Did the Suliban even have a culture? I mean, yeah, Trek aliens are depicted in very broad strokes, but all I remember of the Suliban are their boring ships and that they looked like bipedal floam people.
We see roughly three of them. If I remember right their homeworld is destroyed or abandoned or something and they're scattered on ships mostly, but they just kind of fizzled for such an initially emphasized antagonist.
Edit: the space station made of docked ships is pretty neat, however.
Hevach on
0
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?
The biggest problem with Enterprise is that it is 100% unadulterated boring. The characters are boring. The plots are boring. Even the Enterprise set itself is boring. There are a lot of great premises and somehow in the execution it all turns to boring mush. Even the stuff they blatantly rip off from previous series are somehow done more boring. Which I guess is a testament to Voyager's ability to rehash stories and at least not make them complete snoozefests. I distinctly remember falling asleep while watching Enterprise, which is exactly when I decided to stop watching it entirely.
It had a concept but like somebody said: It was too late for the actual Earth building itself into the paradise we know(with the aftermath of WW3) and too early for the Earth-Romulan war.
It was also stuck with the name Enterprise, which was the exact wrong name, because 2 previous series and a major motion picture had established that there where 5 ships in Starfleet history with that name. Retroactively shitting on the achievements of Kirk and co, since instead of being a ship crew so awesome they decided to keep the name around as a good luck charm, we had Archer and co. Which left you with a question of why they would name another ship Enterprise ever again.
Endeavour, Endurance or Espérance would have been better names and that is just explorer ships.
Plus the ship design sucked, It was a Akira class turned upside down.
Given the show's premise, they should've named it Discovery.
Enterprise never committed to anything. They billed it as the "bootstraps" era of interstellar travel, but we still have phasers and transporters and polarized hull plating that's treated exactly like shields. It's supposed to take place before Earth found its place in the universe, but the world is indistinguishable from the Federation. Then we get to the Temporal Cold War and it's the same half-measures. It had potential under Coto, but by then it was too little, too late.
I mean, I get the basic idea at play. Everything in the show - the ship, the crew, the captain - are new and inexperienced, and they're all, for lack of a better phrase, going to have to grow up together.
The main problems are that hardly anyone is likeable, and that the writers conflated inexperienced with, well, dumb. So, we get told that these are the best people Starfleet has to offer, and it seems like it can't possibly be true because everyone on screen is a bland idiot. The basic premise of the show is undermined from moment one.
Keep in mind, I'm not blaming the actors. I'm blaming the writers (and B&B) for giving the actors so little to actually work with.
But when the best Scott Bakula can do is make Archer simultaneously constipated and whiny, there's some serious issues at play.
The Enterprise Mirror Universe episode was fun and I will stand by this.
It was fun because it ended with the two most underutilized characters winning in the end. The fact that it was the only two minorities in the cast does kind of highlight a problem with the Enterprise writers.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?
I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.
That...turned out not to be the case.
I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?
Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?
I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.
That...turned out not to be the case.
I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?
he was pretty great in quantum leap..
+15
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?
I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.
That...turned out not to be the case.
I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?
That certainly is not his fault. I have seen him in other things (Quantum Leap) and he is charming. That charm just couldn't overcome terrible writing.
"excuse my French
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.
There were elements of this, as there were of Humans going out into the wild and finding their place. Humanity finding itself of the brokers of peace would have been a pretty good hook. I mean it was there, they did it, but as mentioned up thread by others the show was just largely boring and the characters really not very interesting.
I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?
Trip was the best of the lot, which isn't saying much. Reed was a disappointment to me. His background was that his family was part of the military going back to the British Royal Navy. Instead of being a disciplined, career military type, he was more whiny and petulant than Archer. Hoshi and Merriweather were glorified extras unfortunately. Both could've been very interesting given their backgrounds, but the show did nothing with them. They were pure wasted potential.
Hoshi should've been a key player in diplomatic missions. Merriweather weather should've been point man in first contact missions. Both should've worked together often. But, nope.
Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?
I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.
That...turned out not to be the case.
I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?
My voyage of Discovery continues, and yeah, alright, the bittersweet queer trill romance story is 100% my shit.
I also liked the interrogator guy and then was like !! when I watched the credits and saw it was David Cronenberg. I am always in favor of stunt casting movie directors. And rock stars, incidentally. I don't want to reveal how out-of-touch I am by trying to pick a name, but they should get whomever the modern equivalent of David Bowie is to play an alien-of-the-week
Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.
There were elements of this, as there were of Humans going out into the wild and finding their place. Humanity finding itself of the brokers of peace would have been a pretty good hook. I mean it was there, they did it, but as mentioned up thread by others the show was just largely boring and the characters really not very interesting.
I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?
There’s a first season episode of Enterprise, around the Vulcan monastery at P’Jem, and whether it is in fact an illegal Vulcan SIGINT facility. The Vulcan monks say it’s not, the Andorian commandos who show up while Archer is there to blow it up say it is, and the whole thing is just a real clever adventure. May be one of my favourite episodes of any Trek.
When the show managed to realise its potential, even that early, it was great. But it mostly wastes it instead.
Trip was the best of the lot, which isn't saying much. Reed was a disappointment to me. His background was that his family was part of the military going back to the British Royal Navy. Instead of being a disciplined, career military type, he was more whiny and petulant than Archer. Hoshi and Merriweather were glorified extras unfortunately. Both could've been very interesting given their backgrounds, but the show did nothing with them. They were pure wasted potential.
Hoshi should've been a key player in diplomatic missions. Merriweather weather should've been point man in first contact missions. Both should've worked together often. But, nope.
Nah, minorities are just there as window dressing, not as actual characters themselves.
Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.
There were elements of this, as there were of Humans going out into the wild and finding their place. Humanity finding itself of the brokers of peace would have been a pretty good hook. I mean it was there, they did it, but as mentioned up thread by others the show was just largely boring and the characters really not very interesting.
I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?
There’s a first season episode of Enterprise, around the Vulcan monastery at P’Jem, and whether it is in fact an illegal Vulcan SIGINT facility. The Vulcan monks say it’s not, the Andorian commandos who show up while Archer is there to blow it up say it is, and the whole thing is just a real clever adventure. May be one of my favourite episodes of any Trek.
When the show managed to realise its potential, even that early, it was great. But it mostly wastes it instead.
It was too good, so they retroactively ruined it in a follow-up episode. We learn the Vulcans are furious at Earth and Archer because, after he gave the info on P'Jem to the Andorians, they bombed the monastery into non-existence. Of course this was presented as the Vulcans being self-righteous assholes being pissy at Archer for doing the unambiguously right thing.
Because if a traveling Canadian tour bus in the Middle-East stumbled upon a secret illegal US Military base and gave the info to the Taliban so they can blow it up, there's no legitimate reason the US would be upset about that.
Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.
There were elements of this, as there were of Humans going out into the wild and finding their place. Humanity finding itself of the brokers of peace would have been a pretty good hook. I mean it was there, they did it, but as mentioned up thread by others the show was just largely boring and the characters really not very interesting.
I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?
There’s a first season episode of Enterprise, around the Vulcan monastery at P’Jem, and whether it is in fact an illegal Vulcan SIGINT facility. The Vulcan monks say it’s not, the Andorian commandos who show up while Archer is there to blow it up say it is, and the whole thing is just a real clever adventure. May be one of my favourite episodes of any Trek.
When the show managed to realise its potential, even that early, it was great. But it mostly wastes it instead.
It was too good, so they retroactively ruined it in a follow-up episode. We learn the Vulcans are furious at Earth and Archer because, after he gave the info on P'Jem to the Andorians, they bombed the monastery into non-existence. Of course this was presented as the Vulcans being self-righteous assholes being pissy at Archer for doing the unambiguously right thing.
Because if a traveling Canadian tour bus in the Middle-East stumbled upon a secret illegal US Military base and gave the info to the Taliban so they can blow it up, there's no legitimate reason the US would be upset about that.
I appreciated the effort to show that Archer's actions had consequences, but those consequences were wrapped up immediately in that episode and I can't recall it ever being brought up again.
Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.
There were elements of this, as there were of Humans going out into the wild and finding their place. Humanity finding itself of the brokers of peace would have been a pretty good hook. I mean it was there, they did it, but as mentioned up thread by others the show was just largely boring and the characters really not very interesting.
I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?
There’s a first season episode of Enterprise, around the Vulcan monastery at P’Jem, and whether it is in fact an illegal Vulcan SIGINT facility. The Vulcan monks say it’s not, the Andorian commandos who show up while Archer is there to blow it up say it is, and the whole thing is just a real clever adventure. May be one of my favourite episodes of any Trek.
When the show managed to realise its potential, even that early, it was great. But it mostly wastes it instead.
It was too good, so they retroactively ruined it in a follow-up episode. We learn the Vulcans are furious at Earth and Archer because, after he gave the info on P'Jem to the Andorians, they bombed the monastery into non-existence. Of course this was presented as the Vulcans being self-righteous assholes being pissy at Archer for doing the unambiguously right thing.
Because if a traveling Canadian tour bus in the Middle-East stumbled upon a secret illegal US Military base and gave the info to the Taliban so they can blow it up, there's no legitimate reason the US would be upset about that.
I appreciated the effort to show that Archer's actions had consequences, but those consequences were wrapped up immediately in that episode and I can't recall it ever being brought up again.
IIRC it was just a couple of lines in one scene a few episodes later. A blink-and-you'll-miss-it thing.
Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.
This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.
Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?
I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.
That...turned out not to be the case.
I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?
he was pretty great in quantum leap..
wandering here trying to awaken something in the forum's Star Trek nerds.
+2
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?
I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.
That...turned out not to be the case.
I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?
Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.
This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.
Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".
Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.
This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.
Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".
Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.
This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.
Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".
Pretty much. I was actually thinking the episode in S1 where they go camping on the first (not entirely analyzed) Class M planet they find, and someone ends up dead and everyone else gets high as fucking kites... I'm rewatching Enterprise (cuz...) and man, the whole "Trip is Florida Man" is so.... I mean dude got pregnant by putting his body parts in tingly crystals.
I don't hold the Mr Seahorse thing against Trip as he was participating in an alien thing in good faith.
And the other party was, IIRC, surprised anything actually happened... she was apparently expecting some harmless fun, with the biochemical differences meaning no need for "protection" or anything.
(But this is Trek, and species that really shouldn't be compatible often are.)
Commander Zoom on
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.
This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.
Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".
Pretty much. I was actually thinking the episode in S1 where they go camping on the first (not entirely analyzed) Class M planet they find, and someone ends up dead and everyone else gets high as fucking kites... I'm rewatching Enterprise (cuz...) and man, the whole "Trip is Florida Man" is so.... I mean dude got pregnant by putting his body parts in tingly crystals.
The worst thing about the crystals is that the writers never figured out they were writing an assault and treated the whole thing like a joke.
"excuse my French
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.
This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.
Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".
I do love that the one scene in the one episode where Travis ends up alone on the bridge for some reason and fields a call from the angry alien ambassador, he manages to build a dialogue, understand why they're angry at earth, offer an apology that gets accepted, and smooth over inter-species relations. Thus showing himself to be more naturally competent than anyone else in the crew. I don't think he had a speaking line again after that.
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Edit: the space station made of docked ships is pretty neat, however.
Given the show's premise, they should've named it Discovery.
Enterprise never committed to anything. They billed it as the "bootstraps" era of interstellar travel, but we still have phasers and transporters and polarized hull plating that's treated exactly like shields. It's supposed to take place before Earth found its place in the universe, but the world is indistinguishable from the Federation. Then we get to the Temporal Cold War and it's the same half-measures. It had potential under Coto, but by then it was too little, too late.
Probably the same guy who thought Neelix was a shoe in for best star trek character.
"trained diplomat"
He had a dog though. That makes anybody instantly likeable.
People love dogs.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
The main problems are that hardly anyone is likeable, and that the writers conflated inexperienced with, well, dumb. So, we get told that these are the best people Starfleet has to offer, and it seems like it can't possibly be true because everyone on screen is a bland idiot. The basic premise of the show is undermined from moment one.
Keep in mind, I'm not blaming the actors. I'm blaming the writers (and B&B) for giving the actors so little to actually work with.
But when the best Scott Bakula can do is make Archer simultaneously constipated and whiny, there's some serious issues at play.
Except for the time it caused a diplomatic crisis by pissing on the sacred tree.
It was fun because it ended with the two most underutilized characters winning in the end. The fact that it was the only two minorities in the cast does kind of highlight a problem with the Enterprise writers.
To be fair, Archer threatened go piss on it as well, so I think Porthos was still the better diplomat.
I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.
That...turned out not to be the case.
I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?
he was pretty great in quantum leap..
That certainly is not his fault. I have seen him in other things (Quantum Leap) and he is charming. That charm just couldn't overcome terrible writing.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
I think he goes down in history as the captain most phasored by his own crew.
I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?
Hoshi should've been a key player in diplomatic missions. Merriweather weather should've been point man in first contact missions. Both should've worked together often. But, nope.
I also liked the interrogator guy and then was like !! when I watched the credits and saw it was David Cronenberg. I am always in favor of stunt casting movie directors. And rock stars, incidentally. I don't want to reveal how out-of-touch I am by trying to pick a name, but they should get whomever the modern equivalent of David Bowie is to play an alien-of-the-week
There’s a first season episode of Enterprise, around the Vulcan monastery at P’Jem, and whether it is in fact an illegal Vulcan SIGINT facility. The Vulcan monks say it’s not, the Andorian commandos who show up while Archer is there to blow it up say it is, and the whole thing is just a real clever adventure. May be one of my favourite episodes of any Trek.
When the show managed to realise its potential, even that early, it was great. But it mostly wastes it instead.
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Nah, minorities are just there as window dressing, not as actual characters themselves.
It was too good, so they retroactively ruined it in a follow-up episode. We learn the Vulcans are furious at Earth and Archer because, after he gave the info on P'Jem to the Andorians, they bombed the monastery into non-existence. Of course this was presented as the Vulcans being self-righteous assholes being pissy at Archer for doing the unambiguously right thing.
Because if a traveling Canadian tour bus in the Middle-East stumbled upon a secret illegal US Military base and gave the info to the Taliban so they can blow it up, there's no legitimate reason the US would be upset about that.
I appreciated the effort to show that Archer's actions had consequences, but those consequences were wrapped up immediately in that episode and I can't recall it ever being brought up again.
IIRC it was just a couple of lines in one scene a few episodes later. A blink-and-you'll-miss-it thing.
This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.
wandering here trying to awaken something in the forum's Star Trek nerds.
oh boy!
Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".
Pretty much. I was actually thinking the episode in S1 where they go camping on the first (not entirely analyzed) Class M planet they find, and someone ends up dead and everyone else gets high as fucking kites... I'm rewatching Enterprise (cuz...) and man, the whole "Trip is Florida Man" is so.... I mean dude got pregnant by putting his body parts in tingly crystals.
And the other party was, IIRC, surprised anything actually happened... she was apparently expecting some harmless fun, with the biochemical differences meaning no need for "protection" or anything.
(But this is Trek, and species that really shouldn't be compatible often are.)
The worst thing about the crystals is that the writers never figured out they were writing an assault and treated the whole thing like a joke.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
I do love that the one scene in the one episode where Travis ends up alone on the bridge for some reason and fields a call from the angry alien ambassador, he manages to build a dialogue, understand why they're angry at earth, offer an apology that gets accepted, and smooth over inter-species relations. Thus showing himself to be more naturally competent than anyone else in the crew. I don't think he had a speaking line again after that.