real demographic worth respect on a human level.
Or you could just accept that triple A is for straight, cis people and ignore that clearly worthless domain.
I'm a game developer. I'm going to make games anyway, may as well help people along the way.
I mean, and lets be real, if you're saying that independent of a huge studio. Congrats, you are part of the queer games that will be labelled "playersexual" or some fucking nonsense because your game wasn't big budget enough to be 'real gays'.
And that's not an insult on you, it's just pointing out the like, weirdly fucking repressed view of the OP where only some gay games are 'real' and the others are just poor/indy devs that don't count as gay because of course poor/indy devs are queer.
I can't control EA or Blizzard. I can just do my part to provide alternatives.
Yeah, congats on being "playersexual" by this absurd threads gay assimilation ideals.
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
edited February 2020
My assumption, which could be wrong, is that a majority of video game writers are straight and so write characters from that perspective. As a straight male, and as a budding game developer and writer, I haven't felt comfortable writing from a gay perspective because I'm rather ignorant of that perspective since I don't have first hand experience. I actually avoid writing romance, even straight romance, for that very reason. That said, I don't want my future games to be straight white male protags; my fav video game character is actually Samus from Metroid and have an affinity for female protagonists. Overall though I think having a gay writer would have a much better perspective from personal life experience, and it isn't that I want to avoid writing gay characters. I suppose I'm just conflicted as I don't want to write a gay character that comes across inauthentic?
I can't control EA or Blizzard. I can just do my part to provide alternatives.
Yeah, congats on being "playersexual" by this absurd threads gay assimilation ideals.
Thanks! Maybe my artist can whip that into the next merch shirt.
Yeah, that last post was definitely not meant to be a rag on you so much as the absurd "triple A better validate my queerness" stance the OP took on gay rep in games.
Definitely fuck yeah for any queer rep in indy games or cool merch shirts.
My assumption, which could be wrong, is that a majority of video game writers are straight and so write characters from that perspective. As a straight male, and as a budding game developer and writer, I haven't felt comfortable writing from a gay perspective because I'm rather ignorant of that perspective since I don't have first hand experience. I actually avoid writing romance, even straight romance, for that very reason. That said, I don't want my future games to be straight white male protags; my fav video game character is actually Samus from Metroid and have an affinity for female protagonists. Overall though I think having a gay writer would have a much better perspective from personal life experience, and it isn't that I want to avoid writing gay characters. I suppose I'm just conflicted as I don't want to write a gay character that comes across inauthentic?
The short version is that "write what you know" means "do field research and talk to people you want to represent" and not "write only about yourself".
+5
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
My assumption, which could be wrong, is that a majority of video game writers are straight and so write characters from that perspective. As a straight male, and as a budding game developer and writer, I haven't felt comfortable writing from a gay perspective because I'm rather ignorant of that perspective since I don't have first hand experience. I actually avoid writing romance, even straight romance, for that very reason. That said, I don't want my future games to be straight white male protags; my fav video game character is actually Samus from Metroid and have an affinity for female protagonists. Overall though I think having a gay writer would have a much better perspective from personal life experience, and it isn't that I want to avoid writing gay characters. I suppose I'm just conflicted as I don't want to write a gay character that comes across inauthentic?
The short version is that "write what you know" means "do field research and talk to people you want to represent" and not "write only about yourself".
That's very true; I really want to avoid stereotypes. It does really come down to research and understanding
My assumption, which could be wrong, is that a majority of video game writers are straight and so write characters from that perspective. As a straight male, and as a budding game developer and writer, I haven't felt comfortable writing from a gay perspective because I'm rather ignorant of that perspective since I don't have first hand experience. I actually avoid writing romance, even straight romance, for that very reason. That said, I don't want my future games to be straight white male protags; my fav video game character is actually Samus from Metroid and have an affinity for female protagonists. Overall though I think having a gay writer would have a much better perspective from personal life experience, and it isn't that I want to avoid writing gay characters. I suppose I'm just conflicted as I don't want to write a gay character that comes across inauthentic?
The short version is that "write what you know" means "do field research and talk to people you want to represent" and not "write only about yourself".
That's very true; I really want to avoid stereotypes. It does really come down to research and understanding
My assumption, which could be wrong, is that a majority of video game writers are straight and so write characters from that perspective. As a straight male, and as a budding game developer and writer, I haven't felt comfortable writing from a gay perspective because I'm rather ignorant of that perspective since I don't have first hand experience. I actually avoid writing romance, even straight romance, for that very reason. That said, I don't want my future games to be straight white male protags; my fav video game character is actually Samus from Metroid and have an affinity for female protagonists. Overall though I think having a gay writer would have a much better perspective from personal life experience, and it isn't that I want to avoid writing gay characters. I suppose I'm just conflicted as I don't want to write a gay character that comes across inauthentic?
The short version is that "write what you know" means "do field research and talk to people you want to represent" and not "write only about yourself".
That's very true; I really want to avoid stereotypes. It does really come down to research and understanding
Or just hire and emphasize queer people.
This doesn't help as much as you'd think. Aside from the biggest AAA games, games are only going to have a writer. Maaaybe two at a stretch. So the majority of the writing is gone to be done by straight people regardless of how well represented queer people are. So if you want big chunk of more non-shit representation, you need that larger group to understand how to write not shit representation. The same applies for different types of queer people, as being gay doesn't magically give you understanding about trans people.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Posts
I mean, I refused to look at this thread because it's *clearly huge bullshit* but if I had to pretend to care abut PA's loser opinion this would be the post.
The Gay, male protagonists are already being made by creators you are dismissing as "playersexual" because it's a visual novel etc. etc. already exists.
You just want some weird, acceptable to straight losers version of being gay.
Dude last time I pretended to care about your opinion you asked for transfolk's opinion on CP2077 stuff and then threw a pissy fit because said trans people disagred with you.
Like if you wanna be fucking harsh with me about overly simplifying shit maybe don't be the dude who fucking demonstrably does not care about queer people the second they aren't weaponizable to your view on Video Games.
Cool. 👋
No buddy, you fucking showing up to shame angry queer people whenever they come up in topic is not cool.
It's actually supremely goosey.
Okay.
I must have made an demonstrably relevant post like that somewhere here...
Dude I am not going through the entire CP2020 thread to drag out the exact moment it was super clear you were here for trans people (but only if they supported your view on the game).
Just fucking don't be trash.
Like am I supposed to dress that up in "don't be a goose?" When months after this clown should've being humiliated for talking on queer issues here they are trying to shame me for a blunt opinion? At what point does continually shiting on queer people get mod attention? I'm asking sincerely.
Yeah, stop looking for approval from an industry that has zero reason to provide said protagnists and instead support your peers and queers that are actually here for you.
EDIT: And for a link on Roomx's bullshit: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/41341236/#Comment_41341236
Christ I shouldn't have to dig up stuff on a dude acting shite.
If I was continually shitting on you you wouldn't have to go dig up something I said a year ago.
But you've got your thing and I already know what will result (being a "straight loser") so I'm ending it now and moving on.
It's not nothing that preference is just not relevant to a lot of stories, but there are plenty of explicitly preferenced characters anyway.
Lesbians are generally the least scary to phobic folks, followed by cartoonishly effeminate gay men who are not generally protagonists.
"Which industry?" I ask as I scroll through a twitter feed full of very enthusiastic romantic fanfiction connoisseurs.
Almost like the idea of PC canon sexuality should be actively stomped into the dirt in it's current form.
*traditionally effeminate at least
Theres still a lot of thorny areas with that, I think
Dude if I'm gonna get in trouble for yelling atcha you have to know I'm willing to yell atcha for doing the "lesbians are just the straight queers" routine.
bisexual people seem to be the best represented, particularly bisexual women. bi women are not too surprising to me as we're well fetishized by straight men, but I am surprised to find I can count more bi dude protagonists than lesbians
As a straight guy I'm saying that other straight/phobic people are p okay with lesbians as long as they look a certain way. This isn't a routine, it's why they were the first to be acceptable to be seen on screen, because they're the easiest for Cishet dudes to accept.
It's a condemnation on the reason. You're just looking to be confrontational now.
So why are you cracking it?
You could spend millions of literal, actual cash moneys on proving you're a real demographic worth respect on a human level.
Or you could just accept that triple A is for straight, cis people and ignore that clearly worthless domain.
Bigotry is complex and weird.
Yes I'm aware your view and posts are as a straight cis dude.
It was abundantly clear.
I'm a game developer. I'm going to make games anyway, may as well help people along the way.
I mean, and lets be real, if you're saying that independent of a huge studio. Congrats, you are part of the queer games that will be labelled "playersexual" or some fucking nonsense because your game wasn't big budget enough to be 'real gays'.
And that's not an insult on you, it's just pointing out the like, weirdly fucking repressed view of the OP where only some gay games are 'real' and the others are just poor/indy devs that don't count as gay because of course poor/indy devs are queer.
Yeah, congats on being "playersexual" by this absurd threads gay assimilation ideals.
Thanks! Maybe my artist can whip that into the next merch shirt.
Yeah, that last post was definitely not meant to be a rag on you so much as the absurd "triple A better validate my queerness" stance the OP took on gay rep in games.
Definitely fuck yeah for any queer rep in indy games or cool merch shirts.
The short version is that "write what you know" means "do field research and talk to people you want to represent" and not "write only about yourself".
That's very true; I really want to avoid stereotypes. It does really come down to research and understanding
Or just hire and emphasize queer people.
This doesn't help as much as you'd think. Aside from the biggest AAA games, games are only going to have a writer. Maaaybe two at a stretch. So the majority of the writing is gone to be done by straight people regardless of how well represented queer people are. So if you want big chunk of more non-shit representation, you need that larger group to understand how to write not shit representation. The same applies for different types of queer people, as being gay doesn't magically give you understanding about trans people.
No, its p accurate. The best way to get a girlfriend is through a series of unrelated minigames and just being sort of present when things happen.
I think it's a lot easier to write stereotypes than authentic characters which is why it's so prevalent in video games