The Wheel of Time Turns [show only]

burbo

I know its hard to get people to buy in after a first season that vacillated between fun-bad and bad-bad, and a second season between fun-good and fun-bad, but i think the show might actually be good-good now. Ep 4 was a legit great episode of tv!

Book question

its been many year since i read these, did we ever get any scenes from the age of legends or breaking other than the Lews going crazy one? That visual of the bore was really really cool, even if it looked like a wrestling championship belt.

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BlackDragon480

burbo wrote: »

I know its hard to get people to buy in after a first season that vacillated between fun-bad and bad-bad, and a second season between fun-good and fun-bad, but i think the show might actually be good-good now. Ep 4 was a legit great episode of tv!

Book question

its been many year since i read these, did we ever get any scenes from the age of legends or breaking other than the Lews going crazy one? That visual of the bore was really really cool, even if it looked like a wrestling championship belt.

Bits and pieces in the Tel'arond'rihod/world of dreams, Rand walking the pillars in the Aiel city to get his dragon markings, and the Tower of Foxes, IIRC. No real full on vignettes or coherent flashbacks, outside of some ancillary stuff like the World of The Wheel of TIme book

ahava

burbo wrote: »

I know its hard to get people to buy in after a first season that vacillated between fun-bad and bad-bad, and a second season between fun-good and fun-bad, but i think the show might actually be good-good now. Ep 4 was a legit great episode of tv!

Book question

its been many year since i read these, did we ever get any scenes from the age of legends or breaking other than the Lews going crazy one? That visual of the bore was really really cool, even if it looked like a wrestling championship belt.

Kinda Answer

There's all kinds of hints of things buried within conversations and internal monologues of the Forsaken. Talking about things that sound like cars, planes, electric light bulbs, and the like. but no real images or flashbacks to these things. Just hints. Rooms that you can change the walls/scenery on as if they were giant TV monitors like you get in some art installations etc. but they're all just side comments, mentioned in passing, and it's up to you to pick up on them.

I'm on my..... i dunno 10th? re-read right now and I'm still finding things that i missed before, because now I'm listening to it instead of reading and letting my eyes skip the exposition.

mittens

Selner wrote: »

Ilpala wrote: »

S3 Ep 4

Obviously as a book reader, I can't help but have wanted more, but the MOST important stuff is here and it's great.

There's even a bonus vision as Janduin, both to drive home a bit of the backstory while emphasizing that these are not random people he's seeing into the lives of but HIS ancestors

Also the BORE, Jesus. Not a good time had by Moiraine, either.

S3 ep4 thoughts...

Yeah, book reader here too, and I'd been hoping for some more. But it hit all the high points. The show didn't have enough time to do *everything*, so what we got was good. The sa'angreal bit was a bit of a change, but I guess that's "OK", as it consolidates things a bit. Sort of wonder how they'll twist things for later events though.

And yeah, the Bore was super cool. A literal Breaking.

And.. the Spear in one of the visions looked a bit like what I'd expect "The Spear" to look like. Is it still in the line of the other spears? Rand should go get it. Especially if other stuff is going to get cut.

I was thinking about this just the other day after Ahava and I were chatting about book/show changes and theories on how the show plays out. Some of my theories are colored by my wife who has never read the books and never plans to as she doesn't do sci-fi or fantasy at all and is watching and asking questions knowing absolutely nothing of the source material. So this is going to be some heavy leaning on book spoilers as my knowledge from that is piecing together what I think they are going to do on the show:

The consolidation of the Choedan Kal to Callandor and Sakarnan the Opal Sphere makes sense as it means one fewer artifact to have to explain and will also show the importance of Callandor as this extremely powerful sa'angreal. I think it will also be a good way to show not tell the viewers about the flaw of Callandor where a man channeling with Callandor can be controlled by a woman which will play a pretty key role in the Last Battle. The whole lack of a buffer thing I think probably won't play much if any role as that's not really critical to the plot.

Also, Incindium pointed out to me that (some more book spoilers, sorry)

Sakarnen was in the books but it was a male sa'angreal. I looked it up and yep, it was the sa'angreal being used by Demandred in the Last Battle and the description on the wiki totally reads like the Holy Grail onna stick, or I'm cutting me own throat. Speaking of which, how bout that Moiraine many futures in the rings scene???

burbo

mittens wrote: »

Selner wrote: »

Ilpala wrote: »

S3 Ep 4

Obviously as a book reader, I can't help but have wanted more, but the MOST important stuff is here and it's great.

There's even a bonus vision as Janduin, both to drive home a bit of the backstory while emphasizing that these are not random people he's seeing into the lives of but HIS ancestors

Also the BORE, Jesus. Not a good time had by Moiraine, either.

S3 ep4 thoughts...

Yeah, book reader here too, and I'd been hoping for some more. But it hit all the high points. The show didn't have enough time to do *everything*, so what we got was good. The sa'angreal bit was a bit of a change, but I guess that's "OK", as it consolidates things a bit. Sort of wonder how they'll twist things for later events though.

And yeah, the Bore was super cool. A literal Breaking.

And.. the Spear in one of the visions looked a bit like what I'd expect "The Spear" to look like. Is it still in the line of the other spears? Rand should go get it. Especially if other stuff is going to get cut.

I was thinking about this just the other day after Ahava and I were chatting about book/show changes and theories on how the show plays out. Some of my theories are colored by my wife who has never read the books and never plans to as she doesn't do sci-fi or fantasy at all and is watching and asking questions knowing absolutely nothing of the source material. So this is going to be some heavy leaning on book spoilers as my knowledge from that is piecing together what I think they are going to do on the show:

The consolidation of the Choedan Kal to Callandor and Sakarnan the Opal Sphere makes sense as it means one fewer artifact to have to explain and will also show the importance of Callandor as this extremely powerful sa'angreal. I think it will also be a good way to show not tell the viewers about the flaw of Callandor where a man channeling with Callandor can be controlled by a woman which will play a pretty key role in the Last Battle. The whole lack of a buffer thing I think probably won't play much if any role as that's not really critical to the plot.

Also, Incindium pointed out to me that (some more book spoilers, sorry)

Sakarnen was in the books but it was a male sa'angreal. I looked it up and yep, it was the sa'angreal being used by Demandred in the Last Battle and the description on the wiki totally reads like the Holy Grail onna stick, or I'm cutting me own throat. Speaking of which, how bout that Moiraine many futures in the rings scene???

The scene

with Moraine's many futures? Not to mention the slow mo hover/spinning

Was sick as hell, and really stylish and starting to show their directorial/cinematic chops more and more, which is awesome.

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Positronics

I love this season so much. As a North American, I find it delightful to hear all those different accents on screen. I don't care if it makes sense in the show universe or not, I just like the diversity of it. The costumes are also amazing (special shoutout to Egwene).

Book stuff (all books)

• My wife has not read the books, but is enjoying the show. She found the Aiel history through the glass columns very sad and I had to restrain myself from blurting out that there's an even sadder version of this in a future book. Really hope the show makes it to the end.
• What's up with Elaida's tremors? But also, I like her portrayal so far.
• Forsaken Coffee Hour! YESS! Those were some of my favourite scenes in the books and we got one!
• No mention of Asmodean during the Forsaken meeting, but clearly there was a statue of a Forsaken holding a musical instrument in season 1, so he has to show up at some point, right? But they were also setting up Logain to teach Rand in season 2, so I'm not so sure anymore...
• Choedan Kal -> Callandor + Sakarnen (now for women only): sure, why not. Makes sense to me to simplify things. Makes me wonder how they'll do Veins of Gold now, though, since I thought Rand choosing to destroy the access key was important to his epiphany. But that's just a small detail in the grand scheme of things.
• I like that they're setting up Darth Rand, or at least, that's how I interpret certain scenes and dialogue (there was one between Lanfear and Moiraine, I think?).
• I was surprised to see Lord Luc show up in the Two Rivers. I was convinced they would cut that out somehow.
• What's the writers plan with Mat? The horn seems to have given him his battle memories, but then Min had a vision of the twisted doorway, so he will still visit Sindhol and the Finn? Very curious to see how this plays out.

ahava

I absolutely cannot get the portrayal of

Sevanna out of my head.

I love every single thing about her costuming and hair and choices.
I am so very excited to see more of her.

Positronics

ahava wrote: »

I absolutely cannot get the portrayal of

Sevanna out of my head.

I love every single thing about her costuming and hair and choices.
I am so very excited to see more of her.

I almost gasped. Perfect, no notes.

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burbo

Interesting! I don't want to read it yet, because I don't want the Ep 5 spoilers. But was there really that much queerness in the books? I read them as a pre-teen and teen for the most part, and I never really noticed it, but that could definitely have just been me being dense. Still, I thought that a lot of the queerness was part of the adaptation, or at least foregrounding of something that was inferred, maybe even implied, but generally note explicit. Was I wrong about that?

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Taramoor

Yeah, they talk about women being "pillow friends" quite a bit in some of the later books, but that's about as far as it goes. And the Moiraine/Siuan relationship is also far more of an implied thing.

It's another of those things that probably seemed pretty progressive when the books were being written and now feels quaint and just make adaptation even more of a minefield than it always is.

Snicketysnick

Ep5

maybe it's just me but that ship was waaaay too small to be a Raker, I've always pictured them as being much more like a Tea Clipper compared to the Seanchan Galleons/Heavy Junks, ie very long, narrow and with huge clouds of sail

Selner

Episode 5..

Seeing Hopper should not make me cry... /sniffle...

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Rhesus Positive

One thing that's really getting jarring is the lack of structure surrounding ad breaks

It's all the more noticeable now I'm watching older shows on Prime that have a little bit of silence just as a scene transitions, where an ad break would have originally been on network television

In WoT scenes flow into one another, which means that there's a more obvious pause

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ahava

why does everything have to be so fucking DARK.

I mean yes, I know it's at night but still UGH.


Episode 5

Yes! Windfinders! Hellll yessss! And tying that to how Nynaeve used to Listen to the Wind? Yes. yes. Yes Love.

Bodewhin channelling was also really high on my 'hell yeah' moment.

The Waste is literally everything I want it to be and Cold Rocks Hold is perfection.

Not sure how I feel about Moiraine playing with the Uber Angreal but whatever. i can get over that.

The casting for Elaida continues to be perfection. Just absolutely the most chefs kiss. Gods i love her so much.

We got introduced to Alviarin officially named, and we see Jaret Byar officially named as well.

Funny lines in the episode go to Nynaeve "is that an option?" (Mat saying the sailmistress wants them below deck so that nynaeve doesn't jump overboard)
And to Maksim, "Alanna, you turned the bond back on 5 arrows ago".

Egwene was always going to figure out about Lanfear that way, the telegraphing was so very obvious. But still satisfying.

Not as much of a high point as Episode 4, but still moving pieces along the board. And pulling more warp threads together for the loom.

mittens

The color grading in that episode was real bad and filming at night should not be so dark. Throw up some blue lights and actually utilize HDR to make bright torch lights feel bright. Just some blurry dark shapes in the night is lazy and bad story telling and it gave me severe game of thrones flashbacks. The actual content though was fine to great. Nothing would compare to the previous episode so a plot mover probably was needed at this point.

Positronics

Elaida, episode 5:

Did she kill that Black sister? How can she justify to herself using the One Power in that way? For a second, I thought the show was telling us Elaida is Black Ajah, but given Siuan’s reaction, I guess not. Very confused here.

mittens

Positronics wrote: »

Elaida, episode 5:

Did she kill that Black sister? How can she justify to herself using the One Power in that way? For a second, I thought the show was telling us Elaida is Black Ajah, but given Siuan’s reaction, I guess not. Very confused here.

To answer your question, yes. Reason in spoilers:

The three oaths prohibit using the power to kill, except to darkfriends or shadowspawn, or in defense of themselves, their warder or another Aes Sedai. So the sister being a darkfriend means Elaida did not need to break any oath here.

ahava

Positronics wrote: »

Elaida, episode 5:

Did she kill that Black sister? How can she justify to herself using the One Power in that way? For a second, I thought the show was telling us Elaida is Black Ajah, but given Siuan’s reaction, I guess not. Very confused here.

Answer

Yes. she killed her. Aes Sedai can, and are required to, use the One Power to kill darkfriends and shadowspawn. Black ajah are darkfriends and will be full on executed one way or the other. What she did, she did fully within the limits of the law.

Positronics

Oh wow, I’ve read the series a few times, but somehow totally forgot the Darkfriends exception. Thanks!

ahava

yup! It's the 3rd Oath

1. To speak no word that is not true
2. To make no weapon with which one man may kill another
3. Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai

I was doing some research on them after last week's episode with

Latra Sedai and trying to figure out how she was so old but also still alive. The 2nd oath was actually the initial Oath sworn right after the Breaking. The other 2 oaths were added sometime before the Trolloc Wars, approx 500 years before, Before Rhuidean was completed. My theory is that the is why she was able to be so old but not Ageless. In that she took the first Oath, which cut her lifetime short, but my theory is that it's the combination of all 3 that give the Ageless look. so by the time Latra would have taken the other 2, she had already grown old.

Zilla360

My favourite character has to be Moraine.
Not because she's likeable, but I can sympathise with someone bearing the weight of that burden of knowledge, so many turns of the wheel. It's incredible she is still lucid and functional after dying a thousand deaths, instead of a gibbering broken wreck. 😭💔😢

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Positronics

Episode 5 question:

I missed something: where did Verin learn about the Black Ajah hearts, when she was relaying the info to Siuan and Leane and devising the plan to figure out if Elaida is Black? Did we see that in a previous episode?

All books spoilers:

Of course, I know how Verin knows of all that in the books, but how is the show framing it in this episode, that's what I missed.

Tower coup as a season cliffhanger?

Is Moiraine biting it at the end of this season, or does she get one more? The way Lan's story is going (and how the show is trying to give him some sort of arc every season), I feel like he's due to being released from his bond sooner rather than later, but no twisted archway ter'angreal sighted yet (besides in Min's vision). So how would the Moiraine/Lanfear fight play out in a way that Moiraine can come back later?

The show really pushing the "Could Lanfear be good, or at least, not completely evil?" thing, which amuses me given that she's a total sociopath in the books. But I also vaguely remember fan discussions on this question at around this point in the story when the books were published, so that tracks.

This show better get renewed...

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Positronics

Gotcha, I can go with that.