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The Chairem [Anime] Thread

KanaKana Registered User regular
Anime is a term used to describe animated works from Japan. In 2016 SungWon "ProZD" Cho's "chairem anime" sketches effectively destroyed anime forever, as everyone realized this shit was kinda dumb.



Anyway, the spring season is just about over (watch Odd Taxi!) and the summer season is about to begin. On the eve of this new season, I figured a helpful reminder would be in order.

During any anime season, we can break down anime into several major demographics.

- 50% of shows will be low-effort, copycat isekai bullshit, or in a few years whatever the new flavor is. You will meet people who try to tell you to watch one of them. "It's different!" or "It really comments on the genre in an interesting way!" These are lies, do not believe these people.
- 25% of shows will be about cute girls doing cute things. You can break the CGDCT genre down into about 3 major subdivisions
* 1/3 will be thinly disguised idol shilling, assembling a bunch of fresh-faced, pretty young voice actresses to voice the roles and try to use this show as a launching platform for their acting career. Most of these girls will be out of the industry within a few years.
* 1/3 will be thinly disguised product shilling, trying to convince a bunch of lonely otaku dudes that chicks will totally dig you if only you play X game, collect Y cards, or do Z sport.
* The final third will just be cuz some animators wanted to draw some cute girls doin' stuff.

Of the remaining 25% of shows, 1 will be a weird porno that somehow, inexplicably got released on a mainstream cable channel and got picked up by English streaming services because lol they don't check this stuff. People will be very angry about this show.
Another 2 probably should just be honest with themselves and admit they're porn, but they never will. Horrible teenagers on the internet will think this is endearing and buy the blurays to see fanservice scenes with slightly less fog.
1 will be such a colossal trash fire that the only possible explanation for its creation is some sort of elaborate money laundering scheme behind the scenes.

Finally, there will be 1 or 2 shows that are actually artistically interesting, ambitious, and have a real story to tell. No one will watch these shows.

A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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Posts

  • ChicoBlueChicoBlue Registered User regular
    So, this Guts guy has a big sword and that's his whole thing?

    Kristmas Kthulhu
  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    ChicoBlue wrote: »
    So, this Guts guy has a big sword and that's his whole thing?

    He's also very angry

    KanaMunkus BeaverReynoldsErlecMysstdarunia106DoodmannmysticjuicerAndy JoeKristmas Kthulhuitalianranma
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    ChicoBlue wrote: »
    So, this Guts guy has a big sword and that's his whole thing?

    Are you reading, watching the old anime, watching the the movies, or watching the new anime?

    Because yes, but also depending on which you're watching there may be OTHER things.

  • miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    that thing was too big to be called a sword

    too big, too thick, too heavy, and too rough, it was more like a large hunk of iron

    DaypigeonJragghencB557shoeboxjeddyReynoldsBeef AvengerMunkus Beaverff7007Shenl742milskiJayKaosThegreatcowmysticjuicerAndy JoeWeedLordVegetaP10Kristmas KthulhuBeastehitalianranma
  • ChicoBlueChicoBlue Registered User regular
    I am reading a bit of the manga.

    It has a Nosferatu in it.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    ChicoBlue wrote: »
    I am reading a bit of the manga.

    It has a Nosferatu in it.

    After like...7 chapters it stops being an evil dead fanfic and jumps back to tell his story.

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Ye you know guts has a big sword and hits dudes with it, nothing going on under the surface with him, pretty simple character
    Also he's a rape survivor with ptsd whose journey is more about persevering in the face of depression and trauma and trying to finally reach out and make healthy relationships with new people

    but also the sword

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Doodmannitalianranma
  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Early berserk is... a lot.

    I mean, so is late berserk, but early Berserk is really a lot.

    The entire story is basically "Hey this Guts fellow is super fucked up?" followed by "and here's why!" followed by "he's still messed up but maybe things will eventually get better?"

    KanaJragghenMunkus BeaverShenl742Doodmann
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    Anyway as I was saying

    I love Way of the Househusband

    Juggernut on
    miscellaneousinsanityDark Raven XDoodmanndjmitchellamysticjuicer
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    The first arc of the manga took me a few tries to get past, it didn't seem that good and I figured people who said it got better were just blowing smoke, as fans do

    And yeah it's never like, not A LOT, but Miura really finds his footing with how he wants to tell his story and what it's really about.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    Has anyone watched this animo on Netflix called Record of Ragnarok?

  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Anyway as I was saying

    I love Way of the Househusband

    Honestly, it's not striking me as funny as I would have expected (on the 5th manga volume). Like, I don't think it nails punchlines very hard and it's also too obvious what the joke will end up being from the first beat of a particular story. I'm comparing it to stuff like Cromartie High School and Spy X Family, and I like those a lot better. Not trying to be a bummer about this, I really did expect it to be a fave just from the premise.

    Thro
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Refrigerator-senpai x Lamp-senpai OTP

    BahamutZERO.gif
    JragghenAndy Joe
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Has anyone watched this animo on Netflix called Record of Ragnarok?

    I only checked out some clips to see if it was well animated since it's basically just "what if Warriors Orochi, but without ANY story whatsoever," and it was... not, to put it mildly. That's the extent of my knowledge of it though. Very, very terrible fight animation in a fighting show.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Has anyone watched this animo on Netflix called Record of Ragnarok?

    Literally heard nothing but bad things.

    Twitch Channel
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    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
    ReynoldsTofystedethLucedes
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Has anyone watched this animo on Netflix called Record of Ragnarok?

    I only checked out some clips to see if it was well animated since it's basically just "what if Warriors Orochi, but without ANY story whatsoever," and it was... not, to put it mildly. That's the extent of my knowledge of it though. Very, very terrible fight animation in a fighting show.

    If you heard it's got no story whatsoever then damn Netflix fucked it up badly.

    Records of Ragnarok manga has the story as being the gods have decided it's time to pull the plug on humanity, so one of the Valkyries uses an old bylaw that lets humanity choose champions and fight the gods in one on one battles to the death to avoid extinction. This results in matchups like Sasaki Koujirou vs Poseidon, Adam vs Zeus, and Jack the Ripper vs Heracles. Each of the fights is interspersed with some history on the combatants, the myths and legends of the gods and the lives of the humans. In fact it's those character bits that give weight to the combatants and their fight.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    I think the problem I heard with this adaptation is it cuts all of the story parts the manga version has, but I haven't watched it and might be thinking of a different fighty show

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    How could they mess up the fighting, that's basically the main draw of the whole series! A giant toy box of famous gods and men where the author just bashes them together!

  • HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    I've only seen one clip, but the "fight" shown was just a series of still images with some generic fight noises over the top.

  • darunia106darunia106 J-bob in games Death MountainRegistered User regular
    ph blake wrote: »
    ChicoBlue wrote: »
    So, this Guts guy has a big sword and that's his whole thing?

    He's also very angry

    But what really makes it interesting is sometimes he's not.

    pHWHd2G.jpg
    Andy Joe
  • simulacrumsimulacrum She/herRegistered User regular
    Yeah I love how expressive the faces are in the manga

    Skeith
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    We interrupt this shonen arc to bring you an unrelated filler arc because we were catching up to the manga.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Yeesh, the anime is just not doing the manga justice at that point.

    Although I don't know if its possible to do that... those faces aren't even trying.

    Steam: Polaritie
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  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    After a bit you get his origin story in which he is a smaller angry young man. Then he grows up to be a less angry full grown man. Then he becomes the very very angry big man of the present.

  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    The Spider anime's finale has been delayed to an unknown date due to production issues.

  • rhylithrhylith Registered User regular
    That sounds about right.

    This is happening too often. Anime makes money hand over fist now - give these shows the budget and time to avoid this shit already!

    Rhylith - <Shambler Milk> Horde Chogall
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited June 24
    Lars wrote: »
    The Spider anime's finale has been delayed to an unknown date due to production issues.

    I'm real glad I bought all the books, as I was looking forward to seeing all the cliffhangers resolved.

    E: Spider is a Crunchyroll anime, so does that mean they're financing it?

    silence1186 on
    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    rhylith wrote: »
    That sounds about right.

    This is happening too often. Anime makes money hand over fist now - give these shows the budget and time to avoid this shit already!

    Doesn't anime actually make negative money, because they have to pay the TV stations to air it? Shows are just advertisements for the manga, merch and movies.

    Reynolds on
    uyvfOQy.png
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    Zombie Land Saga S2 Finale

    ...uh....

    (Massive Spoilers)
    Seriously, it's wtf territory.
    In the last ten seconds, an Independence Day alien spaceship shows up out of nowhere and blows everything up.

    The End.

    Lars on
  • rhylithrhylith Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    That sounds about right.

    This is happening too often. Anime makes money hand over fist now - give these shows the budget and time to avoid this shit already!

    Doesn't anime actually make negative money, because they have to pay the TV stations to air it? Shows are just advertisements for the manga, merch and movies.

    If anime made negative money you wouldn’t have Netflix pushing hard into it and Sony purchasing crunchyroll for a billion dollars.

    Rhylith - <Shambler Milk> Horde Chogall
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    rhylith wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    That sounds about right.

    This is happening too often. Anime makes money hand over fist now - give these shows the budget and time to avoid this shit already!

    Doesn't anime actually make negative money, because they have to pay the TV stations to air it? Shows are just advertisements for the manga, merch and movies.

    If anime made negative money you wouldn’t have Netflix pushing hard into it and Sony purchasing crunchyroll for a billion dollars.

    CREATING anime makes negative money, and relies on massive exploitation. Grabbing the rights and reselling it to a global market is quite profitable, and last I saw, represented something like half the revenue of the entire anime industry in recent years. It's your standard Walmart-esque racket.

    That said, it's also WAAAAAAAYYYY the fuck cheaper to make animated shows. Even high budget studios/shows like PA Works are only about a $2 million per season production cost. You could have made half a dozen 13 episode series for the same budget that a single episode of the last season of Game of Thrones had. It's largely a speculation market, same as for Japan. 95% will be unprofitable aside from the advertising, but for the one that hits gold? Rolling in the dough.
    According to Masamune Sakaki, a CG creator in the anime industry, an average 13-episode anime season costs around 250 million yen (or $2 million). He also made it clear that most anime can't recoup this expense, and the industry rests on the windfall of a few big hits. In a July interview, Takayuki Nagatani, producer of Shirobako (itself an anime about anime production), claimed that his show cost 500 million yen (or $4 million) for 24 episodes. In order to make it sell, he had to "advertise it, plan events, and make merchandise." Shinji Takamatsu, a veteran animator, cited a figure of 150 to 200 million yen ($1.2 to $1.6 million). "Expecting to make that up through disc sales alone is a hopeless business model, but that's how almost all late night anime are," he writes.

    ArcTangent on
    ReynoldsEvilOtakuKnight_
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Anyway as I was saying

    I love Way of the Househusband

    Honestly, it's not striking me as funny as I would have expected (on the 5th manga volume). Like, I don't think it nails punchlines very hard and it's also too obvious what the joke will end up being from the first beat of a particular story. I'm comparing it to stuff like Cromartie High School and Spy X Family, and I like those a lot better. Not trying to be a bummer about this, I really did expect it to be a fave just from the premise.

    Oh I know absolutely nothing about the Mangas I'm just watching the Netflix adaptation.

    The animation style is initially kinda weird but I very quickly grew to enjoy it. It just really works with this particular show for some reason.

    It's very wholesome and low key despite the absurdity of it.

  • DaypigeonDaypigeon Registered User regular
    vague berserk premature ending thoughts
    I don't think i'm ever not going to be sad about miura's passing, but with a few weeks to think about it, i am strangely content with where guts ended up. it was likely a minor respite along the way before everyone got thrown back into the shit, but at least there was some closure and the possibility of a peaceful future

    definitely wish we could have seen a bit more of where the supporting cast's stories were going, that's the part i feel less confident in projecting an ending for.

    NaphtaliJragghenMorninglordShenl742Olivaw
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    That sounds about right.

    This is happening too often. Anime makes money hand over fist now - give these shows the budget and time to avoid this shit already!

    Doesn't anime actually make negative money, because they have to pay the TV stations to air it? Shows are just advertisements for the manga, merch and movies.

    If anime made negative money you wouldn’t have Netflix pushing hard into it and Sony purchasing crunchyroll for a billion dollars.

    CREATING anime makes negative money, and relies on massive exploitation. Grabbing the rights and reselling it to a global market is quite profitable, and last I saw, represented something like half the revenue of the entire anime industry in recent years. It's your standard Walmart-esque racket.

    That said, it's also WAAAAAAAYYYY the fuck cheaper to make animated shows. Even high budget studios/shows like PA Works are only about a $2 million per season production cost. You could have made half a dozen 13 episode series for the same budget that a single episode of the last season of Game of Thrones had. It's largely a speculation market, same as for Japan. 95% will be unprofitable aside from the advertising, but for the one that hits gold? Rolling in the dough.
    According to Masamune Sakaki, a CG creator in the anime industry, an average 13-episode anime season costs around 250 million yen (or $2 million). He also made it clear that most anime can't recoup this expense, and the industry rests on the windfall of a few big hits. In a July interview, Takayuki Nagatani, producer of Shirobako (itself an anime about anime production), claimed that his show cost 500 million yen (or $4 million) for 24 episodes. In order to make it sell, he had to "advertise it, plan events, and make merchandise." Shinji Takamatsu, a veteran animator, cited a figure of 150 to 200 million yen ($1.2 to $1.6 million). "Expecting to make that up through disc sales alone is a hopeless business model, but that's how almost all late night anime are," he writes.

    Doesn't streaming enters anywhere on this conversation? Like, Crunchyroll was founded 15 years ago, and the streaming market only got bigger, with things like Netflix Japan picking up these last few years.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    That sounds about right.

    This is happening too often. Anime makes money hand over fist now - give these shows the budget and time to avoid this shit already!

    Doesn't anime actually make negative money, because they have to pay the TV stations to air it? Shows are just advertisements for the manga, merch and movies.

    If anime made negative money you wouldn’t have Netflix pushing hard into it and Sony purchasing crunchyroll for a billion dollars.

    CREATING anime makes negative money, and relies on massive exploitation. Grabbing the rights and reselling it to a global market is quite profitable, and last I saw, represented something like half the revenue of the entire anime industry in recent years. It's your standard Walmart-esque racket.

    That said, it's also WAAAAAAAYYYY the fuck cheaper to make animated shows. Even high budget studios/shows like PA Works are only about a $2 million per season production cost. You could have made half a dozen 13 episode series for the same budget that a single episode of the last season of Game of Thrones had. It's largely a speculation market, same as for Japan. 95% will be unprofitable aside from the advertising, but for the one that hits gold? Rolling in the dough.
    According to Masamune Sakaki, a CG creator in the anime industry, an average 13-episode anime season costs around 250 million yen (or $2 million). He also made it clear that most anime can't recoup this expense, and the industry rests on the windfall of a few big hits. In a July interview, Takayuki Nagatani, producer of Shirobako (itself an anime about anime production), claimed that his show cost 500 million yen (or $4 million) for 24 episodes. In order to make it sell, he had to "advertise it, plan events, and make merchandise." Shinji Takamatsu, a veteran animator, cited a figure of 150 to 200 million yen ($1.2 to $1.6 million). "Expecting to make that up through disc sales alone is a hopeless business model, but that's how almost all late night anime are," he writes.

    Doesn't streaming enters anywhere on this conversation? Like, Crunchyroll was founded 15 years ago, and the streaming market only got bigger, with things like Netflix Japan picking up these last few years.

    Streaming has exploded (just in general) the last few years, but it also started from being a tiny, niche thing. 2021 is probably going to be the first year that all global overseas EVERYTHING manages to surpass domestic revenue, although who knows with covid still going hot. Domestic streaming is only about the same as merchandise, and a fifth of "pachinko."
    https://aja.gr.jp/download/anime-industry-report-2020-summary?wpdmdl=1691&refresh=60d516de5e41f1624577758

    My experience with Japanese business culture (game localization, not anime/manga) is that they are deeply, deeply distrustful of dealing with people outside Japan and see translation as encouraging piracy. I'm sure attitudes are shifting, but I would assume that the production companies are mainly the ones pushing overseas stuff and getting all the money from it.

    ArcTangent on
    italianranma
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    That sounds about right.

    This is happening too often. Anime makes money hand over fist now - give these shows the budget and time to avoid this shit already!

    Doesn't anime actually make negative money, because they have to pay the TV stations to air it? Shows are just advertisements for the manga, merch and movies.

    If anime made negative money you wouldn’t have Netflix pushing hard into it and Sony purchasing crunchyroll for a billion dollars.

    CREATING anime makes negative money, and relies on massive exploitation. Grabbing the rights and reselling it to a global market is quite profitable, and last I saw, represented something like half the revenue of the entire anime industry in recent years. It's your standard Walmart-esque racket.

    That said, it's also WAAAAAAAYYYY the fuck cheaper to make animated shows. Even high budget studios/shows like PA Works are only about a $2 million per season production cost. You could have made half a dozen 13 episode series for the same budget that a single episode of the last season of Game of Thrones had. It's largely a speculation market, same as for Japan. 95% will be unprofitable aside from the advertising, but for the one that hits gold? Rolling in the dough.
    According to Masamune Sakaki, a CG creator in the anime industry, an average 13-episode anime season costs around 250 million yen (or $2 million). He also made it clear that most anime can't recoup this expense, and the industry rests on the windfall of a few big hits. In a July interview, Takayuki Nagatani, producer of Shirobako (itself an anime about anime production), claimed that his show cost 500 million yen (or $4 million) for 24 episodes. In order to make it sell, he had to "advertise it, plan events, and make merchandise." Shinji Takamatsu, a veteran animator, cited a figure of 150 to 200 million yen ($1.2 to $1.6 million). "Expecting to make that up through disc sales alone is a hopeless business model, but that's how almost all late night anime are," he writes.

    Doesn't streaming enters anywhere on this conversation? Like, Crunchyroll was founded 15 years ago, and the streaming market only got bigger, with things like Netflix Japan picking up these last few years.

    Streaming has exploded (just in general) the last few years, but it also started from being a tiny, niche thing. 2021 is probably going to be the first year that all global overseas EVERYTHING manages to surpass domestic revenue, although who knows with covid still going hot. Domestic streaming is only about the same as merchandise, and a fifth of "pachinko."
    https://aja.gr.jp/download/anime-industry-report-2020-summary?wpdmdl=1691&refresh=60d516de5e41f1624577758

    My experience with Japanese business culture (game localization, not anime/manga) is that they are deeply, deeply distrustful of dealing with people outside Japan and see translation as encouraging piracy. I'm sure attitudes are shifting, but I would assume that the production companies are mainly the ones pushing overseas stuff and getting all the money from it.

    No, what I mean, there's Japanese streaming services already, besides Netflix Japan. Like, Redo of Healer made headlines for topping one of them (sigh). So, the old "but disc sales" is just looking more outdated each day.

  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    My hard copy of the new (finally!) Haruhi novel, The Intuition of Haruhi Suzumiya finally came in today. It's kind of nuts that this series is finally continuing, I hope the author has it in him to keep going and that this just wasn't a strange one off (if you're unaware, the plotline never completed, the novels just went on hiatus for NINE years). In the very end, there's a special afterword about his memories with KyoAni, that was a sucker punch I did not see coming. I also appreciate that this one coming out led to a reissue of the entire series, so I was finally able to get a copy of the one that was impossibly pricy due to being out of print (Dissociation).

    silence1186Lucedes
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited June 25
    Sorry, I'm not following. By the above (report in March 2021), streaming was a fairly small piece of the overall revenue for the industry, only 68.5 billion yen revenue total, compared to eg 320 billion yen for pachinko. It looks to me like domestic streaming is cannibalizing DVD sales, as one's going up as the other's dropping in roughly similar amounts, but that's just eyeballing with no rigorous analysis. Not sure what you mean by "but disc sales." Reference to the Manabi Line schtick? But even that was in the low thousands and more a metric with high correlation to general popularity and other stuff than meant as a straight line to revenue.

    ArcTangent on
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