Honestly it just seems like a coincidence to me. Virtual reality googles are a cyberpunk thing, VR being uncomfortable to boot into is a cyberpunk thing, and the pattern the medical device uses is just "flash red and white fast," which seems easy enough to land on by yourself if you're just trying to make something obnoxious to look at.
I LOVE the implied tone in the "aside from the one that exists in the EULA"
"try and sue us, fuckers"
3.2 Seizure Warning. Cyberpunk 2077 may contain flashing lights and images, which may induce epileptic seizures. If you or anyone in your household has an epileptic condition, please consult your doctor before playing Cyberpunk 2077. If you experience dizziness, altered vision, eye or muscle twitches, loss of awareness, disorientation, any involuntary movement, or convulsions while playing, immediately discontinue use and consult your doctor.
‘Nother warning here, an’ it’s an important one, too! If you or someone you live with suffers from an epileptic condition, talk to your doctor before jackin’ into Cyberpunk 2077.
This is fucking worthless. It's the standard language you would put on any movie or game, and it is obviously impossible to "have a conversation" with your doctor about the specific thing that happens in the game. Like, I'm not a doctor, but it seems to me there's probably a thing that doctors know when this stuff comes up to be like "generally this should be fine, because I know what flashing lights means for action movies and games". But if you went them and said "ok so in this game there's a medical device that fires lights like the medical devices that cause seizures" they'd be like "uh, don't? Do that."
Honestly it just seems like a coincidence to me. Virtual reality googles are a cyberpunk thing, VR being uncomfortable to boot into is a cyberpunk thing, and the pattern the medical device uses is just "flash red and white fast," which seems easy enough to land on by yourself if you're just trying to make something obnoxious to look at.
they had 5 years of development and hundreds of people this passed through for someone to say "we should check if this is a seizure machine"
*builds a gun from scratch, fires it and shoots someone*
"Oh that's what it does, sorry sorry, oops."
Yeah I'm still... fascinated by the presumed backstory behind this.
By all accounts it is extremely similar to the actual device that is used to trigger epileptic seizures, so we kind of have to assume that whoever put it in the game was aware of the seizure causing device. Did they think it wouldn't work if it's in a video game and not like, attached to a person's head? Did they assume that nobody who has a seizure disorder (or other photosensitivity based issue) would play their video game?
Obviously there's the possibility of out and out malice in there as well, but I'm guessing it's likely tempered with a lot of incompetence or ignorance of seizure disorders. And I kind of doubt we'll ever get that information in a true and honest way, based on their social media apology thus far.
Where it gets more fucked up is that part of going through cert for Microsoft and Sony is passing checks on things literally like "Will this game give someone a seizure", and furthermore the things that detect that are automated, which means that it is statistically likely that someone waved them through anyway because of what a Big Deal Cyberpunk is
The alternative is that it did not go through the cert process for "will this game possibly kill someone"
I’m betting the latter. Between crunch and the multiple delays, a ton of best practices got tossed out the window to avoid another stock drop.
Lots of things get missed when the workers are walking around like zombies and the managers and executives are freaking out because they might get fired.
Phillishere on
0
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
Honestly it just seems like a coincidence to me. Virtual reality googles are a cyberpunk thing, VR being uncomfortable to boot into is a cyberpunk thing, and the pattern the medical device uses is just "flash red and white fast," which seems easy enough to land on by yourself if you're just trying to make something obnoxious to look at.
The idea of using strobe lights to cause discomfort for your audience feels supremely fucked to me
Like, I know this is partially my personal experience from having been around a number of photophobic people and people with seizure disorders, and my general strobe opinion is that they should never be used for anything
But using a game sequence to intentionally cause a player pain (to represent the pain being caused to their avatar) seems pretty awful regardless of whether it exacerbates any medical conditions
And I compared it to a poor quality video I found online that was showing a EEG in progress.
I honestly do not think there's any way you could come at this by coincidence. The process in game is very obviously meant to be like strobe lights firing off to get your brain to seize/connect to the system. The color and purpose of them is exactly aligned.
it's not meant to be obnoxious, it's meant to replicate the idea of using bright lights to do something to your brain.
I LOVE the implied tone in the "aside from the one that exists in the EULA"
"try and sue us, fuckers"
3.2 Seizure Warning. Cyberpunk 2077 may contain flashing lights and images, which may induce epileptic seizures. If you or anyone in your household has an epileptic condition, please consult your doctor before playing Cyberpunk 2077. If you experience dizziness, altered vision, eye or muscle twitches, loss of awareness, disorientation, any involuntary movement, or convulsions while playing, immediately discontinue use and consult your doctor.
‘Nother warning here, an’ it’s an important one, too! If you or someone you live with suffers from an epileptic condition, talk to your doctor before jackin’ into Cyberpunk 2077.
This is fucking worthless. It's the standard language you would put on any movie or game, and it is obviously impossible to "have a conversation" with your doctor about the specific thing that happens in the game. Like, I'm not a doctor, but it seems to me there's probably a thing that doctors know when this stuff comes up to be like "generally this should be fine, because I know what flashing lights means for action movies and games". But if you went them and said "ok so in this game there's a medical device that fires lights like the medical devices that cause seizures" they'd be like "uh, don't? Do that."
And now I owe my doctor $500 because my insurance doesn't cover talking about Cyberpunk!
The famous Porygon episode was over 20 years ago and we have learned nothing since
To be fair the Porygon episode really is something else compared to anything before or since. Cyberpunk's scene is a second of about half the screen flashing; the Porygon scene is eight seconds of full screen flashing between flat red and flat blue. It's truly painful to watch even without epilepsy!
The other thing about this is that it's like, this is from what I can tell a main function of the game. You will be doing this a lot. It's not a one off sequence or a random occurrence.
Huh I didn't realize that in Civ 6 building the flood barriers in a city with flooded tiles fixes the flooded tiles and returns them to normal.
That's kind of disappointing. They should be ruined forever, part of the message that you didn't prepare for this so it got fucked, deal with it and try to do better going forward and next time.
+3
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
The famous Porygon episode was over 20 years ago and we have learned nothing since
To be fair the Porygon episode really is something else compared to anything before or since. Cyberpunk's scene is a second of about half the screen flashing; the Porygon scene is eight seconds of full screen flashing between flat red and flat blue. It's truly painful to watch even without epilepsy!
ok then incredibles 2
Gustav on
+1
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
The famous Porygon episode was over 20 years ago and we have learned nothing since
I feel like many of the lessons applied from that have been specifically applied to children's media. Like, there was a hubbub about Incredibles 2 not that long ago, I've definitely seen it come up with other kids cartoon stuff.
But nobody mentions it for, say, the final sequence of The Color Out Of Space, or the end of S1 of Stranger Things, both of which I had distinct memories of flashing lights (and describing the scene to someone with their eyes covered sitting next to me). This Cyberpunk one did get mentioned, but it's especially egregious, it's actively going for the sort of thing used to cause seizures.
There are reasons that it gets brought up a bunch more with children's media, of course. Childhood epilepsy is a thing, and there are plenty of people who grow out of it, and children are less likely to be cognizant of their seizure triggers, so it's valuable to make it more widely known.
But it's also not like light induced epilepsy (or other photophobic reactions) is solely a children's thing either, so it does still seem weird the way that attention divides.
+1
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
I LOVE the implied tone in the "aside from the one that exists in the EULA"
"try and sue us, fuckers"
Ah, suing, the most American past time
Suing is what you get when the state refuses to regulate or punish, and the courts are the only remaining recourse. Lots and lots of stories planted in the media by the right wing about how lawsuits are out of control is how even that recourse gets removed.
I know it is just a joke, but the constructed bias against the right to sue is one of the many facets of America's creeping authoritarianism.
+7
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
Oh man remember that website like 15 years ago where you did that, I remember putting barcodes on all my citizens to reduce crime. A more feature complete of that idea would be dope
Nationstates! It's still going actually, I have a nation lol
I had a wonderful socialist utopia NationState that took years to build up, but I got bored of it and abandoned it and they auto-deleted it as per their SOPs, so it's gone now.
It would be great if it was easier to sue, especially for individuals against corporations in a way that neuters the overwhelming advantage a company has in regards to money and manpower
I LOVE the implied tone in the "aside from the one that exists in the EULA"
"try and sue us, fuckers"
Ah, suing, the most American past time
Suing is what you get when the state refuses to regulate or punish, and the courts are the only remaining recourse. Lots and lots of stories planted in the media by the right wing about how lawsuits are out of control is how even that recourse gets removed.
I know it is just a joke, but the constructed bias against the right to sue is one of the many facets of America's creeping authoritarianism.
Well yeah, but if you regulate and punish in the first place, you don't need to sue as much.
0
Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
edited December 2020
Couple more hours into Heaven's Vault
I took the priceless, ancient brooch that my boss gave me right at the start and spent it on hiring a slave. Um. Felt a bit weird about that. But then I helped said slave and his girlfriend escape slavedom, even though they tried to murder and rob me, so I think my karma is balanced. Hope my boss wasn't expecting that brooch back though.
Brovid Hasselsmof on
+2
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
Man that is something I just never even encountered in the game I don't think
+2
MachwingIt looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it?Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered Userregular
I took the priceless, ancient brooch that my boss gave me right at the start and spent it on hiring a slave. Um. Felt a bit weird about that. But then I helped said slave and his girlfriend escape slavedom, even though they tried to murder and rob me, so I think my karma is balanced. Hope my boss wasn't expecting that brooch back though.
Your playthrough is practically mirroring mine one-to-one so far! I wonder if we’re making the same choices; I was under the impression that there was more variability depending on the choices you make.
did you pick up the statuette on the hermitage moon? You can return it to the jerk on the farming planet for some extra translation and nicer dialog
0
Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
I am finding that as I'm playing it I'm constantly thinking about how different a replay will be
Unfortunately the translation stuff isn't really doing much for me which is a bummer because that's what I was most looking forward to. Maybe it ramps up at some point but it mostly feels very shallow and too easy. I am digging the writing though.
+1
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
Allegedly if you do a NG+ the translation stuff gets more complex
I have not done this myself though, so I can't speak to it really
Allegedly if you do a NG+ the translation stuff gets more complex
I have not done this myself though, so I can't speak to it really
NG+ you keep all your translations and then all the inscriptions everywhere become more complicated so you're using your old translations to get more words and more information. It's really really good if you're left wanting to know more about the world once you've finished.
I took the priceless, ancient brooch that my boss gave me right at the start and spent it on hiring a slave. Um. Felt a bit weird about that. But then I helped said slave and his girlfriend escape slavedom, even though they tried to murder and rob me, so I think my karma is balanced. Hope my boss wasn't expecting that brooch back though.
Your playthrough is practically mirroring mine one-to-one so far! I wonder if we’re making the same choices; I was under the impression that there was more variability depending on the choices you make.
did you pick up the statuette on the hermitage moon? You can return it to the jerk on the farming planet for some extra translation and nicer dialog
I did. Even though he was a jerk. So far this game is doing a decent job of making all the jerks sympathetic enough that I don't hold their jerkiness against them. Also I'm rude to most people so doing so would be a bit hypocritical.
Allegedly if you do a NG+ the translation stuff gets more complex
I have not done this myself though, so I can't speak to it really
I think what I'd really like is if there was no confirmation of words you get right. Just give me a screen which shows all the words and phrases I've picked up and let me keep shuffling the translations around, and they will get more accurate the more examples I collect. Maybe confirm a few of them, like if you have to use a phrase somewhere to trigger something then you'll know if you've got it right. But I don't like the way Aliya just figures out random words somehow. I think you should at least have to complete a full phrase to get those words confirmed.
0
BaidolI will hold him offEscape while you canRegistered Userregular
I took the priceless, ancient brooch that my boss gave me right at the start and spent it on hiring a slave. Um. Felt a bit weird about that. But then I helped said slave and his girlfriend escape slavedom, even though they tried to murder and rob me, so I think my karma is balanced. Hope my boss wasn't expecting that brooch back though.
Your playthrough is practically mirroring mine one-to-one so far! I wonder if we’re making the same choices; I was under the impression that there was more variability depending on the choices you make.
did you pick up the statuette on the hermitage moon? You can return it to the jerk on the farming planet for some extra translation and nicer dialog
I did. Even though he was a jerk. So far this game is doing a decent job of making all the jerks sympathetic enough that I don't hold their jerkiness against them. Also I'm rude to most people so doing so would be a bit hypocritical.
Allegedly if you do a NG+ the translation stuff gets more complex
I have not done this myself though, so I can't speak to it really
I think what I'd really like is if there was no confirmation of words you get right. Just give me a screen which shows all the words and phrases I've picked up and let me keep shuffling the translations around, and they will get more accurate the more examples I collect. Maybe confirm a few of them, like if you have to use a phrase somewhere to trigger something then you'll know if you've got it right. But I don't like the way Aliya just figures out random words somehow. I think you should at least have to complete a full phrase to get those words confirmed.
What I assume is happening is that once you have the correct word used in multiple phrases it gets confirmed. I've never had a word get confirmed after only one use.
Generally it happens when she sees the same phrase in the same context in multiple places so she knows it's correct. Personally I liked the confirmation because i'm not smart enough to keep track of it all myself to find out if I made a mistake somewhere hours ago.
0
Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
edited December 2020
Yeah it's usually after a couple of phrases. But it still doesn't make sense to me. Like in my earlier example I had guessed two words were Garden and You so when I came across a new 3-word phrase with those two words I guess at the third and ended up with Garden Holds You. Which makes no sense, but it got Garden and You confirmed. But there's no reason to take that nonsensical phrase as a sign I got those words right. It didn't confirm 'holds' so why should she think any of the phrase was correct?
Allegedly if you do a NG+ the translation stuff gets more complex
I have not done this myself though, so I can't speak to it really
NG+ you keep all your translations and then all the inscriptions everywhere become more complicated so you're using your old translations to get more words and more information. It's really really good if you're left wanting to know more about the world once you've finished.
And if you go back for a third playthrough (as I did, because I really loved that game) the translations get another layer of depth.
I could probably look up how many layers it goes, but I like to imagine it just goes forever
Like one male sex worker who is barely noticeable compared to all the other sex workers
Couscous on
+1
JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
"This statue appears to have a three-volume history of this planet carved on the base. Again."
0
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
I could definitely see a version of Heaven's Vault that has you like... collecting all of the pieces of text and putting them all on the screen at the same time for you to try and puzzle through, as opposed to attempting a translation with every new piece
For me, I went back through everything so often that I'm not sure it would really make a difference, and I feel like it would unbalance some things about the game if you were only doing translations some of the time
But there is also something a bit strange to the weird way that the memory of words works, and when things get confirmed or proven wrong
0
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
hmm, could the system that Heaven's Vault uses also work for teaching people real-life languages?
like would it work so that you could learn the character sets of Kanji or Arabic?
Posts
This is fucking worthless. It's the standard language you would put on any movie or game, and it is obviously impossible to "have a conversation" with your doctor about the specific thing that happens in the game. Like, I'm not a doctor, but it seems to me there's probably a thing that doctors know when this stuff comes up to be like "generally this should be fine, because I know what flashing lights means for action movies and games". But if you went them and said "ok so in this game there's a medical device that fires lights like the medical devices that cause seizures" they'd be like "uh, don't? Do that."
they had 5 years of development and hundreds of people this passed through for someone to say "we should check if this is a seizure machine"
If anything this would just hurt sales, I think this lays more into the ignorance or just stupidity column.
I’m betting the latter. Between crunch and the multiple delays, a ton of best practices got tossed out the window to avoid another stock drop.
Lots of things get missed when the workers are walking around like zombies and the managers and executives are freaking out because they might get fired.
The idea of using strobe lights to cause discomfort for your audience feels supremely fucked to me
Like, I know this is partially my personal experience from having been around a number of photophobic people and people with seizure disorders, and my general strobe opinion is that they should never be used for anything
But using a game sequence to intentionally cause a player pain (to represent the pain being caused to their avatar) seems pretty awful regardless of whether it exacerbates any medical conditions
Ah, suing, the most American past time
it's so fun and easy
And I compared it to a poor quality video I found online that was showing a EEG in progress.
I honestly do not think there's any way you could come at this by coincidence. The process in game is very obviously meant to be like strobe lights firing off to get your brain to seize/connect to the system. The color and purpose of them is exactly aligned.
it's not meant to be obnoxious, it's meant to replicate the idea of using bright lights to do something to your brain.
And now I owe my doctor $500 because my insurance doesn't cover talking about Cyberpunk!
To be fair the Porygon episode really is something else compared to anything before or since. Cyberpunk's scene is a second of about half the screen flashing; the Porygon scene is eight seconds of full screen flashing between flat red and flat blue. It's truly painful to watch even without epilepsy!
the anime industry has at least, it's a common practice to darken the screen significantly for any shots with anything approaching flashing lights
That's kind of disappointing. They should be ruined forever, part of the message that you didn't prepare for this so it got fucked, deal with it and try to do better going forward and next time.
ok then incredibles 2
I feel like many of the lessons applied from that have been specifically applied to children's media. Like, there was a hubbub about Incredibles 2 not that long ago, I've definitely seen it come up with other kids cartoon stuff.
But nobody mentions it for, say, the final sequence of The Color Out Of Space, or the end of S1 of Stranger Things, both of which I had distinct memories of flashing lights (and describing the scene to someone with their eyes covered sitting next to me). This Cyberpunk one did get mentioned, but it's especially egregious, it's actively going for the sort of thing used to cause seizures.
There are reasons that it gets brought up a bunch more with children's media, of course. Childhood epilepsy is a thing, and there are plenty of people who grow out of it, and children are less likely to be cognizant of their seizure triggers, so it's valuable to make it more widely known.
But it's also not like light induced epilepsy (or other photophobic reactions) is solely a children's thing either, so it does still seem weird the way that attention divides.
hell yeah spongebob on stadia let's GOOOOOO
Suing is what you get when the state refuses to regulate or punish, and the courts are the only remaining recourse. Lots and lots of stories planted in the media by the right wing about how lawsuits are out of control is how even that recourse gets removed.
I know it is just a joke, but the constructed bias against the right to sue is one of the many facets of America's creeping authoritarianism.
I guess it would be kinda fitting if somebody actually did and this is when everyone finally admits that EULAs are unenforceable
I had a wonderful socialist utopia NationState that took years to build up, but I got bored of it and abandoned it and they auto-deleted it as per their SOPs, so it's gone now.
Well yeah, but if you regulate and punish in the first place, you don't need to sue as much.
Your playthrough is practically mirroring mine one-to-one so far! I wonder if we’re making the same choices; I was under the impression that there was more variability depending on the choices you make.
Unfortunately the translation stuff isn't really doing much for me which is a bummer because that's what I was most looking forward to. Maybe it ramps up at some point but it mostly feels very shallow and too easy. I am digging the writing though.
I have not done this myself though, so I can't speak to it really
NG+ you keep all your translations and then all the inscriptions everywhere become more complicated so you're using your old translations to get more words and more information. It's really really good if you're left wanting to know more about the world once you've finished.
I did. Even though he was a jerk. So far this game is doing a decent job of making all the jerks sympathetic enough that I don't hold their jerkiness against them. Also I'm rude to most people so doing so would be a bit hypocritical.
I think what I'd really like is if there was no confirmation of words you get right. Just give me a screen which shows all the words and phrases I've picked up and let me keep shuffling the translations around, and they will get more accurate the more examples I collect. Maybe confirm a few of them, like if you have to use a phrase somewhere to trigger something then you'll know if you've got it right. But I don't like the way Aliya just figures out random words somehow. I think you should at least have to complete a full phrase to get those words confirmed.
What I assume is happening is that once you have the correct word used in multiple phrases it gets confirmed. I've never had a word get confirmed after only one use.
And if you go back for a third playthrough (as I did, because I really loved that game) the translations get another layer of depth.
I could probably look up how many layers it goes, but I like to imagine it just goes forever
There are several scenes where women are naked but the men have underwear on
Spoilers for the tweet with a link to the video because NSFW
For me, I went back through everything so often that I'm not sure it would really make a difference, and I feel like it would unbalance some things about the game if you were only doing translations some of the time
But there is also something a bit strange to the weird way that the memory of words works, and when things get confirmed or proven wrong
like would it work so that you could learn the character sets of Kanji or Arabic?