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U.S. Presidential Debate Thread READ OP

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  • edited October 2020
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  • madparrotmadparrot Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    "It's not my fault I'm a horrible person, they made me."

    (his fake moral stand lasted all of not quite three hours.)

    "I'm okay with white supremacy when people don't give me adulations for being against white supremacy" is basically what this boils down to. No real moral stand, just wanting kudos for doing the bog-standard right thing.

    I think he was more bothered by how badly Trump fucked that chicken than support for white supremacy.

    In any case, I was glad to see it. Then we had vitriolic shitheads attack him and, as many posters have said, he didn't join our side. I'm pretty vitriolic at times, but I don't let that out to someone who has/might change their minds.

    He never really changed his mind. This is the sort of game he gets up to: say something that sounds reasonable but stinks of a feint, wait for the inevitable backlash, then take his ball and go home, blaming the backlash for it. The whole thing was meant to attract vitriol from people who knew full well he was just playing a stupid game, so that he could then turn around and point at the vitriol as yet another example of the Intolerant Left sabotaging our own cause.

  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    So I made the mistake of watching this the other night. More than anything about the performances of the two candidates, what struck me was the surreal, dystopian, and absurd feel to the whole thing. The questions were basically a sequence of intractable crises being presented to two old men who are ostensibly expected to solve them, except it's hard to perceive what was on stage as in any way related to a solution. It felt like the debate symbolized our current status as a nation perfectly. The terrifying problems presented by the disturbingly lighthearted moderator were addressed by a dysfunctional non-debate characterized by mumbled half-measures and vague ideological responses consisting mostly of buzzwords being almost wholly drowned out by vicious rage and unrelenting personal assaults. The "debate's" total failure to address any aspect of the myriad calamities America faces is a microcosm of the country's utterly broken political system and its inability to respond to these cascading crises.

    Having mostly emotionally disinvested myself (at least for the moment) from the arguably hopeless farce that is American electoral politics, I was just hoping for some form of dark comedy on Tuesday night. Instead it was just bleak.

    Probably not going to watch the other ones.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Half of conservatives say they're only supporting the racist because liberals were so mean to them. It's remarkably shallow and obvious.

    Yep heard it several times "well I would have supported m4a and the green new deal but you said you don't like *blank* so now I'm going TRUMP!"

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    WaPo had a recent satire piece about this that I don't think I can link to because of satire titled "I can't believe you're forcing me to vote for Trump..."

    Wait, if Trump loses, will we be allowed to post satire again?

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Cybertronian Paranormal Eliminator Registered User regular
    WaPo had a recent satire piece about this that I don't think I can link to because of satire titled "I can't believe you're forcing me to vote for Trump..."

    Wait, if Trump loses, will we be allowed to post satire again?

    Will anything ever be funny again?

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    It's really bothering me that Beau Biden's bronze star citation isn't publicly available. I want to know what it was awarded for

    I mean, he was a MAJ in JAG, right? It was probably his standard deployment award, and not for any particular achievement or act of valor.

    I don’t say that as a knock against him. It’s just how the Army works (I forget if you were in, but for everybody else’s benefit as well). Most units have an unofficial but very real scale of standard deployment awards that everybody who goes can expect to receive, unless they are a complete shitbag or stand out dramatically. I feel like in my unit it was a lot of AAMs for SPC and below, ARCOM up through like SFC or 1LT, then Bronze Stars for everybody above that. I could be misremembering. Again, if you stood out you could get bumped up. But I don’t think a Bronze Star for a MAJ is noteworthy.

    That doesn’t mean it wasn’t for something special, mind. I have no idea. Just saying it may well not be.

    That's what's bothering me, I want to assume it was given to him for simply doing his job well while deployed, but people keep calling him a "hero" and implying it was for combat. (He doesn't seem to have been awarded the Combat Action Badge, so I'm almost certain it wasn't for combat)

    Biden himself didn't call Beau a hero during the debate (he said he was a patriot and people over there were heroes), but it seems disingenuous how a lot of other commentators insist on calling him that if he was in fact just an Army lawyer who did a tour in a combat zone. I know we like to call every veteran a hero, but when we're discussing a politician's son who was himself a politician I don't think the word should be used frivolously.

    (tbh, for a long time I mistakenly assumed Beau Biden was actually killed in Iraq, since his death is often mentioned alongside his service)

    He did his tour while still actively serving as the Attorney General for Delaware. Which would have been an easy reason to not deploy with the rest of his National Guard unit, considering.

  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    WaPo had a recent satire piece about this that I don't think I can link to because of satire titled "I can't believe you're forcing me to vote for Trump..."

    Wait, if Trump loses, will we be allowed to post satire again?

    Will anything ever be funny again?

    If you can momentarily step outside of all the human misery and unnecessary suffering, the abject ridiculousness, stupidity, and avoidable nature our current circumstances are unquestionably hilarious.

    But it’s not really a belly laugh, more of a ‘Spouse worriedly asking if you’re ok,’ kind of laugh.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Id actually be fairly surprised if Scott Adams ever votes

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  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Id actually be fairly surprised if Scott Adams ever votes

    I think whether you voted is on the public record - it could probably be checked fairly easily.

  • RaijuRaiju Shoganai JapanRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Buzzfeed Japan reporter:

    That had to be a hellish experience for those translators

    My wife and I caught snippets of the debate on NHK TV while we were eating lunch at our favorite Japanese buffet place.

    '"I feel sorry for all Americans." - Japan' pretty much sums it up.

  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    It occurred to me earlier that in normal times the right would be jumping all over that "Inshallah?". Are they still doing that and I'm just blissfully ignorant, or did Trump's abysmal performance actually distract them from the predictable "Biden supports Muslim terrorists!!!1!" take?

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    It occurred to me earlier that in normal times the right would be jumping all over that "Inshallah?". Are they still doing that and I'm just blissfully ignorant, or did Trump's abysmal performance actually distract them from the predictable "Biden supports Muslim terrorists!!!1!" take?

    I think the right really does not want people who missed the debate deciding to watch the debate.

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    It occurred to me earlier that in normal times the right would be jumping all over that "Inshallah?". Are they still doing that and I'm just blissfully ignorant, or did Trump's abysmal performance actually distract them from the predictable "Biden supports Muslim terrorists!!!1!" take?

    I remember in 2004, when the GOP tried to attack John Kerry by tying him to Jane Fonda and everyone has to distance themselves from get because patriotism.

    And then 12 years later, Jane Fonda appears at the DNC convention.

    In hindsight, Jane Fonda might be the kiss of death. :(

  • RaijuRaiju Shoganai JapanRegistered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Chris Wallace's surprised pearl-clutching sure is a thing but if it helps Trump look even more deranged and unhinged, the better, I suppose.
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    I've been....I guess pretty satisfied with the debates.

    Not for what happened during them, per se....but!

    My younger brother has been a Trump supporter, and is one of those who supports Trump because Trump is a troll basically.

    The day after the debate he sent me a huge string of text messages freaking out and telling me he absolutely won't be voting for Trump now because, and I quote,

    "What the fuck was that bullshit about not condemning the white supremacist groups? And telling them to stand ready?"

    So, all in all, I'm satisfied.

    I still don't understand how this is a surprise to some people.

    It's NOT a surprise.
    It IS plausible cover to "change their mind" when in reality they realized years ago he was a fuckhead but couldn't be seen to have made a mistake with their choices.
    So now there is a line he's suddenly crossed which makes it ok to say "he's not my guy anymore"

    This is happening because Trump is getting shit kicked in polls and virtually everywhere you look.

    We'll see if it turns into votes but I would expect previous supporters to be dropping off now as it becomes apparent he's losing and will continue to lose. They just need the straw for their camel.

    I surmise a lot of Trump voters are the very definition of sunken cost fallacy.

    They can't possibly have made a terrible mistake in voting for their guy. Choices are indicative of the person making them, and people absolutely, positively hate to be proven wrong and levied with "I told you so". Humans love to be right (as in correct) all the time.

    Some are just racist shitheels and will always look for some excuse, however small, to validate their shitty choices.
    Drez wrote: »
    Trump had two main goals here:

    1. Make Joe look senile
    2. Attack Hunter

    He didn't achieve either of those.

    I think he also literally wanted to stuff every moment with noise. Like literally pollute the debate with noise until it overflowed.

    Trump's debate performance reminds me of an overflowing toilet clogged with all of his BS and verbal diarrhea.

    Raiju on
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    if you were in the military you're a hero

    that's like American as apple pie

    it literally means nothing. it's such a meaningless thing to claim it's not even duplicitous. it's just taken for granted

    Not to get too far into the weeds, but while it’s common to refer to service members as a group as “heroes” simply for serving, often when referring to an individual, specific service member as a “hero” it’s implied that they went somehow above and beyond. It’s a nuance thing.

    I’d note that, IIRC, Biden himself observed this convention. The men that deployed were “heroes,” but he didn’t apply the word to Beau specifically.

    As a guy who also deployed, and earned himself a CAB a few times over, I’d be embarrassed as fuck if somebody called me a “hero” individually. Hell, it’s often used derisively/sarcastically within the military itself (“let’s go, hero”). I think it’s a distinction that matters, at least a little bit.

    As for Beau, he may have been a politician’s kid and a politician himself, but he could easily have not joined or not gone. Easily. And at least when I went over, JAG and Finance types often left the FOB for various reasons, whether it was interacting with locals or dealing with issues on remote FOBs (that didn’t have those specialties on-site full-time). There’s no reason to think he spent his entire deployment behind a desk, and if he’s like every other MAJ I knew they’d probably have to chain him to it to that desk to keep him from jumping at any opportunity, whether out of boredom or straight CAB-chasing.

    I did also get confused and have to check if he died while deployed, it’s easy for it to be implied since he did go and then passed so young. Jesus that’s tough hand Joe got on that front, and fuck Trump for then going after his kids like that, especially with the orchard of low hanging fruit in his own house being left alone as far as the debate (and campaign for the most part) had been concerned.

    I'm sure Major Biden left the FOB,* and even if he didn't, it's not like the FOB is off-limits to mortar fire. I just don't want it to turn into a gotcha thing like "Leftist media falsely claims Biden son was a war hero!"

    Particularly because the only two articles I got from googling Biden's bronze star both say something like "we don't know exactly what it was for, but the Bronze Star is for combat, so it must have been combat!"

    *although his command probably took some pains to keep him away from danger, because getting the Vice President's son killed is a bad career move

    Dongs Galore on
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    if you were in the military you're a hero

    that's like American as apple pie

    it literally means nothing. it's such a meaningless thing to claim it's not even duplicitous. it's just taken for granted

    Not to get too far into the weeds, but while it’s common to refer to service members as a group as “heroes” simply for serving, often when referring to an individual, specific service member as a “hero” it’s implied that they went somehow above and beyond. It’s a nuance thing.

    I’d note that, IIRC, Biden himself observed this convention. The men that deployed were “heroes,” but he didn’t apply the word to Beau specifically.

    As a guy who also deployed, and earned himself a CAB a few times over, I’d be embarrassed as fuck if somebody called me a “hero” individually. Hell, it’s often used derisively/sarcastically within the military itself (“let’s go, hero”). I think it’s a distinction that matters, at least a little bit.

    As for Beau, he may have been a politician’s kid and a politician himself, but he could easily have not joined or not gone. Easily. And at least when I went over, JAG and Finance types often left the FOB for various reasons, whether it was interacting with locals or dealing with issues on remote FOBs (that didn’t have those specialties on-site full-time). There’s no reason to think he spent his entire deployment behind a desk, and if he’s like every other MAJ I knew they’d probably have to chain him to it to that desk to keep him from jumping at any opportunity, whether out of boredom or straight CAB-chasing.

    I did also get confused and have to check if he died while deployed, it’s easy for it to be implied since he did go and then passed so young. Jesus that’s tough hand Joe got on that front, and fuck Trump for then going after his kids like that, especially with the orchard of low hanging fruit in his own house being left alone as far as the debate (and campaign for the most part) had been concerned.

    The republican way. We love you when we can pander to you, fuck you when it doesn't serve our purpose.

    I'm a navy vet and I'm embarrassed for voting for bush in 04 and believing the swiftboat kerry or whatever bullshit. I was a hardcore republican, because they're for the military right? Only when it serves them. And vets that become democrats, may as well be the devil.

    Makes me puke thinking about my old politics.

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    I'd like to envision a scenario where Trump calls in sick and we have extra VP debates instead.

    And then Kamala absolutely destroys Pence, while Trump thinks "better Pence than me."

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    If Trump dials in remotely for the next debate, it'll make it even easier to cut his mic when he goes over time

    Maybe add some Instagram filters while they're at it

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Can they just replace Trump with Alec Baldwin?

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    With the next moderator being the host of Washington Journal it is exactly within his wheelhouse to moderate a call in debate where the Republican line is being occupied by a raving lunatic.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    The debate is already scheduled, if Trump is unable to attend due to his positive test, simply let Biden take the stage alone.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    The debate is already scheduled, if Trump is unable to attend due to his positive test, simply let Biden take the stage alone.

    Biden is too decent for that.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    The debate is already scheduled, if Trump is unable to attend due to his positive test, simply let Biden take the stage alone.

    Biden is too decent for that.

    There’s no benefit and only risk here

    l7ygmd1dd4p1.jpeg
    3b2y43dozpk3.jpeg
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I wonder if Trump’s insane performance at the debate was related to him starting to feel a little sick.

  • ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderator mod
    I wonder if Trump’s insane performance at the debate was related to him starting to feel a little sick.

    It wasn't appreciably any more insane than any time previous he opened his mouth.

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    I wonder if Trump’s insane performance at the debate was related to him starting to feel a little sick.

    Has he been sick with it for 4 years? Because he was a belligerent asshole during those debates too.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Javen wrote: »
    The debate is already scheduled, if Trump is unable to attend due to his positive test, simply let Biden take the stage alone.

    Biden is too decent for that.

    There’s no benefit and only risk here

    Not if Biden is an actually good candidate whose personality and platform can stand on its own without the heavy contrast of Trump's incompetence on full display.

    Javen on
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    The debate is already scheduled, if Trump is unable to attend due to his positive test, simply let Biden take the stage alone.

    Biden is too decent for that.

    There’s no benefit and only risk here

    Not if Biden is an actually good candidate whose personality and platform can stand on its own without the heavy contrast of Trump's incompetence on full display.

    Right

    l7ygmd1dd4p1.jpeg
    3b2y43dozpk3.jpeg
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Debates have not been about policy for years so I don't see why a one man debate would work like that.

  • ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Biden giving some sort of televised speech, a la the fireside chats, if there's no debate would be better than him showing up to the actual debate alone and standing there debating himself and declaring victory

    that would just look arrogant

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    edit: double post

    Couscous on
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    Yeah something like his DNC speech is fine, but really he’s the guy way in front who doesn’t need extra attention right now

    l7ygmd1dd4p1.jpeg
    3b2y43dozpk3.jpeg
  • RaijuRaiju Shoganai JapanRegistered User regular
    Why are we even looking so deeply into Biden's military service? Why not look into any of the Trumps' military records?

    Oh, wait...
    RickRude wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    if you were in the military you're a hero

    that's like American as apple pie

    it literally means nothing. it's such a meaningless thing to claim it's not even duplicitous. it's just taken for granted

    Not to get too far into the weeds, but while it’s common to refer to service members as a group as “heroes” simply for serving, often when referring to an individual, specific service member as a “hero” it’s implied that they went somehow above and beyond. It’s a nuance thing.

    I’d note that, IIRC, Biden himself observed this convention. The men that deployed were “heroes,” but he didn’t apply the word to Beau specifically.

    As a guy who also deployed, and earned himself a CAB a few times over, I’d be embarrassed as fuck if somebody called me a “hero” individually. Hell, it’s often used derisively/sarcastically within the military itself (“let’s go, hero”). I think it’s a distinction that matters, at least a little bit.

    As for Beau, he may have been a politician’s kid and a politician himself, but he could easily have not joined or not gone. Easily. And at least when I went over, JAG and Finance types often left the FOB for various reasons, whether it was interacting with locals or dealing with issues on remote FOBs (that didn’t have those specialties on-site full-time). There’s no reason to think he spent his entire deployment behind a desk, and if he’s like every other MAJ I knew they’d probably have to chain him to it to that desk to keep him from jumping at any opportunity, whether out of boredom or straight CAB-chasing.

    I did also get confused and have to check if he died while deployed, it’s easy for it to be implied since he did go and then passed so young. Jesus that’s tough hand Joe got on that front, and fuck Trump for then going after his kids like that, especially with the orchard of low hanging fruit in his own house being left alone as far as the debate (and campaign for the most part) had been concerned.

    The republican way. We love you when we can pander to you, fuck you when it doesn't serve our purpose.

    I'm a navy vet and I'm embarrassed for voting for bush in 04 and believing the swiftboat kerry or whatever bullshit. I was a hardcore republican, because they're for the military right? Only when it serves them. And vets that become democrats, may as well be the devil.

    Makes me puke thinking about my old politics.

    I despise Fox News and it irritates me to no end that so many fellow military members swallow their tripe and the Republicans' lies. Luckily, everyone in my immediate office sees through Trump's BS and think he's thoroughly corrupt and unhinged.

    But having seen Trump in person at one of his "speeches", there are sadly not an insignificant number of servicemembers who are on his side (a lot of Marines, for certain). But this was before Covid-19 and Trump's damning comments being leaked about how military are "suckers" dying for their country.

    It's clear Trump has no concept of self sacrifice and service to country, and his burning of so many Pentagon brass and the shitty treatment of LtCol Vindman and others did not go unnoticed.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Javen wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    The debate is already scheduled, if Trump is unable to attend due to his positive test, simply let Biden take the stage alone.

    Biden is too decent for that.

    There’s no benefit and only risk here

    Not if Biden is an actually good candidate whose personality and platform can stand on its own without the heavy contrast of Trump's incompetence on full display.

    And we know he can do all those things. He's done speeches. His DNC one was very well received. He can do a town hall. He'll be fine if it's just him up there.

    The idea that Biden being in front of the public is a risk is just more stupid right-wing/far-left "Biden has dementia" crap.

    shryke on
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    they're not gonna be able to just let Biden just do his own thing up there what with the whole 'equal time' thing with network television

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    they're not gonna be able to just let Biden just do his own thing up there what with the whole 'equal time' thing with network television

    This hasn't really been true since the 1980's. Reagan revoked the actual rules.

    The year that shall not be named is an example of this. They gave Trump hours and hours and hours more time for free than his opponent.

    This is only brought out when Dems are involved.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    It may be necessary. The Pity Impulse has been activated, so it's definitely going to become tougher to directly attack Trump without backlash, so Biden is going to have to sell his own platform instead of dunking on Trump's. I fully expect his approval rating to go up, even if the numbers will be soft.

    Presidential approval grows during a national crisis, and the President catching COVID will absolutely be seen as a national crisis.

    Javen on
This discussion has been closed.