I think there were high points, like the sitcom stuff, and Agnes/Agatha was awesome, and Woo and Darcy were great, and the Ship of Theseus discussion was fucking amazing. The special effects budget, of course, was fantastic. I think White Vision is cool looking. I thought the low-key creepiness of the early episodes was very Lynchian and I dug it a lot. I thought the ending was bittersweet and the dialogue was great.
But then there's Agatha's whole plot that doesn't really make sense towards the end. If you're a witch vampire, just go eat magic? Why did she need to know more? Why did she have to be patient? Why did she have to teach Wanda basic defense shit to blow up in her face?
The Evan Peters casting sucked for me, I wouldn't really want them to go "BAM, MUTANTS ARE REAL, PEACE" But I was hoping they'd do something to make his inclusion mysterious and tease us for the future. Make him vanish. Make him ghost away like Marty McFly in BTTF, like, fucking do anything remotely interesting with this. Just a completely wasted opportunity. Again, they didn't need to integrate mutants, but hinting that hey maybe there's more shit out there to explore would have been cool. If anything it was like, "Oh there was nothing really to this and you were a fool to hope there'd be anything to this." I think it mostly winds up to being a stupid decision that feels like a mean decision, and hopefully one they learn from.
The aerospace person turned out to be nobody at all. I think someone in the thread said they made a mistake with that, they didn't intentionally tease anything, I mean that just means it's another fuck-up. Again, it didn't have to be the F4 being integrated into the show. It could have been anyone. It could have been another side character from one of the past movies. It could have been some new character we've never heard of that isn't from the comics but we get some information from for the rest of the show. Anything would have been better than nothing.
Why does White Vision try to kill Wanda when his mission is to kill Vision, and why is his mission to kill Vision? And if his mission is to also kill Wanda, why doesn't he go kill Wanda as soon as he realizes the Ship of Theseus argument holds? Oh okay you're not Vision? Well okay I'm gonna get back to crushing your wife's skull byeeeee. Oh and also hey why is Director Dipshit such a dipshit? He's got his own Vision, and it's powered by Wanda's magic. Okay so obviously the first order is to murder the power source so you can't replicate this ever. At this point I want a spin-off where he continually makes bad decisions and everyone around him is continually confused as to why he's so stupid.
Monica did nothing for me. While people kept saying Darcy and Woo were the audience, I think Monica was the audience because she did nothing to further the plot at all. She ran into the Hex a few times, didn't convince Wanda to stop what she was doing, and then got to talk to a skrull. Her only real function was to be the person who got shot out of the Hex and indicate to us that shit was weird. Darcy caught the bad guy. Woo called the police. Monica solved the great mystery of, "Heh, boner."
And lastly, I'm sad the show's over already. Obviously it had to be over at some point but I really wish they could have done something like this as just a weird show that went several seasons and was just super disconnected from the MCU proper. A "What If?" TV show is clearly something they could pull off and I'm hoping they kick the tires with that idea down the road.
EDIT: And somehow I missed that they're doing a What If? show. Baller.
I think the show would have been much better without SWORD or Monica at all, just Wanda looks at the deed and goes to the site of the house and goes crazy, power hungry Agatha notices and that entire plot happens, we have Jimmy Woo and the FBI camped outside watching the broadcasts but they just exist to reframe and give context to the story in episode 4 or 5 or whenever it was.
Monica and SWORD did nothing except set up Super Monica and White Vision for whatever next movie they're in and it was just such a lazy thing tacked on.
Also, Director Dipshit was going to straight just murder some children.
Like I know he's a bad guy, but that was some hellacious escalation from "I want to build a sentient weapon" to "TIME TO FIRE A GUN AT CHILDREN!"
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
SWORD was a super weird inclusion - for a while I was convinced it was evidence we were in an alt universe, that Wanda had crossed to a different world that still had a Vision or something, but it seems like nah, SWORD has been here since the 90s and just... never been mentioned, ever? It's weird!
Oh brilliant
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MichaelLCIn what furnace was thy brain?ChicagoRegistered Userregular
Do we know how Morgan le Fay got it from Ghost Rider? Or what happened to it after PRIDE had it? I need to watch that season again. The chain of custody is very fuzzy.
Since i don't know what any of that is, I'm going to pretend this is discussing having the sorceress from DuckTales show up in the MCU.
In the land of magic users that can use sling portals I'm guessing it might be easy for one to snatch the darkhold from the other. Ghost Rider hides it in the astral plane or something, but Morgan le Fay senses it's power and grabs it just for Agatha to take it from her. I never watched Runaways so I'm not sure what happened with Morgan la Fay and the Darkhold in that.
...So what you're saying is that its this scene but with the Darkhold.
I love how unlike the movies themselves, the music wouldn't be TOO far out of place in original Trek movies.
On topic, I was reading an interview with one of the WandaVision guys where they were supposedly reshooting some things to nix some fan theories which seems... why? Best case you are spending extra money just to mess with your fans heads, worse, you screw up your story.
EDIT: THIS IS ALL WRONG... I are silly.
Hydropolo on
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
I love how unlike the movies themselves, the music wouldn't be TOO far out of place in original Trek movies.
On topic, I was reading an interview with one of the WandaVision guys where they were supposedly reshooting some things to nix some fan theories which seems... why? Best case you are spending extra money just to mess with your fans heads, worse, you screw up your story.
Do you have a link for that? I find it extremely hard to believe that anything along those lines happened.
I love how unlike the movies themselves, the music wouldn't be TOO far out of place in original Trek movies.
On topic, I was reading an interview with one of the WandaVision guys where they were supposedly reshooting some things to nix some fan theories which seems... why? Best case you are spending extra money just to mess with your fans heads, worse, you screw up your story.
Do you have a link for that? I find it extremely hard to believe that anything along those lines happened.
Yeah, the effects alone. Redoing meaningful portions of an episode in less than a week without foreknowledge of what you're going to change or how it might affect downstream episodes? That would be industry changing.
I COULD see them doing that with a test audience. Round up some YouTube randos who consistently call key story beats from the movies and drip feed them the series, alter things to foil their predictions for the general release.
Bonus: don't tell them what you did so all their predictions are wrong.
I love how unlike the movies themselves, the music wouldn't be TOO far out of place in original Trek movies.
On topic, I was reading an interview with one of the WandaVision guys where they were supposedly reshooting some things to nix some fan theories which seems... why? Best case you are spending extra money just to mess with your fans heads, worse, you screw up your story.
Do you have a link for that? I find it extremely hard to believe that anything along those lines happened.
Nope, you are right, I mistook a joke. In my defense, the transcript loses a lot of the humor notes, listened to the clip and it was clearly a joke. Will edit above.
I really liked Wanda Vision. Sure not all of our theories panned out, but some did, and some went in a completely opposite direction. I really enjoyed the conclusion of Visions arc and look forward to his "restoration. " The ending was incredibly sad, and pulled lots of tears from my wife. I have no doubt that Wanda is going to master her studies and go find those kids.
I think the show would have been much better without SWORD or Monica at all, just Wanda looks at the deed and goes to the site of the house and goes crazy, power hungry Agatha notices and that entire plot happens, we have Jimmy Woo and the FBI camped outside watching the broadcasts but they just exist to reframe and give context to the story in episode 4 or 5 or whenever it was.
Monica and SWORD did nothing except set up Super Monica and White Vision for whatever next movie they're in and it was just such a lazy thing tacked on.
It's my impression that these Disney+ shows are intended to serve two purposes:
* Tell a story that doesn't necessarily make sense as a blockbuster MCU movie release
* Move pieces around the table to set up those blockbuster MCU movie releases
WandaVision told the story of Wanda grieving Vision's death. It also answered the side query of "What happened to Vision's body after he died?" Meanwhile it set a new piece on the board in the form of SWORD, which will presumably get more development during other shows, and Monica, who will probably show up in a forthcoming movie. If SWORD and Monica were confined to WandaVision then yeah, their whole deal and even the inclusion of White Vision seem pointless and like filler. But given that they're just here to introduce them to audiences for later use it seems weird to call it lazy. Like saying that putting SpiderMan in Civil War was lazy because he didn't really do much. Sure, that's true, but it set up SpiderMan as a character and gave the audience context for his outlook at the start of Homecoming, which otherwise would have eaten up a chunk of that movie's runtime giving Peter an experience to make him too big for his Neighborhood SpiderMan boots.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Also, Director Dipshit was going to straight just murder some children.
Like I know he's a bad guy, but that was some hellacious escalation from "I want to build a sentient weapon" to "TIME TO FIRE A GUN AT CHILDREN!"
they needed a better setup of how much he fears super powered beings. Then it makes a "little" more sense that these two children who are SUPERPOWERED are a threat to him. But while we got that kind of craziness from General Ross, we don't get enough from Hayward to know much about him. He was very bland all around.
Didn't he know the children weren't real? Would have seen it on the broadcasts.
Ehhhh.... the kids didn't start breaking apart until Wanda retracted the Hex, and Hayward was advancing on the town at that point so unless he was watching from the truck he probably didn't see that.
He could infer from their sudden appearance/aging/gaining powers that they might not be real, but considering how nothing was really certain that'd be a bit of a risk still. They might have been real kids or alt dimension kids or whatever and he was still prepared to shoot them down.
He probably didn't think of them as real. He did watch the entire "Pregnancy" on TV and their aging up on a whim. To him they where probably just some psychic, psychobabble projections from Wanda's subconscious. The only reason we think of them as real is because we know that Billy and Tommy will grow up to become Young Avengers. If not most of us would probably think of them as illusions as well.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
They might have been extensions of Wanda's power, but they still might have been real too. She literally changes reality! After all, Hayward was able to track Wanda's Vision and his vibranium in the Hex, despite that Vision not being the real thing as we later found out. Who's to say they weren't people he could have murdered?
He probably didn't think of them as real. He did watch the entire "Pregnancy" on TV and their aging up on a whim. To him they where probably just some psychic, psychobabble projections from Wanda's subconscious. The only reason we think of them as real is because we know that Billy and Tommy will grow up to become Young Avengers. If not most of us would probably think of them as illusions as well.
I would say there's a good argument they are real independent of the greater Marvel lore
He noticeably cribs from himself too often for my tastes. It takes me out of the movie when I think, "Is this Enterprising Young Men?" during an unrelated film. It's not uncommon, you can find examples of Danny Elfman, John Williams, and Howard Shore doing the same things, but I seem to pick out a Giacchino "signature" almost as immediately and often as with anything composed by Alan Silvestri.
I guess like Silvestri is for the 80's, Giacchino will just be 'the sound' associated with Naught-ies Nostalgia
I kept waiting for Vision and Wanda to switch dancing partners.
She absorbs all your magic, but one good punch would turn her head into a canoe.
He has all your powers, but is helpless against magic.
....connect the dot!
To be fair, that also works the other way too. WhiteVision nearly crushed Wanda's head, and I've no doubt Agatha could have iced WandaVision if she cared too.
That's what I thought was going to work out. But love the clickbait solution of...
Vision DESTORYS The Vision with FACTS and LOGIC.
At his birth, Vision had to convince the Avengers he wasn't a threat and then in the character's final act he convinces his replacement the same. It was unexpected but fits his character arch perfectly.
someone link the falcon/winter soldier thread if there is one, i couldn't find it but this picture from reddit made me chuckle about what was going on in this thread:
Signed up to watch the rest of Wanda and really liked it. The grief throughline was really, really well done. The boring as shit lightsaber duel that ends every Marvel movie was not to my tastes.
But it's progress in stretching the bounds of what the public will ingest with a cape on the box cover.
And I like the Lone Gunmen vibe of Randall Park, Teyonah Parris, and Kat Dennings a heck of a lot - like, spinoff show a lot.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Park and Dennings as normies in a super world could fuel some fun times. Either a spinoff or just let both their characters have a recurring presence in multiple shows.
someone link the falcon/winter soldier thread if there is one, i couldn't find it but this picture from reddit made me chuckle about what was going on in this thread:
He knows a thing or two...
Man-Thing confirmation!!
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Park and Dennings as normies in a super world could fuel some fun times. Either a spinoff or just let both their characters have a recurring presence in multiple shows.
I like Park and his character a lot.
I'd watch a show that was basically Season 1 of Fringe but the answer is always comics stuff.
Or they could do a Damage Control type of thing, but more investigative. "Alien probe in your backyard? No problem."
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
I think the thing that gets me about the ending is Monica saying "they won't understand what you had to give up." I can understand her saying "I'd bring my mom back if I had your powers," that's totally understandable. Even if she had left it at "they won't understand," I'd consider that an improvement in the line, because of course mere mortals won't understand what happened. Wanda even apologizes to Monica directly, but cannot face the townspeople and do the same, and honestly what kind of apology could she give that they would accept?
Feige has come out and said that yes, he wanted that feeling of fear and mistrust in the end scene and that Wanda's actions will have repercussions in future MCU shows and movies. And good! I'm happy to hear that her actions here are being carried forward as they should be with logical consequences. But that line where Monica tries to abate some of that responsibility that Wanda has, was just really disappointing. I know Monica wants to think of Wanda as a good person and a hero, that's basically her motivation throughout the entire show and the reason she can show such vulnerability and empathy towards Wanda in their confrontation, but that line felt unbearably naive.
I don't think it was supposed to absolve her of what she did; just point out that it wasn't as easy as her flipping a magical switch and fixing everyone. It cost her dearly to do the right thing, and none of the people she hurt will ever really know that. It's supposed to highlight the tragedy of the situation.
Now, she should have tried to do that right thing much earlier in the show, but that's a different argument.
Yeah I'm still going with mental distress leads to irrational decision making. Hell I've met extremely intellectual and wealthy individuals who are broken down inside, the kind of people who can be piss drunk and look you in the eye and say they are sober. The kind of people you can catch in the act doing something heinous, and still have 1000 reasons to try and justify that behavior. Wanda could have stopped earlier, hell had she reasonable mind about her she probably wouldn't have created the Hex to begin with.
Also it took me until literally typing this post out to get the wordplay between hexagon and magic hexes I feel so dumb rn
Local H Jay on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I don't think it was supposed to absolve her of what she did; just point out that it wasn't as easy as her flipping a magical switch and fixing everyone. It cost her dearly to do the right thing, and none of the people she hurt will ever really know that. It's supposed to highlight the tragedy of the situation.
Now, she should have tried to do that right thing much earlier in the show, but that's a different argument.
That's definitely what they're going for with the scene, but for a lot of people the scene leans just a tad too much in the "everything is okay" direction tone-wise. Just a slightest disconnect between intent and execution, and it makes the scene come off "wrong".
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I think the show was okay.
I think there were high points, like the sitcom stuff, and Agnes/Agatha was awesome, and Woo and Darcy were great, and the Ship of Theseus discussion was fucking amazing. The special effects budget, of course, was fantastic. I think White Vision is cool looking. I thought the low-key creepiness of the early episodes was very Lynchian and I dug it a lot. I thought the ending was bittersweet and the dialogue was great.
But then there's Agatha's whole plot that doesn't really make sense towards the end. If you're a witch vampire, just go eat magic? Why did she need to know more? Why did she have to be patient? Why did she have to teach Wanda basic defense shit to blow up in her face?
The Evan Peters casting sucked for me, I wouldn't really want them to go "BAM, MUTANTS ARE REAL, PEACE" But I was hoping they'd do something to make his inclusion mysterious and tease us for the future. Make him vanish. Make him ghost away like Marty McFly in BTTF, like, fucking do anything remotely interesting with this. Just a completely wasted opportunity. Again, they didn't need to integrate mutants, but hinting that hey maybe there's more shit out there to explore would have been cool. If anything it was like, "Oh there was nothing really to this and you were a fool to hope there'd be anything to this." I think it mostly winds up to being a stupid decision that feels like a mean decision, and hopefully one they learn from.
The aerospace person turned out to be nobody at all. I think someone in the thread said they made a mistake with that, they didn't intentionally tease anything, I mean that just means it's another fuck-up. Again, it didn't have to be the F4 being integrated into the show. It could have been anyone. It could have been another side character from one of the past movies. It could have been some new character we've never heard of that isn't from the comics but we get some information from for the rest of the show. Anything would have been better than nothing.
Why does White Vision try to kill Wanda when his mission is to kill Vision, and why is his mission to kill Vision? And if his mission is to also kill Wanda, why doesn't he go kill Wanda as soon as he realizes the Ship of Theseus argument holds? Oh okay you're not Vision? Well okay I'm gonna get back to crushing your wife's skull byeeeee. Oh and also hey why is Director Dipshit such a dipshit? He's got his own Vision, and it's powered by Wanda's magic. Okay so obviously the first order is to murder the power source so you can't replicate this ever. At this point I want a spin-off where he continually makes bad decisions and everyone around him is continually confused as to why he's so stupid.
Monica did nothing for me. While people kept saying Darcy and Woo were the audience, I think Monica was the audience because she did nothing to further the plot at all. She ran into the Hex a few times, didn't convince Wanda to stop what she was doing, and then got to talk to a skrull. Her only real function was to be the person who got shot out of the Hex and indicate to us that shit was weird. Darcy caught the bad guy. Woo called the police. Monica solved the great mystery of, "Heh, boner."
And lastly, I'm sad the show's over already. Obviously it had to be over at some point but I really wish they could have done something like this as just a weird show that went several seasons and was just super disconnected from the MCU proper. A "What If?" TV show is clearly something they could pull off and I'm hoping they kick the tires with that idea down the road.
EDIT: And somehow I missed that they're doing a What If? show. Baller.
Monica and SWORD did nothing except set up Super Monica and White Vision for whatever next movie they're in and it was just such a lazy thing tacked on.
Like I know he's a bad guy, but that was some hellacious escalation from "I want to build a sentient weapon" to "TIME TO FIRE A GUN AT CHILDREN!"
Since i don't know what any of that is, I'm going to pretend this is discussing having the sorceress from DuckTales show up in the MCU.
Morgan le Fay is the villain from the second season of Runaways. She was using the Darkhold take over the world
...So what you're saying is that its this scene but with the Darkhold.
And then I did an internet search and learned that the same composer was responsible for both.
He does good stuff!
On topic, I was reading an interview with one of the WandaVision guys where they were supposedly reshooting some things to nix some fan theories which seems... why? Best case you are spending extra money just to mess with your fans heads, worse, you screw up your story.
EDIT: THIS IS ALL WRONG... I are silly.
Do you have a link for that? I find it extremely hard to believe that anything along those lines happened.
Yeah, the effects alone. Redoing meaningful portions of an episode in less than a week without foreknowledge of what you're going to change or how it might affect downstream episodes? That would be industry changing.
I COULD see them doing that with a test audience. Round up some YouTube randos who consistently call key story beats from the movies and drip feed them the series, alter things to foil their predictions for the general release.
Bonus: don't tell them what you did so all their predictions are wrong.
https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/wandavision-finale-interview-aerospace-engineer-quicksilver-multiverse-matt-shakman/#1
Nope, you are right, I mistook a joke. In my defense, the transcript loses a lot of the humor notes, listened to the clip and it was clearly a joke. Will edit above.
It's my impression that these Disney+ shows are intended to serve two purposes:
* Tell a story that doesn't necessarily make sense as a blockbuster MCU movie release
* Move pieces around the table to set up those blockbuster MCU movie releases
WandaVision told the story of Wanda grieving Vision's death. It also answered the side query of "What happened to Vision's body after he died?" Meanwhile it set a new piece on the board in the form of SWORD, which will presumably get more development during other shows, and Monica, who will probably show up in a forthcoming movie. If SWORD and Monica were confined to WandaVision then yeah, their whole deal and even the inclusion of White Vision seem pointless and like filler. But given that they're just here to introduce them to audiences for later use it seems weird to call it lazy. Like saying that putting SpiderMan in Civil War was lazy because he didn't really do much. Sure, that's true, but it set up SpiderMan as a character and gave the audience context for his outlook at the start of Homecoming, which otherwise would have eaten up a chunk of that movie's runtime giving Peter an experience to make him too big for his Neighborhood SpiderMan boots.
Chadwick is in it :sad:
they needed a better setup of how much he fears super powered beings. Then it makes a "little" more sense that these two children who are SUPERPOWERED are a threat to him. But while we got that kind of craziness from General Ross, we don't get enough from Hayward to know much about him. He was very bland all around.
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GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Ehhhh.... the kids didn't start breaking apart until Wanda retracted the Hex, and Hayward was advancing on the town at that point so unless he was watching from the truck he probably didn't see that.
He could infer from their sudden appearance/aging/gaining powers that they might not be real, but considering how nothing was really certain that'd be a bit of a risk still. They might have been real kids or alt dimension kids or whatever and he was still prepared to shoot them down.
I would say there's a good argument they are real independent of the greater Marvel lore
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He noticeably cribs from himself too often for my tastes. It takes me out of the movie when I think, "Is this Enterprising Young Men?" during an unrelated film. It's not uncommon, you can find examples of Danny Elfman, John Williams, and Howard Shore doing the same things, but I seem to pick out a Giacchino "signature" almost as immediately and often as with anything composed by Alan Silvestri.
I guess like Silvestri is for the 80's, Giacchino will just be 'the sound' associated with Naught-ies Nostalgia
She absorbs all your magic, but one good punch would turn her head into a canoe.
He has all your powers, but is helpless against magic.
....connect the dot!
Vision DESTORYS The Vision with FACTS and LOGIC.
At his birth, Vision had to convince the Avengers he wasn't a threat and then in the character's final act he convinces his replacement the same. It was unexpected but fits his character arch perfectly.
Also being polite and even mannered. So British synthezoid.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
But it's progress in stretching the bounds of what the public will ingest with a cape on the box cover.
And I like the Lone Gunmen vibe of Randall Park, Teyonah Parris, and Kat Dennings a heck of a lot - like, spinoff show a lot.
I like Park and his character a lot.
He knows a thing or two...
I'd watch a show that was basically Season 1 of Fringe but the answer is always comics stuff.
Or they could do a Damage Control type of thing, but more investigative. "Alien probe in your backyard? No problem."
Feige has come out and said that yes, he wanted that feeling of fear and mistrust in the end scene and that Wanda's actions will have repercussions in future MCU shows and movies. And good! I'm happy to hear that her actions here are being carried forward as they should be with logical consequences. But that line where Monica tries to abate some of that responsibility that Wanda has, was just really disappointing. I know Monica wants to think of Wanda as a good person and a hero, that's basically her motivation throughout the entire show and the reason she can show such vulnerability and empathy towards Wanda in their confrontation, but that line felt unbearably naive.
Now, she should have tried to do that right thing much earlier in the show, but that's a different argument.
Also it took me until literally typing this post out to get the wordplay between hexagon and magic hexes I feel so dumb rn
That's definitely what they're going for with the scene, but for a lot of people the scene leans just a tad too much in the "everything is okay" direction tone-wise. Just a slightest disconnect between intent and execution, and it makes the scene come off "wrong".