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Star Trek: Lower Decks trailer is out. SPOILERS in effect!

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  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Did the Suliban even have a culture? I mean, yeah, Trek aliens are depicted in very broad strokes, but all I remember of the Suliban are their boring ships and that they looked like bipedal floam people.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    We see roughly three of them. If I remember right their homeworld is destroyed or abandoned or something and they're scattered on ships mostly, but they just kind of fizzled for such an initially emphasized antagonist.

    Edit: the space station made of docked ships is pretty neat, however.

    Hevach on
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    The biggest problem with Enterprise is that it is 100% unadulterated boring. The characters are boring. The plots are boring. Even the Enterprise set itself is boring. There are a lot of great premises and somehow in the execution it all turns to boring mush. Even the stuff they blatantly rip off from previous series are somehow done more boring. Which I guess is a testament to Voyager's ability to rehash stories and at least not make them complete snoozefests. I distinctly remember falling asleep while watching Enterprise, which is exactly when I decided to stop watching it entirely.

    It had a concept but like somebody said: It was too late for the actual Earth building itself into the paradise we know(with the aftermath of WW3) and too early for the Earth-Romulan war.

    It was also stuck with the name Enterprise, which was the exact wrong name, because 2 previous series and a major motion picture had established that there where 5 ships in Starfleet history with that name. Retroactively shitting on the achievements of Kirk and co, since instead of being a ship crew so awesome they decided to keep the name around as a good luck charm, we had Archer and co. Which left you with a question of why they would name another ship Enterprise ever again.

    Endeavour, Endurance or Espérance would have been better names and that is just explorer ships.


    Plus the ship design sucked, It was a Akira class turned upside down.

    Given the show's premise, they should've named it Discovery.

    Enterprise never committed to anything. They billed it as the "bootstraps" era of interstellar travel, but we still have phasers and transporters and polarized hull plating that's treated exactly like shields. It's supposed to take place before Earth found its place in the universe, but the world is indistinguishable from the Federation. Then we get to the Temporal Cold War and it's the same half-measures. It had potential under Coto, but by then it was too little, too late.

    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?
    brkickovuboc.jpg

    Mancingtom on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

    Probably the same guy who thought Neelix was a shoe in for best star trek character.

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

    "trained diplomat"

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

    Probably the same guy who thought Neelix was a shoe in for best star trek character.

    He had a dog though. That makes anybody instantly likeable.
    People love dogs.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    The dog was a better diplomat than Archer, certainly.

    "excuse my French
    But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
    - Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    Archer diplomacy summed up: "Am I so out of touch? No...it's the Vulcans who are wrong."

  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    I mean, I get the basic idea at play. Everything in the show - the ship, the crew, the captain - are new and inexperienced, and they're all, for lack of a better phrase, going to have to grow up together.

    The main problems are that hardly anyone is likeable, and that the writers conflated inexperienced with, well, dumb. So, we get told that these are the best people Starfleet has to offer, and it seems like it can't possibly be true because everyone on screen is a bland idiot. The basic premise of the show is undermined from moment one.

    Keep in mind, I'm not blaming the actors. I'm blaming the writers (and B&B) for giving the actors so little to actually work with.

    But when the best Scott Bakula can do is make Archer simultaneously constipated and whiny, there's some serious issues at play.

    Nightslyr on
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    The dog was a better diplomat than Archer, certainly.

    Except for the time it caused a diplomatic crisis by pissing on the sacred tree.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    The Enterprise Mirror Universe episode was fun and I will stand by this.

  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    The Enterprise Mirror Universe episode was fun and I will stand by this.

    It was fun because it ended with the two most underutilized characters winning in the end. The fact that it was the only two minorities in the cast does kind of highlight a problem with the Enterprise writers.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    The dog was a better diplomat than Archer, certainly.

    Except for the time it caused a diplomatic crisis by pissing on the sacred tree.

    To be fair, Archer threatened go piss on it as well, so I think Porthos was still the better diplomat.

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

    I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.

    That...turned out not to be the case.

  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

    I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.

    That...turned out not to be the case.

    I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

    I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.

    That...turned out not to be the case.

    I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?

    he was pretty great in quantum leap..

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

    I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.

    That...turned out not to be the case.

    I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?

    That certainly is not his fault. I have seen him in other things (Quantum Leap) and he is charming. That charm just couldn't overcome terrible writing.

    "excuse my French
    But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
    - Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    on the plus side Archer's face can really take a beating
    https://youtu.be/JTylosJ-BOw

    I think he goes down in history as the captain most phasored by his own crew.

  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.

  • PolarisPolaris I am powerless against the sky. Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.
    There were elements of this, as there were of Humans going out into the wild and finding their place. Humanity finding itself of the brokers of peace would have been a pretty good hook. I mean it was there, they did it, but as mentioned up thread by others the show was just largely boring and the characters really not very interesting.

    I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?

  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Trip was the best of the lot, which isn't saying much. Reed was a disappointment to me. His background was that his family was part of the military going back to the British Royal Navy. Instead of being a disciplined, career military type, he was more whiny and petulant than Archer. Hoshi and Merriweather were glorified extras unfortunately. Both could've been very interesting given their backgrounds, but the show did nothing with them. They were pure wasted potential.

    Hoshi should've been a key player in diplomatic missions. Merriweather weather should've been point man in first contact missions. Both should've worked together often. But, nope.

  • wanderingwandering Russia state-affiliated media Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

    I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.

    That...turned out not to be the case.

    I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?

    he was pretty great in quantum leap..
    l5ivgk5uvm9t.gif

  • wanderingwandering Russia state-affiliated media Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    My voyage of Discovery continues, and yeah, alright, the bittersweet queer trill romance story is 100% my shit.

    I also liked the interrogator guy and then was like !! when I watched the credits and saw it was David Cronenberg. I am always in favor of stunt casting movie directors. And rock stars, incidentally. I don't want to reveal how out-of-touch I am by trying to pick a name, but they should get whomever the modern equivalent of David Bowie is to play an alien-of-the-week

    wandering on
  • CroakerBCCroakerBC TorontoRegistered User regular
    Polaris wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.
    There were elements of this, as there were of Humans going out into the wild and finding their place. Humanity finding itself of the brokers of peace would have been a pretty good hook. I mean it was there, they did it, but as mentioned up thread by others the show was just largely boring and the characters really not very interesting.

    I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?

    There’s a first season episode of Enterprise, around the Vulcan monastery at P’Jem, and whether it is in fact an illegal Vulcan SIGINT facility. The Vulcan monks say it’s not, the Andorian commandos who show up while Archer is there to blow it up say it is, and the whole thing is just a real clever adventure. May be one of my favourite episodes of any Trek.

    When the show managed to realise its potential, even that early, it was great. But it mostly wastes it instead.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    Trip was the best of the lot, which isn't saying much. Reed was a disappointment to me. His background was that his family was part of the military going back to the British Royal Navy. Instead of being a disciplined, career military type, he was more whiny and petulant than Archer. Hoshi and Merriweather were glorified extras unfortunately. Both could've been very interesting given their backgrounds, but the show did nothing with them. They were pure wasted potential.

    Hoshi should've been a key player in diplomatic missions. Merriweather weather should've been point man in first contact missions. Both should've worked together often. But, nope.

    Nah, minorities are just there as window dressing, not as actual characters themselves.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    Polaris wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.
    There were elements of this, as there were of Humans going out into the wild and finding their place. Humanity finding itself of the brokers of peace would have been a pretty good hook. I mean it was there, they did it, but as mentioned up thread by others the show was just largely boring and the characters really not very interesting.

    I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?

    There’s a first season episode of Enterprise, around the Vulcan monastery at P’Jem, and whether it is in fact an illegal Vulcan SIGINT facility. The Vulcan monks say it’s not, the Andorian commandos who show up while Archer is there to blow it up say it is, and the whole thing is just a real clever adventure. May be one of my favourite episodes of any Trek.

    When the show managed to realise its potential, even that early, it was great. But it mostly wastes it instead.

    It was too good, so they retroactively ruined it in a follow-up episode. We learn the Vulcans are furious at Earth and Archer because, after he gave the info on P'Jem to the Andorians, they bombed the monastery into non-existence. Of course this was presented as the Vulcans being self-righteous assholes being pissy at Archer for doing the unambiguously right thing.

    Because if a traveling Canadian tour bus in the Middle-East stumbled upon a secret illegal US Military base and gave the info to the Taliban so they can blow it up, there's no legitimate reason the US would be upset about that.

    sig.gif
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    Polaris wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.
    There were elements of this, as there were of Humans going out into the wild and finding their place. Humanity finding itself of the brokers of peace would have been a pretty good hook. I mean it was there, they did it, but as mentioned up thread by others the show was just largely boring and the characters really not very interesting.

    I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?

    There’s a first season episode of Enterprise, around the Vulcan monastery at P’Jem, and whether it is in fact an illegal Vulcan SIGINT facility. The Vulcan monks say it’s not, the Andorian commandos who show up while Archer is there to blow it up say it is, and the whole thing is just a real clever adventure. May be one of my favourite episodes of any Trek.

    When the show managed to realise its potential, even that early, it was great. But it mostly wastes it instead.

    It was too good, so they retroactively ruined it in a follow-up episode. We learn the Vulcans are furious at Earth and Archer because, after he gave the info on P'Jem to the Andorians, they bombed the monastery into non-existence. Of course this was presented as the Vulcans being self-righteous assholes being pissy at Archer for doing the unambiguously right thing.

    Because if a traveling Canadian tour bus in the Middle-East stumbled upon a secret illegal US Military base and gave the info to the Taliban so they can blow it up, there's no legitimate reason the US would be upset about that.

    I appreciated the effort to show that Archer's actions had consequences, but those consequences were wrapped up immediately in that episode and I can't recall it ever being brought up again.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    Polaris wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Honestly if you'd taken the humans out of ENT and had it be a show about Vulcans and Andorians it would have been pretty good imo.
    There were elements of this, as there were of Humans going out into the wild and finding their place. Humanity finding itself of the brokers of peace would have been a pretty good hook. I mean it was there, they did it, but as mentioned up thread by others the show was just largely boring and the characters really not very interesting.

    I mean despite the flaws of Voyager you could say "at least the Doctor/Seven were good". Who do you say that about in Enterprise, on the Human crew ?

    There’s a first season episode of Enterprise, around the Vulcan monastery at P’Jem, and whether it is in fact an illegal Vulcan SIGINT facility. The Vulcan monks say it’s not, the Andorian commandos who show up while Archer is there to blow it up say it is, and the whole thing is just a real clever adventure. May be one of my favourite episodes of any Trek.

    When the show managed to realise its potential, even that early, it was great. But it mostly wastes it instead.

    It was too good, so they retroactively ruined it in a follow-up episode. We learn the Vulcans are furious at Earth and Archer because, after he gave the info on P'Jem to the Andorians, they bombed the monastery into non-existence. Of course this was presented as the Vulcans being self-righteous assholes being pissy at Archer for doing the unambiguously right thing.

    Because if a traveling Canadian tour bus in the Middle-East stumbled upon a secret illegal US Military base and gave the info to the Taliban so they can blow it up, there's no legitimate reason the US would be upset about that.

    I appreciated the effort to show that Archer's actions had consequences, but those consequences were wrapped up immediately in that episode and I can't recall it ever being brought up again.

    IIRC it was just a couple of lines in one scene a few episodes later. A blink-and-you'll-miss-it thing.

    sig.gif
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.

    This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

    I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.

    That...turned out not to be the case.

    I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?

    he was pretty great in quantum leap..
    l5ivgk5uvm9t.gif

    wandering here trying to awaken something in the forum's Star Trek nerds.

  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Also can someone explain to me who the fuck in the writing room thought that Captain Archer was at all likeable?

    I feel like they just blithely assumed that Scott Bakula's aw-shucks charm would do all the work so they didn't have to.

    That...turned out not to be the case.

    I've never seen Bakula in anything else so people talking about him like some kind of charming actor is bizarre. He's just so unbelievably wooden, I was just amazed such a community theatre grade actor made it onto a TV show. Does he actually come across better in his other shows?

    he was pretty great in quantum leap..
    l5ivgk5uvm9t.gif

    oh boy!

    7qmGNt5.png
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    I seem to remember he was pretty good in Chuck. But I haven't watched Chuck in a while, so opinions may have changed.

  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.

    This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.

    Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.

    This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.

    Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbzuu14bGgs

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.

    This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.

    Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbzuu14bGgs

    Pretty much. I was actually thinking the episode in S1 where they go camping on the first (not entirely analyzed) Class M planet they find, and someone ends up dead and everyone else gets high as fucking kites... I'm rewatching Enterprise (cuz...) and man, the whole "Trip is Florida Man" is so.... I mean dude got pregnant by putting his body parts in tingly crystals.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I don't hold the Mr Seahorse thing against Trip as he was participating in an alien thing in good faith.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    I don't hold the Mr Seahorse thing against Trip as he was participating in an alien thing in good faith.

    And the other party was, IIRC, surprised anything actually happened... she was apparently expecting some harmless fun, with the biochemical differences meaning no need for "protection" or anything.
    (But this is Trek, and species that really shouldn't be compatible often are.)

    Commander Zoom on
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    .
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.

    This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.

    Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbzuu14bGgs

    Pretty much. I was actually thinking the episode in S1 where they go camping on the first (not entirely analyzed) Class M planet they find, and someone ends up dead and everyone else gets high as fucking kites... I'm rewatching Enterprise (cuz...) and man, the whole "Trip is Florida Man" is so.... I mean dude got pregnant by putting his body parts in tingly crystals.

    The worst thing about the crystals is that the writers never figured out they were writing an assault and treated the whole thing like a joke.

    "excuse my French
    But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
    - Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Hydropolo wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Want to talk about poorly used Enterprise characters? How about Travis. Guy's origin story was also his primary character trait - he's been to space. He'll take any opportunity to tell you about being in space, and will relate any problem he encounters or hears about to one he encountered in space.

    This is distinctly less impressive on a show entirely set in space.

    Again, this is just terrible writing. Hes a boomer (not BSG boomer), who should have been ALL kinds of fucking handy to have around. Things like "don't randomly breathe the air on new planets before you've properly analyzed it". "Don't camp on alien worlds without a lot better support options available for escape". Or even a lot more of the "here's some neat things about a space ship".

    I do love that the one scene in the one episode where Travis ends up alone on the bridge for some reason and fields a call from the angry alien ambassador, he manages to build a dialogue, understand why they're angry at earth, offer an apology that gets accepted, and smooth over inter-species relations. Thus showing himself to be more naturally competent than anyone else in the crew. I don't think he had a speaking line again after that.

    sig.gif
This discussion has been closed.